More like "museum hires all-women curator team to curate the 2017 Women's History Exhibition"
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Marvel stays winning: Jessica Jones Hires All Women Directors for Season 2
- Thread starter excelsiorlef
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More like "museum hires all-women curator team to curate the 2017 Women's History Exhibition"
@ the JJ haters. I like Jessica better than Matt in DD, she's a much more interesting character.Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
It's very interesting watching people struggle with a world that's actually attempting to be equal. To look at 90%+ of directors in popular movies and TV being white men and saying "this is fine" is insane to me. There isn't a genuine attempt at empathizing with whoever exists that doesn't fit into that set mold and how it could kill all their dreams of their future without even a conversation about it.
MHWilliams
Member
I was going to cover this, but Duckroll got it. Essentially, you can quite clearly see a number of white male directors getting their first shot at directing multi-million dollar films, but minority and women directors don't get the same shot.
Seth Grahame-Smith was slated to direct the Flash, despite having never directed a film. Ever. We was later replaced by Rick Famuyiwa (black), who at least had five films under his belt. This is the kind of unequal playing ground that this hiring is attempting to correct.
Right, and I think that job could be done equally well by men and women.
But then we get to the argument about needing to increase the number of female curators of museums, male curators are overrepresented, unique perspectives, we live in an unequal world so we shouldn't treat curators as individuals regardless of sex, and so on and so forth until the thread looks like a "Diversity debate" bingo card. I'm guilty of this too, what with saying to pick the best person and such. It's often the same types of arguments going round and round.
I think we'll have to just agree to disagree on this.
lightskintwin
Banned
Or you could come to terms with why you're making a bad argument.
This guy. It never fails. LOL
Actually considering how most art and art history classes/courses/universities have RIDICULOUSLY more women than men and this proportion is nowhere to be seen in art jobs, an all women team would fit ANY museum
Is it discrimination when 97% of directing jobs go to white males?
lightskintwin
Banned
No, they're obviously the best for the job.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
I'm glad you understand how it feels for a group to be left out.
Now think about the past 100 years vs this one single example for women. What do you see? How do you think women feel? Does your feeling here compare in any way vs the quantity of counter-examples?
Darth Ghandi
Banned
Maybe I didn't make it very clear before, but I don't really have a problem with this argument. I recognize that Hollywood and Netflix have massive global cultural power, and if 90% of that is produced by solely white men, yeah, I agree that's not a good situation. And it's hard to correct for that without deliberately hiring more women and minorities, or at least I can't think of a solution.
My issue is more with saying, you know, that a female-lead show would be better with female directors. That's why I brought up the examples of GRRM and JK Rowling.
Mental Atrophy
Banned
Probably, but not necessarily. When you see that kind of discrepancy it warrants investigating.
styl3s
Member
This is how i feel about it.
I don't care if a show is written, directed and produced by a male, female, white person, black person, asian etc. if that person is doing their job and doing it well fantastic that's all i care about.
I think it's a kind of understandable position to have if you don't at all look at the bigger picture. Yes, it technically is discriminating. But it's with the purpose of balancing out decades of immense discrimination against women in the industry.
MHWilliams
Member
Okay. Let's bite.
How do you determine the best person for the job of directing an episode of television?
The One and Done
Member
I don't care as they are the best fit for their respective episodes.
Sibersk Esto
Banned
This exact conversation came up during the Black Panther director hiring phase.
And when Captain Marvel's director gets announced it'll happen again.
Yep Yep Yep
These "just hire the best person for the job" bullshit arguments always come up when it is a woman or another minority getting to eat.
How come they never come up when Max Landis gets bomb after bomb?
Extra Sauce
Member
Except you can't come up with a better supervillain than Purple Man.
Still going to watch though.
I think there was a little bit more at play in the Gahame-Smith scenario than him being more likely to get an opportunity because he's a white male. WB was using the director's role as a carrot on a stick because they wanted him to do more writing/producing for their movies and television.
Grahame-Smith got the opportunity to direct the same reason Madonna, Johnny Depp, Kevin Spacey, Eddie Murphy, Angelina Jolie, Jodie Foster, Jennifer Anniston, etc have gotten to direct films. The studios wanted something else out of them in return down the road.
lightskintwin
Banned
But that's always the issue, they always make their arguments in vacuums and worse yet will make a horrible analogy or false equivalency because of it.
I think the issue is the systems overwhelmingly favor White male directors in general, regardless of experience.
I doubt anyone truly believes otherwise but I just thought I would clarify the reasons other than "white and has a penis" because it's easy to go down the rabbit hole of misogyny/misandry/rabblerabblerabble when there's more at play in Hollywood than gender.
I don't remember much of a similar commotion when Patty Jenkins landed the Wonder Woman role. I just glanced back at the GAF thread when it was announced. People seemed to be discussing her abilities just like any other director announcement for these comic book films. I think you're just going to have this stink of "best person for the job bullshit" when discussion is about gender identity of the director right out of the gate. That and a bunch of strawmen being burned...
People who want an opportunity who wouldn't usually get it. Everybody isn't good...which is the point of this.
Just_myles
Member
I hope they don't do the baby thing with Luke Cage.
Teeing off heroes for hire would be dope.
Messofanego
Banned
Love this video.
Maybe this will have a Ghostbusters effect and people will defend it for it's bold stance to have an all Females aspect. It that will have internet people fight over the empowerment of woman in the cinema industry and distract us from the fact that the show just isn't very good and isn't worth our time.
People who enjoy seeing diversity in media
People who aren't selfish assholes and care about other people too.
Directing 10-20 hours of television is probably exhausting. The director spends more time with a show/movie than anyone else, and TV has to come together much faster than film.
I agree. No one really remembers about who directed episodes of Breaking Bad of Game of Thrones. The overall season is only remembered for the story. In fact, being given a chance to direct episodes gives new and unheard directors a chance to make their name.
Example: Miguel Sapochnik a directory who made things like Repo Men and did other shows on tv like Housr and Fringe. He directed the stellar Hardhome episode of Game of Thrones last year and it was so good that he was brought back this year to direct the also stellar Battle of the Bastards etc.
It isn't like these directors are given a $300 million dollar movie starring Leonard Dicaprio. It is one episode of a show that will probably have 50 or 6 episodes when done. But the experience and name recognition will help going forward and help with increasing equity amongst directors. Another example, Michelle MacLaren directing Breaking Bad helped her secure Wonder Woman.
MacLaren isn't directing Wonder Woman. Patty Jenkins is.
Ah, I thought she was given it. But I see she left the film over creative differences. Haven't followed much about the DCU with how lacklustre BvS and Suicide Squad were. But the point still stands. These directing opportunities are used as a stepping stone for greater things. Most people watching Jessica Jones won't even notice a director change from episode to episode. But the directors will use the opportunity to learn and grow and get more credits under their belt and get other projects.
The Maverick
Member
Lol at the concern trolling in here. Those women are just as qualified as anyone else. I know I'm in for some BS when the "hire the best person for the job" line comes up.
Anyways, here's hoping the writing is better than season 1. JJ is the weakest Marvel show so far. More procedural stuff, more content, less of Jessica moping around please.
Anyways, here's hoping the writing is better than season 1. JJ is the weakest Marvel show so far. More procedural stuff, more content, less of Jessica moping around please.
MHWilliams
Member
Do you honestly put Grahame-Smith up against those names and their Hollywood portfolios before they were offered directorial debuts?
Come on now.
Messofanego
Banned
No one? Plenty of people remember who's directed certain great episodes or attribute a style to them, and expect great things from them. When those directors win awards for certain episodes, people recognise their names. Here's just one example: Cary Fukunaga, his latest film Beasts Of No Nation was advertised as it being from the "award winning director of True Detective".
I was speaking more towards Grahame-Smith's history of directing compared to those names, which was equal before they received their gigs.
Fine. Put Grahame-Smith in the same category as Max Landis, Diablo Cody, Brad Ingelsby, Mark Heyman, Kimberly Barrante, April Prosser, Hernany Perla, Christina Hodson, and plenty of other writers and producers of various genders and ethnicities that end up being offered directing and producing gigs by Hollywood as a carrot on a stick to work on other things.
Discotheque
Banned
You know that's a very different situation from other tv shows. True Detective was basically one long movie, directed and written by the same people throughout
other flicks aren't putting "from one of the directors of breaking bad and game of thrones" haha.
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
It should. Every movie should hire the best for their vision, even if the vision is having an all female or black cast. It's all cool when done right, and cynical when done to make a point, like Yahoo firing male staff for no reason to make room for female staff.
Messofanego
Banned
Loads of shows are along the format of True Detective now. Mr Robot, The Knick, Utopia, Black Mirror, House Of Cards, and a dozen more where the direction is evident or award-worthy and the team is usually the same. My point isn't that it'll be used as a sell point but that people do care about directors of tv show episodes.
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