Tie goes to the runner.re·stric·tion
rəˈstrikSH(ən/
noun
a limiting condition or measure, especially a legal one.
"planning restrictions on commercial development"
synonyms: reduction, limitation, diminution, curtailment
"the restriction of personal freedom"
the limitation or control of someone or something, or the state of being limited or restricted.
"the restriction of local government power"
synonyms: limitation, limit, constraint, control, check, curb; More
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Meanwhile in The Netherlands; Blackface tradition returns for another celebration
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Silver Arrows
Banned
Every single fucking time this thread comes around, we have people who don't seemingly know that whatever context Zwarte Piet is in, it's racist and pretty much blackface.
And yet nonetheless, people still line up at the altar to try and prove otherwise.
And yet nonetheless, people still line up at the altar to try and prove otherwise.
Any form...
That simply is not true. Read the whole sentence.
"The Netherlands meanwhile has restricted any form of protests today"
Restricted any form of protests just isn't true. Only the unannounced ones.
A factual correct sentence would be "The Netherlands meanwhile restricted some unannounced protests today."
It still makes sense to me, they restricted how you could protest.
Silver Arrows
Banned
By the looks of this thread, never.
Considering how little of a voice Black Europeans have compared to their American counterparts, it doesn't surprise me we have people basically coming in here and saying "This clearly racist and disgusting act isn't so-and-so"
Fallout-NL
Member
Oh heavens, no.
Also designating certain areas ok to protest and most others not is some fascist bullshit if you ask me.
When black people make a holiday with stereotyped white people galivanting around using the excuse,"Well they're just white because they were white washing a fence and it got all over them!"
Keep going
And that sounds pretty reasonable to me. No matter what the subject.
We had nutty left and nutty right protests this year in Amsterdam at the same time. They were designated their own zones. That's how you manage that...
Or you know, it is just a matter of civil order considering it is the same rules for protests every time, no matter the point or the side. Go through the paperwork and 99% of the protests will be allowed.
Its for the kids though....
just let the kids have their fun
these ages to 30-70 year old kids...
they need to have their fun.
Zwarte Piet always was the nice helper for me when I was young, while I was afraid of Sinterklaas. With his nasty book judging my life as a kid and if I were good to my parents.
Pieten didn't do that, they were always great! In a sense it's positive racism, if I would have actually made the connection between Pieten and their historical counterpart.
Since I was too smart as a kid I saw through the fluke pretty early and started telling all other kids about the conspiracy.. things didn't add up, they couldn't "exist". They were magical to many. Sinterklaas could live forever with his Pieten Baas (Pete Boss).
Krampus is the original folklore story it comes from, some parents tried to scare their kids into conformity by telling them Sinterklaas would let Piet take them in his big sack back to Madrid and all that, if you were naughty that is.
The racial stereotyping I read a bit about when I was in high school, found it odd at first, but later warmed up to the fact that it does probably have roots in christian superiority over black slaves. They decided to change that as a half measure last century, most kids grow up thinking they are black from the chimney nowadays, even though most dutch people have central heating.
Part of the reason I think the Dutch are so up in arms about this is the fact that their "culture" is being invaded by American culture. They don't have an awful lot of national holidays and the anglicised "Santa Clause" directly derived from Sinterklaas is a later stolen capitalist version of the same holiday. Now they are trying to take our only sense of being Dutch away. Very tough on them.
Dutch colonies Suriname / Curacao also have Sinterklaas, they all love the holiday over there and Black Pete is seen as something great to dress yourself as. The majority of the population of these colonies have darker skin, and still they didn't see any negative racism around Black Pete. Black Pete is a great guy, it's been sang over and over in the songs around the tradition. Kids all over the Netherlands are almost conditioned that he's good and sincere.I''m not sure taking such a positive icon away is a great victory for racism in general.
Nowadays I feel there's definitely some things that could change and already have changed. The dark red lips for example is something you barely see, as are the earrings. The alternatives are rather tough as well, the problem lies in the fact that Pete has to be anonymous, while they are being played by people from your town. If you see your neighbour dressed up as Piet or Sinterklaas it will break that illusion fast.
The kneejerk reactions about the black "Santa" being banned are a bit awkward though, especially since it wasn't even the case. I feel protesting against Sinterklaas shouldn't really be done where the event is being held, but seperately in The Hague or Amsterdam to address the people of the Netherlands. By disturbing the tradition itself you only make the resentment grow, which is counterproductive to the purpose they have.
Just my two cents, hope you guys got some insight on the situation.
Pieten didn't do that, they were always great! In a sense it's positive racism, if I would have actually made the connection between Pieten and their historical counterpart.
Since I was too smart as a kid I saw through the fluke pretty early and started telling all other kids about the conspiracy.. things didn't add up, they couldn't "exist". They were magical to many. Sinterklaas could live forever with his Pieten Baas (Pete Boss).
Krampus is the original folklore story it comes from, some parents tried to scare their kids into conformity by telling them Sinterklaas would let Piet take them in his big sack back to Madrid and all that, if you were naughty that is.
The racial stereotyping I read a bit about when I was in high school, found it odd at first, but later warmed up to the fact that it does probably have roots in christian superiority over black slaves. They decided to change that as a half measure last century, most kids grow up thinking they are black from the chimney nowadays, even though most dutch people have central heating.
Part of the reason I think the Dutch are so up in arms about this is the fact that their "culture" is being invaded by American culture. They don't have an awful lot of national holidays and the anglicised "Santa Clause" directly derived from Sinterklaas is a later stolen capitalist version of the same holiday. Now they are trying to take our only sense of being Dutch away. Very tough on them.
Dutch colonies Suriname / Curacao also have Sinterklaas, they all love the holiday over there and Black Pete is seen as something great to dress yourself as. The majority of the population of these colonies have darker skin, and still they didn't see any negative racism around Black Pete. Black Pete is a great guy, it's been sang over and over in the songs around the tradition. Kids all over the Netherlands are almost conditioned that he's good and sincere.I''m not sure taking such a positive icon away is a great victory for racism in general.
Nowadays I feel there's definitely some things that could change and already have changed. The dark red lips for example is something you barely see, as are the earrings. The alternatives are rather tough as well, the problem lies in the fact that Pete has to be anonymous, while they are being played by people from your town. If you see your neighbour dressed up as Piet or Sinterklaas it will break that illusion fast.
The kneejerk reactions about the black "Santa" being banned are a bit awkward though, especially since it wasn't even the case. I feel protesting against Sinterklaas shouldn't really be done where the event is being held, but seperately in The Hague or Amsterdam to address the people of the Netherlands. By disturbing the tradition itself you only make the resentment grow, which is counterproductive to the purpose they have.
Just my two cents, hope you guys got some insight on the situation.
Silver Arrows
Banned
But remember, this isn't as bad as shooting unarmed black youth in america, so haha Yurop wins again! Completely forgetting this isn't a fucking competition.
Now imagine activists from both sides protesting in thr city center, with hundreds of kids around. I surely can't see how that could go wrong...
Count Dookkake
Member
I believe in black Sinterklaas.
Protests, as long as they are not violent aren't meant to be controlled, that is the whole point of a protest. People are protesting about something they don't agree with.
Jesus Christ on a pogo stick
The story about the man with the knives in a bag was apparently determined not to be related to the Sintkerklaas festivities in the area. Apparently was some Polish worker who was goign to some house to work on something. Just happened to go through the area the festivities took place.
Stop taking their Dutch away!
MistakenMobius
Member
He was probably at least middle eastern/Turkish looking
Part of the protesting group that got arrested was a human rights lawyer and a politician. I'm pretty sure they are well aware with how to fill out paperwork and decided on certain ethical or other terms to protest without permit.
-Plasma Reus-
Service guarantees member status
You can talk all you want, but you didn't grow up with other kids calling you zwarte piet.
If your only sense of being Dutch is to insult other people who have a different skin colour, than you can fuck right off.
Audioboxer
Member
It happens at events sometimes Beefy and it can be for health and safety. As a fellow Brit you and I both know our Government organises protests at times as well (organises as in gives corded off areas near an event taking place). Often in countries that are small and compact in land mass, and towns and cities that have narrow access, Government does need to play a part in trying to give protesters an area to be in that doesn't lead to all out chaos. As I said though even in situations where it may need some intervention protest has to always be catered for, and you can't arrest people for simply protesting. That is Government preventing your rights as a citizen.
MistakenMobius
Member
Where do u leave?
We had to get approval for a 30 students demonstration in front of the French consulate 15 years ago...
They are meant to be controlled. It is for basis stuff like road safety or making sure you don't block important buildings like a fire station. Just look at the rules for a protest in Den Haag for instance:
http://www.denhaag.nl/home/bewoners/to/Regels-bij-demonstraties-en-manifestaties.htm
I personally pass the dutch to the left and have no problems until someone bogarts it.
I never get those sentiments, I don't wear clogs, don't have tulips in my garden, don't only eat mashed potatoes... Don't celebrate Sinterklaas. One might think I'm not Dutch at all.
Somehow people are very adamant about linking racist traditions to Dutch culture. Not that surprising considering our history, but Jesu Christ, perhaps acknowledge that was wrong and get with the times already.
Why Turkish? This is constantly said, but I don't get it. He was a Greek person living in the Roman Empire. Turks wouldn't be anywhere near Anatolia for centuries.
Of course. Lawyers and politicians would never act out of bounds to get arrested and make more noise about it. Your article notes that they weren't at the right location and were trying to breach the area where the kids where.
MistakenMobius
Member
Well at least what we consider white Turk : Balkanish looking.
I'm always taken for a Greek, Lebanese, Israeli as a very white looking Turkish guy.
People in Istanbul looks very different from the countryside people.
That is what I am getting at. To me nearly every kind of protesting is restricted in some way. So that's why the word was used. Protests that aren't can cause problems with traffic etc etc (like the ones in US), but they are totally unrestricted.
Which makes them restricted.
UK were 99% of our protests are restricted as well.
Audioboxer
Member
Ah okay gotcha, I just think I and others read it wrong. I genuinely thought the Government had banned every and any protest from even happening and were arresting all attempts. That would be abhorrent and outrageous. However from further reading it still sounds like they're making a mess of the protests and arresting innocent people. That will not end well. Not to mention still having these issues with black face on the international scene is embarrassing the country.
Yes. And I completely disagree with your notion that there shouldn't be any controls on protests because of those elements.
Probably because, as I said, you people make an awful job stating what can be done and what can be considered offensive. To ban someone is way easier, I gotta admit.
I do get it, I find it funny nobody answered to my post, and having visited this place I know it gets frustrating to be a "white etero male" because the world (and most of GAF) is becoming more and more a clan war.
I think as long as protests aren't violent they are fine, but each to their own.
I was never really made to care for Sinterklaas. My mom was/is still crazy about christmas so on 5 December we would just get a chocolate letter and then the countdown to christmas began.
On that note, from the beginning I was in the change Pete camp. And honestly this year we're seeing some real change. The biggest commercial television broadcast agency banning Black Pete from both the broadcasts and commercials and some major retailers as well.
So I think the OP is really shining light on the subject from one side. You simply can't expect change to happen overnight and I would say we're on the right track. Especially with the fact that elections are coming up so the politicians are doing what they do best and chicken out.
On that note, from the beginning I was in the change Pete camp. And honestly this year we're seeing some real change. The biggest commercial television broadcast agency banning Black Pete from both the broadcasts and commercials and some major retailers as well.
So I think the OP is really shining light on the subject from one side. You simply can't expect change to happen overnight and I would say we're on the right track. Especially with the fact that elections are coming up so the politicians are doing what they do best and chicken out.
Fallout-NL
Member
Agreed. A few people peacefully want to stand by a road with a sign that expresses their opinion should be tolerated anywhere at anytime. No restrictions what so ever.
If the fear is that people will attack these protesters for doing a peaceful protest then they should be protected not arrested. I did not see one offence from protests other than not standing where the government wants them to stand. That I call silencing.
Reposting my response to someone else earlier in the thread on what makes a racist:
I get it, but this is not the message that gets delivered around, at least for what I see here.
I know it because I spend a ton of time on various internet boards, normal people and elders need to know this without being accused of being monsters and with a valid explanation, otherwise it will only change for the worse.
And again, I repeat, GAF is terrible at this.
spons
Gold Member
Unannounced protests between children, get the fuck out of here. Luckily the police removed them, albeit violently. Laws exist people, you can't just dick around without consequences.
Also sad to see there were still blackface Petes around during the arrival of Sinterklaas. Politicians lack the balls to do anything and constantly shift the blame to others. "Muh culture shift" my ass, just forbid blackface and we're done. Racism is illegal, Nazism is illegal, you can't buy Mein Kampf, but blackface is totally okay. Double standards up the ass. I'm angry about the inaction by our leaders.
Also sad to see there were still blackface Petes around during the arrival of Sinterklaas. Politicians lack the balls to do anything and constantly shift the blame to others. "Muh culture shift" my ass, just forbid blackface and we're done. Racism is illegal, Nazism is illegal, you can't buy Mein Kampf, but blackface is totally okay. Double standards up the ass. I'm angry about the inaction by our leaders.
Audioboxer
Member
lol... wannabe Trump. Yeah, cause that's a good role model to follow.
and... unsurprising - http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-europe-revolution-take-country-a7408931.html
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