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NFL QB Colin Kaepernick sits during Nat. Anthem; cites America's oppression of POC

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atr0cious

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else.

For real, calling Hillary or any presidential choice in history the "lesser of two evils" at one point was basic political talk. I don't know how it's gotten this heated here.
You keep going back to the past, when every other activist is yelling that this is not the time for that dumb language. We know how broken the system is, I have a slave name, and since I wear a name tag at work, get reminded everyday when some white person goes all gaga and asks what culture its from. I will not allow for laziness and nonchalance when we finally have someone talking about our issues as fundamentals in her campaign, something Obama couldn't do outside of code words. We have a chance to fill the supreme court for 30 years ensuring generations to come with tolerant views and beliefs ingrained in them from better schools amd housing. But the most important figure of our time is to busy playing illuminati brother to actual weaponize and harness the black vote to not only elect a progressive president, but on the local level, fighting against gerrymandered districts. But that won't happen if kap can't even do real research past headlines.
 
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I'm going to vote this election, but it is merely symbolic. I'm a blue speck in a massively red state. Majority of black people live in the South where there is no way our votes will carry these states. To the cynic, it's in effect saying 'trust the system!' when the system as is actively works against black interests. I can't say they are wholly wrong.
Yes! This is what I mean about how people's perspectives on politics can be so different than simple "we have to vote Democrat against the Republican" causes.

I spent decades growing up in the southeast in a 40% black city that hasn't known anything other than Republicans leading them in their highest offices. For them, politics isn't anything near as simple as "vote Hillary for positive change!" Their vote means jack shit for them, and always will. So then, now what? What does this mean for them and how they perceive politics or even just arguments like this about politics? I don't think the Hillary defenders in here are thinking about this perspective, though.
 

JustenP88

I earned 100 Gamerscore™ for collecting 300 widgets and thereby created Trump's America
Aug 25, 2014
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See, a lack of critical thinking on full display.

Not much to think about here. You guys are just on your insufferable, crazy, "berate one poster because if you're not #IMWITHHER then you're pretty much a segregationist" shit again...

Feel free to carry on dragging this thread into the ground over this. You do it almost everywhere else.
 

VendettaRed07

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I recognize this election is a referendum on Progressivism going forward, but people aren't going to fit in a box because the 'stakes are too high'. If you want a system tweak/reform MLK style, Melo and Lebron and the NBA got you. Kaep is distinguishing himself to be the Carmichael to their MLK-esque talking points.

I think there is place for both. It is fair to say that even if Hillary is elected, she is apart of the same political box as the republicans. The left side of the box might be nicer to us, but it still is the same box. It is the box that gives equal value to those that obstruct equality, where 'hands are tied' because they don't have the votes. It's how the system works.

But can we really blame the person that sees these politicians' ineffectiveness and say D or R isn't going to change anything?

I'm going to vote this election, but it is merely symbolic. I'm a blue speck in a massively red state. Majority of black people live in the South where there is no way our votes will carry these states. To the cynic, it's in effect saying 'trust the system!' when the system as is actively works against black interests. I can't say they are wholly wrong.


It's understandable that people are frustrated with the process and how they haven't seen change; but paying attention to the details is important.

Poisoning people's image of Washington and pushing people away from voting and thinking both are just as bad is the Republican strategy. Because they win if that happens.

The difference between the two isn't any more clear when you consider the Supreme Court justices Bill and Obama appointed vs the ones Republicans have appointed and will appoint. It's almost like on every single issue GOP justices have voted to screw over minorities at every opportunity and the liberal justices voted in favor of protecting minorities rights.

Being on the verge of an actual liberal court swing, we could see even more progress really shortly, because for the most part we have had a conservative court for the past several decades. Like we could see actual, significant changes in a court with a 5-4, 6-3 liberal swing.
 

Mesousa

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No he didn't. Because to recognize means he at least educated himself in the candidates. He obviously didn't do that, because he wouldn't come out saying that lame ass both sides shit.
No i care she's publicly taking on the first step to true racial healing instead of just going to march every weekend for the rest of my life. I'd rather go for a real change maker, who despite being the most powerful woman in America and getting all the shit that comes with that in this sexist society, is still able to do what she can for us. I'm not gonna let some uninformed "hero" spout off about maybe the first time in history to enact real change for black Americans. If he cares about black Americans, including those who got beat just to exercise the right to vote with no chance of change, it's his absolute responsibility to tell every black American who now seems him as that next step for equal standing to vote.

Actually it is very educated to maintain that both sides are represent the same system he is fighting against, and even more educated to realize he has to vote for the lesser evil.

You seem disappointed his revolution does not match what you want.
 

DontBeThatGuy

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I recognize this election is a referendum on Progressivism going forward, but people aren't going to fit in a box because the 'stakes are too high'. If you want a system tweak/reform MLK style, Melo and Lebron and the NBA got you. Kaep is distinguishing himself to be the Carmichael to their MLK-esque talking points.

I think there is place for both. It is fair to say that even if Hillary is elected, she is apart of the same political box as the republicans. The left side of the box might be nicer to us, but it still is the same box. It is the box that gives equal value to those that obstruct equality, where 'hands are tied' because they don't have the votes. It's how the system works.

But can we really blame the person that sees these politicians' ineffectiveness and say D or R isn't going to change anything?

I'm going to vote this election, but it is merely symbolic. I'm a blue speck in a massively red state. Majority of black people live in the South where there is no way our votes will carry these states. To the cynic, it's in effect saying 'trust the system!' when the system as is actively works against black interests. I can't say they are wholly wrong.

We need people to become aware of how essential voting actually is, at all levels of government, and the change that can come from that should be one hell of a motivating factor. You're not seeing police reform, or gun reform, or overturning citizens united, or better healthcare, or any great cause without everyone voting their asses off. Obama got neutered real quick because of the unaware and unmotivated or the pessimistic or the cynical, all of which lead to a road to nowhere.
 

atr0cious

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Actually it is very educated to maintain that both sides are represent the same system he is fighting against, and even more educated to realize he has to vote for the lesser evil.
If you've ignored everything said this election, yes I guess it could be seen as being educated. The supreme court will fundamentally change the country, and Hillary has said what her plans are. You insult yourself and others when you spout that both sides nonsense. And this spits on the efforts of voting activist who died for our right to vote.

I'm disappointed he doesn't have what it takes to lead a revolution.
 

Big Baybee

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Not much to think about here. You guys are just on your insufferable, crazy, "berate one poster because if you're not #IMWITHHER then you're pretty much a segregationist" shit again...

Feel free to carry on dragging this thread into the ground over this. You do it almost everywhere else.
If he is going to put himself out there as the face of a movement that represents my community, then he should be politically informed. Not going to apologize for wanting Kaep not to say dumb both sides bullshit.
 

DontBeThatGuy

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Not much to think about here. You guys are just on your insufferable, crazy, "berate one poster because if you're not #IMWITHHER then you're pretty much a segregationist" shit again...

Feel free to carry on dragging this thread into the ground over this. You do it almost everywhere else.

Your shit-posting presence in this thread has been duly noted.
 

atr0cious

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If he is going to put himself out there as the face of a movement that represents my community, then he should be politically informed. Not going to apologize for wanting Kaep not to say dumb both sides bullshit.

For real, the arguments that he's just a football player with a limited audience are invalid, he's a black icon who stood up to whites in the middle of their own fellatio session. But when he starts speaking on political issues and starts essentially depressing the black vote, he needs to shut the fuck up and learn about what he's speaking on or stand up with the rest during the national anthem.
 

Mesousa

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If you've ignored everything said this election, yes I guess it could be seen as being educated. The supreme court will fundamentally change the country, and Hillary has said what her plans are. You insult yourself and others when you spout that both sides nonsense. And this spits on the efforts of voting activist who died for our right to vote.

I'm disappointed he doesn't have what it takes to lead a revolution.

That is from YOUR point of view though of the current situation. Obviously that isnt the reality he, and many other BLM members, see.

You fundamentally seem to have a different objective than Kaep. The important thing to remember is that there is room for everybody in the fight for what we want.
 

Yaboosh

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This is a fascinating turn of events in the Kaep saga.

It is so surprising that folks are abandoning him because he thinks Hillary isn't the perfect candidate.
 

Big Baybee

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There was no "both sides."
Yea, that's pretty much what he said. Who is less racist, who is less evil. Like, I know Hillarys past and she is not a goddamn racist lol. All I'm asking is for him to chill on the dumb statements.
This is a fascinating turn of events in the Kaep saga.

It is so surprising that folks are abandoning him because he thinks Hillary isn't the perfect candidate.
Who is abandoning him?
 

atr0cious

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You fundamentally seem to have a different objective than Kaep.

This is where people can validly bring up him making millions so he has not sweat off his back if this oppression continues at its current course. He will be able to shelter himself, while most others won't. We share the same goal of equality, but Kap is working on a much longer timeline, while those actually affected that he supposedly cares about are telling people to enact change by voting. Mothers of the Movement group was essentially inspired by Hillary and now they're pushing for her. You would think Kaep would listen to them.
This is a fascinating turn of events in the Kaep saga.

It is so surprising that folks are abandoning him because he thinks Hillary isn't the perfect candidate.

No one said this, we have issues with him using right wing lies in his ignorance. The argument is that everything he's talking about and wants to have happen is currently in one candidates plans, but he literally said she was still evil.
 

Ryzaki009

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This is a fascinating turn of events in the Kaep saga.

It is so surprising that folks are abandoning him because he thinks Hillary isn't the perfect candidate.

Is it really surprising though? The purity tests are always fun to watch. *eats popcorn*
 

phanphare

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Aug 21, 2013
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This is where people can validly bring up him making millions so he has not sweat off his back if this oppression continues at its current course. He will be able to shelter himself, while most others won't. We share the same goal of equality, but Kap is working on a much longer timeline, while those actually affected that he supposedly cares about are telling people to enact change by voting. Mothers of the Movement group was essentially inspired by Hillary and now they're pushing for her. You would think Kaep would listen to them.

this is a disgusting post, good god
 

Big Baybee

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"He will be able to shelter himself," poster says of American celebrity receiving death threats for taking a stand publicly.
No one is taking that away from him. I love what he did, but taking a knee is not enough. Sorry if me wanting him to encourage my community to vote for the candidate who is vocally on their side instead of pretending she is a slightly less racist version of Trump upsets so many here. This is a critical fucking election in case people haven't noticed.
 

phanphare

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Yea disgusting that I don't like a black icon supressing the black vote. How dare me critque him!? I thought we were allowed to do that to those we like?

there's critiquing him and there's what you just did

never mind the fact that he isn't suppressing the black vote. on the contrary his words were that "you have to pick the lesser of two evils". hone in on the "you have to pick" part and realize that it's completely different from, say, "fuck it, everybody stay home".

yall are getting so worked up over the fact that he used the phrase "lesser of two evils", I just don't get it. it seems like he's voting for hillary. it seems like he's encouraging others to do the same. however because he doesn't jump high enough on your command he can just "shut the fuck up" to use your words. get out of here.
 

atr0cious

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"He will be able to shelter himself," poster says of American celebrity receiving death threats for taking a stand publicly.

Yes, if Hillary isn't elected and we go off the deep end, financially, he's got a way better chance of going through the defunding of welfare, healthcare, education and more. I don't know where he lives, but its for damn sure better than Stop 6 in Texas or even Fruitvale, CA.
Do you mean the purity test posters are applying to Kaepernick or the one he's applying to Clinton?

Pretty much. People are denigrating her because of a mistake that isn't at all reflected in her 30 year career and suggesting that 30 year career was all just pandering.
 

Mesousa

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This is where people can validly bring up him making millions so he has not sweat off his back if this oppression continues at its current course. He will be able to shelter himself, while most others won't. We share the same goal of equality, but Kap is working on a much longer timeline, while those actually affected that he supposedly cares about are telling people to enact change by voting. Mothers of the Movement group was essentially inspired by Hillary and now they're pushing for her. You would think Kaep would listen to them.

No one said this, we have issues with him using right wing lies in his ignorance. The argument is that everything he's talking about and wants to have happen is currently in one candidates plans, but he literally said she was still evil.

The money thing is a valid complaint, and along with the fact that he was raised in a white environment probably also plays a role in the expectations he might have compared to average black people.

Hopefully he is able to talk to others to gain some insight on this side, that he doesnt have.
 

atr0cious

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Hopefully he is able to talk to others to gain some insight on this side, that he doesnt have.

This is pretty much detractors only issue right now. He can do everything he wants, but he appears disingenuous about his cause when the presidential candidate is leaning openly without code words on his issue, and he calls them evil. The president can't even enact change on a state by state basis, but can put into place the necessary funds and tools needed to reach those goals. Him showing he's not aware of this is what's frustrating. And by saying they're both evil, he's validating right wing strategies of shutting down the government to spite obama to suppress voter turnout, because they think their vote doesn't matter.

Hillary should invite him for a private talk and ask what he wants done. She can't promise it will happen but he can see her heart more clearly up close than through a media filter.
 

Dude Abides

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Yes, absolutely, and no one has suggested differently?

Well, you seem a bit put out by the fact that people are criticizing him for making false and glib statements.

Also, could you please tell me why you think he's a revolutionary (other than the t-shirts) rather than someone protesting one particular issue. I have googled for examples him advocating for the replacement of capitalism or overthrowing the government and come up empty, but I may have missed this.
 

atr0cious

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never mind the fact that he isn't suppressing the black vote. on the contrary his words were that "you have to pick the lesser of two evils". hone in on the "you have to pick" part and realize that it's completely different from, say, "fuck it, everybody stay home".
You should actually listen to what he said. He said his friend was saying the lesser of two evils, and he responded that even if they're the lesser of two evils, they're still evil. That's what an illuminati brother says right before he talks about not voting. His words matter, you saying they don't, doesn't change his influence on young black America.
 
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You should actually listen to what he said. He said his friend was saying the lesser of two evils, and he responded that even if they're the lesser of two evils, they're still evil. That's what an illuminati brother says right before he talks about not voting. His words matter, you saying they don't, doesn't change his influence on young black America.
Yikes.
 

phanphare

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Aug 21, 2013
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You should actually listen to what he said. He said his friend was saying the lesser of two evils, and he responded that even if they're the lesser of two evils, they're still evil. That's what an illuminati brother says right before he talks about not voting. His words matter, you saying they don't, doesn't change his influence on young black America.

I did and, to me at least, he's still saying you have to pick the lesser of two evils he's just commenting further and saying it's a shame we're in this situation to begin with
 
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This thread is talking past each other at this point.

Southern blacks (the majority of black in America) have no power to vote Hillary in office. Whether it is due to targeted voter suppression laws, the amount of us who can't vote because they have a felony, to there simply not being enough of us to carry enough weight to tip any type of balance. Downballot or not, this is the case more often than not.

Kaep saying, "Go vote!" doesn't do a thing in this situation.

We need people to become aware of how essential voting actually is, at all levels of government, and the change that can come from that should be one hell of a motivating factor. You're not seeing police reform, or gun reform, or overturning citizens united, or better healthcare, or any great cause without everyone voting their asses off. Obama got neutered real quick because of the unaware and unmotivated or the pessimistic or the cynical, all of which lead to a road to nowhere.

This post is admirable at face value, and is a fair point in the North where you have white liberals to back you. Those barely exist down here. There are white moderates (the ones that aren't racist, but won't go out of their way to stop systemic racism and will happily benefit from all the privileges there-in). Then you have the "Heritage, not hate!" whites that, well, you know...

When you say vote and let your voice be heard, the response is deafening. Trump has a 98% chance to win my state. While Nashville will be a little liberal bastion with a couple Blue districts and a liberal mayor, we are looking at this.



Vote to Make a Difference™ has no meaning when that is what you face. It lessens Kaep's message if that is his conclusion IMO.
 

atr0cious

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This thread is talking past each other at this point.

Southern blacks (the majority of black in America) have no power to vote Hillary in office. Whether it is due to targeted voter suppression laws, the amount of us who can't vote because they have a felony, to there simply not being enough of us to carry enough weight to tip any type of balance. Downballot or not, this is the case more often than not.

Kaep saying, "Go vote!" doesn't do a thing in this situation.



This post is admirable at face value, and is a fair point in the North where you have white liberals to back you. Those barely exist down here. There are white moderates (the ones that aren't racist, but won't go out of their way to stop systemic racism and will happily benefit from all the privileges there-in. Then you have the "Heritage, not hate!" whites that, well, you know...

When you say vote and let your voice be heard, the response is deafening. Trump has a 98% chance to win my state. While Nashville will be a little liberal bastion with a couple Blue districts and a liberal mayor, we are looking at this.



Vote to Make a Difference™ has no meaning when that is what you face. It lessens Kaep's message if that is his conclusion IMO.
This has no bearing on what he actually said. If he said what you said, this thread wouldn't be like this. He took a stance and offered up both sides. Plus, people not in those 5 or so states should vote, which can empower an ally to change things for the South with policies. Besides the fact trumps racism is putting southern states in play. So southerners should go vote. I'll be in Texas end of October telling my family the same thing.
 
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This has no bearing on what he actually said. If he said what you said, this thread wouldn't be like this. He took a stance and offered up both sides. Plus, people not in those 5 or so states should vote, which can empower an ally to change things for the South with policies. Besides the fact trumps racism is putting southern states in play. So southerners should go vote. I'll be in Texas end of October telling my family the same thing.
He didn't say both sides anywhere.

It's fully possible to vote for someone and still think there's evil in that politician. Calling politicians and the government evil, and also saying Democrats represent a lesser evil, has been standard political discourse in America as long as I've been alive, and it's goofy that this thread has turned out like this because dude has an opinion.
 

mike6467

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He didn't say both sides anywhere.

It's fully possible to vote for someone and still think there's evil in that politician. Calling politicians and the government evil, and also saying Democrats represent a lesser evil, has been standard political discourse in America as long as I've been alive, and it's goofy that this thread has turned out like this because dude has an opinion.

I didn't expect it. Seems like an example of perfect being the enemy of good.
 
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I didn't expect it. Seems like an example of perfect being the enemy of good.
Thats a weird idiom to use in a situation where perfect ideals aren't stopping good things from happening. As pointed out, his words were stated in a way where you can assume he's voting for her but isn't happy about it.

Believe it or not, y'all, but lots of people were saying the same thing about Obama for his two elections. People were even comparing him to Hillary with the same "lesser of two evils" talk.
 

atr0cious

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He didn't say both sides anywhere.

It's fully possible to vote for someone and still think there's evil in that politician.
Calling politicians and the government evil, and also saying Democrats represent a lesser evil, has been standard political discourse in America as long as I've been alive, and it's goofy that this thread has turned out like this because dude has an opinion.

"Both
are proven liars...debate who's less racist..in the end its still evil."

What an endorsement for voting. And stop talking about the past, we are voting to shape the future this year.

Believe it or not, y'all, but lots of people were saying the same thing about Obama for his two elections. People were even comparing him to Hillary with the same "lesser of two evils" talk.

Yea because he didn't have a proven track record like her with years of service. It's the whole point of the community organizer nickname. He had to win over the black vote.
 

mike6467

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Thats a weird idiom to use in a situation where perfect ideals aren't stopping good things from happening. As pointed out, his words were stated in a way where you can assume he's voting for her but isn't happy about it.

Believe it or not, y'all, but lots of people were saying the same thing about Obama for his two elections. People were even comparing him to Hillary with the same "lesser of two evils" talk.

I was talking about the people who are basically telling Kaep to fuck off because of this one issue, not Kaep's statement.
 
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Kaepernick retweeted this link today, might help explain his position to some of you.

https://www.thenation.com/article/hillary-clinton-does-not-deserve-black-peoples-votes/

The very end is relevant to this thread:

The biggest problem with Bernie, in the end, is that he’s running as a Democrat—as a member of a political party that not only capitulated to right-wing demagoguery but is now owned and controlled by a relatively small number of millionaires and billionaires. Yes, Sanders has raised millions from small donors, but should he become president, he would also become part of what he has otherwise derided as “the establishment.” Even if Bernie’s racial-justice views evolve, I hold little hope that a political revolution will occur within the Democratic Party without a sustained outside movement forcing truly transformational change. I am inclined to believe that it would be easier to build a new party than to save the Democratic Party from itself.

Of course, the idea of building a new political party terrifies most progressives, who understandably fear that it would open the door for a right-wing extremist to get elected. So we play the game of lesser evils. This game has gone on for decades. W.E.B. Du Bois, the eminent scholar and co-founder of the NAACP, shocked many when he refused to play along with this game in the 1956 election, defending his refusal to vote on the grounds that “there is but one evil party with two names, and it will be elected despite all I do or say.” While the true losers and winners of this game are highly predictable, the game of lesser evils makes for great entertainment and can now be viewed 24 hours a day on cable-news networks. Hillary believes that she can win this game in 2016 because this time she’s got us, the black vote, in her back pocket—her lucky card.

She may be surprised to discover that the younger generation no longer wants to play her game. Or maybe not. Maybe we’ll all continue to play along and pretend that we don’t know how it will turn out in the end. Hopefully, one day, we’ll muster the courage to join together in a revolutionary movement with people of all colors who believe that basic human rights and economic, racial, and gender justice are not unreasonable, pie-in-the-sky goals. After decades of getting played, the sleeping giant just might wake up, stretch its limbs, and tell both parties: Game over. Move aside. It’s time to reshuffle this deck.



I was talking about the people who are basically telling Kaep to fuck off because of this one issue, not Kaep's statement.
Right on, that makes sense.
 

atr0cious

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White supremacy doesn't stop existing at the presidency. It includes it. Consider his perspective.

No shit, but Obama couldn't even touch that issue because he represents America's sin. Unfortunately, whites need their own to tell them the truth, its why heroin is just now an epidemic, its why white jesus Tim Wise exists, its why Hillary exists. Like I said before, MLK knows more about oppression and white supremacy than us, and not only did he vote, he didn't speak ill of JFK right when he had the most right to, and we got the Civil Rights Act four years later. We're accused of not empathizing with the oppressor all the time, but this is the way to get them to empathize with us. Having a presidential candidate agree with you about implicit bias, when the other side is straight saying we talk too much about racial issues, is a boon, and not something you should label as evil, especially with a highly religious group.
 

Mesousa

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This is pretty much detractors only issue right now. He can do everything he wants, but he appears disingenuous about his cause when the presidential candidate is leaning openly without code words on his issue, and he calls them evil. The president can't even enact change on a state by state basis, but can put into place the necessary funds and tools needed to reach those goals. Him showing he's not aware of this is what's frustrating. And by saying they're both evil, he's validating right wing strategies of shutting down the government to spite obama to suppress voter turnout, because they think their vote doesn't matter.

Hillary should invite him for a private talk and ask what he wants done. She can't promise it will happen but he can see her heart more clearly up close than through a media filter.

If she held a private talk with him it would be nothing but lip service, and we both know this.

Lets get real, black people are going to vote for her no matter what simply because the other side is the greater evil as Kaepernick mentions. Anything she says won't need to be done because as a voting block she will always have this group. This is the reality of accepting the lesser evil.
 
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