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Kingdom Hearts 3 is now using Unreal Engine 4

Famassu

Member
Sep 11, 2010
16,035
1
0
Nomura's looking more and more like one of the weakest links in a pretty bad chain...
Eh. Not only has Nomura crated one of the company's most successful franchises since FF & DQ, he's been more or less creatively involved with many of their best games during last & current gen (Birth By Sleep & Dream Drop Distance., TWEWY, Dissidia, Type-0, Theatrhythm etc.) and he's the kind of person who likes to push new talent & give them room to bring their own ideas in. Games like TWEWY wouldn't be what they are without Nomura. To shit on Nomura is pretty low, considering all he has done for the company. We know a lot of FFXV's problems have nothing to do with Nomura and even with the rest we can only speculate (was Nomura pushed out because he got nothing done, which I find somewhat hard to believe, or because he didn't want to make the kind of changes into FFXV that some higher-ups were asking of him?).

'Kingdom Shader'...HAHAH
Yeah whatever, SE.
Wasn't that just kind of referencing their intent of having different looks for different worlds with the use of shaders? That could still be in despite the engine change.

HAHA. Might as well call Luminous a FFXV-custom engine.
They are, aren't they? They admitted that the Luminous team was integrated as a part of the FFXV team and Luminous, from that point forward, has been developed as a custom engine for FFXV.

Last time they used the Unreal Engine for consoles, the mess known as The Last Remnant happened.

This game is gonna be such a mess technically.
Wasn't it such a mess because Unreal Engine 3's support for Japanese developers was non-existant at the time? Epic has since improved on that front and as the OP says SQEX seems to be getting help for whatever problems they have working directly & closely with Epic. I doubt KHIII will be in any way comparable to how Last Remnant turned out (technically).
 

hateradio

The Most Dangerous Yes Man
Dec 6, 2008
23,505
0
0
LA, California
animalcollective.org
I don't know why they didn't keep at it with UE3, since they managed to make a competent game (The Last Remnant) quite easily and in a short amount of time. Yes it didn't come out for the PS3 and the 360 version was buggy, but on PC it's pretty great. If they stayed the course, they would have been making a lot of cool games by now.

I wonder if this means that they'll port The Last Remnant. :p



Personally, I see this as an all-around net positive for SE. The less engines they create, the more games they can make. ;p
 

Labadal

Member
Aug 31, 2010
11,858
155
955
This company is in shambles. I don't know how much money the have put down the drain on failed engines. They might as well use third party engines for all their games.

On the other hand, I am not surprised that KHIII will use another engine that is not Luminous. They seem to still have issues with Final Fantasy XV and rendering, so Kingdom Hearts III having rendering issues should not be a surprise.

They really have shit the bed in later years. At least they gout four games out of Chrystal Tools.
 

Famassu

Member
Sep 11, 2010
16,035
1
0
Kingdom hearts 3 for Linux confirmed.

In all seriousness though, must be a significant decision considering what looks like a lot of time spent making the Luminous engine. I wonder what issues they had with it or what UE4 offered that it couldn't...
Considering the Luminous team was sucked into the FFXV team, I'm thinking a lot of it has to do with the fact that the Luminous team is probably just too busy with FFXV to support the KH team and give them help with whatever problems they might run into. Nomura & the KH team simply can't wait until they are freed up and have to move forward with KHIII's development. Since they can't just twiddle their thumbs and do nothing, it's probably better to do this sooner rather than later.

I don't know why they didn't keep at it with UE3, since they managed to make a competent game (The Last Remnant) quite easily and in a short amount of time. Yes it didn't come out for the PS3 and the 360 version was buggy, but on PC it's pretty great. If they stayed the course, they would have been making a lot of cool games by now.
As I pointed out, UE3 had a pretty problematic start for quite a few Japanese developers because support in Japanese was kinda shitty and there was a language barrier for using the tools in the first place (not only for SQEX, but for the likes of Mistwalker as well). They were probably a bit burned by their first UE3 experience, but IIRC Epic has since improved on that front and even now they seem to be working quite closely with SQEX to help them with their problems.
 

wmlk

Member
Aug 7, 2013
12,280
1
0
Eh. Not only has Nomura crated one of the company's most successful franchises since FF & DQ, he's been more or less creatively involved with many of their best games during last & current gen (Birth By Sleep & Dream Drop Distance., TWEWY, Dissidia, Type-0, Theatrhythm etc.) and he's the kind of person who likes to push new talent & give them room to bring their own ideas in. Games like TWEWY wouldn't be what they are without Nomura. To shit on Nomura is pretty low, considering all he has done for the company. We know a lot of FFXV's problems have nothing to do with Nomura and even with the rest we can only speculate (was Nomura pushed out because he got nothing done, which I find somewhat hard to believe, or because he didn't want to make the kind of changes into FFXV that some higher-ups were asking of him?).

Wasn't that just kind of referencing their intent of having different looks for different worlds with the use of shaders? That could still be in despite the engine change.

They are, aren't they? They admitted that the Luminous team was integrated as a part of the FFXV team and Luminous, from that point forward, has been developed as a custom engine for FFXV.


Wasn't it such a mess because Unreal Engine 3's support for Japanese developers was non-existant at the time? Epic has since improved on that front and as the OP says SQEX seems to be getting help for whatever problems they have working directly & closely with Epic. I doubt KHIII will be in any way comparable to how Last Remnant turned out (technically).

1. Kingdom Shader was straight BS from the beginning and buzzwords, and this proves they probably didn't have anything substantial.
2. Yeah, Ebony-Luminous engine lol
3. Thing is, there's not really a proven track record for UE and SE. That's why I'm lowering my expectations a ton.
 

Sakujou

Banned
Oct 22, 2012
3,867
0
0
huge downer. if square is not even able to pull this, what else could happen? even worse, they fucking developed their luminous or white engine or whatever it was called only to use it for a bunch of uninspired games :(

kingdom hearts wont look good, thats for sure-.-
 

Dark_castle

Junior Member
Jun 25, 2013
9,921
5
550
huge downer. if square is not even able to pull this, what else could happen? even worse, they fucking developed their luminous or white engine or whatever it was called only to use it for a bunch of uninspired games :(

kingdom hearts wont look good, thats for sure-.-

Rime uses Unreal Engine 4, and it's looking gorgeous.
 

Seven Force

Banned
Aug 15, 2010
16,850
0
0
Well, at least they didn't wait until they were balls deep in development before realizing Luminous wasn't exactly working out. At least they know now not to let it completely fuck up their development pipeline (again) like Crystal Tools did for them last gen.

kingdom hearts wont look good, thats for sure-.-

Please. How good it can/will look is mostly dependent on their artists, not the engine. (See: Rime, GGXrd (Which is on Unreal 3)
 

Nohar

Member
Dec 24, 2011
3,967
0
650
I feel like an ingenue... Millions down the drain nonwithstanding (well, that is assuming the FFXIII saga wasn't able to make profitable such engine oh my bad, this engine was only used for FFXIV so far, and, well, there is still FFXV), is it a good thing or a bad thing that they switch to Unreal Engine 4? Will KH3 be a better game or a worse game with it? Well, I read about The Last Remnant, and that UE3 wasn't very accessible at the time for japanese developers, something they seem to have improved for UE4.
 

Plywood

NeoGAF's smiling token!
May 27, 2009
58,613
2
0
kingdom hearts wont look good, thats for sure-.-
Can we not with this? These are all Unreal Engine 3 & 4 games:



















Borderlands 2

Brothers: A Tale of Two Sons

Mirrors Edge, 2008

TERA Online

Mighty No. 9

Monday Night Combat

Yaiba: Ninja Gaiden Z

Magna Carta II

Lost Oddysey

Enslaved: Odyssey to the West

Dungeon Defenders

Crimson Dragon

Alice: Madness Returns


KH3 should and likely will look fantastic.
 

koutoru

Member
Sep 9, 2013
2,552
0
0
I feel like an ingenue... Millions down the drain nonwithstanding (well, that is assuming the FFXIII saga wasn't able to make profitable such engine oh my bad, this engine was only used for FFXIV so far, and, well, there is still FFXV), is it a good thing or a bad thing that they switch to Unreal Engine 4? Will KH3 be a better game or a worse game with it? Well, I read about The Last Remnant, and that UE3 wasn't very accessible at the time for japanese developers, something they seem to have improved for UE4.

They've definitely improved Japanese support over the years. As Nirolak also points out the current state of UE4 support in Japan is actually pretty good.

They also have a Japanese support office now and full Japanese documentation, so you can read everything and Epic can send engineers over all the type who speak your language and work with you to help fulfill your needs.

I expect to see more Japanese devs jump onto UE4 over time as well. Unity is also becoming popular for Indie deves in Japan.
 

Ushojax

Should probably not trust the 7-11 security cameras quite so much
Nov 1, 2009
27,317
0
0
Well at least SE now accept that they wasted most of the last 10 years, in terms of console development.

Hopefully they will start to behave like a game developer again and not spend so much time and money on their own crappy engines that render Lightning's hairstyle just right.
 

Firmus_Anguis

Banned
Jun 18, 2014
566
0
345
I'll take a "wait and see"-approach to all of this. If it looks and plays like a KH-game, who am I to complain?
But it is somewhat worrisome... Anyone know how much they spent on their Luminous engine?
I think they most likely did it to speed up development though.
 

Inuhanyou

Believes Dragon Quest is a franchise managed by Sony
Jul 26, 2014
26,222
2
0
America
Luminous is gone folks, let's just get it out of the way. After FF15 and its sequels, there will no more use for such an engine from them.

kingdom hearts wont look good, thats for sure-.-

Don't be ridiculous. I think a lot of you people don't realize that UE4 is a better engine than any engine SE has ever used for their games, both in terms of its potential and what it can do right now. Not some pipe dream tech demo like what Luminous was proposing.
 
Jul 4, 2013
10,286
0
0
Can we not with this? These are all Unreal Engine 3 & 4 games:



















Borderlands 2

Brothers: A Tale of Two Sons

Mirrors Edge, 2008

TERA Online

Mighty No. 9

Monday Night Combat

Yaiba: Ninja Gaiden Z

Magna Carta II

Lost Oddysey

Enslaved: Odyssey to the West

Dungeon Defenders

Crimson Dragon

Alice: Madness Returns

Borderlands 2

KH3 should and likely will look fantastic.



And now they can just focus on developing the game directly :)
 

chaosblade

Unconfirmed Member
Jul 14, 2009
21,129
1
0
This sounds like a step in the right direction, too bad it took them so long to realize it.
 

LAUGHTREY

Modesty becomes a woman
Mar 19, 2008
7,534
0
0
What kind of work does it take to basically import all that existing work into a new engine? I don't know dick about how it works, but isn't it more or less starting over, as far as graphics and gameplay is concerned?

Design and direction may also have to adapt?
 

RayMaker

Banned
Dec 25, 2012
2,931
1
465
Not only does UE4 have great visuals but it also looks very intuitive to use.

I cant wait when devs get good at using UE4 on the X1/PS4 , I wonder what a 2016/17 UE4 current gen games will look like.

Hopefully they will be close to the Infiltrator demo
 

wmlk

Member
Aug 7, 2013
12,280
1
0
Do people really think that this is good news?

Whatever problems Luminous might have posed for them, I feel like their engineers are familiar enough with their own code to still offer something solid. We haven't really seen buggy messes from Crystal Tools.

The only time we've seen engine related issues from what I recall was with The Last Remnant. That was running on UE3.
 

Foffy

Banned
May 14, 2009
22,563
2
0
What a mess. Why make Luminous as an engine if it appears you made it for just one game?

What puzzles me is within this same company exists the Glacier 2 engine, a pretty solid engine. What's great is they've had plans since it was made to use it in other games, and they actually are. Of course, it's from parts of the company that actually release product...
 

wmlk

Member
Aug 7, 2013
12,280
1
0
This means we should get the game sooner. I for one, cannot wait.

Well, you gotta wait until 2017/2018. Nomura said his team can't really do much work on the playable game itself because of their engine-related problems.
 

RaijinFY

Member
Jun 7, 2005
4,743
34
1,465
37
What a mess. Why make Luminous as an engine if it appears you made it for just one game?

What puzzles me is within this same company exists the Glacier 2 engine, a pretty solid engine. What's great is they've had plans since it was made to use it in other games, and they actually are. Of course, it's from parts of the company that actually release product...

I doubt it's going to be for one game...
 

Hiko

Banned
Jun 19, 2014
1,241
0
0
I'm glad they stopped trying to go further and further down the rabbit hole.

Just stick to middleware and focus your efforts on a timely software release. I have hope this will help move Kingdom Hearts 3 along.

Hopefully we'll get it before 2017.
It won't help anything. They will have problems with whatever they use
 

Inuhanyou

Believes Dragon Quest is a franchise managed by Sony
Jul 26, 2014
26,222
2
0
America
Do people really think that this is good news?

Whatever problems Luminous might have posed for them, I feel like their engineers are familiar enough with their own code to still offer something solid. We haven't really seen buggy messes from Crystal Tools..

AAAAHAHAHAHAHAH. AHAHAHAHAHAH, HAHAHAHA.

-ahem-

Somebody didn't participate in the 14 1.0 beta and initial launch period.

And you actually call FF13-2 and FF13-3's performance "smooth"? You literally cant walk 2 feet without the framerate going into the low 20s. That's called 'engine issues'. The reason being, Crystal tools was a piece of garbage.
 

RPGCrazied

Member
Oct 14, 2007
39,340
655
1,345
Thank god its not releasing on PS3 then, well at least UE 3, it was piss poor on that system. I don't care really though, as long as the game comes out.
 

Perfect Cha0s

Member
Nov 9, 2011
4,298
0
0
Do people really think that this is good news?
Good news for the company? No.

Good news for Kingdom Hearts 3? Yes. Not sure who at SE would call the shots on which engine to use for which game (would Nomura make that call since he's the director?), but while switching to UE4 is basically an admittance of defeat for Luminous, it at least says that they realize it's a problem and that it's better for them to start actually getting games out instead of screwing around with in-house solutions.
 

Tetranet

Member
Apr 1, 2014
879
0
0
Whatever is best for the game, to be honest. If that means Unreal Engine 4 so be it.



Also, all the "I knew it" and "SE is shit" posts in this thread have really gotten old.