• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

New York bombing: Ahmad Khan Rahami IDed as suspect (Up: Arrested)

Status
Not open for further replies.
Yes? Any religion which encourages deplorable behavior should be openly mocked and criticized. Our species should be moving forward.

Let me try to put it more eloquently.

Would you criticize a Methodist for something Catholics were doing? I hope you wouldn't. Do you blame Christian beliefs and Christian doctrine for what Westboro Baptist Church do?
I hope you wouldn't.

And I certainly don't see any large groups of people here in America doing either of those things, and yet any Muslim, but they Sunni, Shia, ISIS, whatever, gets criticized or ostracized or abused for the shit ISIS and ISIS sympathizers do whenever you aim your criticism at the whole umbrella.

Blaming every single Muslim or criticizing every denomination that falls under it, regardless of whether they share ISIS's beliefs or not, doesn't fix any problem. It can ONLY create problems.
 
Having the ability to lambast Islamic belief and doctrine without being called Islamophobic? Wanting to be able to show disgusting polls and criticise them that come from Islamic communities that say adulterers, gays and apostates aren't human beings and/or should be killed? Wanting to point out the horrors of how women are treated. Wanting to clearly label and identify a terrorist as Islamic if they identify as a Muslim and believe in the God of the Koran without that meaning you are Islamophobic either? And lastly sure wanting to have immigration discussions that have substance as like it or not the people coming into your country should be background checked and have to vetted for radicalisation/violent beliefs/beliefs against the law in your country.

Because you know what? I don't care if it costs the government money it's not oh well shit happens moments when 9/11 happens, or the Orlando shooting, or the Paris attacks or the Rotherham rape gangs in the UK. People are dieing and women were raped on mass. Open discourse is part of the action needed to tackle terrorism and disgusting ideological beliefs.

So you want to be an islamophobe without the moral opprobrium that comes with insulting 2 billion people.

You're not asking for open discourse according to your first paragraph, your asking permission to hate and discriminate.
 
Religion has no will of its own. It's dead text (at least, if we're talking Abrahamic). Religious violence is really political violence that uses religious ideology as its justification. And as we've seen, political violence is exacerbated by geopolitical instability. If you want to see terrorism linked with other Abrahamic religions, you only have to look as far back as the Jewish terrorism between WWII and the foundation of Israel, the attacks on abortion clinics in the US, the acts of the KKK, and the violence carried out by Christian militias in the Central African Republic in 2014.

Where is most of the political instability in the world right now? Africa and the Middle East. Where are the strongest extremist groups located? Where is peaceful political process most likely to fail? Same places.

My opinion is that focusing on religion as a motivator of violence is just a way to fight a culture war and distracts from the bigger problem of general instability.
 

Lenardo

Banned
unfortunately, until the muslims -specifically the groups following the most extreme teachings (death to all infidels etc)- moderate their teachings, nothing WE (the West) do, will change their beliefs. Change has to come from within the muslim community.

and unfortunately in the middle east, not much is happening on that front- YET. maybe in another 3 or 400 years.

muslim on muslim attacks are way more common than attacks on the west, since well, most sects of islam, hate the other sects with a passion that can only be called, religious fervor.
 
Now, some actual news, in lieu of the usual discussion on this topic:

https://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/20...helped-crack-chelsea-bombing-case-sources-say

In two separate cases, thieves snatching bags from city streets and train stations inadvertently helped law enforcement get the upper hand in an ongoing bomb spree that's hurt dozens of people and spans both sides of the Hudson River, sources said.

The day Ahmad Khan Rahami allegedly planted two bombs in Chelsea — one of which detonated on West 23rd Street — two thieves accidentally helped to disable his second pressure cooker bomb left inside a rolling suitcase on West 27th Street, sources said.

The young men, who sources described as being well-dressed, opened the bag and took the bomb out, sources said, before placing the explosive into a garbage bag and walking away with the rolling suitcase.

In doing so, investigators believe they inadvertently disabled the explosive, sources said. That allowed investigators to examine the cellphone attached to the bomb intact and discover that it was connected to the family of Rahami.

A similar thing happened with the bomb in New Jersey:

Then, on Sunday night, two would-be thieves snatched a backpack resting atop a trash can near a train station in Elizabeth, N.J., according to reports.

They started rooting through the bag and found five explosives that officials say are tied to Rahami, prompting them to immediately drop the bag in the middle of the street and call police, according to reports and the New Jersey State Police.
 

Audioboxer

Member
See, this statement *is* Islamophobia.

Because no, that isn't the difference at all. Because sane Muslims can largely just ignore criticism coming at their doctrine without losing their shit and getting violent.

I only used the word 'SANE' to anyone following along, because Audioboxer said 'Sane people don't do that.' when I said we needed to be careful with our language because we don't want to incite violence against innocent Muslims, which is something ISIS *want* to happen.

ISIS want America to persecute Muslims. They want President Trump. They want every Muslim that isn't part of their crusade to suffer. They kill far more Muslims than they kill anyone else.

Regular every day Muslims are arguably their prime targets, one way or another (either for recruitment or to attack).

You will achieve nothing by criticizing what it says in the Quran. No outsider is going to get a holy book rewritten.

So you want to be an islamophobe without the moral opprobrium that comes with insulting 2 billion people.

You're not asking for open discourse according to your first paragraph, your asking permission to hate and discriminate.

So let me get something straight, do you two use the terms Christianophobes, Catholicophobes, and even Scientologyophobes?

I hope you do because otherwise I'd be wondering why you treat one ideology more specially than the others. Maybe you can clear that up for me. If it's the ideology you subscribe to, then I guess that explains why, but if it is deal with the fact not everyone worships the same God as you, and many of us no God at all.

Moving on to my 2 cents, the term Islamophobia is largely used as a shutdown. It's used when you can't quite get away with calling someone racist because they aren't actually being racist. Although many these days are just throwing racist and Islamophobia together all over the place. It does scratch heads though considering the idea of being racist to an ideology is laughable. You literally cannot be racist to a holy book. I mean cmon, stop that idiocy.

Now being racist to a person for mocking their skin colour/calling them inferior, you know, real racism, that is what you call someone a racist for. But as I said above the "smarter" left wing regressives realise they can't get away with calling someone who criticises the Islamic doctrine a racist, so they have to go with Islamophobia to make the media gasp and attack the person. With this usually comes hordes on twitter dropping the Islamophobia tag and just calling the person racist.

As for me hating? I mean I guess you might class any sort of criticism as hate? I don't. I mean, I hate cheating, as my ex cheated on me and it was awful. So I guess I hate some things in life. I do however not have a violent bone in my body, nor an intention to incite any violence, and am a big believer in freedom of speech, religion and living your life behind closed doors however you want as long as it doesn't hurt others. Problem here is the doctrine of Islam like the Bible has a shit ton of disgusting passages and passages which people believe literally. As I said earlier in the topic though not much killing is done in the name of the Bible these days. It most certainly was hundreds of years ago with the crusades. Blood baths. Mass killings, raping, pillaging and torturing. Not so much these days.

We live in the current times, the times that have our share of problems. Not the times of history gone by, and while history should always be remembered and in many cases never repeated, you don't make something history by allowing it to keep on continuing without honest discussion, criticism and in some cases downright ridicule and disgust. I'll repeat, sane religious people at worst get a little upset or offended when their beliefs are mocked, but they stop at that. The insane take offence to the level of violence, killing and in some countries creating laws to discriminate (LGBT laws, women treated as slaves, women beaten, female genital mutilation and sewing shut of vaginas, marrying and sex with children, and the list goes on). All of that is largely done either because they literally take from a given holy book, or they want to shutdown and completely eradicate freedoms of belief/religion and keep everyone in line.
 

Jeels

Member
Lol @ people cherry picking verses from the Quran as if that's the solution here.

People don't need the Quran (or the Bible for that matter) to do crazy stuff. See all the mass shooters.

Yes, it's Islamophobic. Muslims represent ~1% of the US population and have very little political sway because they are spread across so many racial and ethnic lines.
 

chadskin

Member


via https://twitter.com/BuffingActions/status/777889012824567808/photo/1
 
How do we know they are thieves? They saw a backpack just lying around and grabbed it. Then they called the police. How are they thieves?

Did they call the cops and say, "Yo. Thief here. I stole this backpack but found a bomb in it."

??
 
Religion has no will of its own. It's dead text (at least, if we're talking Abrahamic). Religious violence is really political violence that uses religious ideology as its justification. And as we've seen, political violence is exacerbated by geopolitical instability. If you want to see terrorism linked with other Abrahamic religions, you only have to look as far back as the Jewish terrorism between WWII and the foundation of Israel, the attacks on abortion clinics in the US, the acts of the KKK, and the violence carried out by Christian militias in the Central African Republic in 2014.

Where is most of the political instability in the world right now? Africa and the Middle East. Where are the strongest extremist groups located? Where is peaceful political process most likely to fail? Same places.

My opinion is that focusing on religion as a motivator of violence is just a way to fight a culture war and distracts from the bigger problem of general instability.

While geopolitics plays a small part in ISIS's agenda, it's predominantly religious and they will vehemently tell you the same thing as seen in their latest propaganda magazine. Apparently they're sick of people in the West making excuses for them and blaming their actions on geopolitical instability, giving them excuses they never even asked for.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/isis-explains-their-hatred-western-society-latest-dabiq-propaganda-magazine-1573868

The extremist group's magazine also features a piece titled "Why We Hate You and Why We Fight You", which targets "apostate Imams" in the West, who have rejected the Islamic State's (Isis or Daesh) views and refused to classify the group's motivation and actions as being Islamic.

"Many Westerners, however, are already aware that claiming the attacks of the mujahidin to be senseless and questioning incessantly as to why we hate the West and why we fight them is nothing more than a political act and a propaganda tool," the article said.

"The politicians will say it regardless of how much it stands in opposition to facts and common sense just to garner as many votes as they can for the next election cycle."
 

Hoo-doo

Banned
How do we know they are thieves? They saw a backpack just lying around and grabbed it. Then they called the police. How are they thieves?

Did they call the cops and say, "Yo. Thief here. I stole this backpack but found a bomb in it."

??


Well, if you're just grabbing and emptying the contents of a backpack or suitcase that's on the street unattended, i'd call that stealing.
 
Glad they caught him alive.

Not being able to die a martyr is the #1 way to punish these creeps.

Let the interrogation begin and let him rot forever in jail.
 

Henkka

Banned
While geopolitics plays a small part in ISIS's agenda, it's predominantly religious and they will vehemently tell you the same thing as seen in their latest propaganda magazine. Apparently they're sick of people in the West making excuses for them and blaming their actions on geopolitical instability, giving them excuses they never even asked for.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/isis-explains-their-hatred-western-society-latest-dabiq-propaganda-magazine-1573868

Yep. The part where ISIS themselves directly addresses and refutes stuff that people like jiji are saying is eye-opening.

Sam Harris did a great podcast on it.

Anyway, good thing they caught the guy. He really looks like God's chosen warrior with his fat ass on the pavement.
 

Guevara

Member
Trump going hard this morning:

Two days after a homemade bomb wounded 29 in lower Manhattan, the Republican presidential nominee decried Muslim refugees as a “cancer from within” and suggested that American law enforcement should racially profile Arab men, as they do in Israel (where many such men live under military occupation).

“Our local police, they know who a lot of these people are. They’re afraid to do anything about it because they don’t want to be accused of profiling,” Donald Trump told Fox & Friends Monday morning. “You know, in Israel they profile. They’ve done an unbelievable job, as good as you can do.”
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/09/trump-after-nyc-bombs-we-need-racial-profiling.html
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom