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Operation KKK Is Beginning To Unmask Hate Group Members

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T

TalonJH

Member
Pizarro said:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=517887

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=862816&page=2

George-Lincoln-Rockwell-and-members-of-the-American-Nazi-Party-attend-a-Nation-of-Islam-summit-in-1961-to-hear-Malcolm-X-speak.jpg
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Gotta do what you gotta do. Lol
 
M

mkenyon

Banned
jhmtehgamr20xx said:
In this particular case, the idea is to publicly list individuals part of organizations that encourage behavior that directly harms marginalized, disenfranchised groups. No different than listing a sex offender's status so the family across the block can make sure they don't have their children play around that person's yard.
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The major problem with this analogy, is that sex offenders have broken the law. Being a racist douchebag is not against the law. That is thought crime, and a fucking awful precedent to set.
 
M

mkenyon

Banned
I suppose, they're both morally wrong. Racism is pop cultural taboo. It's seen as backwards, harmful, and something that humanity needs to move past. We are trying, and making progress. Social movements and progress happen slowly over time, and if done through cultural pressure and more organic processes, will eventually stick.

The thought that racist people don't deserve privacy at all sacrifices the morals and concepts that underline modern society for the sake of moving past racism faster, through a breach of a fundamental right of privacy.

Beyond that, it promotes the concept of thought crime. As in, these people are deserving of an illegal act because they think or feel a certain way. What that thing is, doesn't matter. It's the principle that they're being illegally breached for something that they think.

Just replace the proper nouns with others, and you see where this concept starts to get ugly.

Racism is gross. Don't get me wrong. I'm just of the opinion that an organization, such as the KKK, can be dealt with through legal channels. I mean, it has. Its cultural relevance and real existing threat to disenfranchised populations has been drastically reduced over the years.

To further drag not only KKK members, but all people who are potentially racist, into the concept that they deserve absolutely no privacy because they're racists, seems absolutely dangerous to modern society.
 
J

jhmtehgamr20xx

Banned
mre said:
Socializing the legal system is not implementing "selective tenants of socialism."

This doesn't address the overburdening of government attorneys. We've all heard stories of criminal defendants who are urged to take guilty pleas after meeting with a public defender for 5 minutes. Do you think this situation would be any better in the civil sector? Who decides how much each side can spend on their case? Is this the same amount for all cases regarding of the complexity?

This is totally different from your theory of holding an employer responsible for the torts of their employees who are members of hate groups. In one case, the employee's actions occur while in the process of carrying out the terms of the employment. In the other case, the employer is responsible just because.

The ideas you're trying to push in this thread are completely lacking any basis in reality.
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I wouldn't quite go that far, but I never said these were fully fleshed out ideas. They were literally just spur-of-the-moments. But - and this is my honest opinion - some of that is probably workable with some fine-tuning.

Failures of implementation of similar stuff in the past shouldn't rule out improved versions in the future; it took a while for democracy to actually work in America on the level it should have, for example, but you didn't see America suddenly throw that away for a dictatorship simply because the first couple of centuries were flawed.

mkenyon said:
I suppose, they're both morally wrong. Racism is pop cultural taboo. It's seen as backwards, harmful, and something that humanity needs to move past. We are trying, and making progress. Social movements and progress happen slowly over time, and if done through cultural pressure and more organic processes, will eventually stick.

The thought that racist people don't deserve privacy at all sacrifices the morals and concepts that underline modern society for the sake of moving past racism faster, through a breach of a fundamental right of privacy.

Beyond that, it promotes the concept of thought crime. As in, these people are deserving of an illegal act because they think or feel a certain way. What that thing is, doesn't matter. It's the principle that they're being illegally breached for something that they think.

Just replace the proper nouns with others, and you see where this concept starts to get ugly.

Racism is gross. Don't get me wrong. I'm just of the opinion that an organization, such as the KKK, can be dealt with through legal channels. I mean, it has. Its cultural relevance and real existing threat to disenfranchised populations has been drastically reduced over the years.

To further drag not only KKK members, but all people who are potentially racist, into the concept that they deserve absolutely no privacy because they're racists, seems absolutely dangerous to modern society.
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Privacy for what? To act like dinosaurs in the 21st century with backwards rhetoric? They are already guaranteed freedom of speech (if they want to be bigots, they have the right to be. But others have the right to ostracize them because of it), and have pretty much the same rights and privacy as any other citizen. What you're calling an "invasion of privacy" would be like saying a sex offender deserves to have their past hidden from neighbors with children in the neighborhood because of "privacy concerns". Which is pretty much the same thing as condoning their ability to be a sex offender in private without concerned parents being aware; next thing you know their child ends up a victim, the sex offender is jailed, serves time, released and their info isn't put out there so they can move to the next neighborhood full of potential victims.

The idea of a "thought crime" is ludicrous. When have I or anyone else in this thread said racist deserve to be punished for thinking racist thoughts? The argument is that if someone has been proven to be a member of a hate crime group, at the very least that should be a precaution in preventing them from taking occupations where they can affect the people they apparently hate, negatively. If that same person then does something that brings harm to an individual either physically, emotionally, or financially, they should be trailed and punished. It's no different from currently existing laws, the motives are just laid out more clearly on onus of the offender.

Read through the thread again, and try to pull up examples of anyone who was in support of thought crimes other than as a joking (or ill-informed jokingly) manner. You won't find any.

mkenyon said:
The major problem with this analogy, is that sex offenders have broken the law. Being a racist douchebag is not against the law. That is thought crime, and a fucking awful precedent to set.
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Well it's a good thing I'm not saying people should be thrown into prison for harboring racist ideals. Good thing I don't believe in thought crimes. Good thing I'm actually for freedom of speech, even when it makes the person backwards, and I don't conflate that with privacy.

Joni said:
Except that it has been proven rebuttals don't work, the first thought usually sticks and it completely pushes a guy down after which he can defend himself to get back up to where he was, hopefully. You're ignoring all possible repercussions just to defend cybercriminals. There are no good guys in this story, you have the awful racists and the awful criminals.


That is a pointless difference in this entire discussion. I want to avoid the idea where you just accuse people at random and have them defend their honor, no matter the court.
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I couldn't give two blanks about cybercriminals. Ever since my second post in this thread I've been arguing on something beyond the thread topic, but folks seem to keep thinking my points are explicitly about this Operation KKK thing. No, it's about the general idea of a licensed, professional organizational branch of government that would list known members of hate groups publicly, ESPECIALLY if they've committed acts that have (with accompanying evidence) harmed individuals of other ethnic or religious groups, be it physically, emotionally, or financially.

It is no different than the gov't listing the status of sex offenders and terrorists to the public. I mean, hate group members ARE terrorists ffs!!
 
A

antonz

Member
List seems pointless. Nothing of any real substance. Looks like they basically googled people who openly belong to groups and listed them as if they are exposing some big secret.
 
S

Sho_Nuff82

Member
So was the early fake list dispensed to try and discredit the new official list?

I don't agree with doxxing (no one deserves to have their personal contact information dumped on the web), but affiliation I could see being quite enlightening.
 
bengraven

bengraven

Member
If you're proud to be white and American and proud to support white "rights" then don't be embarrassed about your affiliations.
 
T

TalonJH

Member
The people that I looked up that live near by are obvious. They post pictures of their Swastika tattoos and racist memes. Disappointing, lol.
 
L

Lonestar

I joined for Erin Brockovich discussion
Not said:
This is why I love digital anonymity, for all its missteps
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These don't even look like anonymous people. The large majority of names, has a link to a facebook with full names and obvious postings of KKK/White Power/racist diatribe.
 
N

Not

Banned
Lonestar said:
These don't even look like anonymous people. The large majority of names, has a link to a facebook with full names and obvious postings of KKK/White Power/racist diatribe.
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I was talking about Anonymous, not the KKK? And I wasn't being sarcastic.
 
V

Visualante2

Member
List is out. BBC posted a fairly critical report citing a spelling mistake in one person's name and focusing on the fake lists.
Mark Pitcavage, director of the US Anti-Defamation League's Center on Extremism, told Vice News it was "low-hanging fruit, basically public source information. For most of these people it's not a secret that they've been in the Klan."
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It does seem to be largely public social media harvesting.
 
Ray Wonder

Ray Wonder

Founder of the Wounded Tagless Children
Visualante2 said:
List is out. BBC posted a fairly critical report citing a spelling mistake in one person's name and focusing on the fake lists.

It does seem to be largely public social media harvesting.
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Just by looking at the people on the list, like 90% of them I would've just been able to guess by the posts they make.
 
S

Shredderi

Member
Can't support this. There will be collateral damage, innocent people will be wrongly accused and lives will be ruined. I mean it's a good cause but shit tends to happen.
 
A

Arkeband

Banned
I had an ex-coworker of mine post on facebook about this yesterday, with him wearing an Anonymous mask saying "the operation is about to start!" with two laptops open in front of him.

I wanted to ask if part of anonymous was making yourself as public as humanly possible but I didn't want to legitimize his hacker cred.

I'm still debating posting "...You want me to hack the planet?" as a response, though.
 
M

Mammoth Jones

Member
I'm not worried about the privacy of racists. What does concern me deeply is the accuracy of the list.

What happens when someone who's not in the KKK gets outed as being in the KKK?
 
Ray Wonder

Ray Wonder

Founder of the Wounded Tagless Children
Dude what if you looked at that list and you were on there somehow.. How would you feel?
 
M

Mammoth Jones

Member
CapitalismSucks DonkeyBalls said:
People will be irate for a week and then no one will care. Just like everything else.
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That's it? No big deal? No concerns about the moral implications of falsely accusing people of being a member of the KKK and the damage that could do to their reputation? Would you feel the same way if it were another type of accusation but something vile as well?

I mean I'm all for KKK members getting their comeuppance but we need to ensure that there's actual proof of such affiliations before other whip out their pitchforks.
 
C

CapitalismSucks DonkeyBalls

Banned
Mammoth Jones said:
That's it? No big deal? No concerns about the moral implications of falsely accusing people of being a member of the KKK and the damage that could do to their reputation?
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Look at our society and the other atrocious things that have happened that just get forgotten about after the pot boils over. Remember that dude that shot that lion illegally? He was back in business two weeks after we all got up in arms. It's just a cyclical pattern of reactions.

I'm guilty of it too. There's so much negative shit that gets pumped out by the media that I don't know what to care about week after week.
 
S

SenorArdilla

Member
Arkeband said:
I had an ex-coworker of mine post on facebook about this yesterday, with him wearing an Anonymous mask saying "the operation is about to start!" with two laptops open in front of him.

I wanted to ask if part of anonymous was making yourself as public as humanly possible but I didn't want to legitimize his hacker cred.

I'm still debating posting "...You want me to hack the planet?" as a response, though.
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nphaHny.gif
 
D

drtomoe123

Member
Mammoth Jones said:
I'm not worried about the privacy of racists. What does concern me deeply is the accuracy of the list.

What happens when someone who's not in the KKK gets outed as being in the KKK?
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Take a look at the list. Better yet, take a look at some of the Facebook profiles and Google Groups in the list.
 
K

Kenai

Member
animlboogy said:
All this handwringing over people being wrongly outed and we get a list of open racists with swastika tattoos.
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Yea....

Not really a fan of the very real potential for innocent people to be harmed by this, but the people I have looked at so far weren't trying to hide anything at all. I'm not really sure how I feel about the internet shaming racists, because while I don't feel sorry for the racists per se, I also feel like they might not actually learn anything and become better people. I want them to become better people due to realizing what they are doing is wrong and the harm they are causing others, not simply because someone told them so.

That being said, maybe it will "matter" more now since their social circles didn't care/out them, so they were able to stay low key. Decent chance of a lot of people noticing and caring now...and if it means they aren't harming people with their racism out of fear of repercussion where there was none before, that I will not feel sorry about
 
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