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[sankt-Antonio]

Only thing thats really annoying is that women hero’s somehow can’t have their personal second act. With that I mean, they are not allowed to be beaten down, loose an important fight, to then get it together and raise to the top in the third act of their personal journey.

They are all perfect from start to finish. That’s boring. Would also be boring in Man lead movies.

John McLain was a drunk who’s wife left him.

Rambo had PTSD etc.

Hollywood / Netflix made the new Hero’s to good, perfect and smart and therefore uninteresting.
Give me a char that can have flaws and I’ll take all the women they can shove in front of a camera.

 

[BigDeadFreak]

What is a woman anyway? Last I was told, they're an invention of society. Anyone can become one supposedly.

Good point. How can we be sure that any film has ever actually featured a woman at all? Maybe none of them were women, maybe they all were?

 

[Horns]

I love this trend. Why should archaic views on how women should act have any impact on society? Don't give af about your religion or your twisted views that society should be a certain way. Those calling it "woke" or political are ridiculous.

Having strong lead female characters who are independent are exactly what my daughters need to see. Keep them coming. If it makes you emasculated then that's a personal issue.

 

[recma12]

I love this trend. Why should archaic views on how women should act have any impact on society? Don't give af about your religion or your twisted views that society should be a certain way. Those calling it "woke" or political are ridiculous.

Having strong lead female characters who are independent are exactly what my daughters need to see. Keep them coming. If it makes you emasculated then that's a personal issue.

I have a daughter myself and would never want her to become a „Hollywood trope strong women“.
Because a personality like that wouldn’t work out IRL

 

[DeepEnigma]

I drop hot takes hoping you'll argue with me. Just ignore me.

 

[Billbofet]

I have a daughter myself and would never want her to become a „Hollywood trope strong women“.
Because a personality like that wouldn’t work out IRL

Agreed. I don't think it's "woke" nor a twisted view on society. Just think it's lazy when it's done with either men or women or any character.
Plus, I don't look to movies to give my kids lessons on life. We watch them for entertainment.

 

[Horns]

I have a daughter myself and would never want her to become a „Hollywood trope strong women“.
Because a personality like that wouldn’t work out IRL

Do people become Hollywood tropes from watching media though? Sounds like the flawed argument that video games make you violent. Showing different types of female characters in media is perfectly fine with me. Much better than how it was portrayed in the past.

That's not what I said either.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Do people become Hollywood tropes from watching media though?

I present to you, TikTok challenges.

 

[Konnor]

Do people become Hollywood tropes from watching media though? Sounds like the flawed argument that video games make you violent. Showing different types of female characters in media is perfectly fine with me. Much better than how it was portrayed in the past.

That's not what I said either.

Videogames aren't trying to indoctrinate you 24/7 with the idea that it's benevolent and empowering being violent, they just show violence. Not to mention that their influence is extremely limited compared to the onslaught of propaganda from woke media. So yeah, there are plenty of women who have become tropes by being brainwashed by social media and Hollywood.

 

[NeoIkaruGAF]

Much better than how it was portrayed in the past.

So you haven’t seen media from the past. Are you even old enough to have a daughter?

Step up your baiting game buddy, it’s so transparent.

 

[Horns]

Videogames aren't trying to indoctrinate you 24/7 with the idea that it's benevolent and empowering being violent, they just show violence. Not to mention that their influence is extremely limited compared to the onslaught of propaganda from woke media. So yeah, there are plenty of women who have become tropes by being brainwashed by social media and Hollywood.

This doesn't make any sense. If powerful female leads in media bother you that's a personal issue.

 

[Ionian]

I’m pretty sure it startet with The Hunger Games and Twilight. It’s just not the “strong woman can do anything” trope, but she’s also so insecure at the beginning that young women can relate to her.

I can recommend everyone to READ the book The Neverending Story, where in the second half the trope of the young, insecure boy becoming strong and independent gets turned around and he crumbles into nothingness. Michael Ende did this masterfully, the last chapters of the book are something you’ll never see in other heroes journeys.

You have me curious, watched it in the cinema when 5. Frightened the shit out of me. Others were Gremlins and Krull.

No regrets, laugh about it now. Father used to move the bedroom door, sister jumped into my bed. Cruel films they made for kids, they were for adults but marketed to kids.

I still like them but really ain't meant for kids.

 

[Konnor]

This doesn't make any sense. If powerful female leads in media bother you that's a personal issue.

You made a comparison with videogames and I explained to you in simple terms how that comparison is bad. Then you proceeded to reply with a vague "this doesn't make any sense" while accusing me of being bothered by powerful female leads. Learn to argue better.

Btw these characters aren't "powerful female leads", they're annoying brats who show their weakness by constantly trying to show how much better they are compared to men which is why I don't like them. 80's and 90's female protagonists were powerful, these are sniveling morons trying to compensate for their inferiority complex in at least 90% of the cases.

 

[DeepEnigma]

You made a comparison with videogames and I explained to you in simple terms how that comparison is bad. Then you proceeded to reply with a vague "this doesn't make any sense" while accusing me of being bothered by powerful female leads. Learn to argue better.

Btw these characters aren't "powerful female leads", they're annoying brats who show their weakness by constantly trying to show how much better they are compared to men which is why I don't like them. 80's and 90's female protagonists were powerful, these are sniveling morons trying to compensate for their inferiority complex in at least 90% of the cases.

Don't fall for that users Reeee type gaslighting and Kafka traps.

 

[Kazekage1981]

She-Ra?
Supergirl?
Captain Katherine Janeway?
Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon Protagonist.
Wonder Woman (havent seen the film)

I think what is common with the past films along with Xena is that they didn't have dialogues and scenes that fed and exposed their narcissistic self-centered, overvalued, obnoxious personalities along with their overt contempt towards men for simply being men, and their manufactured raised walls, and delicate egg shell floor that puts a strain on men to even connect with her without appearing 'misogynistic' 'insensitive' 'oblivious'

Why cant a chic be badass and win the heart of a hunky guy at the same time?

I personally want to see a lead protagonist female bad ass against an ultra-mega bitch female evil character with violent cat fights. I want the bad ass lead protagonist female character with her female posse killing the ultra-mega bitch female evil character and her female minions.

Oh no you can't have that because that would be violence against women and the idea of women killing other women in a fictional movie would explode everyone's asshole.

 

[Konnor]

She-Ra?
Supergirl?
Captain Katherine Janeway?
Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon Protagonist.
Wonder Woman (havent seen the film)

I think what is common with the past films along with Xena is that they didn't have dialogues and scenes that fed and exposed their narcissistic self-centered, overvalued, obnoxious personalities along with their overt contempt towards men for simply being men, and their manufactured raised walls, and delicate egg shell floor that puts a strain on men to even connect with her without appearing 'misogynistic' 'insensitive' 'oblivious'

Why cant a chic be badass and win the heart of a hunky guy at the same time?

I personally want to see a lead protagonist female bad ass against an ultra-mega bitch female evil character with violent cat fights. I want the bad ass lead protagonist female character with her female posse killing the ultra-mega bitch female evil character and her female minions.

Oh no you can't have that because that would be violence against women and the idea of women killing other women in a fictional movie would explode everyone's asshole.

It's because deep down woketards consider femininity a weakness even though they'll never admit it. One of the main reasons Sarah Connor became such a strong individual was because she was being maternal for example, now we can no longer have characters like these, a female protagonist that is feminine is immediately smeared as weak while female protagonists trying to emulate masculine qualities, often the worst ones and even more frequently quite comically, are being celebrated by the cult.

 

[darrylgorn]

I think there's a movie out called the Woman King.

Pretty sure that will be the end of the line lol

 

[Billbofet]

This doesn't make any sense. If powerful female leads in media bother you that's a personal issue.

I think most would agree that women actually deserve better than this - more character development, depth, and complexity.
This trope is also almost always at the expense of men, so neither side really benefits. This doesn't bother me either, as it's just lazy and broad.
Which is all fine and good as entertainment but not something to place values and expectations behind or upon anyone.

 

[Trunx81]

You have me curious, watched it in the cinema when 5. Frightened the shit out of me. Others were Gremlins and Krull.

No regrets, laugh about it now. Father used to move the bedroom door, sister jumped into my bed. Cruel films they made for kids, they were for adults but marketed to kids.

I still like them but really ain't meant for kids.

Read it!
It’s quite different from the movie (Ende hated it) and make sure to get a printed version with the green and red letters. After some time, the two colors “merge” as you get sucked deeper and deeper into the book. When I read it as an adult, it had a totally different meaning to me compared to when I read it as a child. Mind blowing.

 

[Ionian]

My own niece (and sister) was sexually abused by her father, my family tried to adopt her. It didn't work. I was never told why. She used to call over and was a tough bitch.

He abused my sister too. If I ever meet that man again, he'll get a re-conning. Complete scum.

Two women destroyed. It's heartbreaking. At least the daughter rammed his car, if I knew where he lived I'd go after him for my sister. Think he abused me too as a kid. You kinda black that shit out but never forget. It's difficult, could never find him and tried. Removed every pic from the family album, fucker was at my communion and confirmation.

Point being is my sister survived, has a wonderful son and is a genius, well soon to be a woman but I don't care. My sister survived. I still love them both.

More power to her.

 

[Ionian]

Read it!
It’s quite different from the movie (Ende hated it) and make sure to get a printed version with the green and red letters. After some time, the two colors “merge” as you get sucked deeper and deeper into the book. When I read it as an adult, it had a totally different meaning to me compared to when I read it as a child. Mind blowing.

Shit , never knew it was a book. I will do! I'll be a kid again

 

[Doom85]

Oh no you can't have that because that would be violence against women and the idea of women killing other women in a fictional movie would explode everyone's asshole.

Bruh, Dr. Strange 2 alone rips that apart. Wanda kills a bunch of women in it, some pretty brutally. And the climax has America Chavez punching Wanda in the face like five times.

Also, the horror movie Pearl that just came out. She kills both men and women pretty violently.

 

[Horns]

You made a comparison with videogames and I explained to you in simple terms how that comparison is bad. Then you proceeded to reply with a vague "this doesn't make any sense" while accusing me of being bothered by powerful female leads. Learn to argue better.

Btw these characters aren't "powerful female leads", they're annoying brats who show their weakness by constantly trying to show how much better they are compared to men which is why I don't like them. 80's and 90's female protagonists were powerful, these are sniveling morons trying to compensate for their inferiority complex in at least 90% of the cases.

You're obviously bothered by it. Wasn't even trying to argue. Your point just doesn't make sense. A 24/7 propaganda network of woke Hollywood media is indoctrinating females then throw in unrelated social media into the mix and some generalization of "plenty of women" becoming tropes. I just can't.

Don't think it's a difficult ask to want role models in media that young girls can see as powerful. Female characters interacting to expand the story. Strong female leads even if at the expense of a male character. How could that be bad for young girls to see?

 

[Konnor]

You're obviously bothered by it. Wasn't even trying to argue. Your point just doesn't make sense. A 24/7 propaganda network of woke Hollywood media is indoctrinating females then throw in unrelated social media into the mix and some generalization of "plenty of women" becoming tropes. I just can't.

Don't think it's a difficult ask to want role models in media that young girls can see as powerful. Female characters interacting to expand the story. Strong female leads even if at the expense of a male character. How could that be bad for young girls to see?

You trying WAY too hard not to see the difference between videogames just showing violence, not advocating for it, and a powerful network of social media and Hollywood weirdos trying to indoctrinate both children and adults. And btw the reason the tech industry is mentioned here should be fucking obvious to anyone with an IQ higher than zero, they belong to the same cult.

 

[I Master l]

It’s subtle programming aimed at the 18-35yr old male demographic who go to see these silly movies
that was written by sub men with femdom fetish, I dont mind strong female roles but not when most
men surrounding them seem stupid and incompetent

 

[OZ9000]

It's because deep down woketards consider femininity a weakness even though they'll never admit it. One of the main reasons Sarah Connor became such a strong individual was because she was being maternal for example, now we can no longer have characters like these, a female protagonist that is feminine is immediately smeared as weak while female protagonists trying to emulate masculine qualities, often the worst ones and even more frequently quite comically, are being celebrated by the cult.

Women aren't allowed to be women. They're only allowed to be men!

 

[TaylorSwiftFan]

Personally as a father of two girls, I would love to see a movie like that!

Its the sort of thing that parents want for their children. For them to be better than us.

So you could argue, that a movie like that is targeted at DieHard Dads

Targetted at DieHard Dads… unless you had boys…

 

[Vestal]

Targetted at DieHard Dads… unless you had boys…

So are you saying that it being a girl it would turn away Fathers with boys?

Oh and btw..

 

[nush]

Having strong lead female characters who are independent are exactly what my daughters need to see.

Is their mother chained up in the kitchen or something?

 

[TaylorSwiftFan]

So are you saying that it being a girl it would turn away Fathers with boys?

Oh and btw..

Probably. But why do you think that such a movie would be targeted at parents?

 

[TaylorSwiftFan]

Is their mother chained up in the kitchen or something?

Parents let Hollywood raise their kids these days.

 

[recma12]

Do people become Hollywood tropes from watching media though? Sounds like the flawed argument that video games make you violent. Showing different types of female characters in media is perfectly fine with me. Much better than how it was portrayed in the past.

That's not what I said either.

Isn't the reasoning behind those terrible "I don't need no man" characters that the "damsel in distress" characters affected young girls negatively?

 

[nush]

Isn't the reasoning behind those terrible "I don't need no man" characters that the "damsel in distress" characters affected young girls negatively?

Not directly, but if they are connected it's a massive over compensation. The woman that needs saving or is a "Prize"(wifed) is a trope that goes all the way back to classic children's literature.

 

[BadBurger]

I think Mary Sue characters have been overly employed lately in media, but some dudes are seriously seeing things that aren't there, are being hyperbolic, and likely falling for some chauvinist or chauvinist-adjacent YouTube outrage content.

I mean, once you start talking about vast conspiracies involving all of media (entertainment and journalistic) along with big tech to "indoctrinate" people in some vague unspecified way it's time to take a step back and try to get a calm, reasonable, thought-out perspective on things.

 

[MilkyJoe]

Plot devices are going to change through time. Who really cares as long as the movie is good.

They rarely are

 

[NeoIkaruGAF]

I think Mary Sue characters have been overly employed lately in media, but some dudes are seriously seeing things that aren't there, are being hyperbolic, and likely falling for some chauvinist or chauvinist-adjacent YouTube outrage content.

I mean, once you start talking about vast conspiracies involving all of media (entertainment and journalistic) along with big tech to "indoctrinate" people in some vague unspecified way it's time to take a step back and try to get a calm, reasonable, thought-out perspective on things.

People getting indoctrinated through the media is a conspiracy now?
You just don’t notice it when it’s your everyday way of living. Religious zealots and communists aren’t indoctrinated if you ask them, yet religion and communism get shat on at any given chance around places like this, don’t they?
The counterpoint to this very thread is that past societies were brainwashed by a narrative that painted “all” women as damsels in distress, is it not?

It’s not there, until it is and it’s the norm, and you’re the crazy one for not accepting it.
The media people consume affects the people. School shootings “inspired“ by Doom or PewDiePie are just the most extreme, unhinged aspects of this.

 

[BadBurger]

People getting indoctrinated through the media is a conspiracy now?
You just don’t notice it when it’s your everyday way of living. Religious zealots and communists aren’t indoctrinated if you ask them, yet religion and communism get shat on at any given chance around places like this, don’t they?
The counterpoint to this very thread is that past societies were brainwashed by a narrative that painted “all” women as damsels in distress, is it not?

It’s not there, until it is and it’s the norm, and you’re the crazy one for not accepting it.
The media people consume affects the people. School shootings “inspired“ by Doom or PewDiePie are just the most extreme, unhinged aspects of this.

The concept of people being indoctrinated through honest, legitimate, free, and independent media is a conspiracy - yes. Not all media is state run junk like Pravda or yellow journalism.

As for the rest, yes I think some are being hyperbolic and projecting. Most people understand that this is fantasy, that a 90 pound waif of a woman can't do the things that some of these women in modern TV and movies can do. The same as we understand that a big strong fictional male character like John Wick couldn't pull off 90% of the feats he repeats every five minutes in his movies. We suspend our disbelief and enjoy it for what it is.

 

[FunkMiller]

Not directly, but if they are connected it's a massive over compensation. The woman that needs saving or is a "Prize"(wifed) is a trope that goes all the way back to classic children's literature.

Bingo.

That's the issue.

The huge course correction that's gone on after decades of misogynistic depictions of women has gone far, far too far.

Now women cannot do anything wrong, or have any weaknesses, instead of being weak all the time.

It'll sort itself out eventually, and a decent balance will be struck, but we have to put up with these poor characterisations in our movies, TV and games until the adults take over again.

 

[Kimahri]

The concept of people being indoctrinated through honest, legitimate, free, and independent media is a conspiracy - yes. Not all media is state run junk like Pravda or yellow journalism.

As for the rest, yes I think some are being hyperbolic and projecting. Most people understand that this is fantasy, that a 90 pound waif of a woman can't do the things that some of these women in modern TV and movies can do. The same as we understand that a big strong fictional male character like John Wick couldn't pull off 90% of the feats he repeats every five minutes in his movies. We suspend our disbelief and enjoy it for what it is.

The difference between John Wick and a 90 pound waif is that Keanu Reeves trains so hard to make it look right that it does look right. Even if John Wick isn't a realistic movie, the way it's shot and coreographed makes it believable. Suspension of disbelief is achieved, and you buy into it.

Contrast this to that training fight in Rings of Power where Galadriel is supposed to show the boys how it's done and you just have to shake your head.

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

Strong female characters are not a problem.

Characters that have absolutely zero growth are the problem.

Right there. No arc, no drama.

 

[BadBurger]

The difference between John Wick and a 90 pound waif is that Keanu Reeves trains so hard to make it look right that it does look right. Even if John Wick isn't a realistic movie, the way it's shot and coreographed makes it believable. Suspension of disbelief is achieved, and you buy into it.

Contrast this to that training fight in Rings of Power where Galadriel is supposed to show the boys how it's done and you just have to shake your head.

I don't want to quibble, I was just pointing out that for the most part people acknowledge Mary Sue and Gary Stu characters for what they are and don't give any more thought to it.

As a side note Reeves's dedication to training for his action roles is commendable and impressive.

 

[FunkMiller]

The difference between John Wick and a 90 pound waif is that Keanu Reeves trains so hard to make it look right that it does look right. Even if John Wick isn't a realistic movie, the way it's shot and coreographed makes it believable. Suspension of disbelief is achieved, and you buy into it.

Contrast this to that training fight in Rings of Power where Galadriel is supposed to show the boys how it's done and you just have to shake your head.

Here's the thing with that... I am fully and happily prepared to believe that a small woman can effectively and easily outclass multiple male opponents in a combat situation... if they take the fucking time to show how that's feasible.

"She's an old elf!" doesn't fucking cut it as a reason. Take the time and the trouble to show us how this person has become an expert combatant. How she's become a leader.

I swear to God, half the issue with this stuff is just that screen writers have got incredibly lazy over the years.

Remember Terminator 2? Remember all that stuff with Sarah Connor doing chin ups, and all the information we were given about how she became a paranoid loner, who spent all her time learning how to use guns in the last few years, because she feared the apocalypse was coming?

THAT'S WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO.

 

[Kimahri]

Here's the thing with that... I am fully and happily prepared to believe that a small woman can effectively and easily outclass multiple male opponents in a combat situation... if they take the fucking time to show how that's feasible.

"She's an old elf!" doesn't fucking cut it as a reason. Take the time and the trouble to show us how this person has become an expert combatant. How she's become a leader.

I swear to God, half the issue with this stuff is just that screen writers have got incredibly lazy over the years.

Remember Terminator 2? Remember all that stuff with Sarah Connor doing chin ups, and all the information we were given about how she became a paranoid loner, who spent all her time learning how to use guns in the last few years, because she feared the apocalypse was coming?

THAT'S WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO.

That, or train your actors well, and coreograph the fights well to make it convincing. One single scene could be enough to demonstrate how good of a fighter someone is if it's done right.

I don't blame the actress, I blame everyone around her.

 

[Maiden Voyage]

They rarely are

I don't disagree. I only watch a handful of movies each year. I tend to stick to music.

 

[Winter John]

I like them old films when chicks were tied to train tracks. That looked fun. They should bring that shit back. Obviously not in real life. You should never tie a woman to train tracks. Even if they laugh at your new Metallica T-shirt in front of their friends, and ask if you've done your homework.

 

[jason10mm]

Isn't the reasoning behind those terrible "I don't need no man" characters that the "damsel in distress" characters affected young girls negatively?

In my many many years of watching action films with women, it twas the heros glistening abs that got their attention, not the plight of whatever starlet of the week was plot bait for the hero. Those films are just as exploitative of men as they are of women, guys just don't whine about it, they either accept their beer belly or hit the gym.

 

[MilkyJoe]

I don't disagree. I only watch a handful of movies each year. I tend to stick to music.

Music and Youtube for me

 

[Vestal]

Probably. But why do you think that such a movie would be targeted at parents?

Why and why not?

I mean, as a parent I would find it enticing.

 

[Horns]

Isn't the reasoning behind those terrible "I don't need no man" characters that the "damsel in distress" characters affected young girls negatively?

Do both not exist now in modern media? Whereas only the damsel in distress was the main theme of almost every female character in the past. It's new and different characters that excite me.

 

[Horns]

I think most would agree that women actually deserve better than this - more character development, depth, and complexity.
This trope is also almost always at the expense of men, so neither side really benefits. This doesn't bother me either, as it's just lazy and broad.
Which is all fine and good as entertainment but not something to place values and expectations behind or upon anyone.

Exactly. Well said. I think character development is often done at the expense of another character. I don't see it as always being done at a male or female character's expense. It's very mixed to me overall.