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Capcom Claims: 360 GPU = Nvidia 8800 series SHOCKER

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Dorfdad

Dorfdad

Gold Member
According to a rough translation, Capcom has exposed some info on the 360 video card basically stating it is on par with the Nvidia 8800 series or What it means is the 360 graphics card is a s good as the best PC graphics card out at the moment.

Ishida: “It tried measuring really, it is, but as for 2.5D motion Buller of present condition generally with about 5ms, as for apex prolongation processing among those with about 1ms the shank. As for the apex efficiency of Xbox 360 GPU, it is good game, for up-to-date PC by comparison with the NVIDIA GeForce 8800 series of GPU with the response that the shank”
Click to expand...

http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/...70131/3dlp.htm

B3D's resident tech translator "one":

According to Capcom, current 2.5D motion blur takes about 5ms and vertex stretching takes 1ms in it. They feel the vertex performance of the Xbox 360 GPU can match that of NVIDIA GeForce 8800.
Click to expand...
http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/showpo...&postcount=116
 
Dorfdad

Dorfdad

Gold Member
they also state there

They are very proud of the techniques they been able to employ to get a tremendous amount of good looking particle effects on screen without causing slowdown. They said that utilizing the Xbox 360 EDRAM for certain screen effects gives them great speed without hurting frame rate. They said that this EDRAM, along with learning to properly use the multithreaded processors, are the two "tricks to making Xbox 360 games run well".
Click to expand...
 
K

Kafel

Banned
ohnoz8lant1.gif
 
Tieno

Tieno

Member
They say 'as for the apex efficiency...'

What's apex efficiency? Does it mean 'in general'?

I don't understand the quote though...I can't really deduce from that, that they're saying Xenos=nVidia 8800
 
O

Orlics

Member
From the translated article, I think Capcom is trying to tell us the 360's GPU is dangerous to prison inmates.


EDIT: I can't stop laughing for some reason. At the whole thread in general. "Beyond3d quotes" had me busting a gut, and I don't even know why.
 
S

szaromir

Banned
Xenos is a very good GPU for a console that launched in Nov 2005 for 299$ but it is far inferior to the GPU that launched in Nov 2006 for 499$.
 
Xdrive05

Xdrive05

Member
Well the xbox's GPU was something like a GeForce 3.5, right? Which is about right for its place in the timeline of nVidia GPUs. However, it had output graphics that were well beyond what a Geforce 4 was capable of. Even the crappy HL2 port to xbox made use of some of the HDR effects that were only available in DX9 on computers.

With the 360's closed architecture, I imagine the amount of power that can be squeezed out of it would be roughly comparable to the actual performance we get out of high end PC cards today.

EDIT: now if it actually had an 8800 in it, in a closed architecture, the potential performance would be staggering. Jiggawatts and all that. :D
 
Dorfdad

Dorfdad

Gold Member
Could the 360 GPU support DX10 and we just do not know about it yet? These 8800 cards support DX10 so maybe there is more HIDDEN performance in the 360 that is awaiting SDK and other tools to utilize it?
 
M

Mr.Potato Head

Banned
szaromir said:
Xenos is a very good GPU for a console that launched in Nov 2005 for 299$ but it is far inferior to the GPU that launched in Nov 2006 for 499$.
Click to expand...

far inferior? No i doubt that seeing how a crap load of dev's have already said the gpu in 360 is between a R520 - R600 pc videocard but they also said trying to compare it to a pc based gpu is pretty hard to do since gpu's in each platform are designed for their specific platform.. now ps3 on the other hand, greatly resembles the 7800's..it would be far to say the ps3's gpu is far inferior to the 8800.

There's nothing suprising here..the gpu in 360 is bad ass, bottom line
 
D

Doctor_No

Member
Also Ishida is referring specifically to the motion blur capabilities not to the GPU in general.

石田氏：「実際に計測してみたんですが、現状の2.5Dモーションブラーは大体5msくらいで、そのうちの頂点引き延ばし処理は1msくらいですね。Xbox 360 GPUの頂点性能は最新のPC向けGPUのNVIDIA GeForce 8800シリーズと比較してもいい勝負だという手応えですね」
Click to expand...
 
A

antiloop

Member
Are they talking about the potential?


Oblivion on PC with a 8800 card is a really nice experience. On 360 it's nice too but not equally as nice.
 
M

Mr.Potato Head

Banned
Dorfdad said:
Could the 360 GPU support DX10 and we just do not know about it yet? These 8800 cards support DX10 so maybe there is more HIDDEN performance in the 360 that is awaiting SDK and other tools to utilize it?
Click to expand...

Bro, the 360 has alot of Dx10 functions already in it.. dev's havent really utilized many of them yet. Im not saying its a dx10 chip but Microsoft put in enough Dx10 engineering in the 360 gpu to allow it to do alot of dx10 effects even if its not a 100% complient dx10 chip.

I knew the 360 gpu was gonna be more impressive then what many had initially thought before it even launched..its a cutting edge gpu.

Who ever thinks MS left their "pride and joy" xbox 360 without any dx10 functions, is just being silly.
 
S

szaromir

Banned
Mr.Potato Head said:
far inferior? No i doubt that seeing how a crap load of dev's have already said the gpu in 360 is between a R520 - R600 pc videocard but they also said trying to compare it to a pc based gpu is pretty hard to do since gpu's in each platform are designed for their specific platform.. now ps3 on the other hand, greatly resembles the 7800's..it would be far to say the ps3's gpu is far inferior to the 8800.
Click to expand...
GF8800 is very underutilized, while both RSX and Xenos are pushed quite heavily (but of course both have a lot of room for improvements)

There's nothing suprising here..the gpu in 360 is bad ass, bottom line
Click to expand...
That's right, but it's much weaker then GF880.
 
pr0cs

pr0cs

Member
Dorfdad said:
Could the 360 GPU support DX10 and we just do not know about it yet? These 8800 cards support DX10 so maybe there is more HIDDEN performance in the 360 that is awaiting SDK and other tools to utilize it?
Click to expand...


Xenos can't be completely pidgeon-holed as either a DirectX 9 or DirectX 10 compliant card. it's a mix of both, with some features that even DirectX 10 does not have, however, Xenos is missing a number of DirectX 10 features (Geometry Shader, full SM4.0 capability) though it does have some ways to simulate some of the missing features (memexport)

the thing is, look how long it took for developers to start using SM2.0, it was defined for what, 5 years before people started actually using it..do we really think that the advanced features of DX10 are all of a sudden going to start appearing in PC games? Considering the state of the PC gaming industry I would imagine that DX10 capable games will be a long time coming.
 
D

Doctor_No

Member
antiloop said:
Are they talking about the potential?


Oblivion on PC with a 8800 card is a really nice experience. On 360 it's nice too but not equally as nice.
Click to expand...


He says that, they are currently doing 5ms for 2.5 motion blur and they would like to reduce it to 1ms; he compares the "maximum potential"/"apex performance" 頂点性能 of the 360 to current PC graphics cards like the 8800 relative to 2.5 motion blur.


In the sentence following the quote:
あえて今の実装で課題を挙げるとしたら、静止画としての品質があまり高くないこと、そしてMSAAとの相性が悪いことだという。
Click to expand...

He says that currently they are not getting quality they want and that it has some incompatibilities with MSAA (referring to the 2.5 motion blur)
 
S

speculawyer

Member
Not really a believable claim . . . but a nice compliment to Microsoft from Capcom, a company that has made a lot of money on Microsoft's platform lately with Lost Planet & Dead Rising.
 
D

Diablohead

Member
szaromir said:
GF8800 is very underutilized, while both RSX and Xenos are pushed quite heavily (but of course both have a lot of room for improvements)


That's right, but it's much weaker then GF880.
Click to expand...
Capcom seem to say different.
 
Insane Metal

Insane Metal

Gold Member
Actually, both consoles have GPU´s that, if used in its full potential, can match or even overperform a 8800. It´s just because they´re closed platforms, so the bottlenecks are very few, compared to PC GPU´s. Even if the archtecture is problematic.

Anyway, the 360 GPU is known to be better than the PS3´s GPU. At least theoretically.
 
G

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
Diablohead said:
Capcom seem to say different.
Click to expand...


The problem here is the general nature of the statement made in the thread title versus the very specific nature and context of Capcom's. It's like comparing two cars, one generally much stronger than the other, but equating them overall because of one very specific characteristic that might be more closely shared between the two i.e. it is silly.

The 8800 series is in general a lot more powerful than Xenos, but in a specific technique their performance may be more similar than the general case might suggest. Capcom is restricting their statement to a specific context.
 
M

Moderation Unlimited

Banned
gofreak said:
The problem here is the general nature of the statement made in the thread title versus the very specific nature and context of Capcom's. It's like comparing two cars, one generally much stronger than the other, but equating them overall because of one very specific characteristic that might be more closely shared between the two i.e. it is silly.

The 8800 series is in general a lot more powerful than Xenos, but in a specific technique their performance may be more similar than the general case might suggest. Capcom is restricting their statement to a specific context.
Click to expand...

Exactly...this is about their performance utilizing motion blur. Not about the performance of the 2 GPU's being comparable in general, which is not the case at all.
 
A

AzureNightmare

Banned
Dorfdad said:
According to a rough translation, Capcom has exposed some info on the 360 video card basically stating it is on par with the Nvidia 8800 series or What it means is the 360 graphics card is a s good as the best PC graphics card out at the moment.



http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/...70131/3dlp.htm

B3D's resident tech translator "one":


http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/showpo...&postcount=116
Click to expand...

I call bullshit on this statement since my ATI Radeon X850 XT can pull off the same graphical tricks and wizardry that the 360 can, at higher resolutions (read: 1920x1080p)
 
M

Moderation Unlimited

Banned
Insane Metal said:
Actually, both consoles have GPU´s that, if used in its full potential, can match or even overperform a 8800. It´s just because they´re closed platforms, so the bottlenecks are very few, compared to PC GPU´s. Even if the archtecture is problematic.

Anyway, the 360 GPU is known to be better than the PS3´s GPU. At least theoretically.
Click to expand...

In overall performance, this seems to be the case because of the efficiency gains of the unified architecture when performing BOTH vertex and pixel shading. The Unified Shader Architecture affords dynamic reallocation of shader ALUs to where the workload is, be it vertex or pixel shading. RSX falls behind in the area of vertex shading and transformation, but is actually better at pixel shading. That being said, the overall system architecture of the PS3 is set up significantly differently than that of the X360. A good use for the CELL's SPUs is to pre-cull the the polygonal models before they are shaded and rendered and to handle the complex math used to dictate the parameters of changing/deforming environmental terrains (the game map's topography). This, in theory, should take the strain off of the limited vertex shading pipeline (only 8 ALUs for vertex vs. 48 ALUs for pixel) and polygon transformation abilities so that the RSX can do what it's really good for: pixel shading.

But when it comes to framebuffer effects, Xenos wins hands down with it's 10 mb of edram and tiling abilities.
 
D

Doctor_No

Member
gofreak said:
The problem here is the general nature of the statement made in the thread title versus the very specific nature and context of Capcom's. It's like comparing two cars, one generally much stronger than the other, but equating them overall because of one very specific characteristic that might be more closely shared between the two i.e. it is silly.

The 8800 series is in general a lot more powerful than Xenos, but in a specific technique their performance may be more similar than the general case might suggest. Capcom is restricting their statement to a specific context.
Click to expand...


Really this whole thing is a misquote, magnified and sensationalized to make it sound like "360 GPU = Nvidia 8800 series SHOCKER". For his part, Capcom's Ishida did a really good candid interview with Watch Impress that went over the good as well as the bad.

In fact, in regards to this 2.5 motion blur in Lost Planet they currently aren't getting the image quality and performance they want. They even made slides specifically pointing out the imperfections in their game. You gotta give them credit for that.
 
J

JMichael

Banned
speculawyer said:
Capcom is just giving a nice compliment to their partner in some nice lucrative ventures (Lost Planet & Dead Rising).
Click to expand...


Nice speculation. You are probably right though since MS now owns Capcom and every other 3rd party known to man.


Time to update the list of suck:

DOA series
Shenmue
EA
Ubisoft
Activision
Carmack
Newell
Dyack
and now Capcom?

You're next Konami, fear the wrath of the gaming elite.
 
S

Slurpy

*drowns in jizz*
The xbox 360, which launched a year before the ps3 and cheaper to boot, has a gpu that is equivalent to a generational leap ahead of that in the ps3, which launched a year later and is significantly more expensive.

Yes, I believe this news.
 
J

JMichael

Banned
Slurpy said:
The xbox 360, which launched a year before the ps3 and cheaper to boot, has a gpu that is equivalent to a generational leap ahead of that in the ps3, which launched a year later and is significantly more expensive.

Yes, I believe this news.
Click to expand...

Rock on
 
H

Helznicht

Member
Oblivion on PC with a 8800 card is a really nice experience. On 360 it's nice too but not equally as nice.
Click to expand...

Memory constraints.

Both 360 & PS3 are. It doesnt matter who does what better, they are both limited by the same issue.

PC, not so much. :)
 
C

cedric69

Member
Slurpy said:
The xbox 360, which launched a year before the ps3 and cheaper to boot, has a gpu that is equivalent to a generational leap ahead of that in the ps3, which launched a year later and is significantly more expensive.

Yes, I believe this news.
Click to expand...
Please stop focusing on this "year later" BS. It launched a year later not because of improving GPU technology, it launched a year later because of Bluray problems. Nvidia's technology inside PS3 did not enjoy a year more of development when compared to ATI's inside 360.
 
D

darksquirrel

Member
Ok, then why isn't ATI currently spanking Nvidia's 8800..or at least matching it. Especially since i'm to believe they had a comparable card built in 05. Their current top of the line cards are powerful ,but the 8800 is a beast.

I think this news is fallacious, if a sony Dev had stated something similar about their card, it would be most immediately torn apart, but when the outcomes indicates "Sony am cry" then we seem to want to defend it.
 
J

JMichael

Banned
darksquirrel said:
Ok, then why isn't ATI currently spanking Nvidia's 8800..or at least matching it. Especially since i'm to believe they had a comparable card built in 05. Their current top of the line cards are powerful ,but the 8800 is a beast.
Click to expand...

http://www.hardspell.com/doc/hardware/33923_page15918.html

The term beast is thrown around this forum so often and at such undeserving products. If anything you guys are devalueing the term, so please stop it.
 
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