Halo |OT12| Last One Out, Get the Lights

Reach had an advantage since it was a lot more customizable then 4 is. Halo1 game-types were doable on it and it played amazing with no bloom. The problem was that a lot of the maps in Reach sucked ass. So people say Reach sucks. It didn't suck, the maps did. If you played Headlong in Reach in the anniversary playlist, man, it was so much fun. It amazing how good maps completely change that game.

People consistently confuse bad game-play with bad maps.
Yea but bad maps are part of bad gameplay.

Like when you are in lobby thats all part of Halo but its not the actual gameplay (yet) the gameplay begins the moment you control your character in a match. If you have to run around bad maps, thats going to make the gameplay bad. So yea while you can make a distinction between the two, they both effect each other.

Reach needed better maps. Halo 4 probably needs better maps, especially more small maps.

The fact we have less customization and features that previous Halos had means this game should be ten times better and more focused, yet the stuff they did focus on is still all messed up...

The didn't really add anything either, they stole a bunch of CoD elements and changed FF to Spec Ops. Thats not GoTY material at all.
 
Reach had an advantage since it was a lot more customizable then 4 is. Halo1 game-types were doable on it and it played amazing with no bloom. The problem was that a lot of the maps in Reach sucked ass. So people say Reach sucks. It didn't suck, the maps did. If you played Headlong in Reach in the anniversary playlist, man, it was so much fun. Its amazing how good maps completely change that game.

People consistently confuse bad game-play with bad maps.
I too felt like the anniversary with TU settings scratch my itch to play "classic Halo". Sure it was about 90% accurate so to speak but more than close enough for me to thoroughly enjoy it.
 
Yea but bad maps are part of bad gameplay.

Like when you are in lobby thats all part of Halo but its not the actual gameplay (yet) the gameplay begins the moment you control your character in a match. If you have to run around bad maps, thats going to make the gameplay bad. So yea while you can make a distinction between the two, they both effect each other.

Reach needed better maps. Halo 4 probably needs better maps, especially more small maps.

The fact we have less customization and features that previous Halos had means this game should be ten times better and more focused, yet the stuff they did focus on is still all messed up...

The didn't really add anything either, they stole a bunch of CoD elements and changed FF to Spec Ops. Thats not GoTY material at all.
The game might not be as fun cause of that, but that doesn't make the actual game-play bad. If you were to flip flop every Halo2 map and put them in Reach and vice versa, you'd have no complaints about Reach's gameplay. Reach was weak on maps, not gameplay. Playing on Headlong in it felt better than it ever did in Halo2. Then like 343 always seem to do now, they removed that big team playlist and the map was never to be played on again.
 
The game might not be as fun cause of that, but that doesn't make the actual game-play bad. If you were to flip flop every Halo2 map and put them in Reach and vice versa, you'd have no complaints about Reach's gameplay. Reach was weak on maps, not gameplay. Playing on Headlong in it felt better than it ever did in Halo2. Then like 343 always seem to do now, they removed that playlist and the map was never to be played on again.
You transplant 2's maps into Reach and the movement, bloom (or DMR being a sniper rifle without it), and grenade BS. Even things like overshield needing to have a hacked together solution to have a visual indicator for someone picking it up. Nah, Reach was just bad.
 

Tashi

343i Lead Esports Producer
Gaming side thread about UI. Go see what legitimately terrible UI's are. Halo 4's UI doesn't touch previous Halo games but it isn't the abomination so many people make it out to be. AKA we've been spoiled by Bungie.
 
IGN Source Video Results Link

GRAPHICS
Total Votes: 91,699
Halo 4: 77,882
BOII: 13,817

CAMPAIGN
Total Votes: 66,749
Halo 4: 50,249
BOII: 16,496

MULTIPLAYER
Total Votes: 77,547
Halo 4: 50,223
BOII: 22,324


To me this speaks volumes about how successful Halo 4 has been in the overall marketplace. Apart from the developers access to their game statistics I doubt we can get such a volume of votes for comparison anywhere else.
 
You transplant 2's maps into Reach and the movement, bloom (or DMR being a sniper rifle without it), and grenade BS. Even things like overshield needing to have a hacked together solution to have a visual indicator for someone picking it up. Nah, Reach was just bad.
Every Halo game had issues, i remember 2 with all the lock-on weapons, noob combo, smg start thats completely useless unless u pick up a gun in the other hand too and some people in here talk about it as if it was the second coming of Christ.
 
Gaming side thread about UI. Go see what legitimately terrible UI's are. Halo 4's UI doesn't touch previous Halo games but it isn't the abomination so many people make it out to be. AKA we've been spoiled by Bungie.
Just because there is worse, doesn't make it not bad.
IGN Source Video Results Link

GRAPHICS
Total Votes: 91,699
Halo 4: 77,882
BOII: 13,817

CAMPAIGN
Total Votes: 66,749
Halo 4: 50,249
BOII: 16,496

MULTIPLAYER
Total Votes: 77,547
Halo 4: 50,223
BOII: 22,324


To me this speaks volumes about how successful Halo 4 has been in the overall marketplace.
Or is it because BO2 is worse? I've seen tons of people complain that the netcode is worse than MW3(which is atrocious). Again, just because something is worse, doesn't mean that it is suddenly good.
 
Every Halo game had issues, i remember 2 with all the lock-on weapons, noob combo, smg start thats completely useless unless u pick up a gun in the other hand too and some people in here talk about it as if it was the second coming of Christ.
There are issues which each game have had and then there are several fundamental aspects of the game being flawed as is the case in Reach.
 
And yet you hop online and about twice as many are playing BO2.
From Major Nelson, yeah second place is a terrible thing (seriously)...I await some new figures from him based on Unique Users (UU), which I think will arrive this week. I'm curious to see where Halo 4 is in the latest data.

LIVE Activity for week of November 19

Xbox 360 Top LIVE Titles (based on UU’s)

1. Call of Duty: Black Ops II
2. Halo 4
3. Minecraft: Xbox 360 Edition
4. Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3
5. EA Sports FIFA Soccer 13
6. Call of Duty: Black Ops
7. Assassin’s Creed III
8. NBA 2K13
9. Modern Warfare 2
10. Madden NFL 13
11. Battlefield 3
12. Borderlands 2
13. Skyrim
14. GTA IV
15. Halo: Reach
16. Gears of War 3
17. FIFA 12
18. Forza Motorsport 4
19. Hitman: Absolution
20. Forza Horizon
 
Yeah, HaloGAF was definitely wrong about that one. It's pretty fun.
Team Regicide is good for a few games. Then you get stuck being the King for a few matches in a row and you realize that it's affecting your play style. You start to move less, slay less, and generally just try not to die so you DON'T have to be King anymore.

When you're just one of the other stooges out playing Team Regicide (which is really just Infinity Slayer minus the roll the dice personal ordnance muckery) it's really fun.

From Major Nelson, yeah second place is a terrible thing (seriously)...I await some new figures from him based on Unique Users (UU), which I think will arrive this week. I'm curious to see where Halo 4 is in the latest data.
I would not be surprised to see Halo 4 drop to 3rd.
 
From Major Nelson, yeah second place is a terrible thing (seriously)...I await some new figures from him based on Unique Users (UU), which I think will arrive this week. I'm curious to see where Halo 4 is in the latest data.

LIVE Activity for week of November 19

Xbox 360 Top LIVE Titles (based on UU’s)

1. Call of Duty: Black Ops II
2. Halo 4
3. Minecraft: Xbox 360 Edition
4. Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3
5. EA Sports FIFA Soccer 13
6. Call of Duty: Black Ops
7. Assassin’s Creed III
8. NBA 2K13
9. Modern Warfare 2
10. Madden NFL 13
11. Battlefield 3
12. Borderlands 2
13. Skyrim
14. GTA IV
15. Halo: Reach
16. Gears of War 3
17. FIFA 12
18. Forza Motorsport 4
19. Hitman: Absolution
20. Forza Horizon
Well, if its the better campaign, MP and story, why are there 400k more people playing BO2? I mean, something isnt working here.
 
There are issues which each game have had and then there are several fundamental aspects of the game being flawed as is the case in Reach.
I remember modding, aimbots, host cheating, host booting, standby, super bounces, ranks not worth a damn and all that...Funny how nostalgia skews one view of a game. I thoroughly enjoyed Halo 2 at the time but for an Aussie the host advantages were a total joke in that game, ignoring the cheating/modding aspect
 
Why does it matter what position Halo 4 is in? Anything in the top 5, even 10 is admirable. We all knew it wasn't going to be number 1. Who cares?

Gaming side thread about UI. Go see what legitimately terrible UI's are. Halo 4's UI doesn't touch previous Halo games but it isn't the abomination so many people make it out to be. AKA we've been spoiled by Bungie.
I don't feel its fair to call it an abomination at all. Some here are being too harsh. At the same time though, its far from ideal especially when they had some pretty clear examples from 4 previous Halo games to go off of. Oh well.

I'm confused, disappointed, and sometimes frustrated, but I still have fun when I play the game. My biggest hopes are that they change some things to make Halo 4 play a little better, but what I really hope is that they are really paying attention for Halo 5 and I hope that it becomes a really great game with the entire package we've come to expect.
 
"and now we have a mech in play, and here is where things get really interesting."

- Shatter IGN developer walkthrough video.


Pretty shocked that the mech gets so much love, it slows the game down a ton and is pretty damn boring.
 
Well, if its the better campaign, MP and story, why are there 400k more people playing BO2? I mean, something isnt working here.
Show me directly comparable statistics. The first/second week of BOII coming out you expect more gamers to go and play that game. It just came out, makes sense. The reverse would be true to an extent as well e.g. BOII released first.

I think after XMAS will be a good time to review the populations of the games, now if we could just get apples to apples statistics. To me Major Nelson seems to be the only one able to get that directly.
 
"and now we have a mech in play, and here is where things get really interesting."

- Shatter IGN developer walkthrough video.


Pretty shocked that the mech gets so much love, it slows the game down a ton and is pretty damn boring.
Theyre so easy to take down with a PP that i really dont get why people are so annoyed by them.
 
The game might not be as fun cause of that, but that doesn't make the actual game-play bad. If you were to flip flop every Halo2 map and put them in Reach and vice versa, you'd have no complaints about Reach's gameplay. Reach was weak on maps, not gameplay. Playing on Headlong in it felt better than it ever did in Halo2. Then like 343 always seem to do now, they removed that big team playlist and the map was never to be played on again.
It does, gameplay is a huge spectrum that is effected by a ton of things, including the maps. You can fix that part of the gameplay though by fixing/making new maps. That is the gameplay, all the environment you can go and see and act in, thats all part of the gameplay.

That part of the spectrum can easily be fixed.
 
Theyre so easy to take down with a PP that i really dont get why people are so annoyed by them.
If anyone has half a braincell they will camp with the thing.

How are you going to PP someone who has that thing sitting back in defence? What are you going to do if you hit it with a PP?

Mantis just makes for very hang back defensive games.


Did I also just hear that guy call Shatter 'beautiful'?
 
Show me directly comparable statistics. The first/second week of BOII coming out you expect more gamers to go their and play that game. It just came out, makes sense.

The reverse would be true to an extent as well e.g. BOII released first.

I think after XMAS will be a good time to review the populations of the games, no if we could only get apples to apples statistics. To me Major Nelson seems to be the only one able to get that directly.
If you log in both games, it tells you how many people are online. And from what i noticed, at peak times for me, halo4 is always around 200-250k while BO2 is close to 500-600k. Sure its the first moth but still, its a pretty big gap for a game IGNs voters put second to Halo.
 

enzo_gt

tagged by Blackace
Gaming side thread about UI. Go see what legitimately terrible UI's are. Halo 4's UI doesn't touch previous Halo games but it isn't the abomination so many people make it out to be. AKA we've been spoiled by Bungie.
Yeah but I think the lagginess of it at times certainly makes it hard to call it "good." I've had it lock up on me twice today for 5+ seconds at a time.

Otherwise, I think it's pretty good still. Stuff one button away is now two buttons, big whoop.
 
I remember modding, aimbots, host cheating, host booting, standby, super bounces, ranks not worth a damn and all that...Funny how nostalgia skews one view of a game. I thoroughly enjoyed Halo 2 at the time but for an Aussie the host advantages were a total joke in that game, ignoring the cheating/modding aspect
Oh, Halo 2 had lots going against it that weren't there by design, which is why it would be hard to go back to in its form just due to glitching and such. Which is why if anything it's even more unfortunate that they seem adverse to going back to that era of Halo design so that it can finally exist in a way that's not hindered by modding of the time and physics glitches.

Ah don't gimme that bunk, it's as bad as resorting to salt/slurp as a catch all response.
 
If anyone has half a braincell they will camp with the thing.

How are you going to PP someone who has that thing sitting back in defence? What are you going to do if you hit it with a PP?

Mantis just makes for very hang back defensive games.


Did I also just hear that guy call Shatter 'beautiful'?
You can say that about tanks too, which ironically camp all the time on most maps.
 
Gaming side thread about UI. Go see what legitimately terrible UI's are. Halo 4's UI doesn't touch previous Halo games but it isn't the abomination so many people make it out to be. AKA we've been spoiled by Bungie.


The problem with Halo 4 is that they dropped the ball big time with the UI. I know they had to take ownership of the game and franchise and all that, but re-working every component of the game, for the sake of doing it, is a terrible idea if you can't at least match the quality of the components that are being replaced.

I still can't believe Frankie was defending the terrible UI before release. It's an eye sore. Either the UI designer was unleashed and given reign to go a binge whilst everyone else turned a blind eye or there was some kind of collective blindness going.

Microsoft has legendary user and player feedback testing labs. The Halo 4 UI should have never, ever have made it passed those safeguards.
 
I remember modding, aimbots, host cheating, host booting, standby, super bounces, ranks not worth a damn and all that...Funny how nostalgia skews one view of a game. I thoroughly enjoyed Halo 2 at the time but for an Aussie the host advantages were a total joke in that game, ignoring the cheating/modding aspect
Better than bloom.
 


The problem with Halo 4 is that they dropped the ball big time with the UI. I know they had to take ownership of the game and franchise and all that, but re-working every component of the game, for the sake of doing it, is a terrible idea if you can't at least match the quality of the components that are being replaced.

I still can't believe Frankie was defending the terrible UI before release. It's an eye sore. Either the UI designer was unleashed and given reign to go a binge whilst everyone else turned a blind eye or there was some kind of collective blindness going.

Microsoft has legendary user and player feedback testing labs. The Halo 4 UI should have never, ever have made it passed those safeguards.
Calling the Halo 4 UI an eyesore is absurd. Its not ideal or a good example of great usability, but I don't think its ugly by any means. Too much extremism around here.
 
If anyone has half a braincell they will camp with the thing.

How are you going to PP someone who has that thing sitting back in defence? What are you going to do if you hit it with a PP?

Mantis just makes for very hang back defensive games.


Did I also just hear that guy call Shatter 'beautiful'?
Using camo stealth is quite easy to board a Mantis. The trouble is teamwork to protect the Mantis so you need to make sure you have camo, good cover to cover movement and a grenade for when you board it.

It's literally never been an issue for me when playing Ragnarok. I've been on teams from JIP where the enemy team has both Mantises. It's still not that hard to take them both down and generally only dying 2-4 times in the process.

That's without team communication or team work from randoms, not that big of a deal.
 
Using camo stealth is quite easy to board a Mantis. The trouble is teamwork to protect the Mantis so you need to make sure you have camo, good cover to cover movement and a grenade for when you board it.

It's literally never been an issue for me when playing Ragnarok. I've been on teams from JIP where the enemy team has both Mantises. It's still not that hard to take them both down and generally only dying 2-4 times in the process.

That's without team communication or team work from randoms, not that big of a deal.
In my eyes thats hardly fun gameplay. Vehicle sandbox is just dull and the Mantis is a big part of that. Crouching up to it in camo is as bad as watching a team defend with the thing.

Halo 1 had a great vehicle sandbox, combat was fast/ fluid/ dynamic. Now it boils down to very dull slow campy strategys
 
Completely agreed and I cant name a good map which has ever had a tank on it either. I think we agree then that the mantis is as bad as the tank?

Just from the IGN video:

"Very talented overcharge and then a plasma stick"

- Does the IGN guy even play Halo? He is getting excited by stuff which has made the vehicle sandbox dull.
I think its Ryan McCaffrey, guys been playing Halo since Halo 2 from what I know, maybe earlier. He used to cover Halo 2 like crazy back when he was with OXM. Don't know why he's saying stupid stuff though.
 
From Major Nelson, yeah second place is a terrible thing (seriously)...I await some new figures from him based on Unique Users (UU), which I think will arrive this week. I'm curious to see where Halo 4 is in the latest data.

LIVE Activity for week of November 19

Xbox 360 Top LIVE Titles (based on UU’s)

1. Call of Duty: Black Ops II
2. Halo 4
3. Minecraft: Xbox 360 Edition
4. Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3
5. EA Sports FIFA Soccer 13
6. Call of Duty: Black Ops
7. Assassin’s Creed III
8. NBA 2K13
9. Modern Warfare 2
10. Madden NFL 13
11. Battlefield 3
12. Borderlands 2
13. Skyrim
14. GTA IV
15. Halo: Reach
16. Gears of War 3
17. FIFA 12
18. Forza Motorsport 4
19. Hitman: Absolution
20. Forza Horizon
Also that IGN voting. I feel like IGN is the Halo Republic (9.8) or something. Or devoted Halo nerds found a way to scam the voting.
 
Oh, Halo 2 had lots going against it that weren't there by design, which is why it would be hard to go back to in its form just due to glitching and such. Which is why if anything it's even more unfortunate that they seem adverse to going back to that era of Halo design so that it can finally exist in a way that's not hindered by modding of the time and physics glitches.

Ah don't gimme that bunk, it's as bad as resorting to salt/slurp as a catch all response.
Rocket laucher and PP unavoidable lock-ons were there by design. Noob combo too and so were all those useless single handed weapons. That was all "by design".
 
WOW, really? No way in hell are all those better than bloom mate. At least you learn bloom gameplay aspects so you'd be in front 8/10 times.

Against modders, aimbots, host cheating and all that you'd never stand a 1/10 chance in hell. You'd be lucky to get 0.1/10 chance.
Because Bungie designed the game to have cheaters? Huh. That's news to me.
 
IGN Source Video Results Link

GRAPHICS
Total Votes: 91,699
Halo 4: 77,882
BOII: 13,817

CAMPAIGN
Total Votes: 66,749
Halo 4: 50,249
BOII: 16,496

MULTIPLAYER
Total Votes: 77,547
Halo 4: 50,223
BOII: 22,324


To me this speaks volumes about how successful Halo 4 has been in the overall marketplace. Apart from the developers access to their game statistics I doubt we can get such a volume of votes for comparison anywhere else.
I did not expect those results. I think I read too many gaf halo threads so I think the most people dislike halo 4.
 
Completely agreed and I cant name a good map which has ever had a tank on it either. I think we agree then that the mantis is as bad as the tank?
Coagulation 2 flag had tanks and even homing rockets. That in Halo 2 was a stable gametype/map for me.

I did not expect those results. I think I read too many gaf halo threads so I think the most people dislike halo 4.
That's just it, so many happy players literally just play the game or just lurk on forums. To me NeoGAF certainly has some valid points worthy of updates but mostly there are a lot of whiners that just need to let go of the past. I suppose that open to gaming in general these days, not just NeoGAF.