Ulysses 31
Member
So did the latest CX firmware update address the 30 fps judder in game mode as seen here(watch on YT itself or full screen instead of the embedded video)?
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How many OLED owners do we have here?
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Kuranghi
Member
Buy the Q90R, the zone reduction on the Q95T removes one of the two reasons to buy a Samsung in the first place. Its crazed to pay 900 euros extra for a worse TV, spec-wise.
If you watch movies on it then get the OLED though.
Kuranghi
Member
Its actually stutter I believe, not judder.
Everytime I answer this question people shout at me lol so I'll let rtings.com answer it this time:
I recommend the whole video, but the part I've linked is the OLED-relevant part. I dislike OLED stutter, I prefer smoother motion, even if its "blurry"/has trails/bleeding, it just looks better to me. I have an 65AF9 and a 65ZD9.
Its so confusing for general consumers lol even in the video he is like "In a perfect world, we'd have instant pixel response", but he also says "This means on OLED that 24/30hz content will have a strong stutter so maybe some motion blur is required to make it look "smooth"", which for games means, if it doesnt have motion blur you are screwed and if its a movie you need to apply motion interpolations/"smoothness", which will introduce artifacts even on the best motion systems that exist.
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Jigga117
Member
Its actually stutter I believe, not judder.
Everytime I answer this question people shout at me lol so I'll let rtings.com answer it this time:
I recommend the whole video, but the part I've linked is the OLED-relevant part. I dislike OLED stutter, I prefer smoother motion, even if its "blurry"/has trails/bleeding, it just looks better to me. I have an 65AF9 and a 65ZD9.
Its so confusing for general consumers lol even in the video he is like "In a perfect world, we'd have instant pixel response", but he also says "This means on OLED that 24/30hz content will have a strong stutter so maybe some motion blur is required to make it look "smooth"", which for games means, if it doesnt have motion blur you are screwed and if its a movie you need to apply motion interpolations/"smoothness", which will introduce artifacts even on the best motion systems that exist.
This video from 3 years ago is not today’s C9 and CX so this isn’t relevant with my C9 77/55. No stutter issues from any consoles or PC
Kuranghi
Member
Its not a debate lol its inherent to the technology, I'm not trying to offend your TV mate, the ghosting/image duplication is caused by the camera.
What motion settings do you use on your C9(s)?
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Turk1993
GAFs #1 source for car graphic comparisons
Already got the C9 last week, and im more than happy. Wish it could get litlle brighter but outside that amazing picture quality and colors. And i can't wait to try 4K 120hz 4*4*4 when RTX 3 series comes out. But thnx for the reply
Ulysses 31
Member
Its actually stutter I believe, not judder.
Everytime I answer this question people shout at me lol so I'll let rtings.com answer it this time:
I recommend the whole video, but the part I've linked is the OLED-relevant part. I dislike OLED stutter, I prefer smoother motion, even if its "blurry"/has trails/bleeding, it just looks better to me. I have an 65AF9 and a 65ZD9.
Its so confusing for general consumers lol even in the video he is like "In a perfect world, we'd have instant pixel response", but he also says "This means on OLED that 24/30hz content will have a strong stutter so maybe some motion blur is required to make it look "smooth"", which for games means, if it doesnt have motion blur you are screwed and if its a movie you need to apply motion interpolations/"smoothness", which will introduce artifacts even on the best motion systems that exist.
Yeah but the confusing thing is that both Samsung and LG call the setting De-Judder to enable motion interpolation to get rid of it...
Ulysses 31
Member
I'm still trying to get used to the lower brightness, I'm so used to things almost glowing when bathed in light. >.>
Kuranghi
Member
Awesome mate, you won't regret it. Try these on it, play them on the internal youtube player for 4K + HDR but you can also run them in your PC browser and get a not-small benefit from downsampling from 8K, the 3D effect of the 12K one at 8K downsampled is a sight to behold, super 3D and you can perfectly make out the taxis:
Ulysses 31
Member
Stuttering is still present on CX, whether you find it an issue is a different matter.
I was pleasantly surprised that stuttering wasn't as bad as my 2016 OLED.
Kuranghi
Member
Yeah but the confusing thing is that both Samsung and LG call the setting De-Judder to enable motion interpolation to get rid of it...
Oh yeah I know, they make it hard for everyone to understand by being so obtuse (manufacturers in general). Should be called "Smoothing" or "MCFI" imo.
Kuranghi
Member
I don't know if where you live the shops are open, but somewhere with an OLED next to an LCD, both playing 24hz content will instantly show you the difference in motion. Thats with all the motion settings turned off.
I'm not saying OLED motion is bad, I just know it has downsides, just like the LCD I own has smearing/bleeding. Some advantages, some disadvantages.
OLED has downsides but the upsides (per-pixel dimming so no blooming, viewing angle is way better) are so game-changing that most people don't care about the downsides.
Everytime I point this out OLED owners attack me, I believe in giving a balanced opinion based on all the factors, thats all.
Kuranghi
Member
I must have shown nearly around 500 people this clip of Spiderman, its 24hz:
I showed them the same clip with the motion smoothing on (sometimes with BFI as well) and then with it off (and vice versa to make sure it wasn't just the first thing they liked) and I'd say 80-90% of people HATED it without smoothing, thats just my experience with OLED motion and 24hz content. Your average joe can't see motion artifacts generally but they definitely CAN see OLED-stutter.
Buuut, this super low PRT means that retro/low res games look freaking amazing on OLED. SNES/Genesis emulation on the 77C9 must look amazeballs. Or something with super high contrast, textureless graphics like Antichamber.
I showed them the same clip with the motion smoothing on (sometimes with BFI as well) and then with it off (and vice versa to make sure it wasn't just the first thing they liked) and I'd say 80-90% of people HATED it without smoothing, thats just my experience with OLED motion and 24hz content. Your average joe can't see motion artifacts generally but they definitely CAN see OLED-stutter.
Buuut, this super low PRT means that retro/low res games look freaking amazing on OLED. SNES/Genesis emulation on the 77C9 must look amazeballs. Or something with super high contrast, textureless graphics like Antichamber.
Jigga117
Member
No offense taken just that majority of my time I play games that are 60fps or higher between my and the games I do play that are known to be 30 has been smooth. This was an issue with my 2015 Vizio before switching to the C9
Kuranghi
Member
Oh yeah no worries. 60hz looks brilliant for me, no complaints there.
Do you use motion smoothing? That would definitely lessen the stutter effect for 24/30hz content.
Also, if you don't find it a problem then you are winning anyway.
NeoIkaruGAF
Gold Member
Yup, that’s OLED motion with sub-60fps content. My friends with LED TVs immediately understood what I had been saying to them about OLED motion when I showed them something similar.
It’s just the way it is. At 60fps everything works as intended, but anything lower than that looks stuttery and it can be hard to focus on stuff during camera movements in games.
Daffy Duck
Member
C9 owner checking in
Jigga117
Member
Yes but trying to think what content I play that would require 30hz or below which is why I don’t see it. I also know some people are more sensitive to this than others.
Ulysses 31
Member
Console games capped at 30 fps? Video signal is still 60 Hz though.
Turk1993
GAFs #1 source for car graphic comparisons
Yup, miss that bright pop when bright scenes happen.
Yeah i watched some clips from the Youtube app with 4K 60fps HDR Dolby Vision and they looked insane. You realy see the difference between sdr and hdr there.
Jigga117
Member
Key part of that is what I PLAY not what games in general. I got a Xbox One X before the C9. The games I play run at 60 and then there is my PC that games that are 30 I am playing 60 or above on it. Ass Creed O and Division 2 being 30 and as a matter of fact Division 2 I do play PC and Xbox One X and don't experience stutter in that game on my X at 30fps and I play that religiously.
Grinchy
Banned
My brother decided to buy a LG CX. He got it earlier today. He has me do all the settings/calibration for him on this stuff since it always feels overwhelming to him.
While getting him all set up, to get on game mode with HDR so I could change the settings, I just used Tetris Effect on PS4 Pro since it would be a fast download and a game with minimal loading. Holy fuck! It was melting my god damn face off in the most delightfully painful way ever. This TV looks god damn amazing and that game really shines with its HDR (no pun intended).
What he didn't tell me was that to thank me for coming over and helping him install the mount and getting him all set up, he was sending me back home with his KS8500 for free. So we both got nice upgrades today.
While getting him all set up, to get on game mode with HDR so I could change the settings, I just used Tetris Effect on PS4 Pro since it would be a fast download and a game with minimal loading. Holy fuck! It was melting my god damn face off in the most delightfully painful way ever. This TV looks god damn amazing and that game really shines with its HDR (no pun intended).
What he didn't tell me was that to thank me for coming over and helping him install the mount and getting him all set up, he was sending me back home with his KS8500 for free
. So we both got nice upgrades today.
PropellerEar
Member
I'm getting more and more annoyed by the insane amount of popups LG WebOS makes me suffer.
Do you want to add this streaming app as fav #3? you cannot do anything for minute while we show you this popup, you can only accept or wait it out...
Selecting any channel in the GUIDE, this channel lacks preview OK/CANCEL. Why the fuck do I need to care about this preview every single time i go between any channel in the Guide?
Doesn't remember any setting you do for any channel. AI my ass.
Land on a Scrambled channel accidentally... you have half second to select another, or you will get a popup. Channel is Scrambled OK/CANCEL. select either one and you have half a second to select another channel before you get this glorious popup again.
Don't remember this kind of popup BS on my previous Sony TV.
That said Liking everything else on my 77C9.
Do you want to add this streaming app as fav #3? you cannot do anything for minute while we show you this popup, you can only accept or wait it out...
Selecting any channel in the GUIDE, this channel lacks preview OK/CANCEL. Why the fuck do I need to care about this preview every single time i go between any channel in the Guide?
Doesn't remember any setting you do for any channel. AI my ass.
Land on a Scrambled channel accidentally... you have half second to select another, or you will get a popup. Channel is Scrambled OK/CANCEL. select either one and you have half a second to select another channel before you get this glorious popup again.
Don't remember this kind of popup BS on my previous Sony TV.
That said Liking everything else on my 77C9.
Jigga117
Member
I don’t experience any pop ups outside of turning the tv on and I got an update for my apps. I went in and customized my app list on both my 55&77c9.
Ulysses 31
Member
LG OLED stutters more than Samsung QLED!!!!11!!!!
It's absolutely a legitimate issue to bring up when choosing a new TV though.
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V2Tommy
Member
LG OLED stutters more than Samsung QLED!!!!11!!!!
It's absolutely a legitimate issue to bring up when choosing a new TV though.
Choosing a TV with more blur to combat a thing you're not used to is baffling. Have at it.
Ulysses 31
Member
Blur might be preferable to the back and forth flickering of frames. Have at it.
I have the luxury of both so I don't have to choose.
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V2Tommy
Member
Can't, sorry. Staring at 5% grey slides and crying about my vertical banding and mura.
Ulysses 31
Member
Doesn't OLED generally have less banding and dirty screen effect than LCD?
V2Tommy
Member
Doesn't OLED generally have less banding and dirty screen effect than LCD?
Oh, by far.
But I'm coming from a plasma(s). Their uniformity is perfect in every color, every brightness. 5% grey uniformity or lower on OLED is some nasty shit. Lots of content (especially HDR games) will show the issues, so OLED owners that are also OCD have to roll the dice between banding, DSE, dead pixels or color tinting. There is no perfect display, but a 4K plasma sure would be nice!
LCD TVs have double the issues, but at half the price. That's the tricky part.
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PropellerEar
Member
SoggyBiscuit
Banned
65" B9 Owner here. Loving it. I am so glad I made the upgrade.
Ulysses 31
Member
So you use 2 TVs?
Jigga117
Member
Have you tried to start the tv from scratch and see if a setting was missed that caused it. I am not at home for lunch yet maybe I can see what i did that does not ever I recall this happening. I have only had the 55 since Feb and the 77 since June.Lucky you...
replicant-
Member
C9 owners have you tweaked the settings on game mode? e.g. Oled light, etc.
Jigga117
Member
I honestly haven’t touched any of the brightness settings and made adjustments in game like on Division 2 and Far Cry New Dawn
Ulysses 31
Member
Yeah, especially when you're used to QLED brightness. >.>
OLED light goes on 100, if I don't really need the brightness I put energy saving on auto.
OLED light goes on 100, if I don't really need the brightness I put energy saving on auto.
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V2Tommy
Member
Yeah, especially when you're used to QLED brightness. >.>
OLED light goes on 100, if I don't really need to brightness I put energy saving on auto.
And the HDR Game mode automatically turns OLED Light to 100 no matter what, so there's that. I also used Energy Saving = Auto for SDR Game preset. It was perfect.
Dave_at_Home
Member
I'm in the market for a new TV for next-gen consoles and had no idea about this issue. You think variable refresh rate will help this? LG CX is on my short list for now, but at the end of the day, the potential for burn-in keeps me at bay. I'm really looking forward to TCL's Vidrian tech and hope they make a 55'. Also, I'm keeping an eye out on Vizio for their latest quantum X lineup. As long as they don't sacrifice the dimming algorithm in game-mode.
Ulysses 31
Member
I went with an LG CX and while miss the burn in piece of mind and brightness of QLED, the fact that there's no foto's of C9/CX with burn in so far leads me to believe that the burn in threat has greatly been reduced with these models. Personally I found the input lag with tru motion still low enough to play 30 fps games with.
Only thing you can't do much about is the auto brightness limiter unless you get a service remote and turn it off with that.
Jigga117
Member
Get a protection plan for any tv you get for these prices and for OLED like Best Buy that covers burn in. Every tv and electronic device is susceptible to surges.
In the last two weeks I have been in multiple homes for cable service and each customer had surge damage from cable boxes, modems and TVs. Some on surge protectors some not.
Ulysses 31
Member
Bryank75
Banned
Doesn't seem to be in the list... so I think I'm safe (at least I hope so). LOL
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