• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

New York bombing: Ahmad Khan Rahami IDed as suspect (Up: Arrested)

Status
Not open for further replies.
D

darkhunger

Member
excelsiorlef said:
It wasn't.

They took the bomb out of the suit case and threw it in the trash can and ran off with the suit cade
Click to expand...

They're separate stories:

On Sunday night, two thieves stole a backpack sitting on top of a trash can at a commuter train station in Elizabeth, N.J. When the pair opened the bag to see their loot, they were stunned to find five explosives inside. The thieves dropped the bag in the middle of the street and ran to call police.

It wasn't even the first time thieves thwarted the bomber's schemes. On Saturday, before the bomb detonated on West 23rd Street in Chelsea, two thieves disabled a pressure cooker in a suitcase on West 27th Street — likely completely on accident:

The young men, who sources described as being well-dressed, opened the bag and took the bomb out, sources said, before placing the explosive into a garbage bag and walking away with the rolling suitcase.

In doing so, investigators believe they inadvertently disabled the explosive, sources said. That allowed investigators to examine the cellphone attached to the bomb intact and discover that it was connected to the family of Rahami. [DNAInfo]

"Who in this world finds a pressure cooker with a phone and just takes the bag?" a law enforcement source marveled to DNAInfo. Regardless, whoever you are — thank you.
Click to expand...

#thiefsaretheheroesweneed
 
J

Jeels

Member
Nervous Sausage said:
While geopolitics plays a small part in ISIS's agenda, it's predominantly religious and they will vehemently tell you the same thing as seen in their latest propaganda magazine. Apparently they're sick of people in the West making excuses for them and blaming their actions on geopolitical instability, giving them excuses they never even asked for.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/isis-explains-their-hatred-western-society-latest-dabiq-propaganda-magazine-1573868
Click to expand...

Why listen to ISIS? Their entire propaganda machine is based on them trying to establish themselves as the actual voice of Islam so of course they are going to say this.

The fact is that the majority of the Muslim world is actually victim and ISIS and despises them. Hence Daesh being used all across Muslim majority countries.

Edit: glad they caught him, that was super quick.
 
A

Arkeband

Banned
Netherscourge said:
How do we know they are thieves? They saw a backpack just lying around and grabbed it. Then they called the police. How are they thieves?

Did they call the cops and say, "Yo. Thief here. I stole this backpack but found a bomb in it."

??
Click to expand...

If you rummage through shit that isn't yours, you're in the process of thievery.

They get a free pass due to the accidental heroism.
 
J

JP_

Banned
jiji said:
Religion has no will of its own. It's dead text (at least, if we're talking Abrahamic). Religious violence is really political violence that uses religious ideology as its justification. And as we've seen, political violence is exacerbated by geopolitical instability. If you want to see terrorism linked with other Abrahamic religions, you only have to look as far back as the Jewish terrorism between WWII and the foundation of Israel, the attacks on abortion clinics in the US, the acts of the KKK, and the violence carried out by Christian militias in the Central African Republic in 2014.

Where is most of the political instability in the world right now? Africa and the Middle East. Where are the strongest extremist groups located? Where is peaceful political process most likely to fail? Same places.

My opinion is that focusing on religion as a motivator of violence is just a way to fight a culture war and distracts from the bigger problem of general instability.
Click to expand...

This is on point. People suggesting Islam is uniquely violent just don't know history and don't know how we got to where we are today -- they're taking current events out of the context of history and only looking at the surface. This has more to do with human nature than religious extremism.


Want to reduce religious extremism? Look at what works:

Police in a town in Denmark have achieved real, measurable success by offering help instead of continuing discrimination:

"The original response was to fight [extremism] through military and policing efforts, and they didn't fare too well," says Arie Kruglanski, a social psychologist at the University of Maryland who studies violent extremism. "That kind of response that puts them as suspects and constrains them and promotes discrimination — that is only likely to exacerbate the problem. It's only likely to inflame the sense there's discrimination and motivate young people to act against society."

...

This is what sets the Aarhus program apart. It didn't use force to stop people from going to Syria but instead fought the roots of radicalization, Kruglanski says. "There are strong correlations between humiliation and the search for an extremist ideology," he says. Organizations like ISIS take advantage of people who, because of racism or religious or political discrimination, have been pushed to the margins of society.

Link and Aarslev's program showed people like Jamal that there was a place for them.

"Aarhus is the first, to my knowledge, to grapple with [extremism] based on sound social psychology evidence and principles," Kruglanski says. What Link and Aarslev were doing was so unexpected that it created an opening for people to think differently about their ideology. "They expect to be treated harshly," Kruglanski says. Instead, they got the opposite. "That kind of shock opens people's minds to maybe they were wrong about their society that they perceived as their enemy. It opens a possible window into rethinking and re-evaluating."

...

But the program is admired for another accomplishment: Since the initial exodus of young people, very few have left from Aarhus for Syria, even when traffic from the rest of Europe was spiking. Last year, in 2015, it was just one person.
Click to expand...
http://www.npr.org/sections/health-...town-helped-young-muslims-turn-away-from-isis

Inclusivity and diversity make society less religious:

cox-religious-diversity-1.png


Diversity within our immediate social networks may also serve to weaken our ties to a religious community or strengthen our resolve to remain unattached. Much of what we do, what we think, and how we understand the world is influenced by those around us. Americans who report greater religious diversity in their social networks demonstrate much less regular religious involvement.4 A new analysis based on a PRRI study of Americans’ social networks found that Americans who report greater religious diversity among their close friends and family are less likely to engage in religious activities. Sixty-three percent of Americans who have religiously diverse social networks say they seldom or never attend religious services, compared with only about one-third (32 percent) of those who count coreligionists as their closest friends and family members. This is true for religious Americans as well. In fact, even when controlling for different demographic attributes, including religious identity, Americans with more religiously diverse social networks demonstrate lower rates of religious participation and are less apt to say religion is important in their lives than other Americans.

68120f2267.png
Click to expand...

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/religious-diversity-may-be-making-america-less-religious/

"Having the ability to lambast Islamic belief and doctrine without being called Islamophobic?" is not a solution, it's just a way for you to feel better by punching down. People like Malala show how to talk about specific issues without adopting unproductive islamaphobic language. The police in Aarhus show how to effectively combat the radicalization we grapple with today.
 
R

radios shipping overview

Member
Nervous Sausage said:
While geopolitics plays a small part in ISIS's agenda, it's predominantly religious and they will vehemently tell you the same thing as seen in their latest propaganda magazine. Apparently they're sick of people in the West making excuses for them and blaming their actions on geopolitical instability, giving them excuses they never even asked for.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/isis-explains-their-hatred-western-society-latest-dabiq-propaganda-magazine-1573868
Click to expand...

Am I supposed to take ISIS's propaganda organ at face value?
 
S

SoundofSilence

Member
Dierce said:
trump is the cancer and it wants to spread itself, not surprising. Orange turd's rhetoric assist terrorists by fueling division and hatred.
Click to expand...

Yep. A Trump presidency is ISIS's dream scenario writ large. If people don't think random bombings like this can get far, far worse then they haven't being paying attention.
 
S

Shogmaster

Member
Trump's rise and rhetoric may be exactly what pushed this guy over the edge. I find many people I meet, regardless of race of religion to be unstable anyways. Recent social pressures just make it easier for Muslims who happen to be unstable in this country to lose it IMO.
 
Audioboxer

Audioboxer

Member
Jeels said:
Why listen to ISIS? Their entire propaganda machine is based on them trying to establish themselves as the actual voice of Islam so of course they are going to say this.

The fact is that the majority of the Muslim world is actually victim and ISIS and despises them. Hence Daesh being used all across Muslim majority countries.

Edit: glad they caught him, that was super quick.
Click to expand...

Because radicalisation happens largely in part because of ISIS? I mean sure, stick your head in the sand and just chalk ISIS up to the "not real Muslims" all you want while the vile fucks that are ISIS make headway in your own country. The rest of us wanting to see these hellish times disappear will do everything to try and understand how homegrown terrorists come about from being radicalised largely in thanks to social media and access to ISIS magazines/text/teachings (which shock horror many of them quote from the Koran!!!). It's not just social media though, radicalisation happens via Mosques as well. Many of which the authorities get too scared to deal with in fear of being called Islamophobic. Go have a look at the Rotherham rape gangs in the UK and the failings of the British police and come back to me and say, well you know, it's good they (the police) stopped themselves getting called Islamophobic!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotherham_child_sexual_exploitation_scandal
 
H

Henkka

Banned
jiji said:
Am I supposed to take ISIS's propaganda organ at face value?
Click to expand...

Truthful or not, that's what they use to gain recruits. In their main propaganda outlet, aimed at gaining new fighters from abroad, they directly state their cause is primarily about religion, not politics. This appeals to people who go to Syria to join them. What does that tell you?
 
E

excelsiorlef

Member
Guevara said:
Trump going hard this morning:


http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/09/trump-after-nyc-bombs-we-need-racial-profiling.html
Click to expand...

Should have posted the rest. He's unhinged



Trump went on to condemn President Obama for allowing Muslim refugees into the country, decrying the effort to resettle Syrians displaced by war as a “Trojan horse” whose true effect would be to fill America with ISIS agents.

“How they came into the country in the first place is beyond me,” Trump said of legal American residents whom he hopes to represent as president. “This is cancer from within. This is something that’s going to be so tough. They stay together. They’re plotting.”

...

“I heard — I didn’t see it — but I heard I was criticized for calling it correctly,” Trump told the Fox News morning crew. “But what I said was exactly correct. I should be a newscaster because I called it before the news.”
Click to expand...
 
H

HStallion

Now what's the next step in your master plan?
Audioboxer said:
Because radicalisation happens largely in part because of ISIS? I mean sure, stick your head in the sand and just chalk ISIS up to the "not real Muslims" all you want while the vile fucks that are ISIS make headway in your own country. The rest of us wanting to see these hellish times disappear will do everything to try and understand how homegrown terrorists come about from being radicalised largely in thanks to social media and access to ISIS magazines/text/teachings (which shock horror many of them quote from the Koran!!!). It's not just social media though, radicalisation happens via Mosques as well. Many of which the authorities get too scared to deal with in fear of being called Islamophobic. Go have a look at the Rotherham rape gangs in the UK and the failings of the British police and come back to me and say, well you know, it's good they (the police) stopped themselves getting called Islamophobic!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotherham_child_sexual_exploitation_scandal
Click to expand...

Have you ever been to a mosque? You might want to sometime instead of painting some horrid picture and linking Wikipedia like you have made some brilliant point.
 
F

FyreWulff

Member
Audioboxer said:
Because radicalisation happens largely in part because of ISIS? I mean sure, stick your head in the sand and just chalk ISIS up to the "not real Muslims" all you want while the vile fucks that are ISIS make headway in your own country. The rest of us wanting to see these hellish times disappear will do everything to try and understand how homegrown terrorists come about from being radicalised largely in thanks to social media and access to ISIS magazines/text/teachings (which shock horror many of them quote from the Koran!!!). It's not just social media though, radicalisation happens via Mosques as well. Many of which the authorities get too scared to deal with in fear of being called Islamophobic. Go have a look at the Rotherham rape gangs in the UK and the failings of the British police and come back to me and say, well you know, it's good they (the police) stopped themselves getting called Islamophobic!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotherham_child_sexual_exploitation_scandal
Click to expand...

Even if ISIS could legitimately lay claim to every attack by someone of ME descent in the US, it'd still be a drop in the pan compared to our domestic non-Islamic terrorism problem done by native-born persons.
 
P

plagiarize

Banned
Audioboxer said:
So let me get something straight, do you two use the terms Christianophobes, Catholicophobes, and even Scientologyophobes?

I hope you do because otherwise I'd be wondering why you treat one ideology more specially than the others. Maybe you can clear that up for me. If it's the ideology you subscribe to, then I guess that explains why, but if it is deal with the fact not everyone worships the same God as you, and many of us no God at all.

Moving on to my 2 cents, the term Islamophobia is largely used as a shutdown. It's used when you can't quite get away with calling someone racist because they aren't actually being racist. Although many these days are just throwing racist and Islamophobia together all over the place. It does scratch heads though considering the idea of being racist to an ideology is laughable. You literally cannot be racist to a holy book. I mean cmon, stop that idiocy.

Now being racist to a person for mocking their skin colour/calling them inferior, you know, real racism, that is what you call someone a racist for. But as I said above the "smarter" left wing regressives realise they can't get away with calling someone who criticises the Islamic doctrine a racist, so they have to go with Islamophobia to make the media gasp and attack the person. With this usually comes hordes on twitter dropping the Islamophobia tag and just calling the person racist.

As for me hating? I mean I guess you might class any sort of criticism as hate? I don't. I mean, I hate cheating, as my ex cheated on me and it was awful. So I guess I hate some things in life. I do however not have a violent bone in my body, nor an intention to incite any violence, and am a big believer in freedom of speech, religion and living your life behind closed doors however you want as long as it doesn't hurt others. Problem here is the doctrine of Islam like the Bible has a shit ton of disgusting passages and passages which people believe literally. As I said earlier in the topic though not much killing is done in the name of the Bible these days. It most certainly was hundreds of years ago with the crusades. Blood baths. Mass killings, raping, pillaging and torturing. Not so much these days.

We live in the current times, the times that have our share of problems. Not the times of history gone by, and while history should always be remembered and in many cases never repeated, you don't make something history by allowing it to keep on continuing without honest discussion, criticism and in some cases downright ridicule and disgust. I'll repeat, sane religious people at worst get a little upset or offended when their beliefs are mocked, but they stop at that. The insane take offence to the level of violence, killing and in some countries creating laws to discriminate (LGBT laws, women treated as slaves, women beaten, female genital mutilation and sewing shut of vaginas, marrying and sex with children, and the list goes on). All of that is largely done either because they literally take from a given holy book, or they want to shutdown and completely eradicate freedoms of belief/religion and keep everyone in line.
Click to expand...

I use the appropriate words. I don't make them up. I don't worry about whether or not people 'like' having islamophobia correctly pointed out as being just that.

Religious discrimination isn't racism, because as you've correctly noticed it isn't about race. So that's why I'm not calling you a racist, because 'Islam' is a wide umbrella of religious beliefs that share many core principles and the Quran as a holy book, rather than a race.

It's the same reason I wouldn't call a sexist comment a racist comment. They are different things.

So I call islamophobia islamophobia. I didn't make the word up. You put forwards an islamophobic statement. I'm not wishing I could call it racist. Or sexist. Or homophobic.

I want shit called what it is. I want extremist Islamic beliefs, pinned on the extremists and NOT your average Muslim. Because they aren't Islamic beliefs even if you can cite chapter and verse from the Quran. Same as how I could pick a bunch of hateful shit out of the bible that doesn't actually represent what the majority of Christians actually believe.

It sounds like you want to be able to call a spoon a spoon, but you don't want other people to label your statements accurately.
 
J

JP_

Banned
Henkka said:
Truthful or not, that's what they use to gain recruits. In their main propaganda outlet, aimed at gaining new fighters from abroad, they directly state their cause is primarily about religion, not politics. This appeals to people who go to Syria to join them. What does that tell you?
Click to expand...

That for some reason you can't tell the difference between specific recruitment strategies and underlying motivations that drive human behavior.
 
R

radios shipping overview

Member
Henkka said:
Truthful or not, that's what they use to gain recruits. In their main propaganda outlet, aimed at gaining new fighters from abroad, they directly state their cause is primarily about religion, not politics. This appeals to people who go to Syria to join them. What does that tell you?
Click to expand...

You said here what I was going to say as a response to a post above, and it ties in with what I said before. Religion is the tool they use to justify their actions and to give themselves and their recruits a sense of purpose, but their de facto goals are strictly worldly: territory, money, power. It's easier to recruit people if you have a goal that sounds lofty. They're just a gang.
 
Audioboxer

Audioboxer

Member
HStallion said:
Have you ever been to a mosque? You might want to sometime.
Click to expand...

Is this some sort of #notallmosques?

Because unlike yourself I would not try to say all x hundred thousand/million mosques are 1:1 replicas of each other. So is this another attempt to shut me down because I dared say something distasteful could be preached in a mosque?

Anjem Choudary, one of the most notorious hate preachers living in Britain, is facing jail after being found guilty of supporting Islamic State.

Having avoided arrest for years despite his apparent sympathy for extremism and links to some of Britain’s most notorious terrorists, Choudary was convicted at the Old Bailey after jurors heard he had sworn an oath of allegiance to Isis.

The 49-year-old, who has links to one of Lee Rigby’s killers, Michael Adebolajo, and the Islamist militant Omar Bakri Muhammad, also urged followers to support Isis in a series of talks broadcast on YouTube.
Click to expand...

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/aug/16/anjem-choudary-convicted-of-supporting-islamic-state

Anjem Choundary, a large scale arrest of a London mosque preacher.

Bit from VICE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UC2VQjSgpso
 
B

Brinbe

Member
No surprise they got him. That's good work. Dude is in for a world of shit now. That's the last air of freedom he'll be seeing/breathing ever again.

Good work.
 
R

RK9039

Member
Audioboxer said:
Is this some sort of #notallmosques?

Because unlike yourself I would not try to say all x hundred thousand/million mosques are 1:1 replicas of each other. Is this another attempt to shut me down because I dared say something distasteful could be preached in a mosque?



https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/aug/16/anjem-choudary-convicted-of-supporting-islamic-state

Anjem Choundary, a large scale arrest of a London mosque preacher.

Bit from VICE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UC2VQjSgpso
Click to expand...

Which mosque did he preach in?

He did preach on BBC newsnight and Fox news though.
 
E

excelsiorlef

Member
Guevara said:
I'm actually relieved, he's overplaying whatever hand he thinks he has. Can't help himself.
Click to expand...

Cancer and trojan horses about Syrian refugees after an attack by an American citizen (which again means he's been in the US a while no screening at the boarder would have picked up shit) from Afghanistan...

Fucking racist idiot
 
B

Betty

Banned
Joe Shlabotnik said:
If it's just this guy and/or the cell is neutralized and nothing else happens this will be a distant memory by November.
Click to expand...

We've had attacks almost every month this year in some fashion or another, whether in the US or abroad there will absolutely be more attacks.
 
S

Sirpopopop

Member
Guevara said:
In my opinion, yes.

It would be great if Clinton, Obama, DiBlasio, etc. could say:

"1: Yes, we recognize it's another, foreign-born, Muslim terrorist. Same with the MN stabber. We aren't going to insult your intelligence by pretending it's not a trend; but...

2: It's important to remember that nearly all of these immigrants (Muslim or otherwise) want the same thing all Americans want: a better life, better jobs, a peaceful place to raise their families, etc.

3: We need to do a better job screening certain immigrants (and yes, that means from certain countries), and we need to do a better job integrating them, so we avoid radicalization."​

The first step is: admit there is a problem.
Click to expand...

So: You're saying that Muslims are a problem in the U.S, and that we need to limit immigration for that specific religion as a result?

Sounds racist to me.
 
P

Protein

Banned
Thankfully, no one was killed. The guy must feel like a total shithead. He didn't kill any innocents and his plan failed immensely. What a dumbfuck. Enjoy rotting in a box for the rest of your life.
 
H

Henkka

Banned
JP_ said:
That for some reason you can't tell the difference between specific recruitment strategies and underlying motivations that drive human behavior.
Click to expand...

Come on. They're literally screaming their motivations from the rooftops, but you claim to know better. In his podcast, Harris also reads a testimony from a Finnish woman who traveled to Syria to join ISIS. Now, what possible political motivation would a Finnish woman have to join ISIS? It makes no sense, and she doesn't mention politics. Instead it's all about God, the end times, and the afterlife.

ISIS' propaganda magazine is named Dabiq, btw. Which is a town in Syria where they believe they'll fight the final battle against disbelievers which will trigger the apocalypse. But hey, it's about politics, right?

jiji said:
You said here what I was going to say as a response to a post above, and it ties in with what I said before. Religion is the tool they use to justify their actions and to give themselves and their recruits a sense of purpose, but their de facto goals are strictly worldly: territory, money, power. It's easier to recruit people if you have a goal that sounds lofty. They're just a gang.
Click to expand...

So you don't think they believe in the afterlife, despite them directly telling you?
 
shanafan

shanafan

Member
Bam Bam Baklava said:
Both officers do not have serious injuries, they should be fine.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, this isn't always the case when someone is shot. A police officer in Detroit was shot in the shoulder at a gas station last weekend, and he was supposed to go home - but the injury took a tragic turn and he passed away yesterday.
 
N

Night Angel

Member
Can't say I'm surprised that a terrorist in NYC is a foreign born Muslim. Thank goodness he was caught before he successfully killed a bunch of innocent people whose only crime was not believing in the same fairy tale as him. Hopefully he rolls on his accomplices.

Sorry for the folks who really wanted a white/Christian terror cell (what the fuck makes a person post this kind of comment in the first place?) this time around. I'm sure the people injured by these attacks would have been happy to know that Islam (a doctrine beyond reproach, especially in the ways it handles women's and gay rights) was finally not the reason a shitload of innocent people were attacked for a religion.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

  • Locked
'Lone wolf' terror suspect arrested in New York
5
901
Shanadeus replied
  • Locked
Bomb in Times Square
8 9 10 11 12
560
39K
Munch replied
  • Locked
Suspects of bomb scare hold press conference, talk only about haircuts in the 70s
1
545
White Man replied
  • Locked
New Terror alert from 3 years ago?
2
357
samus4ever replied
Top Bottom