Resetera reflects: This place sucks. We want GAF back.

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You have done no such thing with open debate or willing to engage in discussion. You make a claim, refuse to back it up and continuously make excuses as to why you shouldn't. You have put forth more effort in *not* providing the evidence you stated you had than posting the evidence and having a discussion.
As i have said, I have twice been asked to "provide receipts" and the first time I was ignored by the person entirely, the second I had most of them dismantled and told they weren't examples when they clearly were. And while this may have been about another topic, I have no interest in playing this game again in a forum where I'm clearly outnumbered. It's exhausting.

My comments regarding this place being right-leaning and a safer space for extreme right wing views as a mirror to Era being the opposite are reasonable.
 
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Why do so many of our British posters have an unhealthy obsession with American politics and a radical left viewpoint? It seems to be really, really common....
i feel like this is a consequence of political dialog in the age of social media. no longer is it just US media driving the discussions, you have people chiming in from all over the world. all the time. on every issue. instantaneously. most of the world is far more leftist than US thus you get people with different ideas of what to expect of the left vs. the realities US citizens have to deal with.

furthermore, the foreign online influence is somewhat disruptive, since foreign people mostly know about the US from media. thus we in the US get whatever picture of the US the media wants to put out to world (Dumb Americans), we get that reflected back on us, often in echo chambers, etc. while at the same time getting shamed for not being as woke as the rest of the world. maybe this is part of why purity politics are such a problem recently, the left eating itself because the world is comparatively more left than the US. add to that all kinds of old stereotypes brought up as strawmen, etc. it's really the shit hitting the fan.
 
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i feel like this is a consequence of political dialog in the age of social media. no longer is it just US media driving the discussions, you have people chiming in from all over the world. all the time. on every issue. instantaneously. most of the world is far more leftist than US thus you get people with different ideas of what to expect of the left vs. the realities US citizens have to deal with.

furthermore, the foreign online influence is somewhat disruptive, since foreign people mostly know about the US from media. thus we in the US get whatever picture of the US the media wants to put out to world (Dumb Americans), we get that reflected back on us, often in echo chambers, etc. maybe this is part of why purity politics are such a problem recently. add to that all kinds of old stereotypes brought up as strawmen, etc. it's really the shit hitting the fan.
Politics are global. People in the UK on the right often hold up America as examples. Precedents set by the US have a knock on effect cross the globe.

I don't know why people are suggesting a UK person shouldn't comment on US politics like it doesn't affect us at all.
 
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Cybrwzrd

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This kind of petty, needless comment is completely against the notion put forward by many ITT.

You want open debate, but when someone appears who is being honest about their opinion and wiling to engage, they get piled on.

I don't see how this is any different to Era in this regard.

And politics affects us globally, it's not an "unhealthy obsession" it's engagement.
I'm sorry, I really don't care what a non-citizen thinks about American internal politics. Just like I really don't give a shit about British politics. What happens in Britain doesn't affect my life.

And mind you, I consider myself to be a left leaning person in American politics - especially economically and politically. I may be a centrist these days when it comes to certain social issues because the left has moved the goalposts on me. It used to be that being for equal rights and against tribalism was a left leaning viewpoint....

I'm up for debate, but you follow the same pattern as other posters who proclaim to be the same thing do. And it is getting tiresome. So my patience with people who claim to be British and spout similar talking points is running out. Shit or get off the pot, as my Dad used to say. If you want to debate, put forth an argument with citations instead of falling back to fallacies and ambiguities.
 
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I mean, it's clear this has upset you somehow due to your use of language, or are you just having fun mocking me?
I didn't intend to mock you. I am allowed to respond to your use of "abhorrent", however. You should stop throwing around the word "clear" because you have an obsession with saying "such-and-such is clear" without actually providing any clarity. It's an empty modifier.

I've explained in previous posts why I'm here, I like to test my views against the opposition. I find the opposing views abhorant and that's inherent. The comments about "crossing myself" just seem redundant and a bit petty.

I've played this game twice.

First time I provided links the person outright ignored me. Second time the person just dismissed them all.

I've no interest in a third time.
Yet you asked me yesterday to prove my points (referenced below). Why is this any different?

Can you link to the post that revelled the info if you have it easily to hand please? Or is it easy to find last few pages?
When you say you've already posted evidence before, are you referring to this post? I see nothing in there pertaining to alt-right comments.

In either case, when you plainly state in several posts that there is a neo-Nazi, Confederate sympathizer, Holocaust denying, white supremacist element on GAF, it is by no means unusual to perk up and ask "oh really? Where?"

And your own blind spot is showing. I've literally explained this above. There are clear alt-right voices on this forum and I know you know this.
You know that I know this? No, I don't. That is why I keep asking for you to point out the sort of posts that are bothering you.

What's strange is that you've gone from "this site leans right" to "this site has a clear alt-right presence" in a matter of days. Surely you must've seen explicit examples that have led you to such a drastic shift in opinion in such a short time.

Much like Era is a safer space for more extreme left-wing views, Gaf is a safer space for the opposite. It's very naive to deny this.

Is it a haven? No.

Is it a safer pace they will take a liking to? Naive to suggest otherwise given the history of this place.

I don't know what to say, if you truly think that this place won't attract these people, or that they're not here after browsing the politics forum, I think we should agree to disagree.
That's not what I am saying at all. Please stop framing my argument in a way that appears to support your own. You keep saying "seems naive to deny..." but I'm not denying anything. I'm merely asking you to point examples out.

When you are asked to provide proof, saying "well it's naive to deny..." is a logical fallacy. You are implying that unless I agree with your standpoint, I am naive.

I'm asking you to help point out alt-right opinions so they can be argued against. Making this request is not the equivalent of naively believing the alt-right haven't invaded (??) the website.

Your own post about veganism kind of sums up how I feel about your posts about the alt-right:
This isn't true at all.

I'd like to read your sources so I can provide counter evidence please!

Sure, but they are a minority. It irks me a bit when people point at them like they're the standard is all.
 
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Dun, I feel we're going in circles here. I maintain the stance that I've reasonably presented my opinion regarding this, and I feel I've covered all the questions you've asked. We'll just be going in circles.

This place is right-leaning. I have come up against many talking points that fit with alt-right style thinking. If I list them, I'm certain I'll just be told they're not that or ignored as has happened before. And it's honestly exhausting.

Again, as this place is right-leaning it's going to attract more extreme right leaning voices, much like Era does the opposite. Claiming this place is immune to that is ridiculous, and if you can't browse the politics forum yourself and see what I mean then I don't know what to say.


I'm sorry, I really don't care what a non-citizen thinks about American internal politics. Just like I really don't give a shit about British politics. What happens in Britain doesn't affect my life.
This is just painfully untrue. Politics are global and affects us all.
 
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Your own post about veganism kind of sums up how I feel about your posts about the alt-right:
Sorry for the double post, but this makes no sense.

I'm not pointing at the extreme voices and calling them the standard. I've literally said the more reasonable voices are the standard. And I've explained why I'm not going to play the "receipts" game.

And I honestly think my opinions here are reasonable.
 

Cybrwzrd

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This is just painfully untrue. Politics are global and affects us all.
How? I disagree.

Does a tax cut in the US affect you? How about legalization of Marijuana? What about healthcare reform? Police violence? School shootings? Border security? How would any of these topics affect a non-citizen or someone who isn't trying to become a resident? Those are all internal issues. Sure, on a foreign policy basis it may matter to you in some existential way though the economy, but other than that, our internal problems are our own, and yours are your own, and frankly I don't care what your opinion is if you only get your talking points through the social media - international media telephone game.
 
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How? I disagree.

Does a tax cut in the US affect you? How about legalization of Marijuana? What about healthcare reform? Police violence? School shootings? Border security? How would any of these topics affect a non-citizen or someone who isn't trying to become a resident? Those are all internal issues. Sure, on a foreign policy basis it may matter to you in some existential way though the economy, but other than that, our internal problems are our own, and yours are your own, and frankly I don't care what your opinion is if you only get your talking points through the social media - international media telephone game.
Yes, for example many of these things set precidents which other places will follow. Many of these things helps shape voter opinion in the UK. I think it's very naive of you to suggest it has no effect to the extent you're claiming.

Ok. Then what is the extreme right wing checklist?
Well, before I do, what would you say it was? I'd like to get a feel for what you consider it is if I may, and I'll make this clear when I reply why I'm asking for you to go first.

I mean, you clearly have one for the left as is evident by this thread, so you must have one for the right too?
 
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Cybrwzrd

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May I ask what is the checklist for determining who is Alt Right?
Doesn't believe in the infinite spectrum of genders.
Believes in borders between nation states.
Doesn't subscribe to Inter-sectional tribal politics
Is neutral to or even supportive of Trump on occasion.

Yes, for example many of these things set precidents which other places will follow. Many of these things helps shape voter opinion in the UK. I think it's very naive of you to suggest it has no effect to the extent you're claiming.
Border security on an island nation the size of Michigan of sure can look to the US as an example of how to handle land borders.

Do you even have guns to have school shootings there? Police violence, is it a problem in England? Crime rates in England are pretty low compared to the US for many reasons - one of which I would say is that it is less diverse.

Tax cuts? i am pretty sure everyone wants a tax cut regardless of what other nations are doing. Maybe Marijuana, but hell, that's been legal in Amsterdam now for decades right? Do you really think the US will affect that?
 
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Doesn't believe in the infinite spectrum of genders.
Believes in borders between nation states.
Doesn't subscribe to Inter-sectional tribal politics
Is neutral to or even supportive of Trump on occasion.
Nope, but nice try.

Again, I'd like you to list what you think are the extreme views on the right that are the direct opposite - at the same level - of what we see on Era. So if this thread is an example of SJW madness on Era, what is the same example of that madness on the right? Specific examples please, as many as possible.

Ok. Then what is the extreme right wing checklist?
Well, before I do, what would you say it was? I'd like to get a feel for what you consider it is if I may, and I'll make this clear when I reply why I'm asking for you to go first.

If we can do this I'll be glad to take it further and provide receipts, and again I'll make it clear why I asked you to go first.
 
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Politics are global. People in the UK on the right often hold up America as examples. Precedents set by the US have a knock on effect cross the globe.

I don't know why people are suggesting a UK person shouldn't comment on US politics like it doesn't affect us at all.
i never said a UK person shouldn't comment. ofc everyone has their right to comment. im explaining why people outside the US seem to have a radical left viewpoint, because the global left is more liberal than the US left. of course politics are global but the sphere of discussion wasn't always global, pre-internet.

at any rate it's probably annoying to US posters bc we usually aren't talking about UK politics at all whereas they are chiming in on every thing that happens.
 
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Musky_Cheese

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Yes, for example many of these things set precidents which other places will follow. Many of these things helps shape voter opinion in the UK. I think it's very naive of you to suggest it has no effect to the extent you're claiming.



Well, before I do, what would you say it was? I'd like to get a feel for what you consider it is if I may, and I'll make this clear when I reply why I'm asking for you to go first.
Extreme right wing in the USA. Very hella small federal government, picky and choosy about certain rights for certain people, no restrictions on firearms of any kind, extremely free market. Lets start there.

Go ahead
 
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Dun, I feel we're going in circles here. I maintain the stance that I've reasonably presented my opinion regarding this, and I feel I've covered all the questions you've asked. We'll just be going in circles.

This place is right-leaning.
Right-leaning and alt-right are two different things. You've thrown both labels on the forum multiple times now.

You say you're on the Left. Would it be appropriate to call you a Stalinist? Would it be appropriate to say "heh, lots of Left-leaning people in here. Probably about to make excuses for Communist genocide or something..."? Of course not.

Are you unaware of what alt-right means? As soon as I asked about it, you return to simply saying "right -leaning" but that isn't the same.

I have come up against many talking points that fit with alt-right style thinking.
I actually don't know what "alt-right style thinking" even means. Supporting the Confederacy? Supporting Nazis? Supporting white supremacy? What would be "alt-right style thinking"?

If I list them, I'm certain I'll just be told they're not that or ignored as has happened before. And it's honestly exhausting.

Again, as this place is right-leaning it's going to attract more extreme right leaning voices, much like Era does the opposite. Claiming this place is immune to that is ridiculous,
I am not claiming it is immune to that. Who is claiming GAF is immune to that? Once again, you've resorted to a very simple-minded, easily-dismissed method of argument.

Here, let me try:

Claiming that you don't need to provide examples when I ask you to point out alt-right posts is basically admitting that I am correct and that all your opinions are incorrect.

See? I can make claims too. But instead of that, let's focus on the facts, shall we?

and if you can't browse the politics forum yourself and see what I mean then I don't know what to say..
Because you refuse to define your terms or explain what sort of posts you're seeing, does it not stand to reason that I would have difficulty seeing what you are talking about?

How could I browse the politics forum for myself and "see what you mean"?

This, again, is a non-argument based on nothing substantial. If I browse the politics forum and I don't see what you mean, then what does that mean about me? Am I delusional? Am I part of the echo-chamber? Am I a part of the alt-right?

Begging the question is not an argument.
 
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i never said a UK person shouldn't comment. ofc everyone has their right to comment. im explaining why people outside the US seem to have a radical left viewpoint, because the global left is more liberal than the US left. of course politics are global but the sphere of discussion wasn't always global, pre-internet.

at any rate it's probably annoying to US posters bc we usually aren't talking about UK politics at all whereas they are chiming in on every thing that happens.
What's happening here just confirmation bias. You get frustrated by the more radical left-wing opinions is all.

There is a fair amount of left-right viewpoints regarding US politics in the UK, trust me, I'm in the UK and the split is pretty even in my experience at least.


Extreme right wing in the USA. Very hella small federal government, picky and choosy about certain rights for certain people, no restrictions on firearms of any kind, extremely free market. Lets start there.

Go ahead
Please be specific with specific examples of opinions. Like can you write some sentences that fit in with those view points?
 
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Extreme right wing in the USA. Very hella small federal government, picky and choosy about certain rights for certain people, no restrictions on firearms of any kind, extremely free market. Lets start there.

Go ahead
I'm going to piss off some college professors here by using Wikipedia, but I like what their article has:

...Alternative right is a loosely connected and somewhat ill-defined grouping of white supremacists/white nationalists, Neo-Nazis, Neo-Fascists, Neo-Confederates, Holocaust deniers, and other far-right fringe hate groups.
 
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Right-leaning and alt-right are two different things. You've thrown both labels on the forum multiple times now.
Yes they are and no I have not. I've not once called his place alt-right by definition.


You say you're on the Left. Would it be appropriate to call you a Stalinist? Would it be appropriate to say "heh, lots of Left-leaning people in here. Probably about to make excuses for Communist genocide or something..."? Of course not.
Of course not.

Are you unaware of what alt-right means? As soon as I asked about it, you return to simply saying "right -leaning" but that isn't the same.
I am. In this context when talking about alt-right (which I did not bring up, btw), we're using it to highlight more extreme right wing opinion in the same way some of you use SJW to do the same on the left. It's as nebulous ans shaky as SJW is, so if y'all can use one I don't see how you can be so critical of the other.


I actually don't know what "alt-right style thinking" even means. Supporting the Confederacy? Supporting Nazis? Supporting white supremacy? What would be "alt-right style thinking"?
Ok, so, the opinions you see on Era that are "SJW madness", what are, in your opinon, the right's version of these things?

I am not claiming it is immune to that. Who is claiming GAF is immune to that? Once again, you've resorted to a very simple-minded, easily-dismissed method of argument.
No I'm not, because my entire argument i that more extreme right voices will naturally gravitate here due to the right-leaning tone. And that while currently the reasonable voices are the standard, there is an undertone of more extreme right wing opinion that is always going to exist in a place that leans to one side.

And these things do exist here, you can see them in the politics sub. If you really want me to point them out can we plaeae begin with you answering my question above?
 
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Cybrwzrd

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Specific examples please, as many as possible.
Coming from a guy who won't give examples..

But anyways- I tend to consider people with these viewpoints as being on the far right. I also don't find any of these views "abhorrent" just philosophical differences:

Abortion is murdering babies.
Invisible hand fixes all problems
Religion needs to be everywhere
Small government proponents (doesn't this one counteract the one above?)
Guns shouldn't be regulated
Gay Marriage is a sin
etc.

And there are the are the crazy ones - but I don't consider them to be the same group. I tend to think they are morons.
White genocide believers
Holocaust Deniers
etc.
 
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Yes they are and no I have not. I've not once called his place alt-right by definition.




Of course not.



I am. In this context when talking about alt-right (which I did not bring up, btw), we're using it to highlight more extreme right wing opinion in the same way some of you use SJW to do the same on the left. It's as nebulous ans shaky as SJW is, so if y'all can use one I don't see how you can be so critical of the other.




Ok, so, the opinions you see on Era that are "SJW madness", what are, in your opinon, the right's version of these things?



No I'm not, because my entire argument i that more extreme right voices will naturally gravitate here due to the right-leaning tone. And that while currently the reasonable voices are the standard, there is an undertone of more extreme right wing opinion that is always going to exist in a place that leans to one side.

And these things do exist here, you can see them in the politics sub. If you really want me to point them out can we plaeae begin with you answering my question above?
It seems to me that you just showed up one day recently and started complaining immediately. Some of your complaints are valid but others are obviously because you haven’t been here long enough to understand the context. Maybe if you had joined and participated in the general forums first, it would be fine, but you seemingly signed up just to post in the two Ree threads.
 

Claus Grimhildyr

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As i have said, I have twice been asked to "provide receipts" and the first time I was ignored by the person entirely, the second I had most of them dismantled and told they weren't examples when they clearly were. And while this may have been about another topic, I have no interest in playing this game again in a forum where I'm clearly outnumbered. It's exhausting.

My comments regarding this place being right-leaning and a safer space for extreme right wing views as a mirror to Era being the opposite are reasonable.

I do not care what you have done in the past. You make sweeping generalizations and large claims, you should back it up with evidence. Evidence that you state is readily available to see, so you should have no problem getting it to show the growing alt-right movement within the forum.

Put up or shut up.
 
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It seems to me that you just showed up one day recently and started complaining immediately. Some of your complaints are valid but others are obviously because you haven’t been here long enough to understand the context. Maybe if you had joined and participated in the general forums first, it would be fine, but you seemingly signed up just to post in the two Ree threads.
I've already explained away this kind of "concern" multiple times.

These threads are the most active. They're where I get the most replies to my comments. The other threads are quite slow. So obviously I will be more active here.

Please don't try to twist this to mean something it doesn't.


Coming from a guy who won't give examples..
I have literally explained why I was unwilling, reasonably so, and said I will if we can do this, so drop the pettiness already. If you don't I will simply choose to ignore you, I have no interest in this kind of low quality debate.

But anyways- I tend to consider people with these viewpoints as being on the far right.

These are basic right folks
Abortion is murdering babies.
Invisible hand fixes all problems
Religion needs to be everywhere
Small government proponents (doesn't this one counteract the one above?)
Guns shouldn't be regulated

And there are the are the crazy ones - but I don't consider them to be the same group
White genocide believers
Ok, good starting point, thank you.

Anyone else?


alt right means white supremacist I thought. Haven’t seen any of that here
What does SJW mean?

Both terms are pretty nebulsous a lot of the time and merely point to more extreme opinions on either side, and both this forum and Era have their fair share. Era is much more apparent sue to the echo chamber brought on by the stupid moderation, and this site is much smaller and less active, but it's still here.
 
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Cybrwzrd

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I have literally explained why I was unwilling, reasonably so, and said I will if we can do this, so drop the pettiness already. If you don't I will simply choose to ignore you, I have no interest in this kind of low quality debate.
I don't mean to pull rank, but yeah. You are a neo member, don't act like a cocky asshole.
 
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I think at this point we have to conclude this guy isn't serious, isn't here to discuss anything in good faith and isn't worth our time.
Don't be like Era, please. I have perfectly justified why I am exhausted by the "receipts" requests, and am now attempting to engage again and will do so.

So either engage, or step back and let others.

I have done this before and been ignored, after being piled on, and it's exhausting.

I am now attempting to do it again, so you can drop this petty nonsense now and engage or step back yourself. Thanks.

I don't mean to pull rank, but yeah. You are a neo member, don't act like a cocky asshole.
I don't mean to... but I'm going to anyway...

Either engage or don't, please drop the pettiness. I'm fully wiling to provide receipts at this point, I'm asking for more input here before I do.
 
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Yes they are and no I have not. I've not once called his place alt-right by definition.

Of course not.

I am. In this context when talking about alt-right (which I did not bring up, btw), we're using it to highlight more extreme right wing opinion in the same way some of you use SJW to do the same on the left. It's as nebulous ans shaky as SJW is, so if y'all can use one I don't see how you can be so critical of the other.

Ok, so, the opinions you see on Era that are "SJW madness", what are, in your opinon, the right's version of these things?

No I'm not, because my entire argument i that more extreme right voices will naturally gravitate here due to the right-leaning tone. And that while currently the reasonable voices are the standard, there is an undertone of more extreme right wing opinion that is always going to exist in a place that leans to one side.

And these things do exist here, you can see them in the politics sub. If you really want me to point them out can we plaeae begin with you answering my question above?
SJWs and alt-right are not two different sides of the same coin. Far-right and alt-right are not the same thing. SJW and far-left are not the same thing.

It is only natural to point this out.

Just like if I started randomly started calling a group a bunch of a Stalinists or Communist genocide deniers based on their charitable views toward free healthcare (to name an example typically on the Left), you are calling people "alt-Right" without actually pointing out where those "alt-right style talking points" are taking place.

You've admitted the term "alt-Right" is nebulous and shaky. But it isn't. Alt-right has a specific definition that can be obtained by Googling. And the definition has also been brought up several times.

But you believe that's the case, and that's all I needed to know. If you want to hide behind the excuse "well you get to use the term SJW so why can't I call you people neo-Nazis and Confederates?" that's your own poor decision based on a misunderstanding of what those words mean. But it doesn't mean you're justified in doing it.

A person can be deeply conservative (traditionally termed "right" or "far-right") and have absolutely nothing in common with alt-right ideology. Do you acknowledge this is the case, or is the whole right just one big, amorphous blob of maybe-Nazis in your view? You already think many of the views are abhorrent. It stands to reason that they're probably Nazis as well.
 

Cybrwzrd

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I don't mean to... but I'm going to anyway...

Either engage or don't, please drop the pettiness. I'm fully wiling to provide receipts at this point, I'm asking for more input here before I do.
I have engaged you. I am not being petty. I am just calling it as I see it.
 

Claus Grimhildyr

Vincit qui se vincit
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Don't be like Era, please. I have perfectly justified why I am exhausted by the "receipts" requests, and am now attempting to engage again and will do so.

So either engage, or step back and let others.



I have done this before and been ignored, after being piled on, and it's exhausting.

I am now attempting to do it again, so you can drop this petty nonsense now and engage or step back yourself. Thanks.



I don't mean to... but I'm going to anyway...

Either engage or don't, please drop the pettiness. I'm fully wiling to provide receipts at this point, I'm asking for more input here before I do.
I am trying to engage, but to engage I need to see the evidence you claim you have. The evidence you claim you have given that supports your position. We can not have a proper discussion over your claims without seeing the evidence first. You are the only one here who is acting petty by repeatedly refusing to provide the evidence.
 
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SJWs and alt-right are not two different sides of the same coin. Far-right and alt-right are not the same thing. SJW and far-left are not the same thing.

It is only natural to point this out.

Just like if I started randomly started calling a group a bunch of a Stalinists or Communist genocide deniers based on their charitable views toward free healthcare (to name an example typically on the Left), you are calling people "alt-Right" without actually pointing out where those "alt-right style talking points" are taking place.

You've admitted the term "alt-Right" is nebulous and shaky. But it isn't. Alt-right has a specific definition that can be obtained by Googling. And the definition has also been brought up several times.

But you believe that's the case, and that's all I needed to know. If you want to hide behind the excuse "well you get to use the term SJW so why can't I call you people neo-Nazis and Confederates?" that's your own poor decision based on a misunderstanding of what those words mean. But it doesn't mean you're justified in doing it.

A person can be deeply conservative (traditionally termed "right" or "far-right") and have absolutely nothing in common with alt-right ideology. Do you acknowledge this is the case, or is the whole right just one big, amorphous blob of maybe-Nazis in your view? You already think many of the views are abhorrent. It stands to reason that they're probably Nazis as well.
I meant it's nebulous and shaky in the way it;'s bandied about, not by the definition it has specifcially. Sorry if I was unclear.

So what is the right's version of SJW then? Let's clear this up so we can avoid confusion.
 
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I have engaged you. I am not being petty. I am just calling it as I see it.
Some of your replies to me have been very petty and condescending, yes. And many of you have absolutely misrepresented my points multiple times now.

SJWs and alt-right are not two different sides of the same coin. Far-right and alt-right are not the same thing. SJW and far-left are not the same thing.

It is only natural to point this out.

Just like if I started randomly started calling a group a bunch of a Stalinists or Communist genocide deniers based on their charitable views toward free healthcare (to name an example typically on the Left), you are calling people "alt-Right" without actually pointing out where those "alt-right style talking points" are taking place.

You've admitted the term "alt-Right" is nebulous and shaky. But it isn't. Alt-right has a specific definition that can be obtained by Googling. And the definition has also been brought up several times.

But you believe that's the case, and that's all I needed to know. If you want to hide behind the excuse "well you get to use the term SJW so why can't I call you people neo-Nazis and Confederates?" that's your own poor decision based on a misunderstanding of what those words mean. But it doesn't mean you're justified in doing it.

A person can be deeply conservative (traditionally termed "right" or "far-right") and have absolutely nothing in common with alt-right ideology. Do you acknowledge this is the case, or is the whole right just one big, amorphous blob of maybe-Nazis in your view? You already think many of the views are abhorrent. It stands to reason that they're probably Nazis as well.
I meant it's nebulous and shaky in the way it's bandied about, not by the definition it has specifically. Sorry if I was unclear.

So what is the right's version of SJW then? Let's clear this up so we can avoid confusion.


I am trying to engage, but to engage I need to see the evidence you claim you have. The evidence you claim you have given that supports your position. We can not have a proper discussion over your claims without seeing the evidence first. You are the only one here who is acting petty by repeatedly refusing to provide the evidence.
Ok, so let's see where this goes.
 
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Claus Grimhildyr

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I meant it's nebulous and shaky in the way it;'s bandied about, not by the definition it has specifcially. Sorry if I was unclear.

So what is the right's version of SJW then? Let's clear this up so we can avoid confusion.
There is no "right's version" of SJW. SJW has a singular meaning, that of a person who uses the fight for civil rights as an excuse to be rude, condescending, and sometimes violent for the purpose of relieving their frustrations or validating their sense of unwarranted moral superiority. These behaviors have been shown to have a negative impact on the civil rights movement, turning away potential allies and providing fuel for the resurgence of bigoted groups that scoop up people who have been burned or turned off by these "SJWs".
 
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There is no "right's version" of SJW. SJW has a singular meaning, that of a person who uses the fight for civil rights as an excuse to be rude, condescending, and sometimes violent for the purpose of relieving their frustrations or validating their sense of unwarranted moral superiority. These behaviors have been shown to have a negative impact on the civil rights movement, turning away potential allies and providing fuel for the resurgence of bigoted groups that scoop up people who have been burned or turned off by these "SJWs".
So this behaviour doesn't exist on the right at all in opposing context?

And really, these terms are beside the point.

The point is extreme-left opinion vs extreme right. I believe my use of the term alt-right has caused this pile on, and I can see why. I was using it in the same nebulous way as others do, and that is my mistake.

So I'll admit now, alt-right was the wrong term to use.

Having done this, what would you like to see from me regareding this conversation thread now and I'll do my best to provide it.
 
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Claus Grimhildyr

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So this behaviour doesn't exist on the right at all in opposing context?
Pardon, I assumed you were referring to the term not a similar type of person. As Cybrwzrd has stated, there is some similarities between "SJWs" and the evangelical types. Both push for moral superiority instead of genuine interest in providing understanding or helping others, though they are most assuredly different groups with different goals, but with similar methods of pushing those goals.
 
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Pardon, I assumed you were referring to the term not a similar type of person. As Cybrwzrd has stated, there is some similarities between "SJWs" and the evangelical types. Both push for moral superiority instead of genuine interest in providing understanding or helping others, though they are most assuredly different groups with different goals, but with similar methods of pushing those goals.
Agreed. Can you think of any more examples that might cover this? And I'm asking because I'm trying to clarify things for myself, too.


Evangelical Christians.
I think that's one example, yes. You don't think there are more?
 

Claus Grimhildyr

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Agreed. Can you think of any more examples that might cover this? And I'm asking because I'm trying to clarify things for myself, too.




I think that's one example, yes. You don't think there are more?
Sorry, by "more examples" do you mean other groups similar to SJWs or more information on the aforementioned evangelical types?

I would definitely suggest looking into stalinism as well as marxism that it was mostly based upon. It shares a number of similar mindsets in terms of the totalitarian control that certain groups of "SJWs" promote.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Stalinism
 
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I meant it's nebulous and shaky in the way it's bandied about, not by the definition it has specifically. Sorry if I was unclear.
That's okay, but this doesn't really address how you're flippantly claiming there's a contingent of neo-Nazi, Confederate, white supremacists lurking here.

And no, when I bring this up I am not "claiming that GAF is immune to these sort of members", I'll just answer that before you type it out yet again.

Since you know the definition of alt-Right, it's even stranger that you would throw it around and use it interchangeably with "right" and "far right". Here I was hoping that you merely misunderstood the term.

So what is the right's version of SJW then? Let's clear this up so we can avoid confusion.
The answer might disappoint you. I can give you not one but four examples of the Right's version of SJWs: medieval Catholics (who believed the State, counseled by the Church, should be in charge of everything), Puritans (who believed every aspect of society had to be operated strictly according to their interpretation of the Bible), prohibitionists (who believed that alcohol was such a blight on society that it should be removed entirely). A modern equivalent would be certain sects of evangelical Christians like the Westboro Baptist Church.

If I were to compare the alt-Right to anyone, it would be ISIS or Antifa. Would you feel comfortable with me casually mixing those organizations in with SJW and far-left?
 

Cybrwzrd

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I think that's one example, yes. You don't think there are more?
As the rights version of SJWs? That’s the largest group of social issue voters on the right. Social issue voters tend to be all low info and vote on emotional issues.
 

Musky_Cheese

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I consider hate groups like the Neo Nazi's and KKK to be Alt Right.

But really the Alt Right and Alt Left in the USA (Lefties) are 2 sides of the same coin. They believe in Supremacy of their group and/or beliefs. They aren't into the Constitution or Bill of Rights. They are very hateful.

Quite frankly I've seen many Alt Left posters on Gaf over the years. I've seen very little Alt Right posters if at all.
 
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I used the term alt-right incorrectly, I'm being quite lazy in my approach today so I think the pile on has been justified mostly.

I do not think in any way this place is an actual alt-right haven, I think the Era assessment of this place is imba af.

I do think this place has a strong right-lean, and I have read some questionable opinions (there was a particular person in the gender thread just yesterday bandying about "God's intention" as a reason, for example), but perhaps there has been an emotional response from me that has clouded my interpretation.

I would ask some of you to give me the benefit of the doubt here, my intentions are honest. I will not wrap my opinions in cotton wool, and I am prepared to defend those when they upset others, but I do believe I made a mistake here.

If at this point there is anything I have left that requires a response please let me know and I'll do so, otherwise I think I'm going to duck out and reflect for a bit.
 
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Eotheod

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Jeez some of you have a weird hate boner on anything not GAF and it's showing in lack of real discussion outside of this thread. Can we actually, you know, have a forum where discussions take place instead of "lol Era did this lol lol." It just makes us all look super petty.
 
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Alt-right is the polar opposite of the alt-left.
Which in both they support the views of said side but are willing to stop at nothing to ensure it. Dishoning family members, advocating murder etc etc
 
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I used the term alt-right incorrectly, I'm being quite lazy in my approach today so I think the pile on has been justified mostly.

I do not think in any way this place is an actual alt-right haven, I think the Era assessment of this place is imba af.

I do think this place has a strong right-lean, and I have read some questionable opinions (there was a particular person in the gender thread just yesterday bandying about "God's intention" as a reason, for example), but perhaps there has been an emotional response from me that has clouded my interpretation.

I would ask some of you to give me the benefit of the doubt here, my intentions are honest. I will not wrap my opinions in cotton wool, and I am prepared to defend those when they upset others, but I do believe I made a mistake here.

If at this point there is anything I have left that requires a response please let me know and I'll do so, otherwise I think I'm going to duck out and reflect for a bit.
Please stick around and don't duck out of the site. You have kept pace and explained things politely to me and the others who quoted you.

And we wouldn't ask you to censor your opinions either. Please give us the benefit of the doubt that we are not trying to deny the forum's potential vulnerability to certain opinions or standpoints. Rather, we are trying to cut through all that by calling out drive-by posts (I don't count yours among them) and opening up the conversation so that genuine opinions can be on display.

I've been called out for dismissively throwing around "the Left" too often so I've cut that out. Fair is fair. I'm just trying to get better at finding the heart of opinions instead of leaning on labels and second-hand arguments.
 

Redneckerz

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No, my claims of your misrepresentation have been valid. you even outright admitted to one which was a nice surprise! ;)
Oh yeah? I am referring to this bit:
You are misreading the cite and think i am misrepresenting you, i said ''If the problem is (as is dictated by some users here) that Politics is an alt-right heaven,''. I am not referring to you, but ''some users'', who treat it as if it is alt-right heaven. ''Some users.'' Not you. Don't see bears on the road when there aren't none :)
The other one i conceded, but that was an earlier one.

As i have said, I have twice been asked to "provide receipts" and the first time I was ignored by the person entirely, the second I had most of them dismantled and told they weren't examples when they clearly were.
My man you are still misrepresenting what i said. If you are going to summarize, atleast do so with honesty because this lacks nuance whatsoever.

What did i say?
''The problem i have with 2 out of your 3 posts, whilst being rather much, is that they are pertaining to personal interactions. The vegan one is rightly problematic though, even though the general point is discussion worthy. Ultimately, would i say it shows that GAF as a whole is problematic? I don't think so. I think a lot of it (in this case, since you link to personal interactions) is on tone predominantly, and it works both ways. Person A has a rather direct/aggressive tone, leading to you reacting in the same way, or vice versa.''

I never said they weren't examples, because they are. I dismissed them because looking at them they are more an tonal issue between both parties which quickly escalates.

This really comes off to me as a post done in bad faith. I don't want to think that you are posting that way, but this is a clear mis-translation/misrepresentation of my original words, and id prefer you cite me properly.*

*And if that makes it sound like that bugs me: It does. I don't want to have the impression that a fellow poster is being dishonest, so i am going to assume you simply mis-remembered.