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[Thunder Monkey]

=(

ok I'll leave the movie alone you guys can have your fun but I still thought Avengers was meh -_- I liked Captain America and even John Carter more than it...

I no I'm with you guys that there's barely anything coherent there. I just found a lot of fun in the camera work visual effects and childhood dreams being fulfilled. Everyone else just got a great, and pretty vapid popcorn blockbuster.

 

[arts&crafts]

I enjoyed tdkr but felt it was a step back from tdk. The plot was just less enjoyable and there were far too many supporting characters. As for the avengers it was a fun movie, but not a "better" movie. But who cares what I think, both movies will make bajillions so everyone wins.

 

[Discotheque]

let's hope not then.

shockingly i both like the batman movies and avengers but i just don't like how avengers gets downplayed as stupid and shallow. making someone laugh and care at the same time is not easy.

It made me laugh, it never made me care. Especially with that dead weight Black Widow and Hawkeye bogging shit down all the time.

Still it's great comic book film entertainment. Far better than any other Marvel offering yet (including Iron Man 1)

 

[Messypandas]

LOL
I'm sorry, (even if I get banned) but what loser! I'm sure that made your entire week (which is even sadder).

People seemingly being invested in more than when Bin Laden was killed or when 9/11 happened.
Absolutely pathetic how people are so vested in how much a film makes, like there entire life is depended on if a movie exceeds expectations by a few percentages or goes slightly below it.

whoosh

 

[The Elite]

The Avengers is what Michael Bay tries to do, and fails. It's an excellent popcorn movie.

The term "popcorn movie" gets thrown around all the time, and lately it tends to mean a lack of quality. That's Emmerich and Bay's fault, and I think that's sad.

Raiders of the Lost Ark was a popcorn movie. It's the gold standard for popcorn movies. The Avengers is closer to Raiders than it is to Bay's garbage.

I think Tobor puts it well here.

 

[arts&crafts]

Also what Happened in Colorado was terrible and WB could do something out of respect for the families, but what does delaying box office results by a few hours do to help them?

 

[Messypandas]

On bbc radio2 today they were asking whether people should boycott the movie out of respect for the dead. the influence is very real

 

[arts&crafts]

On bbc radio2 today they were asking whether people should boycott the movie out of respect for the dead. the influence is very real

I knew the news would make this batman's fault. I'm surprised they aren't blaming grand
Theft auto.

 

[The Anti-Monitor]

The Avengers is what Michael Bay tries to do, and fails. It's an excellent popcorn movie.

The term "popcorn movie" gets thrown around all the time, and lately it tends to mean a lack of quality. That's Emmerich and Bay's fault, and I think that's sad.

Raiders of the Lost Ark was a popcorn movie. It's the gold standard for popcorn movies. The Avengers is closer to Raiders than it is to Bay's garbage.

Thank you.

The Avengers is not a good, it's a great popcorn movie. Get off your high horse, you can like Nolan's Batman as much as you want, but trying to paint Avengers as a shitty movie isn't going to help your point at all.

Honestly I have a hard time picturing someone watching Avengers at the cinema, with everyone laughing, all the funny and downright awesome shit on screen, with his arms crossed and being "Everyone here is stupid and ignorant besides me".

 

[artist]

If all the reports of an ~$160m opening are accurate, the question of whether tDKR will beat Avengers at the domestic box office is pretty much settled. And given the foreign/domestic split of the previous two entries, the worldwide box office is likely to be settled also. The question then becomes whether tDKR will outdo tDK or not.

Doesn't mean one's a better film than the other, or the reverse. All the numbers mean is that more people are willing to see one film over another at a theater right now for whatever reason.

This reasoning works ... in vacuum.

 

[Salvor.Hardin]

Honestly I have a hard time picturing someone watching Avengers at the cinema, with everyone laughing, all the funny and downright awesome shit on screen, with his arms crossed and being "Everyone here is stupid and ignorant besides me".

You must be new to the internet people, ma'am

 

[Divvy]

Thank you.

The Avengers is not a good, it's a great popcorn movie. Get off your high horse, you can like Nolan's Batman as much as you want, but trying to paint Avengers as a shitty movie isn't going to help your point at all.

Honestly I have a hard time picturing someone watching Avengers at the cinema, with everyone laughing, all the funny and downright awesome shit on screen, with his arms crossed and being "Everyone here is stupid and ignorant besides me".

 

[Slayven]

I don't get where Avengers was "safe". Their stated goal from day one was to put the Marvel Universe on the big screen. And they exceeded beyond all expections.

 

[Solo]

Avengers was great. TDKR was great. Good christ people. Lets put away the rulers and stop with the dick measuring.

 

[The Elite]

Avengers was great. TDKR was great. Good christ people. Lets put away the rulers and stop with the dick measuring.

If dick measuring is involved, First Class wins by default.

 

[AdventureRacing]

I much prefer the batman movies but i have to give avengers a lot of credit. From pretty much when i first heard of it i thought there was no way it would work let alone be a good movie. I couldn't believe how good it turned out.

They are also very different movies and can be enjoyed for different reasons, no need to compare.

 

[numble]

This reasoning works ... in vacuum.

The better film doesn't have to be the one that makes more money. Is Terminator 3 a better film than Batman Begins?

 

[cutmeamango]

If dick measuring is involved, First Class wins by default.

In the tiny and awkward category. Oh, you mean the Fassy.

 

[Log4Girlz]

Avengers was a "FUCK YEAH" movie. The sequel should be titled

Avengers 2: FUCK YEAH

 

[The Elite]

In the tiny and awkward category. Oh, you mean the Fassy.

Because he has a GIGANTIC PENIS!

 

[The Anti-Monitor]

You must be new to the internet people, ma'am

To be honest this is one of the few times where I can easily see that three panel comic of the nerd who dislikes the fireworks outside.

I don't know, they're two great comic book movies and it seems like you must hate at least one. I don't see it that much regarding Dark Knight Rises (well, on the spoiler thread yeah, where Korey is some sort of reverse Good Job Bob), but from Avengers it seems that since it just wants to be fuckawesome fun, it's worse than Transformers 2.

I can only imagine these people gag whenever they hear the Indiana Jones theme.

 

[Wilbur]

If you thought Avengers was a 1.5 out of 5 then it's pretty obvious you haven't seen many movies and as such, no one should be taking into account your opinion in a serious manner.

hahahahahahahaha

 

[NekoFever]

Also what Happened in Colorado was terrible and WB could do something out of respect for the families, but what does delaying box office results by a few hours do to help them?

It would have been in bad taste when everyone was talking about how 12 people died in an attack while watching the movie to put out a press release celebrating how much money you made out of it.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

hahahahahahahaha

Yeah!

It was a 2.0 at the minimum!

It would have been in bad taste when everyone was talking about how 12 people died in an attack while watching the movie to put out a press release celebrating how much money you made out of it.

Best way to combat that is to release how much money it made the day before.

 

[Hawkian]

Because he has a GIGANTIC PENIS!

big things have small beginnings

 

[KevinCow]

I feel like Hulk would win a dick measuring competition.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

As to the TDKR vs Avengers debate, I think Avengers better accomplishes what it sets out to do, but what it sets out to do isn't very compelling for me. It's a big, dumb action film with the faintest hint of any depth at all. It doesn't explore any themes, has no character arcs, and the character motivations are wafer thin, and completely rely on the previous films.

TDKR is, for me, the better film. It's more ambitious, attemps to explore interesting themes, and the characters have arcs that are built and created within the events of the movie.

I generally agree, except that I think you downplay Avengers a bit. Banner has an arc, Widow has an arc, and the motivations rely on previous films but are pretty good.

Still, TDKR attempts whole lot more (and succeeds at most).

 

[The Elite]

big things have small beginnings

So, a grower?

 

[Wilbur]

Yeah!

It was a 2.0 at the minimum!

Not necessarily the rating, but just the fact that if you don't like Avengers you clearly haven't seen many movies. Fucking hell, possibly one of the most hilarious posts I've ever read on NeoGAF.

For what its worth, Avengers was pretty good. Does this mean I've seen a reasonable amount of movies?

 

[LosDaddie]

I had more fun in The Avengers than TDKR. The dialogue is better in The Avengers than TDKR. Ironically, the plot in The Avengers made more sense than TDKR.

All in all, I'd say The Avengers is the better movie, IMO.

Same here. Here's what I said in the DKR spoiler thread:

Overall, Rises is an awesome movie. For me it goes, TDK=TDKR>BB. And I'd put it just a notch below The Avengers in the "fun" category, but both movies are on opposite sides (Fantasy vs Realism) of the spectrum that it doesn't even matter. Comic book fans should just be happy we got 2 awesome movies this Summer..

Can't wait to own both on blu-ray, and watch repeatedly.

Honestly I have a hard time picturing someone watching Avengers at the cinema, with everyone laughing, all the funny and downright awesome shit on screen, with his arms crossed and being "Everyone here is stupid and ignorant besides me".

If there's anything GAF has taught me, then it's that some people hate fun.

 

[artist]

The better film doesn't have to be the one that makes more money. Is Terminator 3 a better film than Batman Begins?

I never brought quality into the discussion.

"All the numbers mean is that more people are willing to see one film over another at a theater right now for whatever reason."

The whatever reason is a convenient cop out ignoring the events in the past weekend.

 

[Slayven]

If there's anything GAF has taught me, then it's that some people hate fun.

AM hates Rocket Raccoon, so she is like the chief of the Non Fun Police.

 

[Hero]

Whats easy about juggling 6 primary cast members, a villain and facilitating action and story elements all within 2/2.5 hours? How come nobody has been able to do this before if its so easy?

People are just upset that Avengers handled multiple primary cast members plus the villain better than TDKR did.

Avengers isn't very expensive CGI trash?

I don't know what people are on when it comes to this movie, what are you guys seeing that makes it such a masterpiece. Without Bruce Banner and Iron Man it would be one of the most boring pointless redundant films ever made. They carry the entire film with their funny/charming charisma and banter.

Crank is a 'dumb pulp action movie' that's amazing and funny and worth turning your brain off for. I'm okay with watching movies just for fun I'm not the type that says every movie must have an oscar worthy screenplay, but Avengers was so much blaaaaaah. There is absolutely nothing we haven't seen before except Hulk scenes.

How can you even make a statement that says "Without two of the central characters on this team oriented comic book movie, it would've been boring, pointless and redundant." That's like saying "Without Han Solo and Darth Vader the Star Wars movies would be absolutely unwatchable."

Not necessarily the rating, but just the fact that if you don't like Avengers you clearly haven't seen many movies. Fucking hell, possibly one of the most hilarious posts I've ever read on NeoGAF.

For what its worth, Avengers was pretty good. Does this mean I've seen a reasonable amount of movies?

The inverse of the statement I made is not true. I am curious to hear why you think this way, considering that even if you didn't like the type of movie Avengers turned out to be, saying it's a 1.5/5 (i.e. 3 out of 10) is pretty much full of shit. Movies with that kind of score should be absolutely failing on every level, from acting, directing, music, visual effects, etc.

 

[artist]

People are just upset that Avengers handled multiple primary cast members plus the villain better than TDKR did.

I dont see anyone complaining that way, probably in your head.

 

[Escape Goat]

You could say all of this about Avatar (which I think is much better than Avengers but gets torn apart on gaf).

Spiderman 2 had a mix of action and storytelling, that's why people loved it so much and still do. Avengers had absolutely nothing of substance. There was no reason for anything to happen at all except everyone's gonna die. I can't get excited about movies like that no matter how good the visuals may be.

Managing to balance story with action is what makes or breaks these films. Dark Knight trilogy does this, Terminator 2 does this, Spiderman 1/2 does this. Avengers does not. Avengers is the Michael Bay of comic book movies whether you guys want to accept it or not. I have no problem if you enjoy Avengers that's fine but you can't claim 'it's a big dumb action movie and it does it so well that's why it's so good!' while also saying something like Avatar is the worst movie ever made. You just can't do that and still be taken serious.

How many main characters did Spider-Man, Batman or Terminator have? Yeah they're all comic book movies but its still a poor comparison. You're comparing a story revolving around one title character with a movie that has 6 characters being juggled in the air at once.

 

[sharbhund]

Here's what Whedon said in 2010 about how his approach to The Avengers would be different than The Dark Knight:

Oh yes. Oh yes. I was reading the Avengers when I was eleven, this is…it's a big deal for me. I've wanted to make a comic book movie, and I was like, "nobody can make a comic book movie", and then Spiderman came out and I was like "…ok, he can make a comic book movie!". And you know, there's been a couple of hits. But most of them I think haven't – and I also feel that we sort of, we went from the really terrible Hollywood executive's idea of what a comic book movie should be, to a very short moment when we sort of started getting it right, and then went directly to post-modern. Directly to Watchmen, Kick Ass, Dark Knight, where we're sort of, we're taking the comic book movie for granted, now we want to see what's behind it. I'm like "Whoa-whoa-whoa! Wait a minute!".

First I want to see an awesome movie about superheros that are awesome, that I really care about the whole time, I haven't seen enough of those. I don't want to deconstruct it yet! First I want to construct it. So I do feel like there's still a place for me out there. Even though you know, the genre which I had been desperate to see my whole childhood, and then my adulthood saw it happen while I was busy making TV Shows so I was like, "no I'm not…just wait! Just wait! I'll be there in a minute!". And then began to fear, is it over? But ultimately I think it's very much not.

 

[JB1981]

its very weird i had a blast with avengers but never had any desire to see it again in theaters. DRK wasn't as "enjoyable" an experience but i want to see it again badly. i will probably see it again this week.

 

[tuffy]

"All the numbers mean is that more people are willing to see one film over another at a theater right now for whatever reason."

The whatever reason is a convenient cop out ignoring the events in the past weekend.

One can speculate that the news had an effect on box office business because the opening was much lower than expectations, but how does one prove it? The expectations may have been too high. There's no way to know for sure, so we can only guess as to the reasons and the extent of their impact.

All we know for certain are the numbers the film actually did, which allows us to extrapolate how much it will do in total. But they're just numbers which we argue for their own sake in a box office thread, with little bearing on film quality or the state of the world in general.

 

[The Elite]

Here's what Whedon said in 2010 about how his approach to The Avengers would be different than The Dark Knight:

I like his approach and I think it's the right way of handling The Avengers. Now that he's given the characters their big moment to shine I wonder if his plan is to tear them down a bit if he does the sequel.

 

[Tobor]

I like his approach and I think it's the right way of handling The Avengers. Now that he's given the characters their big moment to shine I wonder if his plan is to tear them down a bit if he does the sequel.

He's said that he wants a smaller more personal sequel, but he will obviously need to balance that with action and spectacle.

Avengers was Whedon's Star Wars, hopefully he makes Avengers 2 his Empire Strikes Back.

 

[Hero]

He's said that he wants a smaller more personal sequel, but he will obviously need to balance that with action and spectacle.

Avengers was Whedon's Star Wars, hopefully he makes Avengers 2 his Empire Strikes Back.

It will be interesting to see how the Mavel movie continuity plays out with Thor 2 and Iron Man 3 next year. I'm curious how long they take place after Avengers and if they will have had any other missions since then.

 

[PhoncipleBone]

One can speculate that the news had an effect on box office business because the opening was much lower than expectations, but how does one prove it? The expectations may have been too high. There's no way to know for sure, so we can only guess as to the reasons and the extent of their impact.

All we know for certain are the numbers the film actually did, which allows us to extrapolate how much it will do in total. But they're just numbers which we argue for their own sake in a box office thread, with little bearing on film quality or the state of the world in general.

Thank you.

We can never prove just how much of an impact the horrible events in Colorado had on the grosses for Dark Knight Rises. It most certainly had some impact but we will never know just how much. As for the last page of "discussion," quality of the movies themselves is completely subjective, but looking at the raw numbers the movies are pulling in do not lie.

In the end, both movies are going to do extremely well. It just seems that the movie that did better was not what anybody expected.


And for something a little more light hearted:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=37612565&postcount=509

It seems that a junior member called TDK Rises has lost this particular bet.

 

[y2dvd]

The Colorado story definitely will affect the numbers. I know several friends who cancelled going because of it. I'm sure you had several more like this.

 

[DarkFlow]

In the tiny and awkward category. Oh, you mean the Fassy.

I think he means the bacon.

 

[rekameohs]

Arguing over stuff like this just feels very petty now.

And debating over the films' quality is pointless, since both have very different tones, and both pull them off very well.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Arguing over stuff like this just feels very petty now.

And debating over the films' quality is pointless, since both have very different tones, and both pull them off very well.

True. I would, though, like to point out that it took practically the entire Marvel universe and 3D to outgross Batman on his own. Batman still reigns supreme!

 

[Messofanego]

Here's what Whedon said in 2010 about how his approach to The Avengers would be different than The Dark Knight:

Haha straight to post-modern, I can see his point although I personally prefer that material since I never got into big action superhero comics. I started with Batman comics and then went straight to post-modern comics like those (although Wanted went past the line!) because the few superhero comics I read were the equivalent of Hollywood action movies which is what I don't like to watch often.

 

[nomis]

There is already a thread for this. And TDKR will crush Avengers. Domestically, worldwide and in quality.

Joss Whedon sucks.

TKDR is going to blow everything apart around it.

Yeah, this. Firefly wasn't even good.

Joss Whedon is a terrible director and hack writer. The Dark Knight will beat it with ease.

Joss Whedon sucks.

loooooooooooooooooooool

Not even worth a discussion.

Avengers will be a great film and makes a ridiculous amount of money but there is no contest here. TDKR is going to be the biggest grossing film in years, possibly of all time

Avengers is not going to make more than Iron Man 2.

DKR is going to dance all over Avengers.

Not even close, DKR might win by >$500 million ww. Marvel's movies aren't even on the same level as Batman.

This isn't even close TDKR has a chance of reaching 1.5 billion or more. Avengers won't get past 500 mil imo.

Avengers will probably sell a lot fewer tickets but not be totally crushed in box office due to 3D surcharges.

The Avengers will do 600/700 million tops, Dark Knight Rises will make 1.1/1.2b.

I'm not sure if it will topple TDK or not.

On one hand, Batman brand is stronger than ever now and this is being marketed as the final film in Nolan's trilogy.

On the other hand, Joker was iconic. A lot moreso than Bane is (and will be) And believe it or not but Heath Ledger's death did give it the added publicity and seats.

Either way it's DEFINITELY taking down Avengers.

The difference between Nolan and Whedon is that Nolan is talented, it's pretty simple.

TDKR will stomp the Avengers in WW BO.

Super hero movies gross this summer will be like this

TDKR
Spiderman

Avengers. Avengers will be lucky if it makes 600 million.

This will not even be close.
Not in NA and not worldwide.
Batman will single-handedly wreck the Avengers.

Someone on Earth thinks Avengers will do better than Rises?

I love waking up to stupid threads like this. Nothing like a good laugh in the morning.

TDKR will hammer The Avengers.

Yeah Avengers will be pretty big but I don't see it hitting a billion. Domestic is where these superhero flicks make big bank and Dark Shadows (a Tim Burton joint with Johnny Depp) is coming out a week later too.

 

[XiaNaphryz]

10 month bump?

 

[Toa TAK]

I'm surprised that there are so many people who didn't like Joss Whedon on GAF.

SHOULD'VE HAD FAITH.