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[Deified Data]

Absolutely in support of Japan finally outlawing child porn possession.

That said, I wouldn't consider loli smut "child porn". They're galaxies apart in their implications.

It's a trite discussion: violent games. But it's just an example of how the desire to ban cartoon porn is not very far off from what Jack Thompson was trying to save us from. He thought "monkey see, monkey do".

You're absolutely right. I play violent video games. I've blown people's brains out just for being in the wrong place at the wrong time, yet I'm an extremely calm person with virtually zero violent tendencies. It's disingenuous to argue against the legality of lolicon but not violent video games and movies.

 

[Akainu]

Will someone please think of the shotas!

 

[Seanspeed]

Because no harm no foul? I'm not seeing the crime or the victims of 2D lolicon porn. If there are any then I could be persuaded. What you're saying is essentially is that you want people to be shamed for something that is not any of your business and would presumably not effect you in any way.

Perhaps I see it as an idealism, yes, but I dont see how it hurts anything.

An environment where stuff like this is allowed to be so prevalent that a mini-culture develops around it seems like something worth discouraging. Having no laws against it is a sign to these people that its ok and acceptable behavior.

Maybe there could be programs that seek to dissuade people from this kind of thing rather than fining them or whatever, but I tend to think that laws can be pretty effective in sending that message.

 

[Haly]

An environment where stuff like this is allowed to be so prevalent that a mini-culture develops around it seems like something worth discouraging. Having no laws against it is a sign to these people that its ok and acceptable behavior.

Maybe there could be programs that seek to dissuade people from this kind of thing rather than fining them or whatever, but I tend to think that laws can be pretty effective in sending that message.

 

[Kettch]

I would be very skeptical of the study. Does your urge to have sex with women go down just because you can view porn?

In the short term? Yes, of course.

Obviously a good porn viewing session isn't going to eliminate my pursuit of actual women, but it is going to fulfill my urges for a while. If I didn't have (adult) porn to view, it would be a hell of a lot more difficult to spend time without a sexual partner.

If a pedophile can manage to contain his sexual urges to the viewing of drawings of kids, then I say good for him. Much respect, that's a true hero. Just imagine how difficult your life would be if sex with women or viewing porn were considered the most harmful and vile acts imaginable to women. I'd like to think I could get by without either due to my strong morals, but some harmless drawn porn would certainly be helpful.

 

[Lonely1]

I'd count this as something explicit even if it shows no nudity.



Sick.

.

 

[Horse Detective]

Mermen just don't care.

This made me laugh out loud more than it should have

 

[FelixOrion]

Perhaps I see it as an idealism, yes, but I dont see how it hurts anything.

An environment where stuff like this is allowed to be so prevalent that a mini-culture develops around it seems like something worth discouraging. Having no laws against it is a sign to these people that its ok and acceptable behavior.

Maybe there could be programs that seek to dissuade people from this kind of thing rather than fining them or whatever, but I tend to think that laws can be pretty effective in sending that message.

Citation needed.

 

[Dresden]

Cannibalism: the purest form of love.

 

[cameron]

Perhaps I see it as an idealism, yes, but I dont see how it hurts anything.

An environment where stuff like this is allowed to be so prevalent that a mini-culture develops around it seems like something worth discouraging. Having no laws against it is a sign to these people that its ok and acceptable behavior.

Maybe there could be programs that seek to dissuade people from this kind of thing rather than fining them or whatever, but I tend to think that laws can be pretty effective in sending a message effectively.

There are laws when it involves real victims. Those are the indicators that we don't tolerate such abhorrent behvaiour. The sexual assault of a real person is illegal, but fictional depictions like a rape fantasy video or erotic fiction is not. Hate or racially motivated crimes against a real person is illegal, but fictional depictions are not.

 

[Ratrat]

Are there laws banning people who look underage from doing porn?
What about a drawing of a mature looking woman labeled as being underage?

 

[Seanspeed]

In the short term? Yes, of course.

Obviously a good porn viewing session isn't going to eliminate my pursuit of actual women, but it is going to fulfill my urges for a while. If I didn't have (adult) porn to view, it would be a hell of a lot more difficult to spend time without a sexual partner.

If a pedophile can manage to contain his sexual urges to the viewing of drawings of kids, then I say good for him. Much respect, that's a true hero. Just imagine how difficult your life would be if sex with women or viewing porn were considered the most harmful and vile acts imaginable to women. I'd like to think I could get by without either due to my strong morals, but some harmless drawn porn would certainly be helpful.

You dont need porn to masturbate, though. Porn itself doesn't alleviate your sexual urge, the masturbation does. The porn is just a tool. Loli porn is also just a tool. For people who want to jack off to young girls.

I got by with my sexual urges just fine before I had easy access to porn. Once you have easy access to it, its hard to go back, sure, but its not as if porn is a requisite for relieving sexual frustration.

 

[MidgarBlowedUp]

An environment where stuff like this is allowed to be so prevalent that a mini-culture develops around it seems like something worth discouraging.

So, we should shut down neogaf?

 

[BocoDragon]

Are there laws banning people who look underage from doing porn?

I know why you ask the question. Because what makes a girl underage in porn... that she looks underage? Can you check her little cartoon ID?

I know a 30 year old Japanese woman who people often assume is a teenager

 

[Haly]

I know a 30 year old Japanese woman who people assume is a teenager

You sick filth.

 

[Tomat]

You dont need porn to masturbate, though. Porn itself doesn't alleviate your sexual urge, the masturbation does. The porn is just a tool. Loli porn is also just a tool. For people who want to jack off to young girls.

I got by with my sexual urges just fine before I had easy access to porn. Once you have easy access to it, its hard to go back, sure, but its not as if porn is a requisite for relieving sexual frustration.

You should really make the distinction between fictional young girls and real young girls in your posts. It's a little disturbing that you haven't been.

 

[Risette]

Will someone please think of the shotas!

->

Is this the thing that's going to usher in that glorious MILF future?

Cute stay at home moms doing cute things.

: )

 

[BocoDragon]

You sick filth.

And yet I'd be the younger one, if I hit it

 

[meltingparappa]

You dont need porn to masturbate, though. Porn itself doesn't alleviate your sexual urge, the masturbation does. The porn is just a tool. Loli porn is also just a tool. For people who want to jack off to young girls.

I got by with my sexual urges just fine before I had easy access to porn. Once you have easy access to it, its hard to go back, sure, but its not as if porn is a requisite for relieving sexual frustration.

Whelp, sounds like you figured it out for yourself, and have the one golden answer that applies to every single person on the planet! You should dictate how everyone safely expresses their sexuality when they're alone. Using laws to protect victims that don't exist, no less!

 

[Izayoi]

Guys, please.

Lines that were drawn on paper have feelings. They're people too! We have to protect them!

 

[duckroll]

"Currently, possessing child pornography is not illegal in Japan so long as the owner is not selling, distributing, or creating the images. The amendment would make possession of sexual images of individuals under 18 illegal"

Side-stepping the "is loli anime child pornography" discussion for a moment, I think it's more interesting to look at the main intent of the bill itself. To outlaw the possession of child pornography. Yeah. Erm. It's 2013. How the fuck is that not already illegal?! >_<

 

[BocoDragon]

"Currently, possessing child pornography is not illegal in Japan so long as the owner is not selling, distributing, or creating the images. The amendment would make possession of sexual images of individuals under 18 illegal"

Side-stepping the "is loli anime child pornography" discussion for a moment, I think it's more interesting to look at the main intent of the bill itself. To outlaw the possession of child pornography. Yeah. Erm. It's 2013. How the fuck is that not already illegal?! >_<

Yeah that is kind of a no-brainer.

 

[Seanspeed]

Citation needed.

That loli porn exists? I dont understand what you're asking here.

There are laws when it involves real victims. Those are the indicators that we don't tolerate such abhorrent behvaiour. The sexual assault of a real person is illegal, but fictional depictions like a rape fantasy video or erotic fiction is not. Hate or racially motivated crimes against a real person is illegal, but fictional depictions are not.

Well like I said, what I'm saying is an idealistic view. Personally, I think rape porn should be illegal, too. The vast majority of people who watch it are probably not going to enact anything they see, but we shouldn't pretend there aren't deviants out there who will. Its extremely hard for there to be any valid studies about this kind of thing.

With things like underage sex and rape, I dont see the harm in the government sending a message that this stuff is to be discouraged, which includes fantasy depictions of it.

Thats pretty much the extent of my view on it and I'm tired so I'm going to sleep now. I see there's quite a few people responding to me, so I apologize if I single-handedly kill this topic by leaving, but anyways, its been nice discussing it.

 

[injurai]

"Currently, possessing child pornography is not illegal in Japan so long as the owner is not selling, distributing, or creating the images. The amendment would make possession of sexual images of individuals under 18 illegal"

Side-stepping the "is loli anime child pornography" discussion for a moment, I think it's more interesting to look at the main intent of the bill itself. To outlaw the possession of child pornography. Yeah. Erm. It's 2013. How the fuck is that not already illegal?! >_<

People wanted to argue that it's not worth getting these laws passed if an extension to hand drawn content is being extended with it. It really should be illegal hands down.

 

[Risette]

Personally, I think violent games should be illegal, too. The vast majority of people who play them are probably not going to enact anything they see, but we shouldn't pretend there aren't deviants out there who will.

 

[cameron]

Are there laws banning people who look underage from doing porn?
What about a drawing of a mature looking woman labeled as being underage?

With the former, the appearance of the actress is taken into consideration in Australia:
http://www.somebodythinkofthechildren.com/classification-board-responds-to-small-breasts-ban/

It's from 2010, so I don't know if it's still true.

People wanted to argue that it's not worth getting these laws passed if an extension to hand drawn content is being extended with it. It really should be illegal hands down.

Who was that?

 

[rpmurphy]

"Currently, possessing child pornography is not illegal in Japan so long as the owner is not selling, distributing, or creating the images. The amendment would make possession of sexual images of individuals under 18 illegal"

Side-stepping the "is loli anime child pornography" discussion for a moment, I think it's more interesting to look at the main intent of the bill itself. To outlaw the possession of child pornography. Yeah. Erm. It's 2013. How the fuck is that not already illegal?! >_<

With bills like these, it seems like they're just not really serious about the issue.

 

[Ratrat]

"Currently, possessing child pornography is not illegal in Japan so long as the owner is not selling, distributing, or creating the images. The amendment would make possession of sexual images of individuals under 18 illegal"

Side-stepping the "is loli anime child pornography" discussion for a moment, I think it's more interesting to look at the main intent of the bill itself. To outlaw the possession of child pornography. Yeah. Erm. It's 2013. How the fuck is that not already illegal?! >_<

Apparently illegal in Kyoto and Nara prefecture.

 

[meltingparappa]

Personally, I think rape porn should be illegal, too.

Worth pointing out that the main difference between rape porn and rape is only one of them involves an actual rape.

Seems like you wouldn't want to trivialize one by equating it with the other.

 

[duckroll]

With bills like these, it seems like they're just not really serious about the issue.

Well, Japanese politicians aren't very serious about their jobs to begin with. Just ask the Osaka mayor about his views on sex slaves in WW2!

 

[injurai]

Who was that?

Ferrio, who did bring up good points. I just don't agree with delaying this legislation for the sake of logical arguments over what art and freedom of expression entail within these vague boundaries.

 

[Risette]

Ferrio, who did bring up good points. I just don't agree with delaying this legislation for the sake of logical arguments over what art and freedom of expression entail within these vague boundaries.

You don't think freedom of expression is worth protecting...?

 

[HomerSimpson-Man]

"Currently, possessing child pornography is not illegal in Japan so long as the owner is not selling, distributing, or creating the images. The amendment would make possession of sexual images of individuals under 18 illegal"

Side-stepping the "is loli anime child pornography" discussion for a moment, I think it's more interesting to look at the main intent of the bill itself. To outlaw the possession of child pornography. Yeah. Erm. It's 2013. How the fuck is that not already illegal?! >_<

Holy shit. Child pornography wasn't illegal in Japan?! WTF?

 

[Horse Detective]

The main question here is if discouraging it is actually something that would be successful. Regardless of any of our opinions regarding what art is.

 

[Seanspeed]

Personally, I think violent games should be illegal, too. The vast majority of people who play them are probably not going to enact anything they see, but we shouldn't pretend there aren't deviants out there who will.

I did go over the difference in intent between making a violent video game and making child porn earlier, but ya know, I'll at least give you that you're making a borderline-constructive point finally.

Good job. And good night.

 

[Femmeworth]

Holy shit. Child pornography wasn't illegal in Japan?! WTF?

Distribution was legal until 1999. How active the industry was, I don't know.

Edit: Here's an article from 1997. http://www.csmonitor.com/1997/0402/040297.intl.intl.1.html

 

[CornBurrito]

Holy shit. Child pornography wasn't illegal in Japan?! WTF?

Creating child porn (with real children) was very much illegal.

Possessing it was not.

 

[Vermillion]

Cannibalism: the purest form of love.

How can you say you love her when you won't even eat her

 

[Risette]

I did go over the difference in intent between making a violent video game and making child porn earlier, but ya know, I'll at least give you that you're making a borderline-constructive point finally.

It's not my fault you don't know the difference between a painting and an art movement.

 

[injurai]

You don't think freedom of expression is worth protecting...?

I do. But there are lines that have to be drawn, and inches that have to be given. Granted all that moe pandering will still be their. And erotic mature mangas will exist, and all legal avenues for those of age. But this is strictly dealing with cp, and instances involve the underaged. Now I do believe that loli stuff is a victimless crime, and should be treated as such. And I think those who consume it should be treated like humans. and the Artists that create such have the right to create it. But, there is no reason for it to be legal to own the real thing. If this passes the lines will continue to be grey on what is ok and isn't, and that will be sorted out going forward. But things like this should be illegal. It is just disgusting that such are allowed. And I'm not talking about all your funzie smutty lewd mangas. Whatever enjoy those. But involving actual people is awful and that needs to stop immediately.

 

[Haly]

How can you say you love her when you won't let her eat you.

Fixed.

@injurai: I think Risette is talking solely about drawn stuff.

 

[FelixOrion]

That loli porn exists? I dont understand what you're asking here.

Sorry. I was questioning the idea that just because it exist and is not illegal that it will create a some subculture that is somehow dangerous enough to actual people.

 

[Risette]

I do. But there are lines that have to be drawn, and inches that have to be given. Granted all that moe pandering will still be their. And erotic mature mangas will exist, and all legal avenues for those of age. But this is strictly dealing with cp, and instances involve the underaged. Now I do believe that loli stuff is a victimless crime, and should be treated as such. And I think those who consume it should be treated like humans. and the Artists that create such have the right to create it. But, there is no reason for it to be legal to own the real thing. If this passes the lines will continue to be grey on what is ok and isn't, and that will be sorted out going forward. But things like this should be illegal. It is just disgusting that such are allowed. And I'm not talking about all your funzie smutty lewd mangas. Whatever enjoy those. But involving actual people is awful and that needs to stop immediately.

Right, but politicians trying to censor the stuff that doesn't involve real people is concerning too.

There are no lines to be drawn with something that doesn't harm people.

 

[Deified Data]

Ferrio, who did bring up good points. I just don't agree with delaying this legislation for the sake of logical arguments over what art and freedom of expression entail within these vague boundaries.

The boundaries are clear as day. One side victimizes children and the other side victimizes no one.

 

[injurai]

Right, but politicians trying to censor the stuff that doesn't involve real people is concerning too.

I totally get that, especially if it could be a safe alternative. Kind of how Portugal has decriminalized all drugs. But the thing is, politics never happen cleanly. Sometimes things just have to progress in a rough fashion and get hammered out later. It's the same problem with the US do nothing congress. They try to perfect all the details the first time. The fact of the matter is that the prime reason for this legislation is a good thing, and will not be left up to questioning. Now on the side of any sort of medium that uses such content as a form of pornography or used as a propelling component in a mature narrative, that will surely remain ambiguous for a while to come, given the existing industries that exist in Japan. To defend against this legislation is tasteless, to warn about some of the accompanying slippery slopes is wise though. Too many people get caught up on the single answers to all of this, and need to realize that things just don't work out well. So any true "solution" that gets discussed has to be an imperfect one. Otherwise it's just all inane rhetoric.

 

[injurai]

The boundaries are clear as day. One side victimizes children and the other side victimizes no one.

I was talking about the boundaries that exist solely in the drawn medium. Of course the real vs fake boundaries is crystal clear.

 

[Ferrio]

I was talking about the boundaries that exist solely in the drawn medium. Of course the real vs fake boundaries is crystal clear.

Then why not actually make that distinction in the law, instead of leaving it as one big ass grey area?

 

[Deified Data]

I was talking about the boundaries that exist solely in the drawn medium. Of course the real vs fake boundaries is crystal clear.

There are no boundaries. It's all manufactured and victimless.

 

[Galang]

About fucking time Japan.

Remember this thread?

Disturbing

 

[injurai]

Then why not actually make that distinction in the law, instead of leaving it as one big ass grey area?

Probably because law makers like ambiguation where they can stretch the power of legislation to their will at a later time on a case by case basis.

There are no boundaries. It's all manufactured and victimless.

You completely missed what ever I was saying, or I poorly said it. I'm talking about the continuum of anime for wholesome down to smutty and into loli territory. About the boundary of what is artistic and ok, and what would be considered simulated cp.

Of course that is victimless, but you do realize that the legislation deals with the real thing too. It's not all victimless, just the virtual side is, which is what I was specifically talking about when mentioning the boundaries. Because in Japan it is vague as to what form of ero material would end up illegal under this legislation.