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Catalan Independence Referendum(1-O) - The aftermath

J

Joey Ravn

Banned
Tiamant said:
Another day, another miserable story coming from PP.

I like how he threatens Puigdemont to end up as Companys and when the journalist asks "you mean in prison or executed?" he is all like:

giphy.gif


Edit: before the "stop watching tv3 omg!" crew comes, here you have the justification straight from PP twitter:

https://twitter.com/PPopular/status/917388378471043072

Can we start calling them fascists already?
Click to expand...

God knows I strongly oppose the People's Party. They are as crooked and morally bankrupt as they come.

But I also feel that we should be fair and not fall into overt manipulation. And I'm afraid that I'll have to play devil's advocate for this particular statement, since the original statement was a clear reference to what happened in 1934. By saying that Puigdemont could "end up like Companys 83 years ago" (and he explicitly said "83 years ago" twice), he was obviously referencing the declaration of independence by the then-president of Catalonia and his subsequent jailing by the Spanish Republic.

Whether Companys was captured and executed six years later (in 1940) by Franco's regime doesn't really have any relation to the end of the brief Catalan Republic of 1934. Trying to make this look like he was saying that Puigdemont would be executed by a firing squad... eh, I don't think that's a valid interpretation of his words.

Casado totally fumbled the response when asked by the journalist from El País, though. I feel like he was trying to avoid saying that Puigdemont would totally, surely get in jail if he declares independence tomorrow, but ended up being too vague with an answer that could have been pretty clear: "Companys was jailed by the Republic, Puigdemont is in the same situation, so he could end up in jail as well".

This, of course, is by no means an excuse for the utter political corruption that is the PP. After the crisis in Catalonia is solved, there must be a general election to replace this government rotted to the core.
 
KonradLaw

KonradLaw

Member
valkyre said:
EU is too crowded with flags and interests... I cant see how it can work without ever going the next step of true unity between all nations...
Click to expand...
Trying to push towards unity will only result in diseaster. Europe is too diverse to ever be turned into one nation. A group of sovereign nations working together and creating compromises is the best we can hope for,.
 
T

Tiamant

Member
ClosingADoor said:
Might want to translate a bit for non-Spanish speakers. I got no clue if we can call people fascists if I don't know what the video says.

But with everything surrounding this thread, ask yourself again: will splitting up from Spain solve stuff like this and do you expect all Catalonians to have pure thoughts and political ideas?
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Of course not. An independent Catalonia would have corrupt politicians and shitty people like all nations do. And still I think it would be better than today's Spain which is rotten to the core and where the only hope (PSOE) is happy being the crutch of the most corrupt political party of Europe.

And regarding Joey Ravn reply: Yes, that was what I thought too. But then the journalist ask a black and white question, did he meant imprisoned or executed, and Pablo Casado replies in the most gray way possible. Sorry, but at this point the cynic in me believes they play this game to rally their most radical fans around.
 
J

Joey Ravn

Banned
Tiamant said:
Of course not. An independent Catalonia would have corrupt politicians and shitty people like all nations do. And still I think it would be better than today's Spain which is rotten to the core and where the only hope (PSOE) is happy being the crutch of the most corrupt political party of Europe.

And regarding Joey Ravn reply: Yes, that was what I thought too. But then the journalist ask a black and white question, did he meant imprisoned or executed, and Pablo Casado replies in the most gray way possible. Sorry, but at this point the cynic in me believes they play this game to rally their most radical fans around.
Click to expand...

Sure, but it's not like the other side isn't out for blood and using these statements to push their own agenda with their own interpretations...

I think we can all agree that our politicians have not been up to the task. In neither side.
 
D

deathkiller

Member
Ferr986 said:
In less than 4 hours we will know if Puigdemont does the UDI of Catalonia.
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I don't think that at this point is there any doubt that he will do some kind of UDI what matters is exactly what measures will take to make it effective and when. Personally what I think would be best would be invoke the 155 only to take over the control of the Catalan police and leave the decision of removing Puigdemont from office or not to judges.

If they want to pull a Maduro and call for a constitutional election with the boycott of all the opposition then they should be free to do so, no country will recognize that constitution.
 
P

Psyrgery ES

Member
Tiamant said:
Of course not. An independent Catalonia would have corrupt politicians and shitty people like all nations do. And still I think it would be better than today's Spain which is rotten to the core and where the only hope (PSOE) is happy being the crutch of the most corrupt political party of Europe.

And regarding Joey Ravn reply: Yes, that was what I thought too. But then the journalist ask a black and white question, did he meant imprisoned or executed, and Pablo Casado replies in the most gray way possible. Sorry, but at this point the cynic in me believes they play this game to rally their most radical fans around.
Click to expand...

Well, I think otherwise. Being left out of the Eu with important countries like France and Germany not recognizing you I am not sure it would be a desirable position.

I am catalan and I am scared shitless, I am shaking just thinking about what might happen if the Psycho Puigdemont declares the UDI.

It does not look good at all
 
T

Tiamant

Member
deathkiller said:
I don't think that at this point is there any doubt that he will do some kind of UDI what matters is exactly what measures will take to make it effective and when. Personally what I think would be best would be invoke the 155 only to take over the control of the Catalan police and leave the decision of removing Puigdemont from office or not to judges.

If they want to pull a Maduro and call for a constitutional election with the boycott of all the opposition then they should be free to do so, no country will recognize that constitution.
Click to expand...

I'm strictly against an UDI but you know that means leave it to PP, right?
 
D

deathkiller

Member
Tiamant said:
I'm strictly against an UDI but you know that means leave it to PP, right?
Click to expand...
That leaving it to judges is the same as leaving it to the PP? It is not really the same, PP only have direct control over prosecutors. Now, they are some judges that are essentially part of the PP but even them they now that they can get in trouble if they do something blatantly illegal.

The things about judges is that they are usually slow so that gives time to calm the situation a bit. Now, what I said was what I would like not what I expect to happen, Puigdemont will try to find an equilibrium between appearing entirely reasonable while at the same time maximizing the aggressiveness of the reaction of the PP so anything can happen.
 
T

Tiamant

Member
I'm expecting huge amounts of smoke from Puigdemont, something symbolic that will amount to nothing. And then I expect Spain to lose their shit and act disproportionately.
 
P

Psyrgery ES

Member
DukeLongfellow said:
But seriously, I do wonder what Juncker could be talking about with him. I figured the EU would not want to get involved much under the pretense that this is Spain's internal matter.
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Donald Tusk has just denied that Puigdemont has talked to Junker.

Other rumours mention that CUP is not very pleased with Puigdemont's speech and that they had to postpone the address to discuss what they should do.

EDIT: CUP members of the parliament are looking quite pissed off now and one of them been heard saying "They are just making a fool of ourselves"
 
T

turmoil

Banned
Psyrgery ES said:
Donald Tusk has just denied that Puigdemont has talked to Junker.

Other rumours mention that CUP is not very pleased with what Puigdemont had to say and that they are discussing what to do.

EDIT: CUP members of the parliament are looking quite pissed off now and one of them been heard saying "They are just making a fool of ourselves"
Click to expand...

CUP is the most independentist of the alliance if am not mistaken right?

The announcement should be a smokescreen then
 
S

SporeCrawler

Member
KonradLaw said:
Trying to push towards unity will only result in diseaster. Europe is too diverse to ever be turned into one nation. A group of sovereign nations working together and creating compromises is the best we can hope for,.
Click to expand...

ever is a strong word especially since we are way past your “sovereign nations working together” europe tried that in the 19. century and it led to the first world war. the EU already is a entity with own sovereign powers and nations have integrated itself to it to some degree. the process will continue
 
P

Psyrgery ES

Member
CUP have just twitted that the sesion had to be postponed because C'S and PP are boycotting it.

PP C's are just there sitting in the parliament waiting for these guys to finish whatever the hell they are doing.
 
G

gutter_trash

Banned
Everyone has the right to self determination but not with back alley anarchist rules.

The vote was symbolic but not credible

Do it normally like Scotland did, then we could take them more seriously
 
P

Psyrgery ES

Member
Parliament about to begin, CUP members are missing.

Puigdemont looked happy upon exiting the meeting.

EDIT: CUP members just arrived.
 
kraspkibble

kraspkibble

Permabanned.
i don't think they should be declaring independance. ~40% turn out and not approved by spain. do it legally and try get a higher turn out. in scotland we were given approval and had a 84% turn out.
 
P

Psyrgery ES

Member
Self-criticism above all

OH BOY, Spain is stealing our munniez comes back!

I thought they decided to avoid using that motto in order not to make people angry but fuck that, we're victims again!

EDIT: Franco makes a comeback

EDIT2: Spains hates the catalans makes another comeback
 
cebri.one

cebri.one

Member
When they were threating the mayors who didn't want to participate in the referedum, i guess that was also peaceful.

Edit: We broke the law, we've been oppressing anyone who thought different in catalunya. Now we want to speak. LOL.
 
C

ClosingADoor

Member
So he really wants to go independent? This is going to be a mess.

He is really pretending that referendum gave a clear result? That is just madness. No international organisation had oversight, nobody checked the votes. This can not be taken seriously.
 
H

His Majesty

Banned
Good luck Catalunya. Would be fantastic to have them create a roadmap for a peaceful and succesful independence movement but I doubt it.
 
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