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Forza Motorsport has gone out to reviewers.

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Elysium44

Elysium44

Banned
transformer said:
You are arguing semantics and misinterpreting what others have said. I didn't say the trailer was replay footage. I used replays as another example of "in game" elements commonly in trailers that are indeed not game play. It doesn't mean all developers that do this are lying. They showed a cinematic element of the game in the trailer. That cinematic element is indeed "in the game".

Your articles correctly state that T10 was developing a penalty system, but no where in either article does it state it was going to be finished at release. T10 mentioned, prior to release, that it was a work in progress and would be coming later. There was always a plan to support and update Forza 7 for some time, which they did, and they talked about many updates/features/content that weren't going to make initial release. Your obfuscation by omission does not make T10 liars.
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Man the level of mental gymnastics in your post is something to behold. I think people can see that all the claims I made are backed up in full. Yours are just doubling down despite being proved wrong.
 
STARSBarry

STARSBarry

Gold Member
transformer said:
You are arguing semantics and misinterpreting what others have said. I didn't say the trailer was replay footage. I used replays as another example of "in game" elements commonly in trailers that are indeed not game play. It doesn't mean all developers that do this are lying. They showed a cinematic element of the game in the trailer. That cinematic element is indeed "in the game".

Your articles correctly state that T10 was developing a penalty system, but no where in either article does it state it was going to be finished at release. T10 mentioned, prior to release, that it was a work in progress and would be coming later. There was always a plan to support and update Forza 7 for some time, which they did, and they talked about many updates/features/content that weren't going to make initial release. Your obfuscation by omission does not make T10 liars.
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E6OsNZ8.jpg



In fairness though I don't see the issue, its obvious they built the game for the Series S and had to remove features and then scaled it up.
 
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Heisenberg007

Heisenberg007

Gold Journalism
skneogaf said:
I'll never understand the desire to have so many cars in a game, in my opinion it is way better to have a smaller amount of insanely detailed cars that are suitable for motorsports.
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Reasons: Marketing and creating hype.

"Featuring 500 cars at launch" sounds bigger than "100 cars at launch." Most gamers will only find it after buying that those 500 cars are utter crap.
 
T

transformer

Member
Elysium44 said:
Man the level of mental gymnastics in your post is something to behold. I think people can see that all the claims I made are backed up in full. Yours are just doubling down despite being proved wrong.
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I'm pretty sure Forza 7 was first shown, and the trailer that you claim had them lying about pit stops, at E3 2017. A simple search for Forza 7 E3 came up with this:


Where discussion took place regarding pit stops and the animated sequence in the trailer. If you bother to read, then you'll see the developers specifically responded at E3 that animated pit stops would NOT be in and it was a cinematic sequence in the trailer. I agree that cinematic trailers can and are misleading, and lead to false expectations, but it was clear upon the day of reveal that animated pit stops would not be in. This was directly from the developer.
 
MidGenRefresh

MidGenRefresh

*Refreshes biennially
Elysium44 said:
4XMRcy3.jpg


Funny I played the game and never saw anything like this 'in-game'.
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I had my share of fun with Forza Motorsport 7, mainly because I was playing it with my big bro but what I remember the game mostly for is awful main menu music. Such a downgrade compared to prior games.
 
Elysium44

Elysium44

Banned
MidGenRefresh said:
I had my share of fun with Forza Motorsport 7, mainly because I was playing it with my big bro but what I remember the game mostly for is awful main menu music. Such a downgrade compared to prior games.
Click to expand...

I had some fun with it too although it was my least favourite one of the generation. I am one of those probably rare people who liked 5 the most, I still have that installed now in fact. Actually it is the best looking version because 6 and 7 had to downgrade the graphics somewhat to get more cars and weather effects on screen at once. This is particularly noticeable on some tracks. So those people who compare FM2023 to FM7 should try comparing it to FM5 instead and there is less of a difference.
 
T

transformer

Member
Elysium44 said:
I had some fun with it too although it was my least favourite one of the generation. I am one of those probably rare people who liked 5 the most, I still have that installed now in fact. Actually it is the best looking version because 6 and 7 had to downgrade the graphics somewhat to get more cars and weather effects on screen at once. This is particularly noticeable on some tracks. So those people who compare FM2023 to FM7 should try comparing it to FM5 instead and there is less of a difference.
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With all the improvements that eventually came to 7, I liked that the best (in final form). But other than that I'm with you that FM 5 was pretty solid. I definitely thought the graphics were sharper and AI better as well. They both took a hit to add the extra effects as you mention. My main issue with 5 was a massive reduction in content. I get why, but of course we all want more cars and tracks. Same thing with the new game. I really hope they deliver on new content after release.
 
T

transformer

Member
LostDonkey said:
Care to share?

They've rebuilt the physics engine, lighting engine, all tracks have had a rebuild, what? Were obsessing over little bits on car models?

It's more how the game feels rather than the inconsequential placement of a fog light to me.
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They’ve built most of the game from the ground up as you are saying, but they clearly didn’t redo all the car models. And they never said they did either. But it’s a jab that Turn 10 didn’t build from the ground up because many models have gone untouched outside of updating shaders/materials and physics.
 
Senua

Senua

Member
LostDonkey said:
Care to share?

They've rebuilt the physics engine, lighting engine, all tracks have had a rebuild, what? Were obsessing over little bits on car models?

It's more how the game feels rather than the inconsequential placement of a fog light to me.
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Car models matter to car enthusiasts, it's like a Tactical FPS having wonky gun models. I actually do not use the R32 skyline in Forza games because of how abysmal it looks, even though it's one of my favourite cars of all time. They still use models that were sourced in 2004/5 before they scanned cars, they look so out of place next to the beautifully accurate scanned models of later games yet they still persist. It's an issue that T10 just seem to mostly ignore. They redid a lot of them for FM5/FH2 such as the F40 and XJ220 but still some remain and they stick out like a sore thumb, especially in the ninth generation of consoles.
 
StereoVsn

StereoVsn

Member
I really hope wheel support improves. It was very mediocre in Forza 7. Let's not even discuss Forza Horizon games.

For all my dislike of the new GT games between always online and MTX, wheel support is super solid. The driving overall feels much more realistic, not sure if that's the right word.

And I dont have like $1-2K setups or anything, just standard logitech wheel/pedals/shifter.
 
Senua

Senua

Member
StereoVsn said:
I really hope wheel support improves. It was very mediocre in Forza 7. Let's not even discuss Forza Horizon games.

For all my dislike of the new GT games between always online and MTX, wheel support is super solid. The driving overall feels much more realistic, not sure if that's the right word.

And I dont have like $1-2K setups or anything, just standard logitech wheel/pedals/shifter.
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It all comes down to feedback, that's what makes you feel confident and in control. Forza's FFB has always been dog turd, because they clearly focus on gamepad gameplay first which makes sense when 90% of users will use. The thing is though If you're going to call your game a simulator you better damn well put some effort into making the wheel gameplay top notch otherwise you'll get left way behind. Assetto Corsa, an almost decade old game has infinitely better FFB than Forza Motorsport 7 and I bet you will have better FFB than this up coming FM too.
 
DeepEnigma

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
Senua said:
Car models matter to car enthusiasts, it's like a Tactical FPS having wonky gun models. I actually do not use the R32 skyline in Forza games because of how abysmal it looks, even though it's one of my favourite cars of all time. They still use models that were sourced in 2004/5 before they scanned cars, they look so out of place next to the beautifully accurate scanned models of later games yet they still persist. It's an issue that T10 just seem to mostly ignore. They redid a lot of them for FM5/FH2 such as the F40 and XJ220 but still some remain and they stick out like a sore thumb, especially in the ninth generation of consoles.
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They still use the same 180° steering animation inside the cockpit from the first game (going by the videos they've shown so far), and not full 900° rotation. Unnatural in a racing (sim) game.
 
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Senua

Senua

Member
DeepEnigma said:
They still use the same steering animation inside the cockpit from the first game (going by the videos they've shown so far). Unnatural in a racing game.
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The first two Forza games didn't have a cockpit view but yes the driver animations are very stiff, the cockpit view as a whole isn't very immersive compared to Driveclub and Crew Motorfest. Yes those are arcade games and exaggerate movement/speed but it does a fuck ton to help immersion/sense of speed and even though T10 like to call FM a sim, as it targets Gamepad first they should go all in with making the cockpit view as visceral as possible.

In the recent gameplay video around Maple Valley the exterior view had a great sense of speed thanks to the motion blur but when switching to the cockpit view it just looked dead in comparison. No wheel movement in a straight line, tiny arm movements for turns, typical Forza issues time and time again
 
DeepEnigma

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
Senua said:
The first two Forza games didn't have a cockpit view but yes the driver animations are very stiff, the cockpit view as a whole isn't very immersive compared to Driveclub and Crew Motorfest. Yes those are arcade games and exaggerate movement/speed but it does a fuck ton to help immersion/sense of speed and even though T10 like to call FM a sim, as it targets Gamepad first they should go all in with making the cockpit view as visceral as possible.

In the recent gameplay video around Maple Valley the exterior view had a great sense of speed thanks to the motion blur but when switching to the cockpit view it just looked dead in comparison. No wheel movement in a straight line, tiny arm movements for turns, typical Forza issues time and time again
Click to expand...
Head bobble and cockpit bounce along with full motion turning of the wheel goes a very long way with immersion and sense of speed. GT7 does it very well. One thing I wish for GT7 and most of these racers, is a lower bonnet cam view so it doesn't feel like I'm in a crossover or an SUV in that cam. First person (bumper) is PDR (Performance Data Recorder) view, which is nice, but a little low as well since most PDR cams are on the bumper.
 
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StereoVsn

StereoVsn

Member
Senua said:
It all comes down to feedback, that's what makes you feel confident and in control. Forza's FFB has always been dog turd, because they clearly focus on gamepad gameplay first which makes sense when 90% of users will use. The thing is though If you're going to call your game a simulator you better damn well put some effort into making the wheel gameplay top notch otherwise you'll get left way behind. Assetto Corsa, an almost decade old game has infinitely better FFB than Forza Motorsport 7 and I bet you will have better FFB than this up coming FM too.
Click to expand...
Yep, that's a good description. GT and of course AC have much better feedback vs Forza. It's quite a bummer since playing with a wheel is a so much better experience even on a less expensive setup.
 
Turk1993

Turk1993

GAFs #1 source for car graphic comparisons
Its a shame they didn't remodel those incorrect models now they had the time. But its just a small part of the 500+ car list, 90%+ will look good. In FM7 there where roughly 26 incorrect models out of 800+ cars, which is just a small portion. But its still bad for people that liked those cars because most of them are all time classics and important cars to most people. They should just keep updating them 1 by 1 because this game gonna be the only Forza Motorsport game this gen. There is no excuse for this, they had the money and time to fix this.
 
Senua

Senua

Member
Turk1993 said:
Its a shame they didn't remodel those incorrect models now they had the time. But its just a small part of the 500+ car list, 90%+ will look good. In FM7 there where roughly 26 incorrect models out of 800+ cars, which is just a small portion. But its still bad for people that liked those cars because most of them are all time classics and important cars to most people. They should just keep updating them 1 by 1 because this game gonna be the only Forza Motorsport game this gen. There is no excuse for this, they had the money and time to fix this.
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I'm just tired of the constant lies

"Every car has been remodelled to the new power of Xbox's Series consoles"

www.gq-magazine.co.uk

How Forza Motorsport is bringing Drive To Survive's high-octane thrills to Xbox

Having outgrown its Gran Turismo rivalry, Forza Motorsport is looking to redefine racing games in glorious high fidelity for Xbox Series X and S.
www.gq-magazine.co.uk www.gq-magazine.co.uk

I can't find it but IIRC he said the same shit when Forza Motorsport 5 came out, but at least that time they actually did remodel quite a few, like the F40, F50. Enzo (there were more but that's all i remember atm). So far it seems that they've gone back and corrected...none? And they've had 5+ years
 
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Turk1993

Turk1993

GAFs #1 source for car graphic comparisons
Senua said:
I'm just tired of the constant lies

"Every car has been remodelled to the new power of Xbox's Series consoles"

www.gq-magazine.co.uk

How Forza Motorsport is bringing Drive To Survive's high-octane thrills to Xbox

Having outgrown its Gran Turismo rivalry, Forza Motorsport is looking to redefine racing games in glorious high fidelity for Xbox Series X and S.
www.gq-magazine.co.uk www.gq-magazine.co.uk

I can't find it but IIRC he said the same shit when Forza Motorsport 5 came out, but at least that time they actually did remodel quite a few, like the F40, F50. Enzo (there were more but that's all i remember atm). So far it seems that they've gone back and corrected...none? And they've had 5+ years
Click to expand...
Its weird because they released more than 400+ new cars last gen. It took them 6 years to model them in full Forzavista quality, which makes it roughly 66 cars per year. They could just add those 26 models and remodel them in less than a year. 1 thing to note is while the models didn't improve, the car materials and shaders are drastically improved. Even in those incorrect models they are really looking good and makes the car look much much better.
 
Elysium44

Elysium44

Banned
This cynical review of Forza Motorsport 6 from a veteran player shows how Turn 10 overhype their games again and again.




Also Dan Greenawalt doing a Q&A before the FM7 launch, asked specific questions about custom lobbies and penalties for rammers, typically no straight answers (because he knows the actual answers aren't what people want to hear). This is what they do, all the time. Hyping the career mode which in the end was as dull as ditchwater, just a tedious copy and paste of random events against the terrible AI. Amusingly he claims FM7 was built from the ground up as well.

 
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DeepEnigma

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
Elysium44 said:
This cynical review of Forza Motorsport 6 from a veteran player shows how Turn 10 overhype their games again and again.




Also Dan Greenawalt doing a Q&A before the FM7 launch, asked specific questions about custom lobbies and penalties for rammers, typically no straight answers (because he knows the actual answers aren't what people want to hear). This is what they do, all the time. Hyping the career mode which in the end was as dull as ditchwater, just a tedious copy and paste of random events against the terrible AI. Amusingly he claims FM7 was built from the ground up as well.

Click to expand...

They Always Deliver™ ambiguity
 
T

transformer

Member
DeepEnigma said:
When they showed the gameplay videos recently, it was not doing 360, only in these cinematic videos. We will find out soon enough and 360 is definitely an improvement over the 180 that plagued it, if so.
Click to expand...
There is a gameplay capture, I believe from Gamescom, in your quote that shows more than 180 degree steering.
 
Turk1993

Turk1993

GAFs #1 source for car graphic comparisons
Elysium44 said:
This cynical review of Forza Motorsport 6 from a veteran player shows how Turn 10 overhype their games again and again.




Also Dan Greenawalt doing a Q&A before the FM7 launch, asked specific questions about custom lobbies and penalties for rammers, typically no straight answers (because he knows the actual answers aren't what people want to hear). This is what they do, all the time. Hyping the career mode which in the end was as dull as ditchwater, just a tedious copy and paste of random events against the terrible AI. Amusingly he claims FM7 was built from the ground up as well.

Click to expand...

Chris is the opposite of Dan, he goes straight to the point without the pr bullshit. The last 3 streams he has talked about everything good or bad. He was very open even knowing that the fans wouldn't like it. Also calling some random youtuber with 300 subs a Veteran is a stretch (even tho he has some very good points in the video).
 
Elysium44

Elysium44

Banned
A veteran player, not YouTuber obviously. I am a veteran player too but that doesn't mean I'm famous.

For all that he hasn't got many subscribers, I reckon that's a funnier and more insightful video about Forza than you get from famous channels who usually just act as cheerleaders, or tone down their criticisms.
 
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Elysium44

Elysium44

Banned
Saw this on another forum. FM 2023 is missing a lot of tracks from the last game.

  • Autodromo Nazionale Monza
  • Bernese Alps
  • Brands Hatch
  • Circuit of the Americas
  • Daytona International Speedway
  • Dubai Circuit
  • Hockenheimring
  • Long Beach
  • Mount Panorama Circuit
  • Nurburgring (coming Spring 2024)
  • Prague
  • Rio de Janeiro
  • Road Atlanta
  • Sebring International Raceway
  • Sonoma Raceway
  • Test Track Airfield
  • Top Gear Test Track
  • Yas Marina Circuit

Also someone else compared the known FM2023 car list with previous games and only 16 cars so far are actually all new to FM2023, the rest are from Forzas on the OG Xbox (38), Xbox 360 (96) and Xbox One (213).
 
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