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[mepaco]

Still, I'm not sure either it's really that much better when it comes from the PS3. I've seen about as much people saying that it didn't really make games look better on their TVs than people saying it improved a lot. (and I'm speaking of scaling alone, not using the smooth option).

edit : and yes, I've already made this point. Then again, do you really think the average joe would spot the difference between a game upscaled via his TV, or his console ? Certainly not.

And if said people can afford an HDTV, I guess they can afford a BC enabled PS3 instead of a 40GB, can't they ?

I don't think it is fair to make the comparison without also allowing for all of the options present in the PS3's BC solution. In any case, it isn't worth getting into the technical details.

Essentially, some people like BC and think it is a valuable feature in their console, whether that be for space reasons, superior upscaling, whatever. Constantly replying that you can buy a PS2 or that HDTVs can upscale does not change this. It also doesn't change the fact that some people can't afford either model right now and are worried that when they can, a fully BC model won't be available. I think the real sticking point here is that Sony is changing things up so that instead of early adopters getting screwed, everyone else might be. A lot of people don't like it and I don't think you are going to get anywhere trying to convince them they don't really care about BC.

 

[Raist]

The logic of production should ensure that they would be able to do a sizable pricecut about now, without any compromises.

They cut 1/3rd of the price and the console hasn't even been released for a year now. I'm not sure they could afford to sell the same model @ $400.

 

[Raist]

I don't think it is fair to make the comparison without also allowing for all of the options present in the PS3's BC solution. In any case, it isn't worth getting into the technical details.

Essentially, some people like BC and think it is a valuable feature in their console. Constantly replying that you can buy a PS2 or that HDTVs can upscale does not change this. It also doesn't change the fact that some people can't afford either model right now and are worried that when they can, a fully BC model won't be available. I think the real sticking point here is that Sony is changing things up so that instead of early adopters getting screwed, everyone else might be. A lot of people don't like it and I don't think you are going to get anywhere trying to convince them they don't really care about BC.

I'm not trying to convince anyone. I'm just saying that among a lot of people here, only a few came with the "but if it's not available anymore" argument. Then more people jumped in that bandwagon. Surprising.

There were lots of people, for instance, saying they would have bought it @ $400, but $500 is way too much (while it comes with 2 games and 2 controller, whatever) and they want upscaling because it would look like crap on their HDTVs. Sounds a bit wrong.

If you really want BC, there are still solutions. So saying that a $400 = ok, but $500 = no way, that's pretty silly IMO.

Ok, people fear that it won't be possible to have PS2 BC on the PS3 anymore. Sounds fair, but that's pure speculation.

 

[Squeak]

Ok, people fear that it won't be possible to have PS2 BC on the PS3 anymore. Sounds fair, but that's pure speculation.

Not according to Sony.
They almost couldn't say it clearer: No more BC for you, now go buy some games.

 

[Raist]

Not according to Sony.
They almost couldn't say it clearer: No more BC for you, now go buy some games.

Yes, we know, the almighty PR.

They've already said BC wasn't a priority anymore, and yet they kept improving it, and a LOT.

Now just imagine they're working on a software solution. What do you expect them to say ?
"hey guys, we rushed the 40GB model that has no PS2 chips, but it's ok, we're going to release a software emulator, so don't go and buy those 60GB that are still on the shelves if you want BC, just get the cheap one and it'll be all good in a few months".

They also already hinted at downloadable PS2 games several times. How would it work if no one but their 5 first millions consumers would be able to buy games ?

Or they could have not planned any of those at all, but what if the consumer says "we want BC back" They could make new "premium" models with BC. Wouldn't be the first time that they bring back something that was never supposed to, would it ?

 

[user friendly]

Not according to Sony.
They almost couldn't say it clearer: No more BC for you, now go buy some games.

Just like how they said "we have no plans to include rumble in the sixaxis"

 

[Christopher]

The points (and this really shouldn't need pointing out, but since you insist on being dense...) is:
1: We don't want to be pressured into buying a PS3 now, just because Sony are morons.
2: This is bad for Sony and the Playstation brand as such, past, present and future. All the investment we as consumers have made in the line is now spat upon, without any apologies. A practice that is only known in the videogame industry.
It's much much nicer to be able to play your old games on a fresh new reliable machine with upscaling, filters and a new wireless joypad.
Also, not having one more box under the TV is something everyone welcomes.

Also not having SACD is the last drop.
Personally (what little that means) I'm not getting a PS3 until they've reinstated all the missing features in a new less expensive model.
I'm not going to be pressured, and I'm not going to tolerate getting a severely cut down machine, for not so much less money.

The logic of production should ensure that they would be able to do a sizable pricecut about now, without any compromises.

bitch, bitch, bitch.

So you demand more for less? It's not as though you have an option not to buy the model for one hunderd dollars more that offers you all those features, seems like you just like to whine.

 

[Evlar]

bitch, bitch, bitch.

So you demand more for less? It's not as though you have an option not to buy the model for one hunderd dollars more that offers you all those features, seems like you just like to whine.

It doesn't matter to me personally what they offer right now. I care about what they offer when my PS3 breaks.

 

[Lo-Volt]

Are you kidding me? That thing is as ugly as sin.

Either way, it would be grand to see some PS3's in the silver and white that we saw in E3 2005 and 2006. Obviously not a priority and I accept that, but it'd be nice to see multicolored PS3's to join their little portable brothers.

 

[Christopher]

It doesn't matter to me personally what they offer right now. I care about what they offer when my PS3 breaks.

...to repair it?

 

[Evlar]

...to repair it?

... or replace it, at their discretion.

 

[Fatghost]

bitch, bitch, bitch.

So you demand more for less?

I know. HOW DARE A CONSUMER demand more for less? That's practically communism. He should be damn grateful Sony is even willing to consider selling him a PS3.

 

[Tf53]

bitch, bitch, bitch.

So you demand more for less? It's not as though you have an option not to buy the model for one hunderd dollars more that offers you all those features, seems like you just like to whine.

I can understand why some people aren't thrilled about this. They don't want more for less, they want the same for less. Not less for less. Not less for more. The same console, same specs, lower price. You know, a real price cut.

Personally, I'd be tempted to go out and buy a PS3 if I still needed to do so. I really hope MS gets another price cut going. If they do, the consumer will have one hell of a Christmas.

 

[fortified_concept]

It doesn't matter to me personally what they offer right now. I care about what they offer when my PS3 breaks.

1) PS3 is not X360
2) You whine about something that could potentially happen in the future. In other words you whine just to whine since you don't actually know what Sony will do next.
3) I seriously doubt most of you whine because you actually care about BC.

And that sums up pretty much the entire thread of trolls, panicking haters

Spoiler

DCharlie is here!

and fatghost who actually cares but still whines too much.

 

[Kaako]

1) PS3 is not X360
2) You whine about something that could potentially happen in the future. In other words you whine just to whine since you don't actually know what Sony will do next.
3) I seriously doubt most of you whine because you actually care about BC.

And that sums up pretty much the entire thread of trolls, panicking haters (DCharlie's here!) and fatghost who actually cares.

B.I.N.G.O
100% agreed.

 

[Evlar]

1) PS3 is not X360
2) You whine about something that could potentially happen in the future. In other words you whine just to whine since you don't actually know what Sony will do next.
3) I seriously doubt most of you whine because you actually care about BC.

And that sums up pretty much the entire thread of trolls, panicking haters

Spoiler

DCharlie is here!

and fatghost who actually cares.

I've spent the last 40 hours of playtime on my PS3 playing Persona 3.

 

[mepaco]

1) PS3 is not X360
2) You whine about something that could potentially happen in the future. In other words you whine just to whine since you don't actually know what Sony will do next.
3) I seriously doubt most of you whine because you actually care about BC.

And that sums up pretty much the entire thread of trolls, panicking haters

Spoiler

DCharlie is here!

and fatghost who actually cares but still whines too much.

And that is the entire problem. You are projecting your wants onto others. How the hell do you know what matters to others? Just because the value proposition of a non-BC PS3 is the same for you as a BC PS3, doesn't meant that holds for everyone else. People are genuinely displeased with this. Get over it.

 

[DCharlie]

panicking haters DCharlie is here!

seriously, i have no idea what your issue is because every time i see you post you seem to be in some flap about haters.

you add absolutely ZERO to any discussion other than MORE FLAPPING based on nothing other than usernames and not reading what was written.

To put it mildly : of the PS3 fanboys, you are the worst firefighter of them all.

I hardly see how ANYTHING i`ve said in this thread is hate - unless "this is a great price" , "i don`t care about BC" and "I`m thinking of getting a PS3 for my dad" is hate these days.

Go ACTUALLY read what i said in this thread - then you can come back and apologise.

 

[fortified_concept]

I've spent the last 40 hours of playtime on my PS3 playing Persona 3.

I'm sorry the Manabyte/DCharlie excuse™ is not admissible as a valid argument anymore. It has been used so much by haters lately that it has lost its validity.

 

[Evlar]

I'm sorry the Manabyte/DCharlie excuse™ is not admissible as a valid argument anymore. It has been used so much by haters lately that it has lost its validity.

What the fuck are you talking about?

 

[Raist]

And that is the entire problem. You are projecting your wants onto others. How the hell do you know what matters to others? Just because the value proposition of a non-BC PS3 is the same for you as a BC PS3, doesn't meant that holds for everyone else. People are genuinely displeased with this. Get over it.

I'm sorry, but works the other way around.

"omg people will be pissed" "omg this is so bad for video games" etc, etc, etc.

 

[DCharlie]

What the fuck are you talking about?

WHAT THERES A FIRE AT THE SONY WAREHOUSE!

LET ME PUT IT OUT .......... WITH MY PETROL GUN!

 

[Evlar]

I'm just trying to get my head around the idea that I can't really like BC because... DCharlie is in the thread, or something. And the fact that I've been playing Persona 3 makes me Manabyte? .... What?

 

[mepaco]

I'm sorry, but works the other way around.

"omg people will be pissed" "omg this is so bad for video games" etc, etc, etc.

Huh? People are pissed, thats why they come in here and say "this sucks" or "I'm pissed". Then they get attacked for it. And if people want to speculate that this move says something about Sony's future plans, I don't see how that is so wrong. This forum wouldn't exist if we couldn't have discussions and speculate about the future.

 

[DCharlie]

I can't like BC because... DCharlie is in the thread, or something. And the fact that I've been playing Persona 3 makes me Manabyte? .... What?

1) liking BC is so 1 month ago - sony fans have moved on since then!
2) I`m not allowed to say anything about sony/PS3 because i`m a "hater"
3) it`s fortified - it`s not worth losing any sleep over.
4) he`ll be posting an apology in a few posts for shooting his mouth off without reading posts, so it`ll all even out.

 

[Panajev2001a]

1) PS3 is not X360
2) You whine about something that could potentially happen in the future. In other words you whine just to whine since you don't actually know what Sony will do next.
3) I seriously doubt most of you whine because you actually care about BC.

And that sums up pretty much the entire thread of trolls, panicking haters

Spoiler

DCharlie is here!

and fatghost who actually cares but still whines too much.

Come on now, I see some people whining yes, but there is quite a bit of reasoned discussion (of which D.C. is part of).

People might appreciate BC more or less than others, but just rolling over and showing a company my tummy should never be the answer. We are not Sony board of directors members, we are gamers!

 

[Panajev2001a]

WHAT THERES A FIRE AT THE SONY WAREHOUSE!

LET ME PUT IT OUT WITH MY PETROL GUN!

:lol.

 

[fortified_concept]

seriously, i have no idea what your issue is because every time i see you post you seem to be in some flap about haters.

you add absolutely ZERO to any discussion other than MORE FLAPPING based on nothing other than usernames and not reading what was written.

To put it mildly : of the PS3 fanboys, you are the worst firefighter of them all.

I hardly see how ANYTHING i`ve said in this thread is hate - unless "this is a great price" , "i don`t care about BC" and "I`m thinking of getting a PS3 for my dad" is hate these days.

Go ACTUALLY read what i said in this thread - they you can come back and apologise.

The fact that you people think we're idiots who can't see who are the usual suspect that "coincidentally" always have a negative thing to say every single time good PS3 news are announced is enough not to take you and your buddies seriously. Afterall this thread has become a joke loooooooong ago. I argued seriously in the beginning when we came to the conclusion that until Sony announces its plans after the 60SKU sells out we won't know about the future of BC in PS3 so the bitching in unecessary.

After a couple of valid discussions the thread -as always, it's a Ps3 thread afterall- turned to shit with the usual suspects trolling and whining because they think that we're blind or stupid and can't see their usernames and what they represent.

 

[Truespeed]

For those hoping for BC for the 40GB - forget about it. It's never going to happen. If you care about BC then get a 60GB while you can.

Backwards compatibility for PS2 titles is largely made possible through the use of actual semiconductors, supported by the PS3 system software. The 20GB and 60GB PS3 models launched in Japan and the USA were equipped with both the PS2 Emotion Engine and Graphics Synthesiser chips and we could therefore guarantee over 90% backwards compatibility for PS2 titles.

"The 60GB model launched in Europe was a new model (shared with the 80GB model launched subsequently in USA) which contains only a modified version of the Graphics Synthesiser chip from the PS2 and not the Emotion Engine chip. The European launch model therefore used a combination of software and the modified version of the PS2 Graphics Synthesiser chip to deliver backwards compatibility for PS2 titles. As a result the percentage of backwards compatible PS2 titles was slightly reduced.

"The 40GB model, to be launched in Europe on 10th October, is a new model and is not equipped with any of the semi conductors from the PS2, and backwards compatibility would therefore have to be achieved by software emulation alone." Because each game would have to be individually emulated (much like on the Xbox 360), Sony decided that an effort like that would be much too costly, and opted to remove BC support from the 40GB system entirely. That decision has not only produced a cheaper system for Sony to manufacture, but for consumers to buy as well.

 

[DCharlie]

The fact that you people think we're idiots who can't see who are the usual suspect that "coincidentally" always have a negative thing to say every single time good PS3 news are announced is enough not to take you and your buddies seriously. Afterall this thread has become a joke loooooooong ago. I argued seriously in the beginning when we came to the conclusion that until Sony announces its plans after the 60SKU sells out we won't know about the future of BC in PS3 so the bitching in unecessary.

After a couple of valid discussions the thread -as always, it's a Ps3 thread afterall- turned to shit with the usual suspects trolling and whining because they think that we're blind or stupid and can't see their usernames and what they represent.

so .... you are going to wheel out this "usual suspects" line in every post until people stop posting? is that the battle plan?

Again - still waiting for the apology... you CLEARLY haven`t read what i posted and if you can SERIOUSLY take that and bend it to think that i am hating on this price drop, then i feel very very sorry for you.

always have a negative thing

me and my buddies? You mean the Sony Hating Council? always have a negative thing to say?

hahaha .... good lord, Kleenex will never go bust when there`s so many tears in the world.

 

[Panajev2001a]

For those hoping for BC for the 40GB - forget about it. It's never going to happen. If you care about BC then get a 60GB while you can.

I still have hopes for Software BC .

 

[Shogmaster]

I still have hopes for Software BC .

This is your golden chance to lead them out of darkness, not further into it.

 

[Truespeed]

I still have hopes for Software BC .

Your PC has a 100% better chance of playing PS2 games than a 40GB PS3 ever will. Like the Sony spokesperson said - they would have to address each game separately and I doubt they're going to sink funds into that sinkhole.

 

[tanod]

I still have hopes for Software BC .

Never say never.


People should remember too that the PS1 emulator in the PS3 is at least partly based on some of the Bleem! code that Sony sued/obtained from those emulation coders.

Quick, somebody try to make a PS2 emulator and get lots of publicity so Sony sue you and put it in the PS3 and...... GO!

 

[Panajev2001a]

Your PC has a 100% better chance of playing PS2 games than a 40GB PS3 ever will. Like the Sony spokesperson said - they would have to address each game separately and I doubt they're going to sink funds into that sinkhole.

Sony PR guys say a lot of things...

 

[Panajev2001a]

This is your golden chance to lead them out of darkness, not further into it.

I am not sure how to take that :lol.

 

[Christopher]

I know. HOW DARE A CONSUMER demand more for less? That's practically communism. He should be damn grateful Sony is even willing to consider selling him a PS3.

Oh please Fatghost we paid 600 dollars for this piece of shit - and then for someone to make outrageous demands over something so petty is stupid. I dunno though your Mr. Backwards Compatibility so :lol

 

[lupinko]

Never say never.


People should remember too that the PS1 emulator in the PS3 is at least partly based on some of the Bleem! code that Sony sued/obtained from those emulation coders.

Quick, somebody try to make a PS2 emulator and get lots of publicity so Sony sue you and put it in the PS3 and...... GO!

Really? I thought it was with the Videogamestation code.

 

[Loudninja]

For those hoping for BC for the 40GB - forget about it. It's never going to happen. If you care about BC then get a 60GB while you can.

Yeah like rumble was not coming, oh yeah Sony said that as well

 

[angelfly]

Never say never.


People should remember too that the PS1 emulator in the PS3 is at least partly based on some of the Bleem! code that Sony sued/obtained from those emulation coders.

Quick, somebody try to make a PS2 emulator and get lots of publicity so Sony sue you and put it in the PS3 and...... GO!

First I've heard of that. I know they were sued but I never heard they had to hand over the code or anything. I also doubt they'd code done by reverse engineering when they designed the hardware itself.

 

[DCharlie]

i thought Sony purchased Connectix ? so i assumed they`d have been working on software emu ... as they were whipped!

 

[Shogmaster]

I am not sure how to take that :lol.

I'm not sure either come to think of it. :lol

 

[mepaco]

I still have hopes for Software BC .

Yeah, unless it is shown to be technically impossible I don't see anything wrong with holding out hope. I wouldn't count on it either.

I wonder why the different regional Sony HQs seem to have such differing views on the importance of BC. As long as the Sony heads in the US and Japan think that BC is important, it will continue to get support, but if the 40GB sells like gangbusters ... who knows how they will interpret that.

 

[fortified_concept]

Again - still waiting for the apology... you CLEARLY haven`t read what i posted and if you can SERIOUSLY take that and bend it to think that i am hating on this price drop, then i feel very very sorry for you.

I read what you posted. I read about the discussion in the store (which had a lot more to do with piracy than BC), I read the arguments that have been recycled a million times by fatghost in this thread, I read about how important is BC for casuals (haha) etc. etc.

so .... you are going to wheel out this "usual suspects" line in every post until people stop posting? is that the battle plan?

I figured if the usual suspects can fuck up every PS3 thread known to man without the tiniest repercussion -hey why not- I'll act like an asshole too. There's no battle plan I'm just calling you people out. I'm tired of this hypocrisy watching you pretend you have an honest opinion. If that means my ban so be it, I'm not attached to the forum so much.

Come on now, I see some people whining yes, but there is quite a bit of reasoned discussion (of which D.C. is part of).

People might appreciate BC more or less than others, but just rolling over and showing a company my tummy should never be the answer. We are not Sony board of directors members, we are gamers!

DCharlie is the guy that first thing he did after buying a PS3 was to write a compaint list in GAF about PS3. First. thing. he. did.

As for his arguments they have already been done and counter-argued.

 

[Evlar]

EDIT: Took it to PMs.

 

[Panajev2001a]

I know. HOW DARE A CONSUMER demand more for less? That's practically communism. He should be damn grateful Sony is even willing to consider selling him a PS3.

:lol.

 

[Panajev2001a]

DCharlie is the guy that first thing he did after buying a PS3 was to write a compaint list in GAF about PS3. First. thing. he. did.

Maybe he changed his mind. Maybe he was only pointing out some things he personally expected, as far as I know he was always speaking in a honest way and that is what I care about. Heck, the first thing I did after getting my PSP Slim was a big fuss over the screen's Quality Assurance or lack of thereof... so ? Was I pissed or just trolling ? I was pissed. Don't believe it ? I do not know what to say, you do not know me, I know him. Not a difficult choice for me.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

Wow, this thread is still going, eh?

 

[Guy Legend]

Wow, this thread is still going, eh?

I can't wait for the North American announcement.

 

[Truespeed]

Yeah like rumble was not coming, oh yeah Sony said that as well

Ya, you're right. Sony's going to get right to work on emulating those thousands of PS2 titles in software right away.