Is that security camera footage ACTUAL footage from the shooting?
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Seven Dead, Several Hospitalized in Isla Vista Mass Shooting
- Thread starter tehbible
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Is that security camera footage ACTUAL footage from the shooting?
My heart goes out to the victims.
I'm very disheartened by the fact how much the media is showing this. Especially the fact that his videos and manifesto are out there for everyone to see. Media love to talk more about maniacs like this than their victims. Psychopaths like Ted Bundy and Charles Manson have cult superstar status because of an unquenchable thirst from the public to know what makes people like this exist in this world. And the press is all too happy to obligee them.
I'm very disheartened by the fact how much the media is showing this. Especially the fact that his videos and manifesto are out there for everyone to see. Media love to talk more about maniacs like this than their victims. Psychopaths like Ted Bundy and Charles Manson have cult superstar status because of an unquenchable thirst from the public to know what makes people like this exist in this world. And the press is all too happy to obligee them.
Mammoth Jones
Member
The police should have seen the YouTube videos. That would have allowed them to put this guy on an involuntary hold. As well as search his room and find his manifesto and plans. But they just went over chatted with him and him being then manipulative maniac he is he put on a polite song and dance for the officers.
They really should have viewed the YouTube videos. That's what the parents went to the police about in the first place....
This is true. Which makes this case that much more disturbing.
I believe so, yeah. He shot through the windows of a shop.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
There's nothing opportunistic for pointing our the exact reasons for his killing spree.
If it were a white supremacist who killed a bunch of blacks it would instantly be called a hate crime motivated by race.
But for some reason it's too dangerous to call this a shooting fueled by a man's misogyny.
This poor guy was a misogynist and received lots of help.
I don't think people are denying this, the more interesting discussion is why he turned out the way he did.
Some people seem content to label him a misogynist and move on.
Mental health is always brought up when there's a white shooter.
Looks like you got this one all figured out. Guess it's time to wrap this one up. And you got a face palm image too. Can't argue with that.
Often it's not about the amount of help but the type. You can't just throw therapists and support at someone and think everything is going to change.
Gentleman Jack
Member
What's gross is trying to say we can't learn anything about ourselves every time a mass killing happens. The killer didn't exist in a vacuum, he was connected in a lot of ways to a lot of extremely bad influences and it's absurd to assert that exploring those lines of inquiry is somehow selfish opportunism.
SquiddyCracker
Banned
Regarding his misogyny (and racism
Yes, they are crucial, but I don't think they can be considered even close to a primary (or even secondary) cause of these events. Without the misogyny and racism, he would probably still ended up killing people.
Yeah, I'm not sure what to say.
I can see the attempt at dark comedy, but from 1 minute onward it becomes far too macabre.
Yes, they are crucial, but I don't think they can be considered even close to a primary (or even secondary) cause of these events. Without the misogyny and racism, he would probably still ended up killing people.
Yeah, I'm not sure what to say.
I can see the attempt at dark comedy, but from 1 minute onward it becomes far too macabre.
White mass shooter.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
I think I can say without any sympathy towards this kid's world view and actions, that a society full of misogyny is still pretty relevant to the situation. Because in a more sane world, someone like this kid may have been identified much more quickly. Look at the reaction right here on GAF to people reading his internet postings: it was impossible to tell them apart from parody or typical internet misogyny culture because there's so much of that shit.
Co-opting incidents like this to go on a convenient political crusade? That would be bad. But there's still a conversation to be had when stuff like this happens. If you believe people like this need help, addressing cultural pathologies they can latch onto is one pre-condition to getting them that help. In the same way that stigmatizing mental illness in general is something that needs to stop in order to keep more people from falling through the cracks.
Co-opting incidents like this to go on a convenient political crusade? That would be bad. But there's still a conversation to be had when stuff like this happens. If you believe people like this need help, addressing cultural pathologies they can latch onto is one pre-condition to getting them that help. In the same way that stigmatizing mental illness in general is something that needs to stop in order to keep more people from falling through the cracks.
Since he also used a knife to kill 3, a car to kill 1, posted videos about wanting to killing women, and wrote some horseshit about his feelings, I would say mental health is much more of an issue in this particular case.
Yeah. the blood rag, and bodies at the end is a bit much.
The music though. I was like, "fucking no way!"
Part of turning out the way he did was his mysogony. And yes, why he was this way is worth being discussed. 140.85 doesn't want this discussion (instrumentalization) and wanted to point out he needed help (which he received).
Would you call it a hate crime motivated by race if the white victims outnumbered the black ones?
These PUA sites sound horrible, and I hope these are not considered as some sort of support group. That's not help.
It seems that too often those who empathize and ask for relationship help don't want to hear proactive advice. They don't want a kick in the pants, they want a hug. So they go find like-minded people where they can cry and complain together. This is not help. This is not a support group. It's just a hate site.
When these sites are breeding hate and turning people into dangerous psychopaths, that's seriously messed up. It's time for people to be held accountable for what they say on the internet, and it's time for society to find the dangerous people and give them real help.
DoktorEvil
Banned
Agreed.
A first scanning of Fox News and CNN this morning, I found no mentions of the shooter. Is that intentional?
There's also no discussions of MRA or mental illness.
Watch Da Birdie
I buy cakes for myself on my birthday it's not weird lots of people do it I bet
I'm wondering if the real reason Sasha had to move away was because he started creeping on her to the point she just couldn't stand it?
MRA is a very very small group of men on the internet, still very much 'under the radar' as it were, so I wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't get mentioned anywhere in the mass media.
And I'm not saying that it doesn't apply to this case. The guy I was replying to said that mental health isn't discussed after mass shootings but that just isn't true when it comes to white shooters.
The One Who Knocks
Member
Age 22:
Presumably he had therapists shortly before, or after, that as well, if not deemed stable by his parents. Between where you are, and the end, he goes into a little bit more detail about the counselling (and receives even more) he received but there is an implication, in his lamenting of their inefficiency. that he regularly went to some.
EDIT:
While I think I may disagree partly with the latter bit of the bolded, as I feel it was more done to spite people for losing such a 'great individual due to the incompassion of humanity', I do agree that there are major areas to make you suspect its validity, the awareness that others would read it, the partial desire to write fantasy, and most importantly:
However, regardless of how much is fabricated (and the specific, obsessive nature of it can be partly resolved by his comment that he has a diary), this gives an extreme insight into his outlook on many events, even if it is certainly missing many crucial items (or perhaps has some fabricated elements).
EDIT 2: And as Moral Panic stated, he doesn't make himself sound particularly good in it either. He acknowledges certain delusions, psychological flaws, and physical flaws, so he isn't, at the very least, completely relatable in it. Also, given the very detailed nature, it should be extremely easy to cross-reference events and determine how factual certain events are.
Ahh I see. Thank you for clarifying.
So I just finished reading the entire manifesto and a few things stuck out to me:
-His parent's wealth is a bit overstated. He was seemingly well connected more than anything else. The parents could have paid for him to go to something like the Bunny Ranch but he had no interest in prostitution as he felt it was degrading.
-He was a victim of bullying, from his perspective anyway. He was always a crybaby/whiner and seemed to take any slight very personally. Much of this stemmed from his height and physicality.
-He was obsessed with background and was definitely narcissistic. He makes a big emphasis on his background in the manifesto and how due to this, he was better than some random Mexican or Black.
-On that note, he was definitely racist. He felt other races were beneath him.
-He was jealous of everyone seemingly as he felt everybody was better than him. He interestingly enough had an insecurity complex along with the narcissism.
-He didn't get along with his stepmother at all. He felt that she was too controlling and manipulating his father.
-As for his mother, he seemingly despised her for not marrying into a wealthy family. He stated multiple times that she should sacrifice herself for his happiness and remarry(the parents got divorced) into money.
-He doesn't talk much about his sister other than her banging some guy and him being jealous of that.
-He was planning on killing his stepmother and half-brother because he didn't want his half-brother to have a better life than him
-Was a big World of Warcraft and Halo fanatic. I'm sure this will become a big talking point down the road.
-If things didn't go his way, he would throw a tantrum about it and try to force other people to resolve the situation instead of him doing it himself.
-People were recommending for him to move out of Isla Vista but he felt that it would be a failure on his part and if he couldn't be happy there, nobody should.
-His parents knew that he was offkilter and did try but he seemingly resented them for any intervention on their part.
-He was an entitled little shit and didn't appreciate a large number of things people tried to do for him.1
He had a lot of mental issues other than just misogyny.
-His parent's wealth is a bit overstated. He was seemingly well connected more than anything else. The parents could have paid for him to go to something like the Bunny Ranch but he had no interest in prostitution as he felt it was degrading.
-He was a victim of bullying, from his perspective anyway. He was always a crybaby/whiner and seemed to take any slight very personally. Much of this stemmed from his height and physicality.
-He was obsessed with background and was definitely narcissistic. He makes a big emphasis on his background in the manifesto and how due to this, he was better than some random Mexican or Black.
-On that note, he was definitely racist. He felt other races were beneath him.
-He was jealous of everyone seemingly as he felt everybody was better than him. He interestingly enough had an insecurity complex along with the narcissism.
-He didn't get along with his stepmother at all. He felt that she was too controlling and manipulating his father.
-As for his mother, he seemingly despised her for not marrying into a wealthy family. He stated multiple times that she should sacrifice herself for his happiness and remarry(the parents got divorced) into money.
-He doesn't talk much about his sister other than her banging some guy and him being jealous of that.
-He was planning on killing his stepmother and half-brother because he didn't want his half-brother to have a better life than him
-Was a big World of Warcraft and Halo fanatic. I'm sure this will become a big talking point down the road.
-If things didn't go his way, he would throw a tantrum about it and try to force other people to resolve the situation instead of him doing it himself.
-People were recommending for him to move out of Isla Vista but he felt that it would be a failure on his part and if he couldn't be happy there, nobody should.
-His parents knew that he was offkilter and did try but he seemingly resented them for any intervention on their part.
-He was an entitled little shit and didn't appreciate a large number of things people tried to do for him.1
He had a lot of mental issues other than just misogyny.
Sure, if the person said that they wanted to kill all black people and the whites who are friends with them. I don't know why his crime being motivated by misogyny is so hard to grasp for some people. He clearly stated that he hated women for going with "inferior" guys and he was jealous of men that he thought got all the women he wanted.
CHEEZMO
Obsidian fan
IISANDERII
Member
Being shattered as a little boy when his parents separated.
Age 22:
Presumably he had therapists shortly before, or after, that as well, if not deemed stable by his parents. Between where you are, and the end, he goes into a little bit more detail about the counselling (and receives even more) he received but there is an implication, in his lamenting of their inefficiency. that he regularly went to some.
I started to really get pissed off in this section, well more so than the other bits. People were trying to counsel him, and even help him to get laid, but he felt everybody was mocking him. His insecurity and stubbornness both fed into each other to point where he didn't want to get better as he felt he was fine the way he was and rather it was the world itself that was screwed up.
I also thought it was pretty clear that his father was cheating on his mom when they were married.
DoktorEvil
Banned
MRA, misogyny, and mental illness are the MO of this guy, so it stands to reason that these issues would get press.
If tabloids can get away with labeling him the "virgin killer" (which is a really stupid name) than why not talk about MRA?
From what I've seen on GAF and those other forum boards, it doesn't feel like a small group of men.
i've got a question for gun backers .....
when was the last one of these shooting sprees stopped by some joe public hero with a gun?
seems it's always the law enforcement guys ending things, or the killer shooting himself.
so what's the whole point with the we need guns to defend ourselves argument again?
when was the last one of these shooting sprees stopped by some joe public hero with a gun?
seems it's always the law enforcement guys ending things, or the killer shooting himself.
so what's the whole point with the we need guns to defend ourselves argument again?
Because it feels like saying that his crime was motivated by misogony is focusing on the least of this guys problem. If his goal was to kill women and men who are friends with them, we're dealing with a guy who wanted to kill every single person on earth.
Well, yeah. Why clearly the point about mental illness is obviously relevant to the discussion. Some people don't seem to think so though...
He was clearly misogynistic, but when looked at in the context of everything else, he would have found some other issue regardless. As I have said already, his reaction was always widely disproportionate to what triggered the reaction.
TwEE-N-Toast
Banned
Is there a site you're talking about in particular, because I've read some of that pua/inner game, get out of your comfort zone stuff. Was just Dale Carnegie type junk with some male bravado thrown in. And this guy kind of sounds like the opposite of them.
Has anybody blamed fedoras or video games yet?
entremet
Member
Where are you getting the MRA stuff? His anti-feminist diatribes?
They will. WoW was a very big aspect of his life and reinforced certain negative elements of his life, such as the loner/isolation stuff. He was a WoW addict for a good number of years.
SquiddyCracker
Banned
This guy was not about inner game, he was all about outer games and believed that increasing his "social value" would net him female contact automatically and with little effort. That's why he was so obsessed with trying to win the lottery, so he could become a multi-millionaire that women would automatically hook up with.
He assumed that the richer/beautiful/connected you were, the more women you would get, which lead to the confused rage whenever a "lesser man" ended up getting beautiful women.
DoktorEvil
Banned
Jesus Christ...
Disregard the paper. That's the Daily News stirring up shit to sell papers.
They're generally a rag in NY journalism.
They're the closest you'll get to yellow journalism.
From the manifesto, and from the online footprint he has.
He was a part of BB forums, PUA Hate, and another PUA site I can't recall the name of right now.
He had some posts on these sites and started a few threads before the regulars called him out on his shit and made fun of him.
They thought he was a troll.
SquiddyCracker
Banned
Stay classy Daily Mail:
I seriously hate comments like these. Not only they are a not-so-veiled-treath to women, but it also perpetuates the ridiculous stereotype that men unsucessful with women are all psychos.
I know many men who have zero sucess with girls yet none of them would ever, never thought of entering into a murdering rampage or hurting anyone. They couldn't kill a fly if they would want to. They are the incarnation of harmless, sometimes to their detriment.
Yet they are going to be labelled as dangerous creepy weirdos because of this retarded mentality about how being unsucessful with girls means that you are hiding some kind of inner psychopath ready to blow up at any moment rather than it being merely a question of being socially inept.
There's nothing "inevitable" about this massacre, or any massacre for that matter. Being bad at womanizing or being sex deprived is not going to "inevitably" turn you into a monster. People who wrote that kind of comment might have done it with the intention of excusing Elliot Rodger, but they are inadvertedly criminalizing any men that isn't sucessful with women and, ironically, contributing to build the type of social preassure (no girlfriend = looser) that edged Rodger towards madness.
Moral Panic
Member
You clearly didn't read the manifesto. Guy sounds absolutely crazy in it and not a sympathetic character at all.
The manifesto early on is more matter of factly and it's easy to sympathize with his life early on as it's pretty rote stuff. It's just later on when he starts to rage at the world does the manifest lose any sympathetic elements.
Mammoth Jones
Member
Jesus Christ...
Le sigh...
WhereAreMahDragonz
Banned
Regarding his misogyny (and racism
Yes, they are crucial, but I don't think they can be considered even close to a primary (or even secondary) cause of these events. Without the misogyny and racism, he would probably still ended up killing people.
??????
The entire reason why he did this is because he hated women and felt that they should throw themselves at him just because he was rich and had a nice car. If the misogyny and racism to fuel his hatred for women and the men they date wasn't there, I doubt he would have been driven to murder.
entremet
Member
BB, PUA Hate, PUA aren't MRA specifically, though. MRA isn't about pick up or getting girls. And Bodybuilding.com is not an MRA site.
I disagree with the MRA approach, which is basically anti feminist, but pick up and MRA aren't the same things.
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