Support NeoGAF

[BlueTsunami]

http://www.hardspell.com/doc/hardware/33923_page15918.html

The term beast is thrown around this forum so often and at such undeserving products. If anything you guys are devalueing the term, so please stop it.

 

[mylilbuddy]

Please stop focusing on this "year later" BS. It launched a year later not because of improving GPU technology, it launched a year later because of Bluray problems. Nvidia's technology inside PS3 did not enjoy a year more of development when compared to ATI's inside 360.

ding ding ding! This is exactly right. Devs have said many times the gpu in the 360 is slightly more powerful than that of the ps3. They do say however, the potential of the cell in the ps3 will be more powerful than the cpu in the 360...time ill tell which is more important.....and those saying their video card in their pc performs better needs to remember what cpu and amount of ram they have in their system. That plays a huge part as well.

I have had mega powerful pcs, but console games have always played better to me...and smoother too. Madden, racing games, you name it. Consoles get the most out of their hardware.

 

[SeaOfMadness]

just like any other quote from a developer about a console. it can be spun both ways by both camps. so nothing to see here. move along.

 

[Apharmd Battler]

:lol

 

[JMichael]

Spoiler

That smiley is a BEAST. Look at the potential in that animation.

 

[darksquirrel]

http://www.hardspell.com/doc/hardware/33923_page15918.html

The term beast is thrown around this forum so often and at such undeserving products. If anything you guys are devalueing the term, so please stop it.

Ok then, pick me a more deserving graphics card and I'll only use that term to describe its greatness.

 

[Nostromo]

But when it comes to framebuffer effects, Xenos wins hands down with it's 10 mb of edram and tiling abilities.

Care to explain why edram should help frame buffer effects? In fact I dont think that's the case at all

 

[BlueTsunami]

ENTER SHOGMASTER

:lol

 

[Dr_Cogent]

Xenos is far superior to a 8800 in fact. Or maybe not.

:lol

Xenos is great in general. I will say that. The 360 visuals will continue to improve in games over the years. I can't wait to see what a 5th gen game looks like.

 

[JMichael]

Care to explain why edram should help frame buffer effects? In fact I dont think that's the case at all

SHOW US YOUR GAME ALREADY !!!

 

[Shogmaster]

ENTER SHOGMASTER

:lol

OMG OMG WHAT'S GOING ON? WHAT SHOULD I SAY? HEY I'M NOT WEARING ANY PANTS!!!

 

[pswii60]

Could the 360 GPU support DX10 and we just do not know about it yet? These 8800 cards support DX10 so maybe there is more HIDDEN performance in the 360 that is awaiting SDK and other tools to utilize it?

Here we go again

4th core

 

[BlueTsunami]

OMG OMG WHAT'S GOING ON? WHAT SHOULD I SAY? HEY I'M NOT WEARING ANY PANTS!!!

:lol

 

[Haunted]

OMG OMG WHAT'S GOING ON? WHAT SHOULD I SAY? HEY I'M NOT WEARING ANY PANTS!!!

:lol

 

[TheIkariWarrior]

while it is true that in a few areas (or perhaps just one) Xenos is more "powerful", most notabily the 256 GB/sec of internal EDRAM bandwidth >< to logic on EDRAM chip, which is way beyond what the G80 has, in most aspects the G80 / GeForce 8800 is vastly more powerful than Xenos.

 

[kevm3]

The 360 is currently more powerful than any other force known to man. If you didn't know, it actually uses alien technology. Microsoft is waiting to unlock its anti-gravitational technology once the time is right. The future of mankind in your home for only $299.

 

[Dr_Cogent]

while it is true that in a few areas (or perhaps just one) Xenos is more "powerful", most notabily the 256 GB/sec of internal EDRAM bandwidth >< to logic on EDRAM chip, which is way beyond what the G80 has, in most aspects the G80 / GeForce 8800 is vastly more powerful than Xenos.

He bolded it. It must be vastly more powerful in that case.

 

[Tieno]

He bolded it. It must be vastly more powerful in that case.

I'm not convinced yet, it needs more caps, preferably ALLCAPS!!!!!

 

[arne]

HAY GUYS, let's compare a video card (with ram) that costs more than the ENTIRE console we're discussing. wee.


(ps. i have no clue what any of this means, just thought i'd add something valuable to the debate.)

 

[TheIkariWarrior]

fine I will tone it down. in most areas the G80 / GF 8000 is more powerful than Xenos.

happy now

 

[Dr_Cogent]

HAY GUYS, let's compare a video card (with ram) that costs more than the ENTIRE console we're discussing. wee.


(ps. i have no clue what any of this means, just thought i'd add something valuable to the debate.)

All this does is reinforce my current status. PC gaming is just too damn expensive for me.

fine I will tone it down. in most areas the G80 / GF 8000 is more powerful than Xenos.

happy now

I'm not going to pretend I know which is more powerful than the other, but I certainly don't believe a simple statement like that at just face value. I like to read opinion pieces or tech docs that actually explain why something is more powerful. Anyone can "say" anything.

 

[Moderation Unlimited]

Care to explain why edram should help frame buffer effects? In fact I dont think that's the case at all

Well, in practice I'm not sure it does (except for all those spiffy cases of motion blur in games like PGR3, Lost Planet, and Fight Night 3). If I'm not mistaken, it also affords 10-bit HDR and FSAA 4x to work simultaneously without too drastic of a performance hit because the internal bandwidth between mother and daughter die on Xenos are incredibly high (256 gb/s or something to that extent).

I know you are the AA/HDR wizard for Heavenly Sword. But is there anyway for PS3 to muster out the equivalent of FSAA 4x plus FP16 HDR?

 

[meltpotato]

Lost Planet looks really good and even that is overshadowed by how fun it is.

 

[darksquirrel]

The 360 is currently more powerful than any other force known to man. If you didn't know, it actually uses alien technology. Microsoft is waiting to unlock its anti-gravitational technology once the time is right. The future of mankind in your home for only $299.

I chuckled a little.

 

[JMichael]

I'm not convinced yet, it needs more caps, preferably ALLCAPS!!!!!

Big juicy bold letters ASAP

 

[Dalauz]

then why my games@360 = 30 fps w/ screen tearing, capcom?

 

[JMichael]

Well, in practice I'm not sure it does (except for all those spiffy cases of motion blur in games like PGR3, Lost Planet, and Fight Night 3). If I'm not mistaken, it also affords 10-bit HDR and FSAA 4x to work simultaneously without too drastic of a performance hit because the internal bandwidth between mother and daughter die on Xenos are incredibly high (256 gb/s or something to that extent).

I know you are the AA/HDR wizard for Heavenly Sword. But is there anyway for PS3 to muster out the equivalent of FSAA 4x plus FP16 HDR?

Does Heavenly Sword even use HDR? Doesnt it use that NAO32 thing that they put together to get around the issue of AA and HDR on the PS3?

 

[JMichael]

then why my games@360 = 30 fps w/ screen tearing, capcom?

Ouch, list of suck confirmed. It was a good run Caps, but you've done did it now.

 

[Moderation Unlimited]

Does Heavenly Sword even use HDR? Doesnt it use that NAO32 thing that they put together to get around the issue of AA and HDR on the PS3?

That is a form of HDR, just not as precise as FP16. I'd assume it's comparable with FP10.

 

[TheIkariWarrior]

All this does is reinforce my current status. PC gaming is just too damn expensive for me.



I'm not going to pretend I know which is more powerful than the other, but I certainly don't believe a simple statement like that at just face value. I like to read opinion pieces or tech docs that actually explain why something is more powerful. Anyone can "say" anything.

Xbox 360 GPU:
48 shader ALUs (not full pipelines)
16 texture units
8 ROPs (pixel pipelines) - 4,000 M Pixels/sec fillrate
128-bit wide main memory bus (gets a portion of that 22.4 GB/sec) but has 32 GB/sec externally to EDRAM unit and EDRAM unit has 256 GB/sec internally
500 MHz

G80 / GF 8800

128 stream processor units
32 Texture Units
24 ROPs (pixel pipelines) , 13,800 M Pixels/sec fillrate
384-bit wide memory bus
575 MHz

 

[BlueTsunami]

Xbox 360 GPU:
48 shader ALUs (not full pipelines)
16 texture units
8 ROPs (pixel pipelines) - 4,000 M Pixels/sec fillrate
128-bit wide main memory bus (gets a portion of that 22.4 GB/sec) but has 32 GB/sec externally to EDRAM unit and EDRAM unit has 256 GB/sec internally
500 MHz

G80 / GF 8800

128 stream processor units
32 Texture Units
24 ROPs (pixel pipelines) , 13,800 M Pixels/sec fillrate
384-bit wide memory bus
575 MHz

*Puts hands over eyes*

LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA

*Peeks*

LALALALALLALALALALALLALALAL

 

[JMichael]

No edram on the 8800? Oh well... :lol


PS, 8800 chugs on crysis, so I'd wait for a real DX10 card to hit the market before I start using it as a baseline.

 

[darksquirrel]

No edram on the 8800? Oh well...


PS, 8800 chugs on crysis, so I'd wait for a real DX10 card to hit the market before I start using it as a baseline.

ehh i think that article you posted was a bit misleading, the game is quite a ways off...and the devs have to be testing it on something.

I think frame rate problems are indication that the games not done yet...drivers have yet to be optimized etc. Because to release a game that chugs on the top tier of graphics cards is probably the dumbest thing i've ever heard of.

I mean does this mean i'll have to buy an 8800 just to play it at a shitty framerate?

 

[Teknopathetic]

"PS, 8800 chugs on crysis, so I'd wait for a real DX10 card to hit the market before I start using it as a baseline."

Unfinished game performs less than stellar. Film at 11. Also, Current Vista drivers are pretty bad and Vista game performance is not hot at all. This is proven by games like UT2K4, etc. actually performing worse on Vista than on XP.

I'd say the conclusions your drawing from that article are pretty deceitful. Cute, though.


"If ATI doesnt deliver I'd be surprised."


Now, we're getting to the root of it. I thought video card fanboyism was dead.

 

[JMichael]

ehh i think that article you posted was a bit misleading, the game is quite a ways off...and the devs have to be testing it on something.

I think frame rate problems are indication that the games not done yet...drivers have yet to be optimized etc. Because to release a game that chugs on the top tier of graphics cards is probably the dumbest thing i've ever heard of.

I mean does this mean i'll have to buy an 8800 just to play it at a shitty framerate?

If ATI doesnt deliver I'd be surprised.

 

[JMichael]

I'd say the conclusions your drawing from that article are pretty deceitful. Cute, though.

My conclusions are deceitful. You heard it here folks.

 

[BlueTsunami]

"If ATI doesnt deliver I'd be surprised."


Now, we're getting to the root of it. I thought video card fanboyism was dead.

I got that vibe the moment he tried to downplay people calling 8800GTS a beast. You could tell it had a reluctant "wait and see" aura about it. Now its just confirmed. Wait for the R600!

 

[JMichael]

I got that vibe the moment he tried to downplay people calling 8800GTS a beast. You could tell it had a reluctant "wait and see" aura about it. Now its just confirmed. Wait for the R600!

ATI are your master and commander. Accept it.

Spoiler

Lighten up

I like ATI, so what? The have some sick tech.

 

[Teknopathetic]

"I got that vibe the moment he tried to downplay people calling 8800GTS a beast. You could tell it had a reluctant "wait and see" aura about it. Now its just confirmed. Wait for the R600!"

Pretty much! I thought even B3D was culled of these jokers.

 

[BlueTsunami]

I'm actually waiting to see what happens with the R600 before I buy into DX10. Hopefully they deliver...and in turn push NVIDIA to drop them prices.

 

[darksquirrel]

ATI are your master and commander. Accept it.

Spoiler

Lighten up

I like ATI, so what? The have some sick tech.

Honestly i'm an ATI guy too, i'm running an atiX850 when at the time, i could've bought a superior card from Nvidia. I sort of keep telling myself that the picture quality is superior on ATI products even if the fram rate is better on the Nvidia. I was gonna get the 8800 but, i really wanna see ATI pull through. So i play the waiting game.

 

[Vaporak]

Dear GAF,
Please stop trying to discuss computer hardware you know nothing about.
-Sincerely,
those in the know.

 

[Vic]

I SUMMON THE GAF CREW OF EXPERTS

*short sound* MISS: NOT ENOUGH MANA!!

 

[phez]

capcom!

 

[ypo]

"According to Capcom in Xbox 360 2xMSAA is +10% load and 4xMSAA is 20%+ load."

ZOmg where did the Free AA go?

 

[DenogginizerOS]

For $1250, you can buy a Wii, a PS3, and an X360 and have a hell of a lot more games to play than an 8800 powered PC with 2GB of RAM. Who cares if the X360 is as powerful as a PC graphics card? If the games look AND play great, what more do you need?

 

[Ynos Yrros]

Benchmark? Specs? Something? No? Ok, I believe.

From what I read, Xenon has similiar vertex performance to 8800, but that's probably because Xenon has unified pipelines, so it can concentrate fully on vertex shaders, while 8800 has separate pipelines with more weight put on pixel shaders.

Isn't there an article saying how 8800 would be the first GPU to outperform RSX BTW? Do we believe this one too, without any benchmarks or specs?

 

[Nostromo]

Well, in practice I'm not sure it does (except for all those spiffy cases of motion blur in games like PGR3, Lost Planet, and Fight Night 3). If I'm not mistaken, it also affords 10-bit HDR and FSAA 4x to work simultaneously without too drastic of a performance hit because the internal bandwidth between mother and daughter die on Xenos are incredibly high (256 gb/s or something to that extent).

Umh..wait a minute, you were talking about frame buffer effects: AA is not a 'frame buffer effect', and most frame buffer effects (let say motion blur, depth of field, etc..) are big consumers of texture bandwidth, not frame buffer bandwidth, therefore edram is not needed at all (as it works on Xenos, you can't store a texture on edram)

I know you are the AA/HDR wizard for Heavenly Sword. But is there anyway for PS3 to muster out the equivalent of FSAA 4x plus FP16 HDR?

Again, you were talking about frame buffer effects, not HDR rendering and anti aliasing
Though it's pretty clear from released and upcoming games that HDR+AA on PS3 is NOT that difficult to achieve, isn't it?

Marco

 

[antiloop]

No edram on the 8800? Oh well... :lol


PS, 8800 chugs on crysis, so I'd wait for a real DX10 card to hit the market before I start using it as a baseline.

It runs Oblivion about twice as fast compared to the old pure DX9 cards though.


I bet it can run Crysis just fine in 1024x768.

 

[Nostromo]

Does Heavenly Sword even use HDR? Doesnt it use that NAO32 thing that they put together to get around the issue of AA and HDR on the PS3?

HDR is not something that you 'use', it's not a frame buffer format, dunno where all this disinformation about HDR rendering comes from.
What you need to do HDR rendernig is a way to store color data without limiting your luminance range: simply put you want to be able to store very dark and very bright pixels, then you want to analyze this image rich of data about lighting and you wanna convert it to a LDR (Low Dynamic Range) image to be displayed by a conventional television..that's it!
NAO32 is just a way to store HDR pixels without using floating point render targets, hope it's clear now.
Basicly a different implementation of an abstract idea as there are usually so many ways to skin a cat :lol

Marco