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[SolidSnakex]

I think Vamp being a cyborg explains...well, everything about him. The bloodsucking thing, well, maybe that's how re-energizes? lulz.

His bloodsucking thing came from when he was a kid and his family was killed he drank their blood to stay alive.

 

[karasu]

WHAT!?!? Leave this thread!

But seriously, theres no way, dude. I'll give you EQUAL at most, and even then Snake surpassed him. Raiden is in no way greater than Snake, though. He may have taken on 25 Metal Gear Rays, but he couldn't take on actual people. If you remember, he was quite bad at it, at least in terms of the psychological effects. Raiden was being controlled, and his mind was pretty damn weak. Raiden also basically had to be told that he was being controlled. Snake tends to figure it out, but he continues his mission like a true soldier. His mind is also stronger, and psychological warfare is something he is prepared to defend against. Honestly, try to make sense of this string of words cause between talking to people on AIM and watching videos, I...sorta lost my train of thought. :lol

Either way, Snake > Raiden. :lol

Seriously. Snake was holding Raiden's hand through most of the game. Raiden was the most weak minded, easily distracted, clueless soldier ever. No way is he equal to Snake.

 

[frAntic_Frog]

the worst cutscenes in the MGS saga are definitely from MGS twin snakes.....its as if they wanted every move that snake made in that game to be slow-mo matrix effect from '99.....worst ever

 

[Orlics]

WHAT!?!? Leave this thread!

But seriously, theres no way, dude. I'll give you EQUAL at most, and even then Snake surpassed him. Raiden is in no way greater than Snake, though. He may have taken on 25 Metal Gear Rays, but he couldn't take on actual people. If you remember, he was quite bad at it, at least in terms of the psychological effects. Raiden was being controlled, and his mind was pretty damn weak. Raiden also basically had to be told that he was being controlled. Snake tends to figure it out, but he continues his mission like a true soldier. His mind is also stronger, and psychological warfare is something he is prepared to defend against. Honestly, try to make sense of this string of words cause between talking to people on AIM and watching videos, I...sorta lost my train of thought. :lol

Either way, Snake > Raiden. :lol

Seriously. Snake was holding Raiden's hand through most of the game. Raiden was the most weak minded, easily distracted, clueless soldier ever. No way is he equal to Snake.

Guys, I was talking about SKILL. Not resolve, courage, wisdom, or anything else. The fact of the matter is, Raiden beat an immortal dancing vampire thrice, defeated 25 RAYs, defeated Solidus (who is arguably as much of a soldier as Snake, and is a great politician too ) and could knock out Arsenal Tengus while naked.

Snake is the more experienced veteran, but you have to remember that his accelerated aging is doing nothing but hurting him. Whether or not you agree that Raiden is as good as snake, by the end of MGS2, he has nowhere to go but up, while Snake has nowhere to go but down.

the worst cutscenes in the MGS saga are definitely from MGS twin snakes.....its as if they wanted every move that snake made in that game to be slow-mo matrix effect from '99.....worst ever

Kojima wanted the cutscenes redone like that because he thought they conveyed the idea of Snake as an ultimate soldier much better than in MGS1. You might still prefer MGS1, but Twin Snake's is part of Kojima's vision of the series.

 

[pel1300]

I'd compare the suspension of disbelief in MGS to be similar to a Michael Crichton novel, myself. Pseudo-science.

That's EXACTLY the word I was looking for this whole time. Pseudo-science!

Another good comparison would be LOST.

Theres a big difference between this type of suspension of belief that a flat out slapstick cartoon.

 

[karasu]

Guys, I was talking about SKILL. Not resolve, courage, wisdom, or anything else. The fact of the matter is, Raiden beat an immortal dancing vampire thrice, defeated 25 RAYs, defeated Solidus (who is arguably as much of a soldier as Snake, and is a great politician too ) and could knock out Arsenal Tengus while naked.

Eh No Way. Neither Raiden or Solidus have accomplished a fraction of what snake has. Outer Heaven? Zanzibr? Shadow Moses? They've done nothing.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Guys, I was talking about SKILL. Not resolve, courage, wisdom, or anything else. The fact of the matter is, Raiden beat an immortal dancing vampire thrice, defeated 25 RAYs, defeated Solidus (who is arguably as much of a soldier as Snake, and is a great politician too ) and could knock out Arsenal Tengus while naked.

Snake is the more experienced veteran, but you have to remember that his accelerated aging is doing nothing but hurting him. Whether or not you agree that Raiden is as good as snake, by the end of MGS2, he has nowhere to go but up, while Snake has nowhere to go but down.

I agree to an extent. Kojima said once that part of the reason for Raiden was to see how people would react to someone who was capable of the same, or better things than Snake but had a different personality. He pointed out how Raiden is someone you might want to be friends with while Snake is someone who you wouldn't want be friends with because of how is attitude is. So it was interesting to see that so many people hated Raiden while they love Snake.

 

[karasu]

Plus, Snake would have only had to beat Vamp once.

 

[BlueTsunami]

I really like the way Meryl looks now. Its not as animu now, very smooth and more realistic.

 

[Chemo]

Ocelot realized this and decided to instead use the Ray's water beam, which could NOT be stopped by the device, but before doing so Liquid takes over (maybe The Patriots were triggering this as well, it is still very likely considering MGS4' digitized sense theme that Liquid is nothing but a digitized meme of Liquid which has now taken over him through Liquid's nanomachines located in his arm).

Ocelot is

Spoiler

the son of The Sorrow

. I think that explains the channeling of Liquid Snake a lot more than the nanomachines.

 

[Orlics]

Ocelot is

Spoiler

the son of The Sorrow

. I think that explains the channeling of Liquid Snake a lot more than the nanomachines.

This is a common theory, but it requires some leaps of logic. Here's an excerpt from that ultimate FAQ on GameFAQs.

Like any theory, there are some problems with this idea. First, like the Ocelot-gone-psycho idea, it's more of a means to fill a gap more than it is a means to an end. That is to say, there's not much thematic or plot-relevant weight to the idea. Yes, it could work if handled well, but is that the only reason to write a plot point? Sometimes people seem to think that Kojima develops aspects of a plot for the mere idea of making them twisted or obscure. If one character pops up, it can't be because that's an individual human being with its own purpose, it must be because it immediately explains away the existence of some other issue or contingency. Two characters are African-American, they must be related. The logic tends to work as follows:

-Character A's special ability was that he could fly.
-Character B inexplicably survived a very high drop from a building.
-Character A is revealed to be Character B's cousin.
-Character B's survival is now unshakably explained as being that he has a natural affinity for being in the air due to flying being in his bloodline somewhere. Mystery solved.

The logic could be considered deductive, but it could also be considered undermining to what MGS is. It doesn't tell a story just for the sake of telling it. Though, while it should be noted that MGS3 certainly did carry heavier spiritual themes and content than any MGS before it, this doesn't immediately justify anything either. It should also be noted that as far as spiritual content and story development goes, this wasn't just because he was waiting until MGS3 to get these ideas across. The fact of the matter is that Kojima hadn't even thought of The Sorrow until midway through MGS3's development. He was never a part of the original plan for either MGS2 or 3. What this leaves is a very important fact. At the time that Kojima wrote and created the concept of Liquid living in Ocelot's arm, he had absolutely no concept of The Sorrow in his mind, meaning that as of the year 2000-2001, The Sorrow theory WAS NOT the reasoning behind this plot point. No matter how you look at it, this is the case. Basically, when he created MGS2, he already had a reason in mind for the concept of Liquid's arm that didn't involve The Sorrow. Based on this, we have two possibilities: One, that he's completely going back on his original reasoning and choosing to overwrite that idea with an entirely spiritual one. Two, he's taking his original idea and using The Sorrow to support it somehow.

http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=926596&topic=31727835

Lots more theories about the arm there.

 

[Y2Kev]

quote him, lots of pics, and considering it's from bouc, I bet they are great.

They are. Looks amazing.

Is this from the PSN encode, bouc? Cause I'm beginning to see lost detail.

 

[Red Blaster]

Meryl looks totally awesome. Love the bullet earrings.

 

[MickeyKnox]

Ok so I went through the PSN trailer again, this time entirely with the frame by frame stepping using either the d-pad or R2 and I noticed a few things I missed before.

(first there is definitely something weird with how the trailer was encoded and it's causing almost all of the motion to not look as smooth as it should)

* Snake's uncovered eye gets crazy bloodshot when Liquid activates the nano machines, seriously, it's ****ing creepy as hell.

* Besides some of the soldiers shitting themselves, the dude who tries to tackle Snake and gets tossed aside, is crying, you can read the emotion on his face and actually see the tears streaming from his eyes.

* The "mystery" fox-hound member is definitely striking me as NOT being Raiden. Even though I'm sure the scene takes place earlier in the game, the guy isn't built like Raiden, his frame and musculature are more like that masked soldier from the end of the last trailer who poses with the statues and has the still unexplained tuft of white hair protruding from under the back of his mask. (I still say he doesn't take the mask off as the camera is panning up)

**Also, I'm now about 85% positive that the person standing behind Liquid on the platform is NOT the same person who is on the helicopter, the latter being Naomi. You have to really go frame by frame and look at their coats, Naomi's coat on the helicopter is cut to close off center (to her left) down the front, the person standing behind Liquid does not seem to be wearing the same exact coat as it is cut to close down the middle (frame by frame you can see the left side of their body and shoulder where the coat Naomi is wearing has it's buttons.) You can also see a portion of the person's face and it seems to be someone either older or "less pretty" than Naomi.

 

[jett]

I was wondering, WTF ever happened to that OOOO sytem bullshieeet(that was supposed to usher in the nextgen) that Kojima mentioned once?

 

[Y2Kev]

I was wondering, WTF ever happened to that OOOO sytem bullshieeet(that was supposed to usher in the nextgen) that Kojima mentioned once?

It's in grandpa snake's uniform maybe.

 

[Kabuki Quantum Lover]

I was wondering, WTF ever happened to that OOOO sytem bullshieeet(that was supposed to usher in the nextgen) that Kojima mentioned once?

You saw it in the trailer. Vamp pierced Raiden's foot with a spike.

 

[∀ Narayan]

You saw it in the trailer. Vamp pierced Raiden's foot with a spike.

AMAZING! :O~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

[karasu]

wtf is OOOOOO?! Speak English!

 

[∀ Narayan]

wtf is OOOOOO?! Speak English!

You saw it in the trailer. Vamp pierced Raiden's foot with a spike.

 

[nelsonroyale]

I really like cg look this game has

 

[Socreges]

this trailer struck me as boring. i'm glad that vamp is back, mind you, but it's a character i had virtually forgotten of (mgs2's story wasn't that memorable to me). the dialogue is standard mgs fair which i never truly enjoy. and there was no gameplay. none. after so many trailers i feel like we still dont have much idea how the game plays. i'm sure he wants some things to remain a surprise, but it'd still be nice.

 

[bud]

I really like cg look this game has

it doesn't have a cg look at all, in fact, i'm a bit disappointed at how the game looks. it does look great but it doesn't have anywhere near the impact that mgs2's graphics had on me. maybe it's because of the same environment we keep seeing everytime but there are so many bad textures it's not even funny. maybe this will change once we see new environments but the chance of seeing new environments is getting slimmer everytime a new trailer comes out

i would've been happy if the trailer had the same look as the pics that we're seeing in this thread but it doesn't.

 

[Ether_Snake]

the worst cutscenes in the MGS saga are definitely from MGS twin snakes.....its as if they wanted every move that snake made in that game to be slow-mo matrix effect from '99.....worst ever

Some say that MGS:Twin Snakes is Raiden's reliving of the events through VR training (he went through the Shadow Moses VR training before), hence why it is as over-the-top as the part where he fights the 25 Rays in Arsenal (from Solidus landing out of nowhere after speaking with his thunderous voice to clouds and lighting in what is supposed to be a hangar).

But that's a bit of a stretch. Anyway it's not like things were as over-the-top in MGS3.

And yeah the person in the chopper is NOT the same person that is behind Ocelot. In the chopper it's Naomi, behind Ocelot is someone else.

BTW oN MGS:TUS we figured out that the Vamp VS Raiden fight is in Brazil or close to it (same exact parking sign not found in any another cities so far). Brazil or Argentina.

And about Raiden, here is what I posted in another thread:

Kojima is making fun of Raiden to some extent. He knows we found him girly. He gave us what we wanted (cool ninja Raiden) but at the same time for every cool aspect Raiden now has his feminine aspect has been increased. This is obviously intentional and so is our reaction to him. Kojima has used Raiden as an "agent" for challenging the player's expectations.

Here is a year old interview snippet with Kojima on this:

EGM: In this trailer, reviled MGS2 star Raiden shows up and kicks serious ass. Did you want to shock all his detractors?

HK: Well yes, that was my plan all along. The main theme of MGS4 is "Sense." What we've done to Raiden as a character, and how you react to him...that's all a part of it. We're going to experiment with many things, many viewpoints, and really try to challenge players' expectations and beliefs.

EDIT: And this reinforced the idea that this is NOT really Raiden

 

[robertsan21]

it doesn't have a cg look at all, in fact, i'm a bit disappointed at how the game looks. it does look great but it doesn't have anywhere near the impact that mgs2's graphics had on me. maybe it's because of the same environment we keep seeing everytime but there are so many bad textures it's not even funny. maybe this will change once we see new environments but the chance of seeing new environments is getting slimmer everytime a new trailer comes out

i would've been happy if the trailer had the same look as the pics that we're seeing in this thread but it doesn't.

spot on, I just PRAY that these latest trailers are all using placeholder textures and that the final version will be killzone good graphics, I am really dissapointed at the graphics.

MGS is THE best gameseries out there and graphics IS very important I just hope we get a much better looking game when it hits the stores!

Come on Kojima, make it happen its youre last MGS so shape up and create one hell of a story, one hell of a gameplay and ONE HELL OF A GRAPHICS FOR US TO PLAY IN!

 

[MickeyKnox]

it doesn't have a cg look at all, in fact, i'm a bit disappointed at how the game looks. it does look great but it doesn't have anywhere near the impact that mgs2's graphics had on me. maybe it's because of the same environment we keep seeing everytime but there are so many bad textures it's not even funny. maybe this will change once we see new environments but the chance of seeing new environments is getting slimmer everytime a new trailer comes out

i would've been happy if the trailer had the same look as the pics that we're seeing in this thread but it doesn't.

The trailer encode is all kinds of screwy.

 

[bud]

The trailer encode is all kinds of screwy.

which one? i've seen the 720p that's linked in this thread and the gametrailers one, is it any different in the psn version?

 

[PepsimanVsJoe]

Kojima is making fun of Raiden to some extent. He knows we found him girly. He gave us what we wanted (cool ninja Raiden) but at the same time for every cool aspect Raiden now has his feminine aspect has been increased. This is obviously intentional and so is our reaction to him. Kojima has used Raiden as an "agent" for challenging the player's expectations.

Scary thought. By the time I get used to Ninja Raiden the next time I see him he'll be the ultimate karate master and defeat 70 Metal Gears with one hand but he'll also be bald and have a beard that he uses to grapple onto ledges. Or on the other hand they'll make him a woman but give him back his penis(which was MIA in MGS2).



Speaking of I need a new avatar that properly shows my mancrush for Raiden. Maybe the one from the MGS3 special vids where he arrives via time travel and he has the whole magical stars and twinkles thing going on.

 

[MickeyKnox]

which one? i've seen the 720p that's linked in this thread and the gametrailers one, is it any different in the psn version?

Well they are all the same trailer, so all of them really. Beyond obscuring the fine detail that we can see from the screens; there are missing frames everywhere, making the game look choppier than it really is.

 

[carlos]

So....does anyone think that the WORLDWIDE SIMULTANEOUS RELEASE of this game will include a multiplayer component? Or will they wait until one of the inevitable revisions (a la subsistance) to add it?
(I still miss playing mgs3 online why did they kill it so early....and no, I don't like playing it on psp; d-pad sucks)
I don't think I can hold out until another version of the game is out; but I'm against buying the same game twice, so I guess that leaves me no choice

 

[PepsimanVsJoe]

I don't think I can hold out until another version of the game is out; but I'm against buying the same game twice, so I guess that leaves me no choice

It depends. I didn't buy MGS2 until the PS2 version of Substance came out(and I don't regret it at all, VR missions are ****hot) but I bought MGS3 day one(even got the LE Subsistence...though I never played it online).

Course all this depends on if I have a PS3 by then.

 

[Rufus]

You saw it in the trailer. Vamp pierced Raiden's foot with a spike.

It's actually the knife Vamp stuck in his foot prior to that. Raiden stomps it in Vamps neck a few times and then pushes it through with his other foot and in Vamp's chest. Next thing we see is Vamps pushing it through his chest and pulling it out from his back.

This is a common theory, but it requires some leaps of logic. Here's an excerpt from that ultimate FAQ on GameFAQs.

I found the arm thing to be one of the most ridiculous moments in the entire series and these kind of elaborate explanations are making it even worse for me. XD
It all falls kind of apart if you explain one WTF moment with several other WTF moments. You're better off not looking to deep with some things.

 

[Sullichin]

Vamp/Raiden fight scene was awesome. Not too blown away by the graphics (mostly just the bland textures and overly brown color scheme).

 

[HomerSimpson-Man]

Guys, I was talking about SKILL. Not resolve, courage, wisdom, or anything else. The fact of the matter is, Raiden beat an immortal dancing vampire thrice, defeated 25 RAYs, defeated Solidus (who is arguably as much of a soldier as Snake, and is a great politician too ) and could knock out Arsenal Tengus while naked.

Snake is the more experienced veteran, but you have to remember that his accelerated aging is doing nothing but hurting him. Whether or not you agree that Raiden is as good as snake, by the end of MGS2, he has nowhere to go but up, while Snake has nowhere to go but down.



Kojima wanted the cutscenes redone like that because he thought they conveyed the idea of Snake as an ultimate soldier much better than in MGS1. You might still prefer MGS1, but Twin Snake's is part of Kojima's vision of the series.

Yeah, Raiden was fairly green....but he was a monster in potential skills and abilities already and MGS2's scenario was crazy. Raiden is just abilities is just plain sick when it's all said and done.

It's a sense of historic Metal Gear twisting irony, in that Gray Fox who became the original cyberninja was the one to help guide the then green Solid Snake in the past Metal Gears, and now it's Solid Snake who helped guided Raiden who's now MGS4's cyberninja.

 

[Splatt]

Was this mentioned?

mohawk = !

Anyone notice the dude in Meryl's Foxhound unit with the mohawk. Its actually an exclamation mark.

Taken from the Official MGS4 thread at Gametrailers.\

EDIT:

Now hosted on tinypic. Sorry for imageshack. I didn't even check where it was hosted.

 

[SolidSnakex]

So....does anyone think that the WORLDWIDE SIMULTANEOUS RELEASE of this game will include a multiplayer component? Or will they wait until one of the inevitable revisions (a la subsistance) to add it?
(I still miss playing mgs3 online why did they kill it so early....and no, I don't like playing it on psp; d-pad sucks)
I don't think I can hold out until another version of the game is out; but I'm against buying the same game twice, so I guess that leaves me no choice

Ryan mentioned in Kojima Productions podcasts that Sony was helping them work on the feature of the game.

 

[EviLore]

Was this mentioned?

mohawk = !

Anyone notice the dude in Meryl's Foxhound unit with the mohawk. Its actually an exclamation mark.

Taken from the Official MGS4 thread at Gametrailers.

That's pretty rad.

(also, imageshack, watch out)

 

[MickeyKnox]

Was this mentioned?

mohawk = !

Anyone notice the dude in Meryl's Foxhound unit with the mohawk. Its actually an exclamation mark.

Taken from the Official MGS4 thread at Gametrailers.

****ing awesome.

 

[HomerSimpson-Man]

Haha, that's neat!

 

[BlueTsunami]

Kojima and Sony! Closer than ever!

 

[Ether_Snake]

From MGS:TUS (makes me think that indeed the guy with the glasses is not Raiden after all), by Kushami:

I'm thinking Policenauts, myself.

Meryl is from Policenauts. There's three other people hanging with her there in the trailer.

-The main character in Policenauts is named Jonathan Ingram.
-His partner is a big black dude named Ed Brown.
-Again, Meryl is in Policenauts...
-and she has a blonde dude with goggles on his head as a partner, named Dave Forrest.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Policenauts#Cast_of_characters

While I know in Policenauts Jonathan and Ed look like Riggs and Murtaugh, I doubt they'd be able to get away with it now. The Jonathan nod is the main reason I made this connection.

In the trailer it does sound like he calls the black guy Ed, then runs over to the one with the exclamation mark and calls him Johnathan.

So blondie=Dave.

 

[SolidSnakex]

 

[Y2Kev]

Him running with the camera overhead was my favorite part of the trailer.

 

[MercuryLS]

That whole fight was way too over-the-top, like the shit found in Twin Snakes.

 

[AltogetherAndrews]

Have they given any explanation for the change in graphical style from last year's trailer?

 

[SolidSnakex]

Have they given any explanation for the change in visual presentation from last year's trailer?

Which trailer from last year?

 

[AltogetherAndrews]

Which trailer from last year?

The long, somber one. It had a different visual theme overall; a good deal darker than this one. This looks basically like the first trailer shown, and I'm curious as to whether they have offered any explanation as to why that is.

 

[SolidSnakex]

I think they're still trying to figure out what color filter looks best for the game as well as what models work best. And so they keep chaning them around and getting fan feedback on them. Kojima doesn't seem like he was interviewed at E3 for whatever reason. There are usually online interviews up by now but so far there's nothing.

 

[FLEABttn]

That whole fight was way too over-the-top, like the shit found in Twin Snakes.

Which was torn to shit on NeoGAF.

Not MGS4 though. Never MGS4.

 

[BigBoss]

Which was torn to shit on NeoGAF.

Not MGS4 though. Never MGS4.

It was torn apart because in TTS it was Snake performing all the retarded stunts, not the same for MGS4, is it?