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[EatinOlives]

Just like Splatoon, this is about taking a potentially challenging tool or new idea and giving it to the player in pieces so they are not overwhelmed.

This isn't a new concept, as it's used in gaming all the time.

The problem with this implementation is that it's not tied to the player's activity at all. Most all other unlock systems designed to ease you into increasingly more complex game design do so taking player activity into account. Some measure of skill level, collectibles, time devoted, or what have you is factored into how often to unlock this content.

Mario Maker doesn't give a shit how fast or slow people learn their tools. You're a fast learner and grasped everything within 6 hours? Fuck you, you don't get the rest of the content for another 210 IRL hours. Doesn't matter if you booted up the game for 5 minutes just to get credit for your log-in each day, thus learning nothing new about the editor each time consecutive day, and it doesn't matter if you're honing your skills for literally all of those 210 hours. It's a very unintelligent system and doesn't actually do anything to guarantee that you'll progressively learn more about the editor like they intended to. It's just a bad implementation of a common gaming concept.

In a typical Mario game the game got more complex/harder with each level, and each was unlocked when a previous one was cleared, thus ensuring to the game designer that the player has at least encountered the simpler game design. If one player spent 1 hour in one level because he/she found it very hard, the game will unlock itself slower than someone who blasted through that level in 3 minutes. Mario Maker's "system" forces the second player to wait a rigid amount of time (e.g., 1 hour) for the next level to unlock because Nintendo doesn't want to make a more dynamic unlock method, and they certainly don't want to unlock things "too fast" for new players who may find it overwhelming.

 

[Aaronrules380]

That's the way I see them thinking, but the way I see it, that's more of a reason for people not to bother being early adopters. Unless everyone's stuck behind this 9 Day Timer no matter when they pick up this game, like some of the stuff in WarioWare: DIY was.

It sounded like everyone is affected

 

[To Far Away Times]

I'll never forget the mental breakdown I suffered when I first saw a 1UP mushroom. What did 1 UP even mean? Why didn't I get bigger? What was the meaning of "lives?" The shock and horror of these challenging Mario mechanics was simply too much to process. Thank God Nintendo in 2015 knows that gamers can't handle an overwhelming amount of ideas on day 1.

It's a good thing this game with all its tools and expiramentation is as basic to grasp as a game in the mid 80's with relatively few rules. For some, this will be the first game they ever play.

Many other games do similar things with slowly building upon existing content, they just do it in less transparent ways.

 

[Forkball]

Nobody's perfect. There is no company with a perfect record for product launches. Not even Apple.

My point being that no one, especially Nintendo, is immune to making bad decisions. Several people in this thread has stated that since Nintendo put it in the game, it must be the best idea! These kind of bizarre, out of touch decisions are why Nintendo is struggling this gen.

 

[Tybolt]

It's a fair testament to the fact Nintendo seems to like to treat its playerbase like its children, which is very grating as an adult.

It's also terrible to see that a game based around a level-designer doesn't let you access all of its elements all at once. Count me in on the boat of people who think Nintendo will get away with this because Nintendo. If LittleBigPlanet did this, it would be burned at the stake.

 

[ViperVisor]

Not a deal at all.

It's a trick that works. It makes you come back to the level editor try this new option out.

 

[A Link to the Past]

I agree with people that this has the potential to alienate players though.

 

[ElTorro]

The notion that people believe Nintendo didn't do this without proper market research and focus group testing is astonishing.

Oh my sweet summer child.

 

[RagnarokX]

Then I hate it

Splatoon is neat because it's like, if you're not looking at the text dumps you don't know anything about it.

We've seen tons of this stuff, like the Chain Chomp, and then we're going to get the game and wait nine days to use Chain Chomps.

But can't we just move the clock ahead nine days? Or is it a flat "nine days after release, this shit is available"?

That's the way I see them thinking, but the way I see it, that's more of a reason for people not to bother being early adopters. Unless everyone's stuck behind this 9 Day Timer no matter when they pick up this game, like some of the stuff in WarioWare: DIY was.

The unlocks are to the individual. You have to use the editor for 5 minutes and then a new shipment of tools will be queued for unlock on the next day. Hopefully you can play 5 minutes, roll the clock forward a day, and repeat that until you unlock everything.

 

[ElectricBlanketFire]

Nintendo, I'm not seven years old. Can you stop? Please?

7-year-olds would have no problem with this.

Not a deal at all.

It's a trick that works. It makes you come back to the level editor try this new option out.

I don't need to be "tricked" into using the fire flower by waiting a day.

 

[Golgo 13]

This doesn't bother me that much, but then again I'm not a big creator in these types of games (I enjoy playing created levels just don't usually make many), so for those eager to jump right into the fray, I can see the frustration.

Maybe they did this because stuff like Little big Planet was too intimidating for some people, so this is to prevent amateur creators from being overwhelmed from the get-go.

 

[Kyou]

The unlocks are to the individual. You have to use the editor for 5 minutes and then a new shipment of tools will be queued for unlock on the next day. Hopefully you can play 5 minutes, roll the clock forward a day, and repeat that until you unlock everything.

I don't see any way they could stop you from doing this unless the game phones home and checks the date, which would mean there's no way for offline people to unlock more tools

 

[KingBroly]

So...you have to spend a minimum of 40 minutes over the course of 8 days with the level editor to unlock everything? That's...disappointing...sigh. If it were unlocking content that we had never seen before it would definitely be more palpable, but considering we've seen so much of it is just frustrating. And it's not like Splatoon where it unlocks for everyone every day, it's by a per person basis.

What made LBP intimidating for people to make levels was multi-faceted
- The tutorials were pretty harsh
- To unlock everything, you had to 100% every main story level, so you had to do A LOT of work to make a level you wanted

 

[backlot]

That's the way I see them thinking, but the way I see it, that's more of a reason for people not to bother being early adopters. Unless everyone's stuck behind this 9 Day Timer no matter when they pick up this game, like some of the stuff in WarioWare: DIY was.

The trailer says you have to spend 5 minutes playing per day to unlock the next set of tools. You can't just wait til 9 days after launch and start with everything unlocked. It will continue to affect players beyond early adopters.

 

[A Link to the Past]

The unlocks are to the individual. You have to use the editor for 5 minutes and then a new shipment of tools will be queued for unlock on the next day. Hopefully you can play 5 minutes, roll the clock forward a day, and repeat that until you unlock everything.

Hoping that turns out to be the case. I hope Nintendo is like "bwuhh" when they see people putting up all of these levels with shit from day nine on day one.

 

[Laws00]

that's some bull shit right there

 

[timetokill]

Getting really tired of Nintendo's antics.

LittleBigPlanet, the series this game is most similar to and basically copying, NEVER pulled a stunt like this. This ain't a budget game either (which arguably it should be), it's full priced which makes this even worse. This is looking more and more like a "pass".

Ahahahahaha

Platformer has a level creator = it's copying LBP

Should be budget priced

so much nonsense in one post lol

 

[TheBaronOfNA]

Not a deal at all.

It's a trick that works. It makes you come back to the level editor try this new option out.

Like mobile games...

 

[The Lamonster]

So essentially, this game has been delayed for 9 days.

Guess I will wait until 9/20 to open my copy.

 

[backlot]

So essentially, this game has been delayed for 9 days.

Guess I will wait until 9/20 to open my copy.

You have to play it every day to unlock the tools. You won't have all the tools unlocked until 18 days after launch if you do this.

 

[cacildo]

"Nintendo we are not children!!!!" Then why are you reacting as one?

 

[B4s5C]

I feel Day 2 could be more incorporated with Day 1 but otherwise, I don't see a big deal in getting new content everyday.

As someone who isn't the biggest Mario fan, I have no idea what some of those things do so a casual introduction would be good as I practice making levels. However, I can foresee myself getting frustrated if I get bored having to use the same basic tools day in and day out.

I think its interesting and I will try it out with an open mind. At first I thought Rocket League was dumb but if I had a more open mind starting out, it would have been more additional time for me to enjoy the game. Likewise with CS and all the changes Valve seems to make every year.\


Edit: By seeing some of the reactions here, maybe some of you all should just try relaxing a bit? I mean, stuff like this isn't targeted to kids. Behavior conditioning (if the goal is to get you to turn on the game everyday and be rewarded with new stuff) works on all levels. Also, there might be a bit of a perception issue on Nintendo's side because they might put a lot of hard work into making 2D Mario games and believe that the toolset can get a bit complex. Easing casual users (who they are marketing to heavily) might be a great way to bring out creativity later on. There are a lot of reasons to do this. Also, not dismissing frustration as its expected from the hardcore fan base that could probably handle these tools. Just the comments about being treated like a kid kind of irk me.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Like mobile games...

Or Animal Crossing

 

[JoshGrilli]

I'm fine with this, it's not stupid. It's teaching players how to use the tools. Sure everyone knows how to play a mario game but I'm sure not everyone can make a great mario level. I think its a great way to acclimate both new and old players to level creation.

 

[biglittleps]

So nintendo trying same splatoon trick here (as they saw big success), so they can control the sales by locking content and releasing slowly to keep gamers thinking and asking to wait for the content they paid. This is really stupid move and hope gamers stop this shit by not supporting otherwise Nintendo will do more of these using their IP's weakness over gamers.

 

[Tertullian]

Nintendo's decision-making is hilariously inept. It seriously feels like they're run by an alien. An alien who hallucinates from time to time, and who has never worked outside of a rigidly heirarchical Kyoto company, and who is only vaguely aware that more than one country exists.

 

[JoshGrilli]

So essentially, this game has been delayed for 9 days.

Guess I will wait until 9/20 to open my copy.

Okay so you will be waiting until the 29th to get to try everything out? Weird logic.

 

[TheBaronOfNA]

Or Animal Crossing

But I don't think this game will remember my birthday.

 

[Sephzilla]

The Splatoon comparisons honestly don't make sense. Splatoon's slow roll out was done to keep an audience around and keep the experience fresh for an online shooter, and the roll out was done over a fairly long amount of time. Mario Maker isn't as online heavy as Splatoon is and the length of time for this roll out isn't substantial enough to say "yeah, it's for the better of the community". All this 9 day wait thing does is basically keep the selling point of the game locked away, and at least for the first week and a half it's going to make the online portion of Mario Maker slightly less interesting since every level will be on a limited palette.

This in absolutely no way is a deal breaker, nor should it be for anyone, it's just a really head scratching decision that seems to do more harm than good. It's also going to frustrate people as well because I highly doubt most people are going to sit down for just 5 minutes and then walk away. They're going to want to make more and more stuff as they go on, and if they see stuff online that they don't have access to (for people who get this outside of launch) it's going to add to the frustration. Overall its just not a good decision and I don't think Nintendo thought this out very well.

 

[A Link to the Past]

"Nintendo we are not children!!!!" Then why are you reacting as one?

What, it's childish to say "Nintendo, that's bad game design"?

 

[Dragmire]

Is this really a big deal? We will have scads of levels that will show us what can be accomplished with the tools and help us make better levels. And the time released content might help that too.

If nintendo wants the user created levels to be of higher quality, then I'm okay with this strange method of introducing people to the editor slowly. Or even if it doesn't help me, it won't break me either. It's not a big deal.

 

[TheCochese]

Still buying it, but just another way Nintendo doesn't understand their market.

 

[biglittleps]

I'm fine with this, it's not stupid. It's teaching players how to use the tools. Sure everyone knows how to play a mario game but I'm sure not everyone can make a great mario level. I think its a great way to acclimate both new and old players to level creation.

What if someone learnt the lesson quickly ? why he should wait just because of other players can't learn fast for the content he paid? Game should be designed so it can unlock based on skills needed to progress but not teaching like this. If nintendo want to control content like this then they should make this game F2P and charge based on content allowed.

 

[Regiruler]

I wish it was an actual unlock method rather than an arbitrary piecemeal, but whatever

 

[The Lamonster]

You have to play it every day to unlock the tools. You won't have all the tools unlocked until 18 days after launch if you do this.

oh wow. that is fucking stupid

 

[Justified]

I can see why Nintendo is doing this, they want to keep the game "fresh" with artificial time release of content, and then claim the are giving out free DLC, at least thats what the Splatoon supporters said.

However the argument that they are doing this as to not overwhelm gamers is ridiculous, and patronizing frankly

 

[Laws00]

if i could play the game for 5 minutes and unlock stuff every 5 minutes (to the 45 minute mark) that i'm playing the game then i'd be perfectly fine with that

 

[biglittleps]

Is this really a big deal? We will have scads of levels that will show us what can be accomplished with the tools and help us make better levels. And the time released content might help that too.

If nintendo wants the user created levels to be of higher quality, then I'm okay with this strange method of introducing people to the editor slowly. Or even if it doesn't help me, it won't break me either. It's not a big deal.

It may not look big deal right now but if nintendo thinks gamers are going to support this then they will implement same shit in future games too (giving ideas to other publishers too as it worked). So it should be stopped before it gets worst.

 

[Chase17]

It would be funny if this is like animal crossing where you can change the date on your system to get to other parts of the game sooner.

 

[KingBroly]

What if someone learnt the lesson quickly ? why he should wait just because of other players can't learn fast for the content he paid? Game should be designed so it can unlock based on skills needed to progress but not teaching like this. If nintendo want to control content like this then they should make this game F2P and charge based on content allowed.

Just because you learn something quickly doesn't mean you know how to apply it correctly.

Or maybe you'd just rather pay an extra $5 to unlock it immediately?

 

[DSix]

Between that and Splatoon, it seems Nintendo is gearing up for even more F2P tactics for their main platforms.

Arbitrary timers are the first step.

 

[ffdgh]

It's only nine days but still...lol wut? Why?

 

[Peltz]

No doubt about it. This is a bone headed move. Will I be there day 1? Yes. But, day 1 could have been way more fun if not for this decision.

 

[B4s5C]

However the argument that they are doing this as to not overwhelm gamers is ridiculous, and patronizing frankly

For the gamer demographic that makes up NeoGaf yes. Not so patronizing for the gamer demographic that makes up Facebook. More users with the game=more diverse levels. But I understand your frustration.

 

[Jaymageck]

Man, some people must be really intent on being completely burnt out on a game within 2 days, otherwise no one should care about this.

Even if you have some kind of passionate belief about your right to access the disc content or whatever, it's 9 freakin' days.

I don't think there's much point in Nintendo doing this, but I can't fathom why I would muster some rage over it.

 

[A Link to the Past]

It would be funny if this is like animal crossing where you can change the date on your system to get to other parts of the game sooner.

That's what I'm hoping for!

Man, some people must be really intent on being completely burnt out on a game within 2 days, otherwise no one should care about this.

Even if you have some kind of passionate belief about your right to access the disc content or whatever, it's 9 freakin' days.

I don't think there's much point in Nintendo doing this, but I can't fathom why I would muster some rage over it.

What are you talking about? Should the people who want to make levels using parts from days 7 8 and 9 just be ignored on why this is a bad idea?

Also "rage" and "criticism" are different. No one is raging.

 

[Platy]

I feel Day 2 could be more incorporated with Day 1 but otherwise, I don't see a big deal in getting new content everyday.

As someone who isn't the biggest Mario fan, I have no idea what some of those things do so a casual introduction would be good as I practice making levels. However, I can foresee myself getting frustrated if I get bored having to use the same basic tools day in and day out.

I think its interesting and I will try it out with an open mind. At first I thought Rocket League was dumb but if I had a more open mind starting out, it would have been more additional time for me to enjoy the game. Likewise with CS and all the changes Valve seems to make every year.\


Edit: By seeing some of the reactions here, maybe some of you all should just try relaxing a bit? I mean, stuff like this isn't targeted to kids. Behavior conditioning (if the goal is to get you to turn on the game everyday and be rewarded with new stuff) works on all levels. Also, there might be a bit of a perception issue on Nintendo's side because they might put a lot of hard work into making 2D Mario games and believe that the toolset can get a bit complex. Easing casual users (who they are marketing to heavily) might be a great way to bring out creativity later on. There are a lot of reasons to do this. Also, not dismissing frustration as its expected from the hardcore fan base that could probably handle these tools. Just the comments about being treated like a kid kind of irk me.

Remember that some of those change when you change styles.... so it is more than just those itens... and that is ignoring the shake and power up mixes

 

[Berordn]

I don't think there's much point in Nintendo doing this, but I can't fathom why I would muster some rage over it.

It would definitely rustle my jimmies if I had an idea for a level that I've been dying to try since E32014 and can't do it when I pay 60 dollars to get my highly anticipated game only to find out that I arbitrarily haven't had it for "long enough."

 

[Crisium]

9 day tutorial

Now ive seen it all

Sad, but true. I think introducing content in steps is a good idea. But not like this. How about a traditional tutorial?

 

[biglittleps]

Just because you learn something quickly doesn't mean you know how to apply it correctly.

Or maybe you'd just rather pay an extra $5 to unlock it immediately?

Not everyone can be perfected and even those half baked stuff also fun for some users. So its subjective to user and wont apply same for all. And I won't pay and will unlock by learning. I'm not asking them to unlock everything by paying price, just asking them to price the game according to content allowed to access.