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[Zippedpinhead]

AB said that he spent the night in the rooms he visited, but if that's the case he lied about N1 (because he stayed at franconp's room and survived).

Source:

Ty4on, I think it is likely that they targeted francorp specifically as opposed to francorp's room (which would have immediately killed all people in their room).

Personally, I think this is part of the reason why we haven't had a death the last few nights, despair is targeting rooms hoping to take out multiple people as opposed to killing an individual.

 

[Royal_Flush]

Okay, I want to understand the reasoning behind these AB accusations. Do we still agree that CzarTim killed franconp? If yes, why was a despair aligned AB seen by Pau N1? If no, how do you think CzarTim was seen by Pau (Note that his role PM didn't state any other night actions)?

 

[*Splinter]

(Note that his role PM didn't state any other night actions)

This part confirms (I think) that Tim killed Fran

 

[Sawneeks]

Okay, I want to understand the reasoning behind these AB accusations. Do we still agree that CzarTim killed franconp? If yes, why was a despair aligned AB seen by Pau N1? If no, how do you think CzarTim was seen by Pau (Note that his role PM didn't state any other night actions)?

It's because that AB is only cleared by CzarTim and since CzarTim is Despair it's hard to take what he said as truth. I believe it's fairly unanimous that Czar killed Fran because it explains how he moved without a Night focused PR. AB could still be Despair, just a sleepwalking Despair who happened to be in Fran's room at Night. I don't necessarily believe that but I think that's where this line of thinking is going.

 

[AbsolutBro]

AbsoluteBro
Was in franconp's room the night he was killed and should automatically be suspicious but since claiming to be a sleepwalker everyone seems to trust him. Should be down as Hope but my gut tells me to be cautious. Not based on any evidence but just from my readings of previous season's games.

Man, you're a hidden bad guy ONE TIME and you're branded for life. ;_;

AB v Pau v Ty4son (68.2 percent)

AB's whole, wretched plan on Day 3 was to take out Pau. And if Pau was hope, then take him and Czar. If they're all despair (along with CzarTim)...what is the point here? #yolo? maybe it's yolo, but I don't think so.This despair combo is unlikely in my eyes.

I am struggling to imagine an intelligent reason two Despair players would come up with an act ala Czar and my interaction D3. I mean, it is probably the most suspicious thing done so far, other than Czar (who we know is Despair) not putting a nail in Sawneek's coffin and earning Despair a free kill. It's been covered time and time again.

That's what i believe. Also, AB has lasted this long. If Despair saw him N1, wouldn't they take him out on one of the subsequent nights? Especially after he roleclaimed sleepwalker, i feel like that's an unpredictable role that could roam anywhere at night and potentially bump into anyone. Isn't that dangerous for Despair PRs?

Why would Despair bother to kill me when Czar's gambit worked out so well? They can just let the town vote me out at this point. It's also not like bumping into someone in the halls has worked out well for me so far. All I did was manage to get a Hope PR to out them self. Go me.

Ty4on, I think it is likely that they targeted francorp specifically as opposed to francorp's room (which would have immediately killed all people in their room).

I guess I read the part about facilities in Czar's role post to be only the 4 non-dorm locations. That is, you can kill a particular player in their dorm room, or you can try to get everyone in the gym/cafeteria/pool/workshop.

Okay, I want to understand the reasoning behind these AB accusations. Do we still agree that CzarTim killed franconp? If yes, why was a despair aligned AB seen by Pau N1? If no, how do you think CzarTim was seen by Pau (Note that his role PM didn't state any other night actions)?

I agree with you here. There is literally no way that Czar did not kill Franconp. I have to question the motivations behind anyone still questioning that. His role post shows he had no night powers OTHER THAN the kill command.

Starting to get really suspicious of a couple people, based on things like this...

 

[*Splinter]

I hope that ellipses is because you have a mega post coming, and not just because you were feeling super passive aggressive

 

[Swamped]

I agree with you here. There is literally no way that Czar did not kill Franconp. I have to question the motivations behind anyone still questioning that. His role post shows he had no night powers OTHER THAN the kill command.

Starting to get really suspicious of a couple people, based on things like this...

People are still questioning this? Wasn't it obvious from CzarTim's role PM that he did the kill?

 

[Kalor]

I find the AB accusations weird as why would CzarTim "clear" AB if he was Despair. Surely he would of thought that if he was revealed then we would immediately look at AbsolutBro since he was "cleared".

To me it feels more like CzarTim trying to implicate a Hope member or he felt that he had a good reason to investigate AbsolutBro (Prior History).

 

[AbsolutBro]

I hope that ellipses is because you have a mega post coming, and not just because you were feeling super passive aggressive

neither, just a trailing thought that didn't really finish in my brain. I do have a post I'll piece together later this evening. I should still be working right now

<_<
>_>

 

[Sawneeks]

I find the AB accusations weird as why would CzarTim "clear" AB if he was Despair. Surely he would of thought that if he was revealed then we would immediately look at AbsolutBro since he was "cleared".

To me it feels more like CzarTim trying to implicate a Hope member or he felt that he had a good reason to investigate AbsolutBro (Prior History).

I still believe it was a way for CzarTim to gain more trust as the Hope one-shot cop. Once AB came forward and corroborated Czar's story it made him look like a Hope player trying to help out.

 

[CornBurrito]

That's what i believe. Also, AB has lasted this long. If Despair saw him N1, wouldn't they take him out on one of the subsequent nights? Especially after he roleclaimed sleepwalker, i feel like that's an unpredictable role that could roam anywhere at night and potentially bump into anyone. Isn't that dangerous for Despair PRs?

I also agree with you that Makai is most certainly Hope.

However the sleepwalker story does seem the check out with what limited info we have. Like, we know Czar almost certainly has to have been franconp's killer. And I believe other people confirmed seeing AB on N1. So if AB is Despair it has to be some weird roaming power that doesn't kill.

Except I already think there's a Despair with a weird non-kill roaming power, and that said person saw Crab on either N1 (Sawneeks) or N2 (mystery).

 

[Sawneeks]

However the sleepwalker story does seem the check out with what limited info we have. Like, we know Czar almost certainly has to have been franconp's killer. And I believe other people confirmed seeing AB on N1. So if AB is Despair it has to be some weird roaming power that doesn't kill.

Except I already think there's a Despair with a weird non-kill roaming power, and that said person saw Crab on either N1 (Sawneeks) or N2 (mystery).

If we put any stock in the 'evil lover' theory then Pau could also easily fit the bill of 'non-kill roaming power'.

 

[CornBurrito]

If we put any stock in the 'evil lover' theory then Pau could also easily fit the bill of 'non-kill roaming power'.

I kind of... don't put stock in that theory.

Meanwhile if anything Ty4on has to be the evil lover.

 

[*Splinter]

Meanwhile if anything Ty4on has to be the evil lover.

Why?

 

[CornBurrito]

Why?

I mean if Ty is Hope aligned why would he not sell out Pau? Even if he dies, it is worth losing 1 Hope for 1 Despair. He claimed to have 100% guaranteed knowledge of Pau's alignment. He strongly implied Pau was Hope. Why would a Hope player lie for a Despair player?

Now Pau hasn't claimed the same. It is possible she actually doesn't know Typhon's alignment the way he knows hers. And that could be the case if Typhon was actually evil.

 

[*Splinter]

Lol, I'm pretty sure that with an Evil Lover, the good lover has no idea their partner is evil, would be pretty stupid otherwise. And he's "100%" because he's either exaggerating, lying or hadn't considered the possibility of an Evil Lover.

I'm not saying I think that's the case, my only point when discussing that stuff was that maybe we've given certain people a free pass to easily. Would they be suspicious without the role claim? More re-reading needed

 

[CornBurrito]

Lol, I'm pretty sure that with an Evil Lover, the good lover has no idea their partner is evil

That's kind of my whole point?

I believe Ty when he says he knows Pau's role. If he were Hope aligned lover, why lie about that?

Pau on the other hand has made no such claims.

The evidence would point to Ty being the Evil Lover. Not Pau.

 

[Swamped]

I still believe it was a way for CzarTim to gain more trust as the Hope one-shot cop. Once AB came forward and corroborated Czar's story it made him look like a Hope player trying to help out.

...i suppose it's possible that Czar was setting up AB for an easy lunch once he flipped. If so I'll feel really dumb for falling for such an obvious ploy.

Man, I'm so convinced that there has to be another Despair PR member that Czar was protecting that took an action N1. Only Sawneeks and AB fit that category, according to the knowledge that's out there.

 

[Sawneeks]

I'm not saying I think that's the case, my only point when discussing that stuff was that maybe we've given certain people a free pass to easily. Would they be suspicious without the role claim? More re-reading needed

That could be said for nearly every role claim so far (mine included) and we are getting to a point in the game where we will need to Lynch a person who claims a role as they might be lying.

Sawneeks: was suspicious before role claim. Claims to be in fight club and this saves her from being lynched Day 3.
Makai: was pinned as suspicious before claim. He claims a role and this saves him from being lynched early on.
AbsolutBro: suspicious but never actively targeted before claim. CzarTim confirms him as Hope.
Pau: same as AB. Was considered slightly suspicious but nobody really went after her. Was outed by AB and Czar and was thus forced to claim.
Ty4on: largely under the radar up until claim. He claims in order to help clear his buddy Pau.

One of the above is more than likely Despair in hiding only because it's unlikely that all of us (plus redacted and kingkitty-? -) are Hope PRs as that seems way too powerful for Hope.

 

[Swamped]

That's kind of my whole point?

I believe Ty when he says he knows Pau's role. If he were Hope aligned lover, why lie about that?

Pau on the other hand has made no such claims.

The evidence would point to Ty being the Evil Lover. Not Pau.

Actually, that's the reason why i asked Pau if she knew with certainty Ty's alignment.

 

[Swamped]

...i suppose it's possible that Czar was setting up AB for an easy lunch once he flipped. If so I'll feel really dumb for falling for such an obvious ploy.

Man, I'm so convinced that there has to be another Despair PR member that Czar was protecting that took an action N1. Only Sawneeks and AB fit that category, according to the knowledge that's out there.

I mean, Pau does too, i suppose...

 

[Pau]

A few things:

1) We never claimed lovers. Of course, no one's going to believe us that we're Masons instead because of course we would say that.

2) We know each other's alignment, but that doesn't help y'all who think we're liars. I'm pretty sure that the reason for the no kill nights is Despair failing to kill one of us. (Or role blocking in which case, whoever is the role blocker, you're awesome.) I think given the set up, making one of us Despair is too unbalanced. If it would make everyone feel better, I don't mind dying in the next few days. I just wanted to buy Hope a few free days with Despair doing a wild goose chase.

3) I'm not going to say what rooms or direction I go in at night. Too much information for Despair if there's a pattern, not enough for Hope. If you're asking, I consider you suspicious.

4) I'd rather go after non-rulebreakers. We simply do not have enough information about them and making the discussion about us means they can fly under the radar.

 

[CornBurrito]

If we're going after a non-rule breaker, my votes are for currently for either kingkitty or Tl21xx.

 

[*Splinter]

If we're going after a non-rule breaker, my votes are for currently for either kingkitty or Tl21xx.

TI seems obvious, but why Kitty?

 

[CornBurrito]

TI seems obvious, but why Kitty?

Tl21xx would be my primary since he's dead weight even if Hope. But I lean super quiet Despair on him.
As for kingkitty:


Rest, Sawneeks, CornBurrito, Pau, *Splinter, swamped, Kalor, Zippedpinhead, Makai, AbsolutBro, Terrabyte20xx, kingkitty, goshujinsama, Ty4on, TL21xx, Royal_Flush, Christina Mackenzie.

There are 17 players left. Assuming this game started with 6 Despair players, there are 5 Despair left. Of these 17 players left, 6 of them are PR if we take their claims at face value.

1. Makai
2. Sawneeks. Claims Hope.
3. Pau - potentially Hope Lover? Though neither she nor Typhon confirmed. They just let us believe that. Which is why I'm actually starting to have doubts.
4. Typhon - potentially Hope Lover.
5. AbsolutBro - Claims Hope sleepwalker
6. Other Lucky student

I think kingkitty may have soft role claimed, but I'm not counting him as a claimed PR for now.

Since we want to go with a non-rule breaker/non-PR claim that leaves 11 potential people:

Rest, Kalor, Cornburrito, *Splinter, swamped, zipped, terrabyte, tl21xx, royal flush, mackenzie, goshujinsama, kingkitty. (note there are 12 people here, 1 of them must be the secret other lucky student).

I don't hold strong suspicion for Kalor, or Rest. I am inclined to trust swamped and goshujinsama for now. I also don't believe the new arrivals are Despair. But I'll admit that's shortsighted.

That leaves me with: tl21xx, zipped, *Splinter, terrabyte, kingkitty.

And of those, zipped is kind of who I suspect the least given his voting history.

So actually... I guess I'd be fine voting for Tl21xx or terrabyte as well.

 

[Ty4on]

Night 1: CzarTim, SalvaPot, and Crab

Night 3: *redacted*

You saw those three and no one else Night 1, right?

I know you didn't ask me specifically Corn, but my lists are:

N1 (Franconp): Pau, Czar
N2 (Terra): Pau, SalvaPot, <other>
N3 (Zipp): Pau
N4 (Goshu): Pau, <other>

To be clear, <other> from N2 and N4 are the same person. It's possible that this person is the same as -redacted-, but I have no real way of knowing.

Could you confirm what direction you went in N4? (past my room or past CzarTim's room)
Both are equidistant and Launch said he would tell the person what route they took.

 

[AbsolutBro]

You saw those three and no one else Night 1, right?

Could you confirm what direction you went in N4? (past my room or past CzarTim's room)
Both are equidistant and Launch said he would tell the person what route they took.

I asked Launch and he said I went "clockwise, then counterclockwise back to my room".

So I guess past your room instead of Czar's.

 

[Ty4on]

I asked Launch and he said I went "clockwise, then counterclockwise back to my room".

So I guess past your room instead of Czar's.

So if I'm not mistaken you should have seen everyone?

 

[Kalor]

There are 17 players left. Assuming this game started with 6 Despair players, there are 5 Despair left. Of these 17 players left, 6 of them are PR if we take their claims at face value.

While it's just an assumption I think 6 is too high a number for Despair. I would place my bet on it being 3 or 4 Despair at the start of the game. I have no real basis for that except that 6 seems like it would be weighed really heavily in Despairs favor as well as some stuff that mentioning it doesn't really contribute to the discussion to the game at hand.

I've been thinking about TL21xx a lot since they hammered the vote yesterday. Look at these two posts.

Alright, time to vote. This phase is going nowhere so let's just get this over and done with.

Vote: CzarTim

I wish it were a crazy conspiracy reason, but its actually just plain stupidity. I didn't notice that my vote was the hammer until I posted. My reason for voting when I did was to get a vote in for the day; it was the last chance I had to get one in. If I had paid more attention to where we were at vote-wise, I would have abstained to let the day play out.

They talk about how they didn't realize their vote was the hammer when they posted but the text in the original post sounds like they want the day to end and is intending to end it with their vote. You could interpret it as them wanting to contribute to the vote to end the day but I read it as being them wanting to end the day with that vote.

Even if I'm just reading into this too much, I don't think you can say a phase is going nowhere when you only post three (four as of their vote post) times in a day phase.

Vote: TL21xx

 

[Sawneeks]

You saw those three and no one else Night 1, right?.

Yup. Those were the only names I got after my adventures on Night 1.

 

[Royal_Flush]

3) I'm not going to say what rooms or direction I go in at night. Too much information for Despair if there's a pattern, not enough for Hope. If you're asking, I consider you suspicious.

4) I'd rather go after non-rulebreakers. We simply do not have enough information about them and making the discussion about us means they can fly under the radar.

I will rest my interrogation about you night adventures for now. How long depends on future night kills. The fact that we hadn't a kill the past few days makes it difficult to pin down the murderer anyway. Also, I don't like to be threatened.

While it's just an assumption I think 6 is too high a number for Despair. I would place my bet on it being 3 or 4 Despair at the start of the game. I have no real basis for that except that 6 seems like it would be weighed really heavily in Despairs favor as well as some stuff that mentioning it doesn't really contribute to the discussion to the game at hand.

I've been thinking about TL21xx a lot since they hammered the vote yesterday. Look at these two posts.


They talk about how they didn't realize their vote was the hammer when they posted but the text in the original post sounds like they want the day to end and is intending to end it with their vote. You could interpret it as them wanting to contribute to the vote to end the day but I read it as being them wanting to end the day with that vote.

Even if I'm just reading into this too much, I don't think you can say a phase is going nowhere when you only post three (four as of their vote post) times in a day phase.

Vote: TL21xx

I'm okay with kicking one of my 80s out. I may change it later on but for now:

Vote: TL21xx

 

[AbsolutBro]

So if I'm not mistaken you should have seen everyone?

I thought that, but no. It basically means I went back the way I came. I didn't make a complete loop.

 

[CornBurrito]

While it's just an assumption I think 6 is too high a number for Despair. I would place my bet on it being 3 or 4 Despair at the start of the game. I have no real basis for that except that 6 seems like it would be weighed really heavily in Despairs favor as well as some stuff that mentioning it doesn't really contribute to the discussion to the game at hand.

I've been thinking about TL21xx a lot since they hammered the vote yesterday. Look at these two posts.





They talk about how they didn't realize their vote was the hammer when they posted but the text in the original post sounds like they want the day to end and is intending to end it with their vote. You could interpret it as them wanting to contribute to the vote to end the day but I read it as being them wanting to end the day with that vote.

Even if I'm just reading into this too much, I don't think you can say a phase is going nowhere when you only post three (four as of their vote post) times in a day phase.

Vote: TL21xx

On the other hand, they might need more number to make up for the fact that we have (allegedly) 2 Hope aligned players immune to any form of night kill. And whatever mechanic has made them misfire 2 nights in a row.

Also good catch on Tl21xx. Lol

 

[Ty4on]

Yup. Those were the only names I got after my adventures on Night 1.

That's what was so odd. I can confirm Redacted is not *Splinter and therefore had to move right N2 (pink line):

Legend:
Yellow numbers are Pau's possible destinations (you'll find that out when she is killed)
Arrows indicate ambiguity (like Salva's arrow only means he exited his room)
Lines into rooms indicate where someone went
Black is the killer
Orange chevrons are areas where Pau would have seen Salva (which she did).
Remember that Salva had two targets so his path could have been very long.

By not moving N1 Redacted doesn't seem to be a power role. However, by moving right N2 Redacted also doesn't seem to be the killer.

Possible scenarios:

1. Redacted is a power role, but didn't use their ability N1
2. Redacted is a power role, but was invisible N1
3. Redacted is the killer, but needed something on the right side to perform the kill
4. Redacted is the killer, but the true identity is *Splinter in disguise
5. Sawneeks is lying

The third option kinda makes sense as nothing would change regarding CzarTim's kill and potential attacks on me or Pau, but would be a big disadvantage to Despair.

 

[*Splinter]

CornBro can you remind me why you trust Kalor? He's one of my least trusted right now and probably the biggest thing we disagree on. I was happy with a TI21 vote until he jumped on it so readily

(Yes I know I should go back and find this myself)

 

[CornBurrito]

Wtf typhoon. Why'd you give away so much of your/Paus role...

 

[Ty4on]

Wtf typhoon. Why'd you give away so much of your/Paus role...

It was already out there for those who looked.

 

[CornBurrito]

CornBro can you remind me why you trust Kalor? He's one of my least trusted right now and probably the biggest thing we disagree on. I was happy with a TI21 vote until he jumped on it so readily

(Yes I know I should go back and find this myself)

Sure thing. I forget shit all the time and often am too lazy to search.

Kalor, ViviOggi, and Zipped hammered 3 votes in quick succession for CzarTim. These 3 votes (and Zips specifically) pushed Czar as the majority, I fully believe that Despair would have wanted to keep Czar alive. Regardless of whether or not Sawneeks is Despair or Hope. Thus I don't think Kalor or Vivi are Despair. And whoever replaced Vivi naturally.

As for Zipped, idk why he doesn't ping my hope sensor, but he doesn't ping my Despair one either. And I don't have enough reasons to think him Despair.

 

[*Splinter]

Thanks Corn, still disagree but thanks anyway

Ty4on does that all assume that Pau and Sawneeks (and Absolute?) have the same redacted?

 

[CornBurrito]

Typhoon may I ask why both you and Pau keep talking like Pau and only Pau's death is inevitable? Why aren't you equally likely to die? Why is Pau likely to die so soon relative to the other outed Pr?

 

[Ty4on]

Thanks Corn, still disagree but thanks anyway

Ty4on does that all assume that Pau and Sawneeks (and Absolute?) have the same redacted?

The problem is Pau can't see anyone AB couldn't see.

 

[*Splinter]

The problem is Pau can't see anyone AB couldn't see.

Right but I was more talking about Sawneeks

 

[Ty4on]

Right but I was more talking about Sawneeks

Sorry, forgot Sawneeks' path on N1.

I assume CzarTim went left (otherwise the AB claim would have a hole) so Sawneeks had to have walked the full length of the corridor to see CzarTim and therefore spot Redacted.

CzarTim's path might also mean he went straight towards franconp's room and didn't need a weapon.

 

[Ty4on]

Edit: And therefore [Sawneeks] would have had to spot Redacted had they exited their dorm.

 

[Pau]

Typhoon may I ask why both you and Pau keep talking like Pau and only Pau's death is inevitable? Why aren't you equally likely to die? Why is Pau likely to die so soon relative to the other outed Pr?

Because we want Despair to know how to kill us, obviously.

As someone else said (forgot who) all these questions hurt our game, help Despair, and don't gel Hope much.

I'm gonna go more into this later when I get home but for now, non-PR folk I'm looking into:

Kingkitty, Terra, TL21xx

The newer replacements are gonna be hard to read. Can't assume they're Hope but I'm okay with keeping them alive enough to see them play.

 

[Royal_Flush]

That's what was so odd. I can confirm Redacted is not *Splinter and therefore had to move right N2 (pink line):

Wrong again... My theories so far have a horrible track record, lol

Also considering your orange borders sadly this whole stunt gives us close to nothing nothing. I guess you won't get a good night kiss from Pau tonight

Sure thing. I forget shit all the time and often am too lazy to search.

Kalor, ViviOggi, and Zipped hammered 3 votes in quick succession for CzarTim. These 3 votes (and Zips specifically) pushed Czar as the majority, I fully believe that Despair would have wanted to keep Czar alive. Regardless of whether or not Sawneeks is Despair or Hope. Thus I don't think Kalor or Vivi are Despair. And whoever replaced Vivi naturally.

As for Zipped, idk why he doesn't ping my hope sensor, but he doesn't ping my Despair one either. And I don't have enough reasons to think him Despair.

That would be me.

The newer replacements are gonna be hard to read. Can't assume they're Hope but I'm okay with keeping them alive enough to see them play.

I only partially agree on the rest of your post. Of course mechanics talk helps Despair but it also could help Hope if we can narrow down a killer to a few suspects.

 

[Ty4on]

I thought that, but no. It basically means I went back the way I came. I didn't make a complete loop.

Ah, I get it. So the right side only.

 

[CornBurrito]

Because we want Despair to know how to kill us, obviously.

As someone else said (forgot who) all these questions hurt our game, help Despair, and don't gel Hope much.

I'm gonna go more into this later when I get home but for now, non-PR folk I'm looking into:

Kingkitty, Terra, TL21xx

The newer replacements are gonna be hard to read. Can't assume they're Hope but I'm okay with keeping them alive enough to see them play.

Well like, I avoided asking you about your exact movement. Meanwhile Typhon went and listed 4 precise locations you can possibly end up in.

And then ever since your reveal you, and only you (but not Typhon) have been talking as if you were already at the gallows.

Obviously don't answer if it will hurt your game. It just leaves me perplexed.

 

[*Splinter]

Pau/Ty4on do you have a way to communicate outside this thread? (I don't think any answer to this can do damage, but don't answer if you disagree with that. I'm working on a theory but there are too many unknowns at the moment).

 

[CornBurrito]

Vote: TL21xx