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[Horse Detective]

Mass murder?

Nice job lol.

 

[ajim]

I was in Japan recently and was walking through akihabara,and came across a store that was 5 levels high dedicated to porn. No complaints.

However, the entire first floor was filled with underage models im sexual movies/books - thousands of videos and Mags, dedicated to young boys and girls, white, Japanese etc.

Was crazy. I felt lightheaded walking around, especially seeing all the guys and even women browsing and buying.

 

[Devolution]

I was in Japan recently and was walking through akihabara,and came across a store that was 5 levels high dedicated to porn. No complaints.

However, the entire first floor was filled with underage models im sexual movies/books - thousands of videos and Mags, dedicated to young boys and girls, white, Japanese etc.

Was crazy. I felt lightheaded walking around, especially seeing all the guys and even women browsing and buying.

Sexual interest in people who can't even get preggers. Found the problem.

 

[LightofRohan]

Still baffles my mind that you can be arrested for possesing a video or a picture. Makes you wonder why child abuse, death, murder, injuries videos arent "illegal" either. As well as regular death, cruelty, abuse, illegal substance, murder, killing, torture, animal cruelty videos. People just get so uncomfortable about the sexual part of it that they have to make it a legal action...

Just seems too close to a thought crime to me and makes me feel weird that people are so excepting of that. And no, I'm not a "loli" lover or whatever, since that's a popular defense for people to proclaim if anyone second guesses these laws.

I'm more about going after the child molestors and rapists. And hiding the videos don't make it any easier to find those scumbags.

 

[patapuf]

Still baffles my mind that you can be arrested for possesing a video or a picture. Makes you wonder why child abuse, death, murder, injuries videos arent "illegal" either. As well as regular death, cruelty, abuse, illegal substance, murder, killing, torture, animal cruelty videos. People just get so uncomfortable about the sexual part of it that they have to make it a legal action...

Just seems too close to a thought crime to me and makes me feel weird that people are so excepting of that. And no, I'm not a "loli" lover or whatever, since that's a popular defense for people to proclaim if anyone second guesses these laws.

I'm more about going after the child molestors and rapists. And hiding the videos don't make it any easier to find those scumbags.

i see the grey area with drawings.

But real pictures/videos are rightly banned imo. Consuming them enables the distribution/production of the content.

Unless you are a teenager yourself there's really no reason to have such pictures on your PC anyway.

 

[mrklaw]

Seriously? Seriously? 15 year old who looks 20 is still 15, still has the mindset of a 9th grader, is very young minded and easily manipulated. When's the last time you met an 8th grader, heard them speak and said "yeah, that's a mature adult who is emotionally, mentally and socially developed enough to make sexual decisions without being used or being caught at the losing end of a misuse of trust and power."?

Most 14 year olds are hella awkward and barely out of their training bras, despite what the "lolita" media tropes would have you believe.

physical attraction only. Girls are starting physical development earlier and earlier, and average breast size is increasing. And they are marketed with more grown-up clothes, makeup etc. You end up with girls looking physically older than 10-20 years ago. Combined with the age of consent going up from historical averages. It is a difficult combination.

 

[Toxi]

Still baffles my mind that you can be arrested for possesing a video or a picture. Makes you wonder why child abuse, death, murder, injuries videos arent "illegal" either. As well as regular death, cruelty, abuse, illegal substance, murder, killing, torture, animal cruelty videos. People just get so uncomfortable about the sexual part of it that they have to make it a legal action...

Just seems too close to a thought crime to me and makes me feel weird that people are so excepting of that. And no, I'm not a "loli" lover or whatever, since that's a popular defense for people to proclaim if anyone second guesses these laws.

I'm more about going after the child molestors and rapists. And hiding the videos don't make it any easier to find those scumbags.

Because there's a market for it and it hurts children. People buying child pornography encourages the market which hurts children. Snuff films aren't really a problem in the same way because there isn't a real demand for them.

By making it illegal to even possess child pornography, the market gets strangled more because customers are less willing to buy it. Illicit child pornography still exists even with it being illegal, but putting customers under the radar will hopefully stop them from buying in the first place, and there's no point in child pornography if you can't sell it to anyone.

Having a no-compromise attitude is silly here when the law only punishes people who are supporting a business that sexually abuses children.

Spoiler

(Except for the anime bit, that part's pretty silly and unnecessary.)

 

[Irminsul]

Still baffles my mind that you can be arrested for possesing a video or a picture. Makes you wonder why child abuse, death, murder, injuries videos arent "illegal" either. As well as regular death, cruelty, abuse, illegal substance, murder, killing, torture, animal cruelty videos. People just get so uncomfortable about the sexual part of it that they have to make it a legal action...

Well, I guess the main difference is that pictures or videos of (real) murders or injuries are usually not taken to "entertain" the audience, but just for documentation. At least the act of injuring or murdering is not done to take pictures of it. That's different with child pornography. I'm not sure whether snuff films are legal or not, but I guess they're not.

Your argument does hold w.r.t. fictional depiction (e.g., drawings), though.

 

[LightofRohan]

Because there's a market for it and it hurts children. People buying child pornography encourages the market which hurts children. Snuff films aren't really a problem in the same way because there isn't a real demand for them.

By making it illegal to even possess child pornography, the market gets strangled more because customers are less willing to buy it. Illicit child pornography still exists even with it being illegal, but putting customers under the radar will hopefully stop them from buying in the first place, and there's no point in child pornography if you can't sell it to anyone.

Having a no-compromise attitude is silly here when the law only punishes people who are supporting a business that sexually abuses children.

Spoiler

(Except for the anime bit, that part's pretty silly and unnecessary.)

I think you are over estimating this market and profitability. There are not too many businesses that are funded entirely by child rape videos and the majority of them are homemade by psychos' who do it because they are psychos', not to increase their view count. And making something illegal to sell is not the same as illegal to view. I'm not saying this shit should be put on youtube or even allowed on websites. But it is still insane that you can destroy ones life through a picture that the person has no association with.

And then by that logic all abuse/murder/cruelty videos should be illegal as well. Why only sexual?

Well, I guess the main difference is that pictures or videos of (real) murders or injuries are usually not taken to "entertain" the audience, but just for documentation. At least the act of injuring or murdering is not done to take pictures of it. That's different with child pornography. I'm not sure whether snuff films are legal or not, but I guess they're not.

Your argument does hold w.r.t. fictional depiction (e.g., drawings), though.

Have you ever seen any of those websites that glorify/make light of death, killing and even rape? A lot of those are there to validate some sick peoples pleasures. It's horrible and appalling that people watch those videos and even make jokes on them, but throwing them in jail and destroying their entire lives because of that? Seems nuts to me

 

[casabolg]

I think it's fine with just a social stigma against it.

 

[Jubern]

I was in Japan recently and was walking through akihabara,and came across a store that was 5 levels high dedicated to porn. No complaints.

However, the entire first floor was filled with underage models im sexual movies/books - thousands of videos and Mags, dedicated to young boys and girls, white, Japanese etc.

Was crazy. I felt lightheaded walking around, especially seeing all the guys and even women browsing and buying.

Each time I come across shops like this in Akiba, or go to anime/manga shops with floors like this, I feel really uncomfortable. Yet, I see that I'm the only one feeling like that around the place which makes it even more akward.

One of the guys that moved in the same students dorm as me here, last September, is big on lolis and such and was bragging about buying hentai dojinshis with clearly underage characters. The guy is cool and we have pretty similar interests, but christ.

I mean, fuck, you probably don't get more "weeaboo" than me (love manga, anime, games, giant robots, learn Japanese and got so invested I'm living here with the intent of staying for an undetermined amount of time), but this is something I can't really come to terms with.

 

[Irminsul]

Have you ever seen any of those websites that glorify/make light of death, killing and even rape? A lot of those are there to validate some sick peoples pleasures. It's horrible and appalling that people watch those videos and even make jokes on them, but throwing them in jail and destroying their entire lives because of that? Seems nuts to me

Well, the difference is, with the exception of actual snuff films, the videos are independent of the act itself. A person being killed would be killed regardless of whether the act is filmed or not.

That said, I do sympathise with the idea that at least possession shouldn't be illegal. Creation, of course, distribution as well, but not possession. But I'm not quite sure that this is really a good idea.

 

[encephalon]

I think it's fine with just a social stigma against it.

There is clearly not enough of one in Japan.

 

[scar tissue]

So who is being harmed here? Because lolicon keeps pedophiles off of real child pornography, where children are actually harmed.

Yeah this.
Pedophilia is a sexual orientation that probably can't be changed, and any pedophile is going to want some kind of sexual release.
Might as well legalize the one type that doesn't harm anyone, or else they might turn to the worse ones.

 

[Shaanyboi]

GOOD.

 

[Marmaladefire]

Well, I just meant physical attraction. I don't agree with the notion that that someone that much older should be with someone 14 or 15. At 16 however, the age gap can be lessened I think. And many in their 20's aren't "socially and mentally developed" enough either...like physical appearance, mental matureness varies heavily between 15-21.

That's true, but to say that thinking pornography featuring 14-15 year olds being illegal is "heresy" is to say that you agree with minors in junior high school being taken advantage of for the sake of a bunch of creepy old men to jack off to.

physical attraction only. Girls are starting physical development earlier and earlier, and average breast size is increasing. And they are marketed with more grown-up clothes, makeup etc. You end up with girls looking physically older than 10-20 years ago. Combined with the age of consent going up from historical averages. It is a difficult combination.

The fact that many girls are going through early puberty (not really a good thing), bust increases and the beauty and fashion industries sexualizing girls of younger and younger ages (mostly so they can exploit 14 year old Russian models without remorse) are not the problem of the girls and young women. The age of consent (which is no higher than 18 anywhere as far as I know) has been set because of scientific research into decision making and the development of teenage brains. The drinking age wasn't always 21 in the US either.

Society is pushing sexualization onto young girls, then blaming them for pushing the boundaries of their sexuality if they so choose to do so, or even worse blaming their bodies, bodies that they are largely uncomfortable in and don't know how to maneuver in yet, for when men cannot control themselves.

 

[Ratrat]

I was in Japan recently and was walking through akihabara,and came across a store that was 5 levels high dedicated to porn. No complaints.

However, the entire first floor was filled with underage models im sexual movies/books - thousands of videos and Mags, dedicated to young boys and girls, white, Japanese etc.

Was crazy. I felt lightheaded walking around, especially seeing all the guys and even women browsing and buying.

By sexual do you mean swimsuits, fetishtic wear? And the non Japanese stuff... Where does that get made I wonder.

 

[Zaptruder]

Yeah this.
Pedophilia is a sexual orientation that probably can't be changed, and any pedophile is going to want some kind of sexual release.
Might as well legalize the one type that doesn't harm anyone, or else they might turn to the worse ones.

No! It's digusting! Anything to do with child porn, including your thoughts on it should be made illegal and any pedophiles or would be pedos should be guantanamoed!

/1stpageofthread.

 

[Lord Ghirahim]

No! It's digusting! Anything to do with child porn, including your thoughts on it should be made illegal and any pedophiles or would be pedos should be guantanamoed!

/1stpageofthread.

I know someone who has said things exactly like that. He's also a drunk driver, which would make him an actual real world criminal with potential real life victims. Asshole went on and on about how he had to pay $1k to get his car back too. I guess his SSRIs don't have much of an effect on stupidity and psychopathy.

 

[JustRiffled]

I was in Japan recently and was walking through akihabara,and came across a store that was 5 levels high dedicated to porn. No complaints.

However, the entire first floor was filled with underage models im sexual movies/books - thousands of videos and Mags, dedicated to young boys and girls, white, Japanese etc.

Was crazy. I felt lightheaded walking around, especially seeing all the guys and even women browsing and buying.

It really is strangely fascinating. The porttrayal of porn in comparsion to the west too.

In particular those thick as a phonebook h-manga magazines. They are usually 200 or more pages for or so 5 bucks, and have deticated pornographic drawings of every fetish imaginable.

And how it's presented too, like usually western porn is all "dark" and "gritty" if you know what I mean. But japanese porn by it's DVD covers and mags is all unicolored, lighthearted and whimsical presented.

The sheer amount of it, and how it all goes back to the 80's is just baffling tbh

 

[Ooccoo]

The gif on the first page of this thread is very disturbing in a funny way

 

[Ikael]

And again, this is the same argument against violent video games and movies. They normalize such behavior. And studies have actually shown that people are more aggressive after watching violent things and more desensitized to it. Do you support a ban on violent games?

This, pretty much. Victimless crimes are no crimes at all, but rather the result of people with dire need of feeling morally superior getting a hold into lawmaking.

 

[Wings 嫩翼翻せ]

There's so much to say to this, but I'll just simplify my thoughts into one clause:

The fuck?

 

[polyh3dron]

does that mean we will get more STATE OF THE ART JAPANESE ANIMATION?

one can only hope.

But seriously, making loli moe kawaii uguu~ shit illegal will just make it more sought after. I'd say give it some time and some other trend will come along.

 

[Globox_82]

I am for freedom of expression and all that stuff, but you have to draw a line at some point. Loli and other perverted underage porn is a big NO in my book. Didn't know it was legal in Japan. Weird.

 

[Kenka]

There's so much to say to this, but I'll just simplify my thoughts into one clause:

The fuck?

The thread you mean or the law, or the proposal or the arrest ?

 

[patapuf]

one can only hope.

But seriously, making loli moe kawaii uguu~ shit illegal will just make it more sought after. I'd say give it some time and some other trend will come along.

That stuff won't be illegal. At most, you will get less fanservicey "panty shots" and the like.

It's the actual loli hentai stuff that will be forbidden.

 

[Chairmanchuck]

Whenever I try to look for some JAV, there are also DVDs with children in some swimsuits, making sexy poses and sucking on bananas and such things...
Just disgusting and cant even understand the people watching such shit.

Before they forbid fictional loli-hentai, they should first forbid these kind of movies...

 

[ABC]

I am for freedom of expression and all that stuff, but you have to draw a line at some point.

No you don't. It's art and it doesn't matter what you think about it.

And if you want to draw arbitrary lines, why not draw it at murder of fictional people and start to persecute the people who enjoy that?

 

[Chainsawkitten]

I am for freedom of expression and all that stuff, but you have to draw a line at some point. Loli and other perverted underage porn is a big NO in my book. Didn't know it was legal in Japan. Weird.

That's the thing about freedom of expression, though. If you draw a line (short of stuff that actively harms someone), it's no longer freedom of expression. You don't have to draw any line at all.

 

[daniels]

I am for freedom of expression and all that stuff, but you have to draw a line at some point. Loli and other perverted underage porn is a big NO in my book. Didn't know it was legal in Japan. Weird.

awww bad drawings make you feel weird yeah THATS the line for freedom of expression -_-°

 

[JustRiffled]

Whenever I try to look for some JAV, there are also DVDs with children in some swimsuits, making sexy poses and sucking on bananas and such things...

really, I thought that would be illegal already...

it's strange how stuff like that in Japan is avaible physically. underground stuff is mostly avaible on whatever secret torrent sites on the internet

 

[MaschinenZimmer]

Are there laws banning people who look underage from doing porn?
What about a drawing of a mature looking woman labeled as being underage?

In Germany, since 2009, yes.

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scheinminderjährigkeit

and

http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meld...en-den-Begriff-Jugendpornographie-215157.html

Sorry, I don't have an English version. In short: if the actor (or comic character, doesn't matter) LOOKS underage, it is classified as Jugendpornographie (Youth Porn?), funny thing is that you can get the same punishment as for cp, if the police somehow caught you. In reality this means that all "just 18/teeny" porn is de facto illegal in Germany, of course this only applies to the new stuff, the old stuff can still be sold (Yes, it makes no sense).

 

[Chairmanchuck]

really, I thought that would be illegal already...

it's strange how stuff like that in Japan is avaible physically. underground stuff is mostly avaible on whatever secret torrent sites on the internet

Seems not. They even seem to use these "massage"-things in those videos. Of course only for "massage".

Everything they do is just implied.
Instead of sucking a ****, the suck on bananas.
Instead of having sex, they pose in sexual positions.
Instead of being naked, they wear revealing bikinis...


Another german Kaiji-Fan. Guter Geschmack

 

[MaschinenZimmer]

Another german Kaiji-Fan. Guter Geschmack

Gleichfalls!.

 

[Tacitus_]

In Germany, since 2009, yes.

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scheinminderjährigkeit

and

http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meld...en-den-Begriff-Jugendpornographie-215157.html

Sorry, I don't have an English version. In short: if the actor (or comic character, doesn't matter) LOOKS underage, it is classified as Jugendpornographie (Youth Porn?), funny thing is that you can get the same punishment as for cp, if the police somehow caught you. In reality this means that all "just 18/teeny" porn is de facto illegal in Germany, of course this only applies to the new stuff, the old stuff can still be sold (Yes, it makes no sense).

I wonder if they'd bust you for having a Little Lupe movie. One dude got busted in South America when the border agents thought that her DVD was CP. The actress heard of this and flew down there to set her fan free

 

[JustRiffled]

Seems not. They even seem to use these "massage"-things in those videos. Of course only for "massage".

Everything they do is just implied.
Instead of sucking a ****, the suck on bananas.
Instead of having sex, they pose in sexual positions.
Instead of being naked, they wear revealing bikinis...

wtf man, is that how they get buy to selling that stuff in stores?

Jesus

 

[ajim]

By sexual do you mean swimsuits, fetishtic wear? And the non Japanese stuff... Where does that get made I wonder.

sexually suggestive poses in swimsuits, bikinis, costumes, high heels, camel toes etc. It was all quite overwhelming, especially when considering the sheer amount of it in store and the people browsing and buying.

The non Japanese stuff looked like its from the US based off the branding, but that's just a wild guess!

 

[JustRiffled]

sexually suggestive poses in swimsuits, bikinis, costumes, high heels, camel toes etc. It was all quite overwhelming, especially when considering the sheer amount of it in store and the people browsing and buying.

Honestly I thought that stuff would be banned already by the incident in the 80's, were a mass murderer was arrested, and they found his room full of kiddy porn and hentai

 

[daniels]

Honestly I thought that stuff would be banned already by the incident in the 80's, were a mass murderer was arrested, and they found his room full of kiddy porn and hentai

Yeah i dont get why hentai is in the same sentence as kiddy porn or in the sentence at all what are you trying to Insinuate?

 

[Chainsawkitten]

Honestly I thought that stuff would be banned already by the incident in the 80's, were a mass murderer was arrested, and they found his room full of kiddy porn and hentai

You mean Tsutomu Miyazaki? The stuff he had (well, some of it) was anime (not necessarily hentai) and slasher films, not child porn (with the possible exception of the videos of the victims he took himself; I don't know the nature of those). He also had a huge video collection of which only some stuff was anime or slasher films.

 

[Chairmanchuck]

sexually suggestive poses in swimsuits, bikinis, costumes, high heels, camel toes etc. It was all quite overwhelming, especially when considering the sheer amount of it in store and the people browsing and buying.

The non Japanese stuff looked like its from the US based off the branding, but that's just a wild guess!

Thats why I nveer understand, why some japanese politicians wanna censor or ban fictional hentai-lolicon whatever porn, but wont ban these child/teenage gravure-idols...

 

[Mammoth Jones]

Possession of child pornography featuring real children is a terrible thing, but I've yet to see a convincing argument for why porn featuring drawn fictional children should be illegal to possess. Most arguments are slippery slope fallacy, which is a fallacy and thus not a good argument. The ones that aren't that are "it will lead them to fuck real children" which is unsubstantiated as far as I know.

Lusting after children and having sexual fantasies about kids is as wrong as it gets.
Anything that aids that is pretty wrong.

And of course it's unsubstantiated not like we are gonna get accurate info from a pedophile.

 

[G.O.O.]

If it can make them feel better.

 

[Irminsul]

Lusting after children and having sexual fantasies about kids is as wrong as it gets.

And it's genetic. So tough luck?

 

[Ushae]

This is good news, by the way what the flying fuck is a loli? O.O

 

[daniels]

Lusting after children and having sexual fantasies about kids is as wrong as it gets.
Anything that aids that is pretty wrong.

And of course it's unsubstantiated not like we are gonna get accurate info from a pedophile.

So what exactly is the difference between you wanting to ban and sentence people for drawings and all the other people that want to ban random stuff? What kind of argument do you have now against for example jack thompson or any other old fart that wants to ban violent video games, movies (to many to count), music, porn (look barely 18 in a school girl outfit), books (Lolita) and a bunch of other stuff that routinely crosses the line from acceptable into disgusting and is constantly blamed in the media?

 

[tino]

Can they make law that reintroduce Aera 88 type anime again?

There are even new middle east conflicts to inspire the new series.

 

[Tacitus_]

This is good news, by the way what the flying fuck is a loli? O.O

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lolita

 

[Parakeetman]

Im surprised no one posted this yet.

Japanese govt being the Japanese govt. We got a ton of other more important shit to worry about that doodles digital or on paper. Guess they gotta keep dem aging voters happy, since they are the only fucksticks who keep putting these idiots back in office again and again and again.