I think people are getting a little off track - just because they hire all female directors doesn't mean they'll hire whoever applies. They're still going to have a level of competence required. But that doesn't mean they won't also be giving someone their big break.
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Marvel stays winning: Jessica Jones Hires All Women Directors for Season 2
- Thread starter excelsiorlef
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I think people are getting a little off track - just because they hire all female directors doesn't mean they'll hire whoever applies. They're still going to have a level of competence required. But that doesn't mean they won't also be giving someone their big break.
SchrodingerC
Member
Maybe not Tennant, but I think the lawyer
preserved Hope's aborted fetus
This is something I have kind of a difficult time articulating, but moves like this seem like such safe plays, like it's just someone in charge grabbing low hanging fruit in order to appease people that get impassioned about issues like this with the lowest risk of turning off their primary audience.
Another time I felt this was when they made Sulu gay in the latest Trek movie. Like, I'm all for gays being represented in mainstream media, but making the character gay that was previous portrayed by a gay actor seems like the absolute safest play they could have made for that situation. A braver and I think way more effective way to do this would be to make literally any other main character gay, preferably someone who is known for their machismo like Kirk or Bones. But no, there'd be too much outcry and we can't risk alienating our primary audience by doing something actually daring.
Black Panther is (to my knowledge) the first MCU movie directed by a black director, Ryan Coogler who is fantastic, but why couldn't he have directed Avengers, or Thor? Instead they gave the black man the blackest movie in the franchise. Seems like some executive grabbing low hanging fruit again.
I guess any representation for minorities and marginalized groups in mainstream creative positions is a step in the right direction, so there's no point getting too worked up about it, I just wish things like this came off as much braver steps in leveling the playing field and less like someone checking diversity checkboxes as a PR stint.
Agreed. JJ and Kilgrave's relationship were by far the best parts about the show, every time he was on screen was a delight. The episodes that focused on JJ and Luke Cage were incredibly flat and dull, so they'll have to do something big to bring me back for season 2.
David Tenant
can return as a hallucination, a mental projection, or as part of a contingency plan.
While this is good news if Marvel really wanted to shake things up they'd hire all female directors for the next season of Daredevil or Luke Cage, but we all know that would never happen.
Can you imagine the vitriol coming from the angry 15 year olds on Twitter if Marvel announced that The Punishers episodes were all going to be directed by women? That would take real balls on Marvel's part to do....,
That would be real progress.
Can you imagine the vitriol coming from the angry 15 year olds on Twitter if Marvel announced that The Punishers episodes were all going to be directed by women? That would take real balls on Marvel's part to do....,
That would be real progress.
(white) male directors don't have to be "the best" to qualify for the job over women, black, asian & others, why do women & everyone else have to be exceptionally good to get the job over (white) men?
UnemployedVillain
Member
How is it sketchy? Did I see you complaining about the decades of all white directors? So why is it now that it's suddenly "sketchy"? This is what pisses me off about talking about this. No one seems to care when the people being unfairly advantaged are white, but when it's some minority all of a sudden people have qualms about it.
andythinkpad
Member
Considering the boring ass second half of JJ. These women are sent to die lol.
Dandy Lyin
Member
I'm sure it's a combination of things. Perhaps many women don't bother going to film school because they see so few opportunities available to them post-graduation.
4 is a cutie
Banned
I for one do not believe in gender or race when it comes to talent, hmph!
Hollywood just happens to be full of white men because all of them are talented. That's why all projects helmed by said men are perfect works of art
I feel sorry for the minorities that get 0 opportunities, but they just have prove that they're ultra talented from the jump in order to get work. Oh yeah, they can't get work because it's a gimmick when someone helps them get their foot in the door. Oh well, more white men it is!
Hollywood just happens to be full of white men because all of them are talented. That's why all projects helmed by said men are perfect works of art
I feel sorry for the minorities that get 0 opportunities, but they just have prove that they're ultra talented from the jump in order to get work. Oh yeah, they can't get work because it's a gimmick when someone helps them get their foot in the door. Oh well, more white men it is!
Hiring practices are a big part of the problem. If women don't get directing jobs and visibility for the jobs they do, that won't encourage women to even apply to education that would lead them to becoming directors when it doesn't seem like profession that accommodates female directors well.
When there is an article about how a show only has white male directors or writers, there are always a bunch of counter arguments about how that's just how it is because there are more white male people in the industry.
When there is an article about how a show is specifically going after black or female directors or writers, there is always some backlash or concern about how it mightbe a gimmick or how they might not be the best people for the job.
What people really mean though, is that they are happy with their slice of the world, and don't want any disturbance to that. Why are people always talking about race? I just want to talk about my superheroes without all that social commentary! Am I right?
When there is an article about how a show is specifically going after black or female directors or writers, there is always some backlash or concern about how it mightbe a gimmick or how they might not be the best people for the job.
What people really mean though, is that they are happy with their slice of the world, and don't want any disturbance to that. Why are people always talking about race? I just want to talk about my superheroes without all that social commentary! Am I right?
Dick Justice
Banned
The War Zone movie was directed by a woman. Wouldn't exactly be breaking new ground.
TatteredHat
Member
If they're going to put such an emphasis on the fact that they specifically did this I hope for their sake that S2 turns out well, otherwise it'll be really easy to put the blame on this.
I don't disagree with you but when there is an article about how something is dominated by white males, it's usually coming from an editorial source trying to elicit sentiment for change within the industy. This is an article from Variety featuring a bunch of PR spin from the showrunner and executive producer, which causes it to seem a little more disingenuous.
What if season 2 of JJ had hired all female directors and had it not make headlines at all? I'm sure some editorial news outlet would have eventually caught wind and picked it up and made a congratulatory post about it anyways, but it would have felt much more organic than what we got here.
It isn't PR spin, it was mentioned as part of a panel about diversity in Hollywood at an academic event. You can read about it right here: http://annenberg.usc.edu/events/events/transforming-hollywood-7-diversifying-entertainment
How is it any less organic when journalists push for diversity in Hollywood and stakeholders who work in the industry take the time to talk to students of journalism about how they are addressing such issues by citing examples in their current work?
PuppetSlave
Member
Love the show, stoked we get another season. Like all the marvel series really, still feels so surreal we are getting all these shows and that they are so high quality. Boyhood dream coming to life.
Didn't realize directors in TV shows got switched out that much in the same season of an show.
Is it going to be the same writers as season 1 or are those changed as well?
Didn't realize directors in TV shows got switched out that much in the same season of an show.
Is it going to be the same writers as season 1 or are those changed as well?
Monocle
Member
Arguably, even token diversity (if you want to reduce this to the crudest terms) is important because it creates precedent, which paves the way for larger and bolder strides later on. Look at gay characters in 90s television compared to today.
It had the best critical reception of all Marvel shows. A lot of people really liked it.
The Bookerman
Member
I thought it was boring. Stopped half way.
Spikematic
Member
Rolled my eyes at some of the posts here. Saw those "gimmick" complaint posts coming a mile away. The only reason having only female directors even comes across as a gimmick to some is BECAUSE of lack of diversity. No one blinks an eye if a show has all dude directors. Progress will always be given unflattering labels till this kind of stuff becomes the norm.
In any case, I'm super psyched about a S2 of Jessica Jones. I loved the first season despite it's glaring flaws. Really hope they bring some strong writers on board and make these new 13 episodes more focused and tight. Would also be nice if they stopped making Jessica's power set so inconsistent, that was my biggest complaint about S1. I kinda like the semi-flying power leaps she does as they set her apart from the other three Defenders but they always looked silly on screen. So better special effects and choreography would be great too! Oh, and if they focused more on her being a PI and solving fun cases, that'd be swell!
In any case, I'm super psyched about a S2 of Jessica Jones. I loved the first season despite it's glaring flaws. Really hope they bring some strong writers on board and make these new 13 episodes more focused and tight. Would also be nice if they stopped making Jessica's power set so inconsistent, that was my biggest complaint about S1. I kinda like the semi-flying power leaps she does as they set her apart from the other three Defenders but they always looked silly on screen. So better special effects and choreography would be great too! Oh, and if they focused more on her being a PI and solving fun cases, that'd be swell!
Ah I somehow missed the entire paragraph about this being from a panel discussion and thought it was an interview conducted from the Variety writer. I know Variety is well known for getting a lot of their news direct from production studios themselves and press releases.
Yeah, agreed with that. I don't think this is token diversity, just an example of what I called low hanging fruit diversity. It's an easier thing to assign an all female directorial crew to a show like JJ, which is very female focused show, than it would be to hire one for a more masculine superhero like Luke Cage or Daredevil, though history has shown that women are capable of directing great movies with a masculine tilt (some of my favorites being Point Break, American Psycho and my undisputed, favorite comic book movie of all time, Punisher War Zone).
Reading the comments on that Variety article is proof that even something that's to me seemingly "safe" like this has still drawn the ire of trolls and chauvinists, so I'm probably wrong, and something like this is still a much needed step.
Gordon Shumway
Banned
Good stuff. Hopefully gives some of these directors more work/exposure. Haven't read through the thread but I'm guessing the "best for the job" shit is alive and well in here..lemme go ahead and catch up for some laughs. 😁
karasu
Member
Money, I have no idea if you've ever seen me complain about white people. What a strange question. Do I look white to you? Are you assuming that the choice to have all women directors for a season means they will somehow be minorities? This move will undoubtedly favor white women like every other discussion about female representation in the media.
While it's great that more women will have a chance to add their voice to superhero culture, this is still diversity in a very small box. There is a part of me that can celebrate it, sure. But there is another part of me that thinks it's just as inorganic as what we've always had and not the way things should go moving forward.
I say that while realizing that there is absolutely a problem with the straight white male default. For sure. But at the same time, I don't want women or creators of color etc to only be thrown into neat little partitions where women direct female superheroes and blacks only direct black ones. Kind of like LiQuid! pointed out. Sure the end result is more women working on this one show and that part is good. But it's also tokenism. And that part is not so great. I'm not angry about it or anything, but it doesn't exactly blow me away either. But that's just me. I don't expect anyone to agree or whatever.
What's inherently wrong with things being "inorganic"?
That's exactly what affirmative action is. And it works and is necessary for society to change.
Man, some of the posts in here. Yeah, they probably did go out of their way to select female directors, but that's a good thing. If it happens enough times we'll end up with a much more equal industry where this sort of thing is not news at all; where no one bats an eyelid whether it's a mix, all-male or all-female because in the grander scheme of things there are equal opportunities for everyone.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
I guess too bad it's 13 episodes. They just don't care that everyone thinks their shows are too long.
karasu
Member
Only in the sense that when things are inorganic it can ignore a person's full skill set and put them in a box that's hard to break out of. Like a woman having the perfect treatment for a Hulk movie for example, but assume she never gets to film it because it's outside of the box of "female superhero".
Skellig Gra
Member
Maybe it'll actually be good now.
DeaconKnowledge
Member
Jessica Jones had the best concepts of any of the Marvel TV shows. The problem it had was the same problem all the shows had - too many plotlines.
Honestly, who gave a rat's ass about that soldier guy?
Hopefully these directors will be given more than 6 episodes worth of content to stretch over a 13 episode season.
Honestly, who gave a rat's ass about that soldier guy?
Hopefully these directors will be given more than 6 episodes worth of content to stretch over a 13 episode season.
Messofanego
Banned
Nothing wrong with all black directors. But all white directors is pointless since that's the status quo already.
bryanee
Member
Pretty much this.
Also surprised they're still going with 13 episodes. Jessica Jone's especially suffered because it was dragged out for far too long. Daredevil barely got away with it and I'm yet to watch Luke Cage so I dont know how it works for that show.
User 73706
Banned
"gaf's the only place I see this much hate for Jessica Jones"
Pretty sure we had people relating to Kilgrave more than JJ when it first came out, so this really isn't that surprising
Pretty sure we had people relating to Kilgrave more than JJ when it first came out, so this really isn't that surprising
That's a load of bullshit and you damn well know it.
All this does is give a lot of new female directors a foot in the door. Just because their first work would have been on a female-led tv show doesn't mean they'll be stuck doing female-led work for the rest of their career. It gives them a path to other kinds of work as opposed to, you know, getting no chance at all and having no opportunity to do that Hulk movie.
wesleyshark
Banned
Throughly enjoyed the first season, looking forward to the second. My only concern is them being able to craft/adapt a villain that is on par with Tennant.
Aside from that, I think it's pretty cool that they are going with all female directors.
Aside from that, I think it's pretty cool that they are going with all female directors.
Yea, you're creating hypothetical problems that don't exist.
Like...why are you more worried for these women directors than they are themselves? I'm pretty sure they're happy to take this job and don't need you protect them from their careers being boxed in.
karasu
Member
Way to miss the point entirely. I'm talking about working with Marvel specifically and how Marvel/this genre handles diversity. Why the hell are you assuming that these are going to be new directors just getting their foot in the door? We have no idea how experienced they will be.
That is not what I said! I was talking about how Marvel handles diversity by getting a black dude to direct the black superhero movie and getting women to direct the woman superhero.
BronsonLee
Member
I mean you know Coogler wanted Black Panther right
Like that wasn't 'oh, let's get the black guy' that's 'the guy that did Fruitvale Station and Creed REALLY wants this film'
Like that wasn't 'oh, let's get the black guy' that's 'the guy that did Fruitvale Station and Creed REALLY wants this film'
Why are you assuming these directors will be stuck with only female characters once they're done with JJ S2?
BP and captain Marvel are the first female-led and black-led superhero movies in the MCU. That's why people want a black and a female director on those movies. Doesnt mean, going forward, a director has to be the same gender or race of the lead character to do one of their movies.
Patty Jenkins, the WW director, was originally who Marvel picked for Thor the Dark World and a black director is doing the Flash movie.
karasu
Member
That is not what I am assuming. The dude asked me to clarify a point so I made a hypothetical example. It's a pattern I hope they break.
This is good news. However, I think the show is on an uphill battle to get my interest back for season 2.
David Tennant was fantastic, but he was also the only fantastic part. And now that Kilgrave's suffered an anticlimactic death after being kidnapped and escaping like a million times, I'm not sure if I'm interested in watching more.
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