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[Slings and Arrows]

This will be a ten year gen, with 'refreshes' at the 5 year mark.

In 2030, you will own no console, and you will like it. (Everything will be streaming)

 

[jigglet]

Impossible. Tech will stop advancing as of today.

 

[buenoblue]

I don't see why not. The xbox one x was probably equivalent to a 1060/1070. let's say the these consoles are equivalent to 2060/2070. Were already on to 30xx cards on pc so in 4 years it's not crazy to assume a console could release with a 6070/7070 equivalent, which would likely deliver at least double the performance of ps5/XSX.

 

[Alphagear]

Mark Cerny will find a way.

 

[buenoblue]

Maybe an HTPC, not a mid or full tower ATX.

My 2070 super/3600x case is 15 inches high. Ps5 with stand is closer to 16 inches.

 

[SegaSnatcher]

My 2070 super/3600x case is 15 inches high. Ps5 with stand is closer to 16 inches.

Height is the not problem, its overall volume and specifically depth.

 

[SegaSnatcher]

Why wouldn't it be possible?

- same CPU
- faster GPU with more cores
- More RAM
- better RayTracing hardware?


How is none of that possible? The biggest issue would be the better GPU due to heat, but they could do it.

But why is this even a question right now with the consoles not even available everywhere yet?

Within the same size form factor to achieve at least twice the performance? I know Sony/Microsoft can eventually get there, but will node size be available by then to make this a possibility.

 

[JareBear: Remastered]

More SSD space, bigger GPUs, higher clocked CPUs, more RAM

definitely possible in a few years

 

[Nhranaghacon]

Is this a thread attempting to imply Moores Law has found it's limit? We are no where near hitting the limit of how much smaller compute can get, we are scheduled to shift towards molecular computers by 2023 in computer science lab's via off the shelf component's... say's literally all of Computer Science - molecular compute has already been achieved and the 5, 3, 2 and 1 nanometer form factors are definitely on the roadmap for console chips. We already have CPU's with upwards of 5,256 CPU cores so why would this trend be anywhere near slowing down? It is actually accelerating.

As far as seeing new consoles release before we actually arrive at next gen, I doubt it will happen this go around - but possible - we may see a simple ssd upgrade in both parts, and perhaps a simple refinement of both consoles and form factor - but even the ssd upgrade may not happen. However technology is outpacing itself - even now - so it may prove financially beneficial and lucrative to consumer's to provide upgraded tier's.

I'm still not certain we will see upgraded variant's. I do see Microsoft investing heavily into it's MLRender processes on it's console however.

 

[Nikana]

More SSD space, bigger GPUs, higher clocked CPUs, more RAM

definitely possible in a few years

Welcome back fam.

 

[iHaunter]

Didn't we double in TFLOPs from 2080Ti to 3080? And that's just one year. Don't know the exact numbers but it was huge. Imagine in 3-4.

 

[Hostile_18]

Oh god I can't even think about the next console already .

I won't be invested as this long year wait/drip feed of information but id buy it day 1 nevertheless.

 

[KevinHelpUs]

Sure, why not? For those of us on PC, I'd rather they do that than hold back game devs at a four year-old performance threshold.

 

[RoboFu]

atr the rate AMD seems to be improving their CPUs aand GPUS. i would say yes.

 

[Bonsaibäumchen]

atr the rate AMD seems to be improving their CPUs aand GPUS. i would say yes.

This - although you'd have to stay on RNDA2 Featureset maybe with better/more RT Accelerators
But AFAIK RDNA3 is 5NM and already in the work for Apple. So maybe a Pro Version would use the shrink to crank up Zen2 and RDNA2 performance for a pro version.
I can't tell though of how much performance they can get by that shrink. PS4 was 28nm and Pro was 14nm ( now those are mostly marketing terms so who the hell knows how effective those shrinks were for real )

 

[Valued Gamer]

Not sure at this point.
For it to be worthwhile it's going to have to be double the performance at least, so we are looking at close to 100CUs on XSX2, and around 72 on PS5 Pro, if they could run that high a frequency with that many CUs.

In all likelihood, the real advances is going to be from Machine Learning.
It's at an interesting point at the moment about where tech is going.

 

[Moogle11]

For me it’s largely a “who cares” proposition as I mostly regretted “upgrading” to a PS4 Pro.

The older I get, the less I care about having the best graphics and performance. As long as i can play the latest games I’m good. Upgrades tend to be marginal for people like me who aren’t that sensitive to such things as the launch models have bigger install bases and the big budget AAA games I play aren’t going to run like complete ass on those.

 

[CrustyBritches]

Both companies releasing 2 skus at launch would suggest they won't do a pro variation in the same manner as the mid-gen PS4P and X1X, but rather storage capacity and form-factor.

 

[Coolwhhip]

They just have to make them twice the size.

 

[HF2014]

We are getting close to hitting limits in terms of how much smaller chip manufactures can shrink nodes and you'd want at least a 2x multiplier in terms of potential performance to even justify releasing Pro versions. I don't know if this even realistically possible within the time frame of 3 - 4 yrs.

Also, these consoles seem a lot more powerful out of the gate compared to what we got back in 2013, so are Pro versions really necessary? Seems like the best case for a die shrink is to focus on reducing power consumption for slim models and targeting same performance. Also, I'd imagine a Pro version specifically for PS5 would complicate BC even further as I'm sure clock speeds would probably be increased yet again causing more problems for some games.

Im expecting a revision in less than 2 years tbh. And hoping that way a smaller xbsx. Pro and X consoles from previous gen were a success, im not seeing why it shouldnt happen. This is todays electronic standards.

 

[BlackTron]

Of course it's possible. I don't think it's as likely as it was last gen, but it is easily possible for sure.

But we know for sure there will be some type of revision anyway, and it will probably be better to have than the original for whatever reason. Even if it had games I really wanted to play right away (it doesn't), I would still wait just because I want one that's smaller and looks different. To me it looks too silly for me to take seriously.

 

[MatrixReloaded101]

We will get slim models way before we get pro models. That is if the pro models even happen.

Casuals will complain more about the size of these consoles versus what they can do which is why I think my theory above will happen

 

[The_Mike]

Gimmie a slim version

 

[TLZ]

I'd rather they not release Pro versions this time. Like you said they're much better out the gate than last gen. Just make them more efficient and smaller later on, like always.

 

[Yselacrey00]

Seems rather odd to do this time around as no need for 4K marketing. Also we likely going to get more years of cross gen games this generation. So we would only get like a year worth of loads of true next gen games before a mid gen refresh which is odd. I reckon this time round the midgen stuff will be a add on like PSVR2 and Xbox Series X VR solution as well as Slim Verizon of the consoles and consoles with more built in storage.

Your take seems short minded. 8K is right around the corner, 5 years is a lot of time and tech is outdated the moment it leaves the production line.

I can easily see a slim version in 2 years and a pro version in 4 to 5 years.

 

[cryptoadam]

Yes of course, its actually pre baked in. and 3 - 4 years LOL. More like 24 months.

These systems are struggling to run games 4K 60 with RT. All we have really seen is last gen games getting a spruce up. Even Miles Morales is a last gen game and its going 4K 30 with RT. Watch Dogs (ya LOL UBI) is not even really 4K with RT and again thats a last gen game.

The Pro versions are going to be sold on full RT + full 4K + 60FPS.

When next gen really hits instead of these last gen games, these systems are going to struggle and I bet we start seeing tons of 1440P games at 30 if they want RT.

 

[ripjoel]

PS5 Pro

5nm+
8c Zen(?) with 3 to 4 threads per core
20TFLops
24GB HBM2 (should be cheaper than GDDR6 by then)
More RT acceleration
AI acceleration (for upscalling from 1440p>>4K or 4K>>8K & accelerated RT denosing)
1TB

Spoiler

1440p support

 

[Codes 208]

I think Sony should focus more on new slim model. As for xbox, yes. The whole point of the name “series” suggest multiple iterations so we’ll likely see a series Y or Series Z or X2 down the line

 

[Bungie]

Playstation will make a Slim & Xbox will make a all digital Series X. That's my guess. Both having a bigger SSD to keep them with the $500 price point.

 

[Elios83]

I doubt it, shrinking the size of transistors is becoming really challenging and in this situation the only way to make more powerful CPUs/GPUs is to make huge chips with poor yields and significant power consumption.
We are already seeing the effects of this in the size of PS5.
Also given that 8K gaming will be useless for years to come if not forever and the only immediate benefit would be better ray tracing and machine learning performance I don't think there's such a need for mid gen upgrades this time.
I think the focus will be on making the current consoles smaller, more efficient and less expensive while also adding bigger SSD space.

 

[SNG32]

Unless the mid gen can pump 8k I don’t see it happening. Better enjoy these specs for the next 7 years. I think this gen will be a long one.

 

[Freelance Yakuza]

People don't understand. Cerny makes no promises, he shows what he did and explains why he did it that way.

 

[Desudzer10]

If anything they'll have better storage solutions. As for a pro console i wouldn't be surprised either way.

 

[MetalAlien]

it's been a long time since I read such a big bullshit ...

The PS5 consumes 200W, at worst the PS5 pro will consume 350-400 watts, no more.

 

[the_master]

Its possible but I dont think it will be at the price point of $499. I dont think either company will want to surpass that price-point. For that reason I dont see either one trying the pro model again this gen.

Maybe they will evaluate the potential users who would get a 999$ premium console with performance gains and some quality features and finish, and release such a box.
I would get one and I am sure many more would do the same.

Could run the same games just better framerrate and resolution and anything easily scalable on top

 

[Nikana]

Maybe they will evaluate the potential users who would get a 999$ premium console with performance gains and some quality features and finish, and release such a box.
I would get one and I am sure many more would do the same.

Could run the same games just better framerrate and resolution and anything easily scalable on top

I don't see the return on a $1000 box being that high.

 

[the_master]

I don't see the return on a $1000 box being that high.

Do you mean profit, or performance?

 

[Nikana]

Do you mean profit, or performance?

Profit.

The console market wouldn't adapt to a $1000 box in droves.

 

[Tschumi]

I'm sure that a slim ps5 will eventually come out, and the next XSX is gonna try to match the PS5 speeds and paint it as an innovation Also, it's clear that full RT at 4k is beyond these consoles* as it stands now, so at some point something will be done to allow for that.

* the difference in end product being, PS is willing to dial back the resolution to achieve attractive graphics etc with artful use of RT, whereas xBox seems to be insisting on the resolution, and paying the price in terms of detail and texture quality.

 

[EDMIX]

I see zero reason why not.

Did tech just stop advancing for Sony and MS suddenly or?

 

[teezzy]

Absolutely yes. PC tech alone is about to dwarf these consoles by then. The amount of progress SSDs have made alone in the past 4 years is startling, hence them being available in consoles now as a standard. M.2 was brand new in 2015ish now the consoles have NVME

Expect much faster load times somehow and 3080 power off the next iterations

 

[supernova8]

3-4 years hmm.... if it takes a while for developers to get used to this new "paradigm" (ie super fast SSDs negating old game design practices) then we'll be waiting for a while to get games that truly squeeze all the juice out of this machines. I was under the impression that PS4 Pro/Xbox One X only came out because PS4/X1 were already underpowered when they released. That's not the case for these new products.

Then again, if we remember AMD is buying Xilinx (also masters of custom chip design, and FPGA, and apparently great with packaging), it means AMD should have more resources to pull it off. Sony and Microsoft clearly had a good enough relationship with AMD that they could get what is essentially RDNA2 GPU and Zen 2 CPU inside a box that would've been planned out a few years back. That means they are probably well aware (but under NDA) of what AMD has cooking for the next few years.

 

[Mike Zhang]

I think ps4pro doesn't sell so well to justify a mid-gen refresh.

 

[VFXVeteran]

I don't think there will be any Pro versions to these consoles this generation. You guys are stuck with these boxes for 7yrs.

 

[VFXVeteran]

I am betting on 20TF console on both end with double raytracing performance for same price.

Keep dreaming. That's what ya'll do every generation and the reality is way way less than what you hope for.

 

[Kamina]

Maybe even in two years, together with a slim version.

 

[mcz117chief]

It is very possible and I am not going to buy the base PS5 because of it, got burned once on PS4 so I am not going to make the same mistake.

 

[ExKing]

I don't think we'll get a more powerful console. However, I expect Sony to have the equivalent of the Series S. Maybe with hybrid features. Microsoft will release as well another system, maybe to allow cloud gaming.

But new systems as the Pro and the X ? Forget it. I think the Pro and X did not match the expectations for the investment in R & D they required.

 

[Nhranaghacon]

I say, expect console games - when harnessed by masterful dev studios - to eclipse anything PC's put out that attempt to utilize the 3080 properly - as such; don't expect PC game's to actually harness the power of a 3080 completely (unless we're merely talking higher resolution) until Nvidia releases the 5080 ( or whatever it may be called, yes that is two more GPU generations down the road) such is PC gaming.

The 3080/3090 ect will be great performer's that are again, for the unteenth time - completely underutilized by the PC dev industry and as such console gaming may take a stark lead in visual's when speaking about first party titles - unless some dev decides to jump in and deliver; which rarely happens ever.

 

[existensmaximum]

I believe the need for pro consoles is much smaller this generation due to how powerful these new consoles are, especially the PS5 with the incredibly impressive innovations around the IO and SSD. Just slapping in a few extra teraflops aren't going to do much with diminishing returns. I guess they could increase the ray tracing capabilities, but looking at the Spiderman games, I'm blown away already by how impressive these games look in that department already at launch.

Will the developers even have maxed out the PS5 in 3-4 years? Who knows, will be interesting to see but I don't think so. I suppose we'll see smaller revisions though for sure within a few years.