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GfK - One year after launch PS4 leads Xbone 4.4:1 in Germany

Jomjom

Banned
The PS3 wasn't obliterated by the 360, they sold almost exactly the same amount of units world wide.

The difference between this gen and last gen is that one of the consoles is being obliterated.

I was speaking of the US market.
 

Raist

Banned
I think it's amazing how BIG the console market has become in germany.

PS4 LTD in germany right now: 1.2 million
PS4 LTD in the UK right now: ??? - What could it be? It passed the 1 million mark in September. So.... 1.4 million? 1.5 million?

Will be interesting to see if the german console market can overtake the UK market.
I mean, population-wise.... Germany >>>>> UK
Would be cool!

Both the french and german markets have been expanding like clockwork.
The UK had a bit of a decrease a few years ago. Spain collapsed (used to be not that far from FR/GER). Italy is up and down, I think overall it hasn't progressed much in the last few years.
 
It would actually be very interesting to see Australia/NZ LTD figures. I honestly believe Australia is the closest market to a 50/50 split between the PS4 and Xbox One worldwide. 360 did very well here last-gen, XB1 launched only $50 AUD above the PS4 RRP when it had the Kinect, and without it combined with recent price cuts I'm certain it's been selling quite healthily for Christmas.

We're a tiny market down here so it means little to worldwide figures, but still would be interesting to see.
 
Well I have to say that, in December all my friends got at least one xbone. With all those crazy deals around here in Germany for example for 300 € you could buy one with Kinect + 3 games, or xbox one assassin's creed bundle (or sunset overdrive bundle)+ 4 games and one extra controller for 350 €. I actually bought a second one for me( the sunset overdrive bundle) and I'll give my first one to my nepnephew as a Christmas gift.

A used gift? Come on man.
 

kitch9

Banned
Sony are matching MS well in the UK. For some reason SCEA are less aggressively defending the US - maybe they don't have the stock to cover an increase I demand, or maybe they didn't have the budget allocated to allow them to compete for the whole of November?

800000 consoles making 60 dollar a piece is better than 1.2 million that lose 60 dollar a piece.

If I were Sony right now I'd sit and count the money whilst watching my competitor desperately flip flop around trying to buy sales.

They have been in MS's shoes once or twice.
 

Steiner84

All 26 hours. Multiple times.
Too bad Germany doesn't have a Black Friday Microsoft can give away the console with 4 free games.

they are doing it with 3 games regularly.
bought an x1 a month ago with AC BF, AC U and CoD AW for the regular 399 pricetag.
i think this was a regular bundle.
 

FeiRR

Banned
Good job. You sure showed PS4 what was up in Germany :)

http://www.amazon.de/gp/bestsellers/2014-12/videogames/ref=zg_bs_tab_t_bsar

PS4: #18, #57, #88, #92
XB1: #47
WiiU: #69
I don't think the Germans go shopping to Amazon.de as often as you would expect. But maybe it's changed and some German GAFfer would correct me?


But don't you remember? Penello forwarded that information to the relevant parties to prevent confusion in the future!!!

The message might have got lost together with "enable that hidden second GPU".
 

DBT85

Member
Well, I am surprised.
I never expected this before the consoles were revealed. I thought MS would trample down PS4.
Then this strange generation started.

Lots of Gaffers thought that would happen, there's a thread with several thousand posts of "lol Sony" before we heard about either console.

Baffles me how a board with generally intelligent people would dismiss one so easily but there we go.
 

Bl@de

Member
I don't think the Germans go shopping to Amazon.de as often as you would expect. But maybe it's changed and some German GAFfer would correct me?

I don't have statistics but it's quite high. My family buys 90% from Amazon (regarding Electronics, Music, ...). Including 2 Prime members.

Games = Digital only. For years.
 

le-seb

Member
http://mobile.lemonde.fr/jeux-video...-succes-tres-bien-engage_4531586_1616924.html

Playstation France boss mentioned that PS4 sales in France are almost 1 million copies in 1st year [Nov29 >Nov29],
Yes, Playstation France boss did say that.

and that there is a chance of surpassing all time record of 1.2 million copies by Dec31 that was set by the Wii.
No, Playstation France boss didn't say that.
The journalist did.

Just to be clear.
 

cHaOs667

Member
I don't have statistics but it's quite high. My family buys 90% from Amazon (regarding Electronics, Music, ...). Including 2 Prime members.
Don't underestimate stationary merchants like MSH (Saturn, MediaMarkt). They are still quite big - despite the success of Amazon.de.
 

stryke

Member
It would actually be very interesting to see Australia/NZ LTD figures. I honestly believe Australia is the closest market to a 50/50 split between the PS4 and Xbox One worldwide. 360 did very well here last-gen, XB1 launched only $50 AUD above the PS4 RRP when it had the Kinect, and without it combined with recent price cuts I'm certain it's been selling quite healthily for Christmas.

We're a tiny market down here so it means little to worldwide figures, but still would be interesting to see.

Ps4 has been outselling x1 2:1 for the majority of the year.
 

Gustav

Banned
Don't underestimate stationary merchants like MSH (Saturn, MediaMarkt). They are still quite big - despite the success of Amazon.de.

That does not imply that people that buy at big box retailers buy different things, though. For all we know the breakdown of PS4, Xbox One and Wii U should be very similar.
 

GVA1987

Member
Ps4 has been outselling x1 2:1 for the majority of the year.

Source?

I have quite a few mates working at various EB Games including two store managers and they've said it has been a pretty much 50/50 split apart from where Sony wasn't able to supply enough early in the year

I know Sony have stated they are the best selling console here but have never seen any exact figures.
 

stryke

Member
Source?

I have quite a few mates working at various EB Games including two store managers and they've said it has been a pretty much 50/50 split apart from where Sony wasn't able to supply enough early in the year

I know Sony have stated they are the best selling console here but have never seen any exact figures.

Copy and pasting urls is a bitch on my phone. Just Google terms "npd australia ps4 2:1". The news came out at about August. I think we even had a thread on it as well.
 

GVA1987

Member
Copy and pasting urls is a bitch on my phone. Just Google terms "npd australia ps4 2:1". The news came out at about August. I think we even had a thread on it as well.

Ok no worries. Missed heaps of the last few months with work being crazy busy. I'll check it out when I get the time.
 

dolemite

Member
MSFT needs to start changing their XBox image in continental Europe. It's not like the EU is boycotting their products, since gaming is most popular in Germany on a windows machine. Right now the product favors English speaking nations and this needs to change.
 
For every 60€ game MS and Sony get 10€.

MS doesn't care if they throw their Xbone at 299€ on you as long as you buy games for it and pay for gold.

True, but I wonder how many people who are willing to buy an XBO for 299€ already own a PS4. GAFers who own both consoles tend to be using their XBOs for exclusives only and maybe the odd multiplat that performs better or has some worthwhile "extras" on the XBO, while their PS4 is for both exclusives and multiplats (or PC for multiplats). Not sure if that's a trend among non GAFers who own both consoles, but if it is, then that's bad for MS.
 

radeonxt

Member
It is the first time I saw strong efforts in spain (Sonyland) regarding to xbox one promotion, and not considering amazon for one of the best places for it because we have the AC pack for 399€ (standard price).

We have had several retailers with such good promotions:

I was considering to buy ps4 in the following months, but I went to FNAC (Important french retailer in spain) and bought:

XB1 + AC pack (3 games) + GTA V + COD AW for 380€. 5 games!

We have in mediamarkt - XB1 AC pack + other game (FH2, GTAV, MC collection, etc...) for 399€

This weekend we could find in fnac XB1 AC pack for 340€.

I couldn't beleive it, FNAC packs were litterally blown away.

But yes, MS needs to improve marketing in spain, we do not boycott XBOX products but Playstation has a very strong branding here.
 
It is the first time I saw strong efforts in spain (Sonyland) regarding to xbox one promotion, and not considering amazon for one of the best places for it because we have the AC pack for 399€ (standard price).

We have had several retailers with such good promotions:

I was considering to buy ps4 in the following months, but I went to FNAC (Important french retailer in spain) and bought:

XB1 + AC pack (3 games) + GTA V + COD AW for 380€. 5 games!

We have in mediamarkt - XB1 AC pack + other game (FH2, GTAV, MC collection, etc...) for 399€

This weekend we could find in fnac XB1 AC pack for 340€.

I couldn't beleive it, FNAC packs were litterally blown away.

But yes, MS needs to improve marketing in spain, we do not boycott XBOX products but Playstation has a very strong branding here.

they can give the consola con un paquete de magdalenas and still ps4 will sold a ton more,xbox one is done on spain
 
MSFT needs to start changing their XBox image in continental Europe. It's not like the EU is boycotting their products, since gaming is most popular in Germany on a windows machine. Right now the product favors English speaking nations and this needs to change.
Funny how this myth is still going.
 

Donos

Member
Funny how this myth is still going.

It's rather well more alive (in retail sales) than in other regions/countries.

You don't see a train simulator or farming simulator that often in NPD or UK Top40...

Would still love an indepth steam survey about PC usage in different countries (# of games bought, hours spent per player etc.) and how germany compares to te others.
 
No. In any whatsoever business, you never ever equate your market position based on daily, weekly, or monthly sales. You never claim to be #1 in the market if you are not actually #1 in the market. In fact, in some businesses, you can get in very big trouble for claiming you're the market leader because your shareholders can be misled by such claims. Sales are measured from product introduction to product discontinuation, so common sense should tell you that market share calculations must be based on cumulative/yearly sales.

I have no idea what market(s) Greenberg is referring to, so I'd love to know which territories the Xbox One is actually #1. Notice how he doesn't specify what #1 means; he could mean #1 in market share, #1 in accessory sales, #1 in amount of zombies killed on next-gen consoles etc. He could mean #1 in anything, and his lack of specificity is what ensures he never enters into legal hot waters with investors.

Greenberg's tweet brings up one of the big elephants in the room. Microsoft has a well documented history of being deliberately mendacious when they report Xbox sales performance, e.g. Xbox is the fastest selling console, Xbox*, US+UK= Market Leader, etc. Part of the reason why there's a general dislike of Microsoft 'personalities' is because they are almost never straight-forward when it comes to facts; there's always a twist and a turn and an asterisk involved. I can't remember which gaming host said it - it might have been on a podcast or a video - but when Microsoft were claiming they finally unraveled the mystery of the E.T. dump site, the person said something along the lines of "And this is why nobody likes you". They are habitual liars, and frankly, their inability to connect with core audiences is very much a result of them being dishonest in their business.

It's no surprise that the PS4 is #1 in Germany. The Xbox One sounded like an EU lawmaker's wet dream prior to the policy reversals. It was never going to do well with the data-mining camera and attendance check-ins, so even though the console has changed* in vision, the folks in Europe aren't interested in supporting the platform.

*= For now.

Don't get me wrong. I do not want to defend him, I want to understand the logic in his twisted mind...
 

Xando

Member
I don't think the Germans go shopping to Amazon.de as often as you would expect. But maybe it's changed and some German GAFfer would correct me?

While retailers are still pretty big lots of people (especially the younger ones ) buy on amazon.
Especially PS4s seem to sell very good via amazon, i remember a few weeks ago the GTA V bundle sold out and price climbed to 480€ and it still sold out. Atleast with my friends most people buy bigger stuff (games/hardware) online and not in local retailers.
 
It's rather well more alive (in retail sales) than in other regions/countries.

You don't see a train simulator or farming simulator that often in NPD or UK Top40...

Would still love an indepth steam survey about PC usage in different countries (# of games bought, hours spent per player etc.) and how germany compares to te others.
He was talking about "gaming is most popular on.... ". And the answer is "PlayStation" and not a "Windows machine".
 
Really impressive numbers for Germany. Wasn't it primarily a pc market last gen?

No, when people say that they mean PC is relatively bigger than in other countries, (just like people claiming FR to be a Nintendo country). I don't think pc has ever been bigger than consoles in Germany.
 

Haunted

Member
They've gone and done it... they've gone and woke the sleeping dragon now.

Sony should have left well enough alone and now they're going to get it. It's not enough that they're bleeding Euros from practically every crevice of their existence. Now they go and throw immense moneyhats at a niche market like Germany just to piss off the market. Why pay to keep a market out of the hands of as many gamers as possible? Why not put that money into the US or the UK instead?

I know, I know... this is the way the business goes as they say. Well, they forced Microsoft's hands with their early sales lead and Microsoft only responded with an GfK whooping (source: musings thread) by way of incredible deals and value. Microsoft will undoubtedly follow this announcement up with some real megatons of their own.

Landwirtschafts-Simulator remake collection. A true Skiregion-Simulator sequel. Spezialtransport-Simulator 2016 beta in the hands of gamers. The next Seilbahn-Simulator, Bau-Simulator and Rettungswagen-Simulator as exclusives. Those are the kinds of blockbuster response announcements I expect, and then some. You hit Microsoft with a jab, you best be ready for a flurry of uppercuts coming at you in response.
 

EGM1966

Member
MSFT needs to start changing their XBox image in continental Europe. It's not like the EU is boycotting their products, since gaming is most popular in Germany on a windows machine. Right now the product favors English speaking nations and this needs to change.
Agreed but it's going to be a challenge for MS I think. Last gen they had US and UK pretty much sewn up from early on and were able to focus more effort on Europe (and Japan) which resulted in decent second place for 360 behind PS3 numbers (leaving Wii out just talking relative PS3/360).

This gen they have a huge battle on their hands in US and UK and this seems to be impacting their ability to focus on other territories. With PS4 leaving XB1 behind week by week across Europe the clock is ticking though and if MS take too long to focus on Europe it'll be simply too late to change much.

All in all Europe is going to be tricky for MS for foreseeable future I think.
 

RowdyReverb

Member
Does anybody know if/how the attach rate differs between US and European countries? Is it the same for first and third party games?
 

oti

Banned
It has been an abysmal year for Xbox over here in Germany. For months on end Xbox just wasn't part of the conversation. PS4 all the way. Things get better for MS, some retailers sell it for as low as 300€, but it's still pretty bad.
 

cHaOs667

Member
That does not imply that people that buy at big box retailers buy different things, though. For all we know the breakdown of PS4, Xbox One and Wii U should be very similar.
That people would buy at stationary retailers other things that people buy online is nothing i have stated.

I've only tried to explain that the focus only on Amazon.de does not cover the majority of the market.
 

Jonnax

Member
MSFT needs to start changing their XBox image in continental Europe. It's not like the EU is boycotting their products, since gaming is most popular in Germany on a windows machine. Right now the product favors English speaking nations and this needs to change.

PC is a windows machine and the most popular gaming machine in Germany so he is right.

Funny how some still try to downplay PC Gaming in it's strongest market.

Latest German stats(2013) show 2.66b €
untitledtee3c.png

Could you all explain this chart to me?
 

xHunter

Member
Well I have to say that, in December all my friends got at least one xbone. With all those crazy deals around here in Germany for example for 300 € you could buy one with Kinect + 3 games, or xbox one assassin's creed bundle (or sunset overdrive bundle)+ 4 games and one extra controller for 350 €. I actually bought a second one for me( the sunset overdrive bundle) and I'll give my first one to my nepnephew as a Christmas gift.

Is that really true?
I searched for some Deals, but never saw these bundles you mentioned. Not even close. Was that some regional deal?
 

Percy

Banned
It would actually be very interesting to see Australia/NZ LTD figures. I honestly believe Australia is the closest market to a 50/50 split between the PS4 and Xbox One worldwide. 360 did very well here last-gen, XB1 launched only $50 AUD above the PS4 RRP when it had the Kinect, and without it combined with recent price cuts I'm certain it's been selling quite healthily for Christmas.

We're a tiny market down here so it means little to worldwide figures, but still would be interesting to see.

You gotta do what?
 
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