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Seven Dead, Several Hospitalized in Isla Vista Mass Shooting
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BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
...
I'm 135lbs and 5'11"
Don't worry, you are in the normal height range.
We meet again
Hmm? (
)BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I just realised that this guy was real life Joffrey. Except he wasn't king.
Trading sex/intimacy for financial security is pretty common. While not the scion of billionaires, he comes from what seems to be a well off family.
It was Fox News.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
Man, I just can't, I just can't.
He's good looking, he's coming from a well-established family, has loving parents if his manifesto is any indication, well-fed and economically rich, living a good lifestyle with all of his fancy glasses, BMW, or what-have-you...
If only he'd just try it the normal way, the sane way, I am positive he can find someone that he can be with. I mean, gosh Almighty, barring his obvious mental sickness, he is sitting in a position many, many, many people would find they envious of.
He's good looking, he's coming from a well-established family, has loving parents if his manifesto is any indication, well-fed and economically rich, living a good lifestyle with all of his fancy glasses, BMW, or what-have-you...
If only he'd just try it the normal way, the sane way, I am positive he can find someone that he can be with. I mean, gosh Almighty, barring his obvious mental sickness, he is sitting in a position many, many, many people would find they envious of.
The manifesto and this guy's overall existence were the flesh and bone incarnation of a Jezebel strawman. I mean, Jesus.
This thing I doubt it.
The thing that strikes me the most is that this wasn't a shudden thing. This guy have had clear anger issues from a long time, and noone ever talked about it with him? I mean, reading his rants, the guy hated women the most, but he hated pretty much everyone and their mothers. Everyone was "disrespecting him" on his mind and he held grudges against every girl and every guy that ever dated girls, which comprises like what, 90% of the popullation of this blue Earth of ours?
You must be really, really, really isolated so you can never be called on this type of bullshit.
If you can manage to find sympathy with anything he said, you have problems. Get help. You are not entitled to another human being. If the end result is that you never have sex, that is irrelevant...you are not entitled to another human. You cannot rationalize entitlement to another human, regardless of how "lonely" you yourself feel.
Higgins113
Banned
Are you aware?
That return of kings site has an article up now about the incident and it's horrible. The site and it's articles as a whole are fascinating in a screwed up way. I can't stop reading and trying to find even faint threads of logic or the idea that these people live in the same world as everyone else.
IISANDERII
Member
I find sympathy for many things he said, none of which includes being entitled to another human being.
For example?
Utter bollocks. Read the manifesto, there is plenty in there that most could relate to.
And ultimately, a lot most people would find completely perplexing.
pants
Member
You cant be serious.
TrickyDaddy
Banned
I don't feel sorry for this kid at all. He hasn't made any effort to change himself. Instead, he waited and waited for the world to change for him. His personality is just rotten: "Waaahhh the world is not fair. If I can't have sex, no other people should have sex. Waaahhhhh. The world is so cruel to me." (while sipping on starbucks latte' in his bmw coupe with his $300 sunglasses hanging on his shirt)
The more I read, the more I feel sorry for his parents and other people that had to endure his rotten persona. And of course... the victims.... God damn what a sad excuse for a human being.
The more I read, the more I feel sorry for his parents and other people that had to endure his rotten persona. And of course... the victims.... God damn what a sad excuse for a human being.
I only quickly scrolled through his manifesto, but it's quite obvious that this kid's sense of entitlement was through the roof. I mean stuff like "Mom finally bought me the nice BMW I needed".
He had love and support from his family and friends, probably got way more than the average kid ever would, but couldn't get over his obsession for women and how they should be his.
I mean, maybe the whole "unplanned kid", divorce etc didn't help, but the kid had serious issues.
He had love and support from his family and friends, probably got way more than the average kid ever would, but couldn't get over his obsession for women and how they should be his.
I mean, maybe the whole "unplanned kid", divorce etc didn't help, but the kid had serious issues.
Yeah its one of them. I didn't even know this shit or mentality exited until Gaf exposed me to it a while ago. Like I knew there were entitled guys out there but the extend these people take it to is ridiculous. Like they want a full world revolution where women are put in their place and they have so many "examples" of how life would be better for everyone if it was their way etc etc. This site seems to have a serious hate on psychology, education for the poor and some homophobia going on as well. I have no idea how prevalent that is within that community.
The Elliot article was super frustrating. They made sure to point out he had male victims( because it can't be misogyny then) but never talked bout his jealousy of them or why he hated other men.
While i won;t link or quote the whole thing, two bits made me want to break my mouse while scrolling down.
FFS no one deserves sex or a relationship just for existing. It's other aspects of society that have more blame for this than him not getting a girl. Also the way the article claims they possibly could have fixed him was gross.
This though is the worst
It's like a lovely little threat to women " fuck all the guys or we will kill you cause we just gotta find release." With the addition of " By sleeping with any man you are now automatically a slut."
Still I'm reading on just idk in hopes of finding something worthwhile in all this drivel. And to know the sorts of things to look out for when I start dating again, god help me I don't want to run into a man who believes this.
I feel fucking horrid for the victims family's because you know some of them are going to read stuff like this trying to understand the sorts of things that influenced Elliot to kill and it;s just gonna break them that this sort of madness is what helped drive him over the edge.
Chuckie
Member
I read the greater part of his manifesto and while it is ofcourse very very clear this kid was mentally ill... he also felt entitled as hell. He is constantly expecting (and getting) new computers, laptops, consoles etc. He starts raging when he has to share his sister for instance.
He has a huge superiority and inferiority complex at the same time. Really weird to read.
He is also aggressive as fuck. One girl pushes him when he is 12 and the 'bitch' ruined his life.
Also his attempts at building a new life are pathetic. He wants to start over... by walking outside and waiting for a girl to walk over and become his girlfriend. And when that doesn't happen, the universe is so unfair to him.
He's also a racist piece of shit btw.
It is really sad so many had to die because of this guy who clearly belonged in a mental institute.
He has a huge superiority and inferiority complex at the same time. Really weird to read.
He is also aggressive as fuck. One girl pushes him when he is 12 and the 'bitch' ruined his life.
Also his attempts at building a new life are pathetic. He wants to start over... by walking outside and waiting for a girl to walk over and become his girlfriend. And when that doesn't happen, the universe is so unfair to him.
He's also a racist piece of shit btw.
It is really sad so many had to die because of this guy who clearly belonged in a mental institute.
EdibleKnife
Member
Good lord. Really? Really? This is the actual disturbing shit to be revealed in response to this tragedy. The idea that someone could put the blame on society in relation to an entire gender for one man's mania is insane. Sex and intimacy are cool but even if they were some sort of commodity people deserved, these guys would be the least deserving. To actually think that death is some sort of expected response to not getting sex is horrid. "Oh well. You don't want to give a lay to this poor unfortunate soul? Well who can say what'll happen next? It's all gotta come out somehow right?" What the fuck. Newsflash: No one, save for Elliot, could convince himself that he didn't deserve a girlfriend. There isn't a societal cabal shunting love and sex to the more awesome members of the public and table scraps to the other. The walls that you think exist between yourself and love are formed from your own psyche. Elliot was given more than the average person could expect including psychiatric care and at the very end all of it was beneath him. Him and people that share his sentiments for the other gender have no idea what they want. Actually scratch that. They know they want to be treated like gods incarnate by every man and especially every woman on this planet and that's not fucking happening. Good lord I'm actually shaking in anger.
At least this case study pours cold water on the 'blame the parents' angle that so often comes up in these discussions.
From the manifesto, there's clear evidence that his parents, particularly his mother, went to huge lengths to accommodate her son and did her best to ensure he was fitting in. Organising countless play dates, even into his late teens, nurturing him and his interests, listening to his breakdowns and offering emotional support throughout all his struggles, providing financial support, employing life coaches, therapists, forgiving him and encouraging him despite his educational failures, traveling to Morocco to 'rescue him', etc.
Perhaps her sympathetic nature wasn't what he needed given his condition, but you can't blame her whatsoever in regards to her actions. She never neglected him.
From the manifesto, there's clear evidence that his parents, particularly his mother, went to huge lengths to accommodate her son and did her best to ensure he was fitting in. Organising countless play dates, even into his late teens, nurturing him and his interests, listening to his breakdowns and offering emotional support throughout all his struggles, providing financial support, employing life coaches, therapists, forgiving him and encouraging him despite his educational failures, traveling to Morocco to 'rescue him', etc.
Perhaps her sympathetic nature wasn't what he needed given his condition, but you can't blame her whatsoever in regards to her actions. She never neglected him.
And_Gignac
Member
You need to be better informed before making such a broad generalization. Most people are identifying with the bullying, loneliness part of his struggles, not with the lack of sex/attention from women.
Sometimes unconditional love from the parents perpetuates the mental condition.
This story also shows the limitations of psychotherapy. The guy started going to a therapist when he was 13 years old. His parents were quite aware he had problems and spared no expenses on trying to help him. I think he was just broken beyond repair. The brain is a very complex machine and I wouldn't be surprised if some people simply have crossed wires in theirs.
I feel sorry for his parents, as much as the victims families and friends in this case. They appear to have done everything to accommodate him, help him and in the in end were racing to try and stop him when it happened.
what a position to be in. to know your kid did that and after all the help and support too. devastating.
He went to a therapist at 13? Was that in the manifesto? I saw no mention of it.
Random Painted HIghway
Member
There is not being neglectful and then there is over indulgence and never teaching the child that there are limitations in life and negative consequences of actions. Combine mental illness/psychosis with extreme narcissism and no concept of "no" and any perceived slight or is going to be magnified to be a personal affront or attack.
non sequitur: the killings + youtube + manifesto read straight out of an episode of criminal minds. very disturbing to see this play out in reality.
Yep, as I alluded to towards the end of my post.
We can't forget though, he also had a toxic relationship with his stepmother and seemed to spend considerable time with her in his teens, so in essence he experienced unconditional love AND closeted resentment from an authority figure.
I read in this thread that he saw many different therapists starting at 13. I honestly believe people with this type of narcissism cannot be helped as their sense of superiority prevents them from actually learning to change their behavior.
I'm up to when he's 19 and there's still been no encounter with a counsellor or therapist yet whatsoever.
People aren't entitled to each other... but they definitely need human contact.
Society is a bit broken that it's structured in a way that makes us porcupine like... we desire the love and affection of those around us, but wound each other with the spikes we proverbially surrounds ourselves in.
And it's sad that we only seem to be getting naturally spikier in the modern age.
This guy had spikes so long other people didn't even acknowledge is existence. Maybe mistook him for some kinda spiky bush?
DoktorEvil
Banned
Any more news other than what's been argued about yesterday?
Please tell me the count ends at 7.
Please tell me the count ends at 7.
marimorimo
Member
When he was in college (I think), he mentioned a psychiatrist that he met briefly before when he was 13 and that he was seeing again.
DoktorEvil
Banned
EdibleKnife
Member
This is all that happens after these things. The murderer gets the infamy they wanted in the first place and the stories about the victim(s) get drowned out. And actually the fascination with the criminal psyche doesn't disturb as much as the comedy/parody/trolling that also results from the tragedy.
Go_Ly_Dow
Member
Fuck the internet.
Well, places like 4chan are inevitably going to. There is a dark sense of humour there.
Just like the Metal Gear Solid one, I can't help but think they're really well done though. It's one of those things where you catch yourself laughing when you shouldn't. It's a guilty laugh.
Of course it doesn't change the fact that what he did was horrendous and the victims' families have to live with it for the rest of their lives.
digita1alchemy
Member
Could the United States mental health system be any better at helping people like this? I'm not really familiar enough with it to try to point out shortcomings. To me, arguing about any of the shooters personal views and experiences doesn't seem that productive since it's likely all a byproduct of being mentally ill. It seems like a theme in these types of shootings yet doesn't seem to get debated that heavily.
Dreams-Visions
Member
I think this is a flawed outlook and if you're having trouble forging relationships, this outlook is probably part of the reason why.
I think there's a lot left out and a lot fabricated. This manifesto was created to cause empathy, and that's exactly what it's getting.
This guy stabs unsuspecting housemates. Guns down innocent women. Rams cyclists with his car. I'm sure he had a good laugh about that. And people want to empathize with this guy? You understand his pain?
EdibleKnife
Member
Beyond institutionalizing him against his will, I don't think there's much they can do. A therapist can talk but the patient has to open up. He can get medications but he has to take them. Health care as a whole could be better at helping the less financially capable but in this case, finances weren't an issue. The mental health system itself isn't at fault for the societal stigma about mental health. If people treated therapy for mental wounds as medically valid as going to the doctor for a broken leg, maybe people who have some psychosis wouldn't be afraid to take steps.
Yeah. He really needed to be institutionalised. It's easy to say that now of course.
I find it kinda gross that so many people are trying to leverage this tragedy to make it some sort of teachable moment about misogyny. My Facebook feed to full of outrageously outraged feminist friends all weekend crying about how this is being covered. It reminds me of the Giffords shooting and how that was supposed to be indicative of the coarseness of our political discourse and was leveraged to try to marginalize political opponents.
There's something uniquely ugly and opportunistic about trying to use the blood of innocents to gain a little power and/or attention for your pet political cause.
Life is tragic and unfair and awful things happen. Most of the time there are no easy answers. There will always be extreme opinions and behavior in society and people saying outlandish things. The Rodgers of the world don't happen because these discussions exist, they happen because some very small amount of the population lack the emotional and mental ability to process them in a rational way.
Let's mourn the victims and pray for their loved ones, be honest with our ourselves about how much of a little shit Rodger was but be just as honest with ourselves that the kid needed a lot of help and attention. These outliers need someone in their lives to help them see they are going down a very very bad path.
There's something uniquely ugly and opportunistic about trying to use the blood of innocents to gain a little power and/or attention for your pet political cause.
Life is tragic and unfair and awful things happen. Most of the time there are no easy answers. There will always be extreme opinions and behavior in society and people saying outlandish things. The Rodgers of the world don't happen because these discussions exist, they happen because some very small amount of the population lack the emotional and mental ability to process them in a rational way.
Let's mourn the victims and pray for their loved ones, be honest with our ourselves about how much of a little shit Rodger was but be just as honest with ourselves that the kid needed a lot of help and attention. These outliers need someone in their lives to help them see they are going down a very very bad path.
Mammoth Jones
Member
Exactly why I refuse to read it. We unknowingly raise the mass killer up and forget the victims. Then another copy cat sees what they view as adoration (society trying to understand the killer) and attempts to emulate that.
Mammoth Jones
Member
No one is trying to "leverage" anything. It's just this guy had a very specific view that he was owed woman and a few women chimed in on the subject to express their views and feeling regarding such type of objectification. Nothing opportunistic about that.
The problem is that this douchebag had plenty of people in his life. He saw multiple therapists to help treat his mental health. His mother (and presumably father as well) were ridiculously supportive of him. He was surrounded by people who wanted to help him, yet he rejected them at every turn.
It's a sad fact that some people simply can't be helped.
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