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[USC-fan]

This has to be fake.

 

[Snowman Prophet of Doom]

Sure. She's being an idiot. I just have zero sympathy for people who endorse racists.

Also this is one woman and now it's national news.

Hey, the guy's prob an asshole, too. Never said otherwise. I'd argue she nevertheless comes across as worse, much as the students imploring university presidents to go after other students for chalking "Trump 2016" on quads come across to me as worse than whoever did the chalking in the first place.

 

[Shaanyboi]

Look, I'm no fan of Donald Trump or his campaign, but you can't go around preaching that you want a space where everyone feels safe and included, and then go and threaten someone over a hat. That kind of hypocritical attitude is a major reason why Trump has support among moderates. There will always be racists and bigots, but you can't seriously claim to be in support of free speech if you mean "free speech that goes along with what I find acceptable." All that does is push people away from what is a positive message.

It agitates me when people act like bullies under the guise of social justice.

"Freedom of speech" doesn't mean people don't have the right to call you an asshole.

 

[darscot]

But do you randomly accost people for it? The guy is a dork, but the woman behaved inappropriately as well.

She was completely appropriate. She told him her point of view and wanted him to remove the hat. She informed him that it would be considered hate speech and he should just avoid the hassle and remove it. When someone else had enough and took the hat she actually went to retrieve it to return it.

P.S. She used the term hate speech because it is exempt from freedom of speech. I personally think the hat is a stretch to be considered hate but it is going to be offensive.

 

[SystemBug]

But do you randomly accost people for it? The guy is a dork, but the woman behaved inappropriately as well.

If a dude is wearing that hat, where a large enough minority is present, I'm gonna say something.

 

[jcutner]

On the flip side, I saw these awesome hats at the HRC building in Provincetown

 

[Cocaloch]

She was completely appropriate. She told him her point of view and wanted him to remove the hat. She informed him that it would be considered hate speech and he should just avoid the hassle and remove it. When someone else had enough and took the hat she actually went to retrieve it to return it.

It's some people's point of view that Muslims should not wear burkas in the West. Some people argue it is patriarchal practice that reinforces harmful norms, and as a result it should not be worn.

Why you say it is appropriate for someone with this belief to approach someone wearing a Burka and telling them to take it off?

Or do we acknowledge that in real life it is considered fairly inappropriate to walk up to a random person and tell them about how they should dress.

P.S. She used the term hate speech because it is exempt from freedom of speech. I personally think the hat is a stretch to be considered hate but it is going to be offensive.

She called it hate speech in an attempt to justify her actions sure. That doesn't mean much though.

 

[D4Danger]

the guy that takes the hat at the end is so proud like "America is saved"

 

[darscot]

It's some people's point of view that Muslims should not wear burkas in the West. Some people argue it is patriarchal practice that reinforces harmful norms, and as a result it should not be worn.

Why you say it is appropriate for someone with this belief to approach someone wearing a Burka and telling them to take it off?

You missed the whole point about it being considered hate speech you are not protected by freedom of speech in Canada to speak hate. Your comparison makes no sense. A burka is protected under freedom of religion.

 

[SodiumBenzoate]

Thread title should be: Coddled Buffoon Triggered by Hat.

/thread


should probably add, ", thinks college tuition pays for total intellectual vacuum"

It's some people's point of view that Muslims should not wear burkas in the West. Some people argue it is patriarchal practice that reinforces harmful norms, and as a result it should not be worn.

Why you say it is appropriate for someone with this belief to approach someone wearing a Burka and telling them to take it off?

Or do we acknowledge that in real life it is considered fairly inappropriate to walk up to a random person and tell them about how they should dress.

Sorry, forcing cultural mores on strangers is only OK when it's people *I* don't sympathize with.

 

[Akiraptor]

"Freedom of speech" doesn't mean people don't have the right to call you an asshole.

Correct, but that's not what this young woman was doing. She was saying something along the lines of "if you don't do as I say, I'll alert the authorities."

 

[SystemBug]

It's some people's point of view that Muslims should not wear burkas in the West. Some people argue it is patriarchal practice that reinforces harmful norms, and as a result it should not be worn.

Why you say it is appropriate for someone with this belief to approach someone wearing a Burka and telling them to take it off?

Or do we acknowledge that in real life it is considered fairly inappropriate to walk up to a random person and tell them about how they should dress.

This isn't even the same thing. The Burka doesn't stand for what Trump's ideals stand for.

 

[excelsiorlef]

It's some people's point of view that Muslims should not wear burkas in the West. Some people argue it is patriarchal practice that reinforces harmful norms, and as a result it should not be worn.

Why you say it is appropriate for someone with this belief to approach someone wearing a Burka and telling them to take it off?

Or do we acknowledge that in real life it is considered fairly inappropriate to walk up to a random person and tell them about how they should dress.



She called it hate speech in an attempt to justify her actions sure. That doesn't mean much though.

The hat represents racism the other is xenophobic

 

[Sirpopopop]

But do you randomly accost people for it? The guy is a dork, but the woman behaved inappropriately as well.

If I went to school with them and I saw them on my way to class, I would say something.

 

[Cocaloch]

You missed the whole point about it being considered hate speech you are not protected by freedom of speech in Canada to speak hate. Your comparison makes no sense. A burka is protected under freedom of religion.

Calling it hate speech is a ridiculous which is why I ignored it.

If I went to school with them and I saw them on my way to class, I would say something.

Well if I saw this happen I wouldn't stop you, but I would certainly think it was inappropriate.

The hat represents racism the other is xenophobic

You'd call it hate speech, but people that believe it is problematic see it as being detrimental to women.

The point is you're making pretty arbitrary distinctions, which I agree with by the way, based on your own ideas about morality. You're free to do this, but you're still making an ass of yourself if you approach someone specifically to tell them how to dress.

 

[darscot]

Calling it hate speech is a ridiculous which is why I ignored it.

It's not ridiculous, I can see people thinking it is hateful. I tend to be on the side that it is freedom of speech and he can wear it if he wants. Everyone else has the right to tell him its offensive. The guy was looking for trouble when he put it on.

 

[Shaanyboi]

Correct, but that's not what this young woman was doing. She was saying something along the lines of "if you don't do as I say, I'll alert the authorities."

Which fucks up her point, absolutely. I still don't have a problem with anyone calling this guy an asshole.

 

[Snowman Prophet of Doom]

It's not ridiculous, I can see people thinking it is hateful. I tend to be on the side that it is freedom of speech and he can wear it if he wants. Everyone else has the right to tell him its offensive. The guy was looking for trouble when he put it on.

Asking him to take it off is fine. Telling him he CAN'T wear it and that you're going to contact the authorities and have them make him take it off is less fine.

 

[nicanica]

Real hate language

 

[Phrozenflame500]

I can't imagine caring so much as to run up and harass anybody for wearing opposing political signage.

It must take a lot of energy, sounds exhausting.

 

[darscot]

Asking him to take it off is fine. Telling him he CAN'T wear it and that you're going to contact the authorities and have them make him take it off is less fine.

That is not how I saw it, I don't remember exactly what she said but she seem to reference another situation that someone wore a shirt and was told to remove it. She is not threatening him, she is just saying remove it or it could get more serious. She is not saying taking it off or I will have someone hurt you.

 

[Cocaloch]

It's not ridiculous, I can see people thinking it is hateful. I tend to be on the side that it is freedom of speech and he can wear it if he wants. Everyone else has the right to tell him its offensive. The guy was looking for trouble when he put it on.

How is it not ridiculous to say any political slogan of a major party in an ongoing election is hate speech simply because it is of that party.

I'm not saying she didn't have a right to do what she did. I'm just saying doing that makes you look like a jerk.

From time to time I see Americans wearing shirts that support violent Irish republicanism (Up the IRA with a picture the is clearly of the PIRA etc.). I find this somewhat offensive, and incredibly tacky I really don't understand why someone would chose to do that in 2016, but I think its entirely inappropriate for me to accost people about it.

 

[Angelus Errare]

Honestly anyone wearing the hat is someone you can safely assume is an idiot and with avoiding or interesting with.

 

[darscot]

How is it not ridiculous to say any political slogan of a major party in an ongoing election is hate speech simply because it is of that party.

I'm not saying she didn't have a right to do what she did. I'm just saying doing that makes you look like a jerk.

Its Canada and people outside the US do not have the same view as inside. Trump is considered completely offensive, especially by that generation. She is a keener no doubt about it, but Universities are full of them.

 

[Snowman Prophet of Doom]

How is it not ridiculous to say any political slogan of a major party in an ongoing election is hate speech simply because it is of that party.

I'm not saying she didn't have a right to do what she did. I'm just saying doing that makes you look like a jerk.

It's not really of the party. It's of Donald Trump, whose movement is at least 80% founded on, at a bare minimum, continuing to ignore systemic problems that exist largely on demographic lines. To say that that is inherently hateful is incorrect, but to say that it is irresponsible and destructive, which is arguably only slightly better than hateful in that at least not all of them explicitly want to fuck others over just for being capital-O Others, is correct.

 

[stuminus3]

Gross on all fronts. The strange thing is neither of these people are as Canadian as me and I'm not even Canadian.

 

[Cocaloch]

Its Canada and people outside the US do not have the same view as inside. The guy is considered completely offensive, especially by that generation. She is a keener no doubt about it, but Universities are full of them.

I'm aware that places outside the US are not the same as the US. I also didn't say it wasn't offensive. Just that it isn't hate speech which is reasonably well defined in Canadian law. Ironically under Canadian law the t-shirt from the last post is a better example of hate speech.

It's not really of the party. It's of Donald Trump, whose movement is at least 80% founded on, at a bare minimum, continuing to ignore systemic problems that exist largely on demographic lines. To say that that is inherently hateful is incorrect, but to say that it is irresponsible and destructive, which is arguably only slightly better than hateful in that at least not all of them explicitly want to fuck others over just for being capital-O Others, is correct.

I mean I think Trump is terrible, and I think the guy that wore the hat is a loser for wearing a hat like that. That being said wearing the hat is not irresponsible and destructive; it's just dumb.

 

[PeregrinSe7en]

Look, I'm no fan of Donald Trump or his campaign, but you can't go around preaching that you want a space where everyone feels safe and included, and then go and threaten someone over a hat. That kind of hypocritical attitude is a major reason why Trump has support among moderates. There will always be racists and bigots, but you can't seriously claim to be in support of free speech if you mean "free speech that goes along with what I find acceptable." All that does is push people away from what is a positive message.

It agitates me when people act like bullies under the guise of social justice.

well said

freedom of speech goes both ways

we might as well be communist if it could only be one way

 

[excelsiorlef]

Asking him to take it off is fine. Telling him he CAN'T wear it and that you're going to contact the authorities and have them make him take it off is less fine.

Meh who cares it's a toothless threat.

 

[You Are Viewtiful]

Racists should be pointed out and shamed. I'm glad she did what she did. The moment where people can be openly comfortably racist is when we regress.

 

[The Internet]

Calgary is Trump Country, majority of white people here want him to win.

 

[Shaanyboi]

It's some people's point of view that Muslims should not wear burkas in the West. Some people argue it is patriarchal practice that reinforces harmful norms, and as a result it should not be worn.

Why you say it is appropriate for someone with this belief to approach someone wearing a Burka and telling them to take it off?

Or do we acknowledge that in real life it is considered fairly inappropriate to walk up to a random person and tell them about how they should dress.



She called it hate speech in an attempt to justify her actions sure. That doesn't mean much though.

A burka doesn't affect anyone outside of the person choosing to wear it. You can have issues with what it represents or how some families adopt it, and that's perfectly valid, but someone wearing it ultimately doesn't affect anyone around them.

I went to MRU, this very same university and walked down those very same halls. There are plenty of muslim students attending there. If they see that hat supporting a campaign that is utterly inseparable from racism and fear-mongering, what message do you think it sends to them? That symbol represents the rising xenophobia that has only put members of the muslim community in genuine fucking danger.

 

[darscot]

I'm aware that places outside the US are not the same as the US. I also didn't say it wasn't offensive. Just that it isn't hate speech which I is reasonably well defined in Canadian law.

I agree it isn't hate speech but I feel it is an acceptable argument to make especially at university. It's not outside the realm of possibility that she wins that argument but she is an underdog for sure.

 

[Snowman Prophet of Doom]

Meh who cares it's a toothless threat.

I care in that it's emblematic of a militant, anti-freedom-if-it-impinges-on-our-goals side of the left that has grown in recent years. I started off as a libertarian, and while I had the economic side of that thoroughly beaten out of me, I'm still basically philosophically libertarian.

 

[Cocaloch]

I agree it isn't hate speech but I feel it is an acceptable argument to make especially at university. It's not outside the realm of possibility that she wins that argument but she is an underdog for sure.

It isn't though. Hate speech has a definition and a reasonable person would not suggest that a hat that says "Make America Great Again" is going to incite violence against a specific group.

A burka doesn't affect anyone outside of the person choosing to wear it. You can have issues with what it represents or how some families adopt it, and that's perfectly valid, but someone wearing it ultimately doesn't affect anyone around them.

I mean the hate really isn't going to affect others, let's be honest about that. It's a symptom not the disease.

That symbol represents the rising xenophobia that has only put members of the muslim community in genuine fucking danger.

If you honestly believe the hat might cause someone danger then feel free to do something about it. I wouldn't question your action at that point, only your judgement.

 

[darscot]

It isn't though. Hate speech has a definition and a reasonable person would not suggest that a hat that says "Make America Great Again" is going to incite violence against a specific group.

See the beauty of a discussion is they have two sides and there is grey area in the middle. Its not just as simply as you are wrong I am right. It is a debatable point. There has been plenty of violence incited by what that hat represents.

 

[Cocaloch]

See the beauty of a discussion is they have two sides and there is grey area in the middle. Its not just as simply as you are wrong I am right. It is a debatable point.

There is an idea in common law countries of the reasonable person that is relevant here. A reasonable person at the bare minimum would not agree that it incites anything "against a specific group". Just about anything is a debatable point, but that doesn't mean both sides are equally right.

 

[SystemBug]

A burka doesn't affect anyone outside of the person choosing to wear it. You can have issues with what it represents or how some families adopt it, and that's perfectly valid, but someone wearing it ultimately doesn't affect anyone around them.

I went to MRU, this very same university and walked down those very same halls. There are plenty of muslim students attending there. If they see that hat supporting a campaign that is utterly inseparable from racism and fear-mongering, what message do you think it sends to them? That symbol represents the rising xenophobia that has only put members of the muslim community in genuine fucking danger.

nah but its okay cause FREEDOMSSS

 

[AntChum]

Good for her; she was absolutely spot on in calling out the 'Make America Great Again' slogan for the coded bullshit it is. Some of you will mock her for the safe space comment, but she's not wrong; spaces should be kept free of bigoted ideologies whose adherents show a knack for violence against detractors.

 

[darscot]

There is an idea in common law countries of the reasonable person that is relevant here. A reasonable person would not agree at the bare minimum that it incites anything "against a specific group".

He is campaigning directly against Muslims and throwing minorities out of the country. It's a debatable point. I'm heading out so I'm done for today.

 

[Stinkles]

Dude wore the hat to get this exact reaction.

 

[psaman17]

He's allowed to wear whatever the hell he wants. He's allowed to identify himself as a republican supporter.

Most likely just a attention seeking troll though.

 

[Cocaloch]

nah but its okay cause FREEDOMSSS

If this is directed towards me then its sad this discussion lasted such a short time before devolving into gross misrepresentation and oversimplification. I guess I should point out that I'm far to the left of both the Democrats and Republicans before I get misrepresented even more.

He is campaigning directly against Muslims and throwing minorities out of the country. It's a debatable point. I'm heading out so I'm done for today.

But Trump isn't the object in question it's the hat. It's debatable, but so is almost everything so that's a pretty empty point.

Issues like this are why the Left is an ouroboros now. I honestly believe that some in the left are giving ammo to the right to convince more centrist individuals when they call for stuff like this. It's self-defeating.

 

[Sub_Level]

That was like the most kind-hearted and polite spat I've seen.

 

[Chie Satonaka]

Dude wore the hat to get this exact reaction.

I agree.

 

[Izuna]

there's a queen pupinia picture for every trump thread.

people can't ironically wear this hat? it's not the confederate flag

He's allowed to wear whatever the hell he wants. He's allowed to identify himself as a republican supporter.

Most likely just a attention seeking troll though.

this is exactly it

 

[excelsiorlef]

I care in that it's emblematic of a militant, anti-freedom-if-it-impinges-on-our-goals side of the left that has grown in recent years. I started off as a libertarian, and while I had the economic side of that thoroughly beaten out of me, I'm still basically philosophically libertarian.

It's literally one person with no systemic power.

 

[NullPointer]

Thread title should be: Coddled Buffoon Triggered by Hat.

Indeed. Get a grip, people.

 

[vwnut13]

The legend of this hat is becoming humongous!

 

[Snowman Prophet of Doom]

It's literally one person with no systemic power.

Hence why I said it's "emblematic", not that it, itself, is specifically a huge problem.