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[foltzie1]

This isn't a new concept, as it's used in gaming all the time.

The problem with this implementation is that it's not tied to the player's activity at all. Most all other unlock systems designed to ease you into increasingly more complex game design do so taking player activity into account. Some measure of skill level, collectibles, time devoted, or what have you is factored into how often to unlock this content.

Mario Maker doesn't give a shit how fast or slow people learn their tools. You're a fast learner and grasped everything within 6 hours? Fuck you, you don't get the rest of the content for another 210 IRL hours. Doesn't matter if you booted up the game for 5 minutes just to get credit for your log-in each day, thus learning nothing new about the editor each time consecutive day, and it doesn't matter if you're honing your skills for literally all of those 210 hours. It's a very unintelligent system and doesn't actually do anything to guarantee that you'll progressively learn more about the editor like they intended to. It's just a bad implementation of a common gaming concept.

In a typical Mario game the game got more complex/harder with each level, and each was unlocked when a previous one was cleared, thus ensuring to the game designer that the player has at least encountered the simpler game design. If one player spent 1 hour in one level because he/she found it very hard, the game will unlock itself slower than someone who blasted through that level in 3 minutes. Mario Maker's "system" forces the second player to wait a rigid amount of time (e.g., 1 hour) for the next level to unlock because Nintendo doesn't want to make a more dynamic unlock method, and they certainly don't want to unlock things "too fast" for new players who may find it overwhelming.

What would you suggest as a more dynamic method for this type of game? I am not thinking of a better metric.

 

[TheBaronOfNA]

I can see why Nintendo is doing this, they want to keep the game "fresh" with artificial time release of content, and then claim the are giving out free DLC, at least thats what the Splatoon supporters said.

However the argument that they are doing this as to not overwhelm gamers is ridiculous, and patronizing frankly

They will be not able to use the "free DLC" argument again as more of their games have online components. In Splatoon case they got the fortune of goodwill from costumes and that it makes sense that a online competitive shooter have content that is unlocked over time as a why to make people get back to the game. With Mario Maker they can't sell the timed unlocks as weapons as is actual parts of the editor.

 

[KingBroly]

I won't pay and will unlock by learning. I'm not asking them to unlock everything by paying price, just asking them to price the game according to content allowed to access.

Well good thing you're allowed to access all of it then, unlike other games that lock cosmetics and such behind paywalls despite it already being on the disc. Full price it is.

 

[Justified]

For the gamer demographic that makes up NeoGaf yes. Not so patronizing for the gamer demographic that makes up Facebook. More users with the game=more diverse levels. But I understand your frustration.

I understand what you and other are saying, however holding back content behind a time gate, should not be the way to do it. This could set a very bad precedent. I would hate to see console games go the way of F2P games with a "stamina clock" or something.

If they really want to hand-hold the casual demographics implement a mandatory tutorial that all must pass before the full gamut of tools are available

 

[A Link to the Past]

Well good thing you're allowed to access all of it then, unlike other games that lock cosmetics and such behind paywalls despite it already being on the disc. Full price it is.

If Nintendo was charging for these level elements, they would get such a shitstorm. They -couldn't- charge people for this content.

If Nintendo ever charges for Mario Maker DLC, they basically need to add about a Mario Maker's worth of content. Six new settings, new characters, new enemies, new items, new obstacles, new platforms, etc.

 

[TheBaronOfNA]

For the gamer demographic that makes up NeoGaf yes. Not so patronizing for the gamer demographic that makes up Facebook. More users with the game=more diverse levels. But I understand your frustration.

But this is not a Facebook game and I doubt it would sell to much of that audience as is not free to begin with. The closer, apart from the game enthusiasts, is the COD or Minecraft kids that get this as a gift. The CoD kid is going to be surprised that he cannot unlock timed stuff by playing the game and the Minecraft kid will be dissapointed as Nintendo believes that he needs to wait (not play to earn it) before having access to this stuff.

 

[Nose Master]

Mildly annoying, but oh well. It's only 9 days. Really weird, though. They must be off on that day-one patch tech.

 

[ika]

In the contrary, Nintendo has to come up with ideas to emulate the rest of the industry, in this case, the game not fully working until days after release date.

Obviously they can't botch the game so it doesn't work, instead, they hide some content.

Think about it this way: if this was a western company game, you wouldn't be able to use these items, they would crash the game.

I chuckled.

On topic: I was fearing something like this but it's not as bad as I thought. At least it seems we can choose between four styles and six level themes as soon as we load the game.

Like they did with the Wii U?

Yeah, like if EAD game developers and testers have anything to do with engineering, hardware, marketing and such...

 

[TheBaronOfNA]

Yeah, is not a deal breaker but is just a reminder of how weird Nintendo can be or how superficial can be in taking elements from other genres or games.

And, of course, is not all Nintendo or their employees as Sakurai is the king of progression unlocks.

 

[EatinOlives]

What would you suggest as a more dynamic method for this type of game? I am not thinking of a better metric.

Design and complete a level that uses a subset of (or maybe all) the assets of the previous "tier". It at the very least guarantees to the game designer that the player will have SEEN the assets, both in the editor and in action in a level.

I know what people's rebuttals will be: "bu- bu- but anyone can throw a bunch of shit together in a flat level! It doesn't mean they'll master it!" The current system doesn't do that either. It no more guarantees a better understanding of the assets than any other unlock system that is tied to player activity instead.

 

[Ooccoo]

Aren't there 100 levels on the disc? Make the tools unlockable for each 10 of them (not sure how many tools are locked).

 

[KirbYuuYuu]

9 days is like 5 years to gamers. They didn't think about the gamers and that is terrible.

 

[Luq]

That's weird but im still getting this. It's the only game right now that stops me from selling my Wii U

 

[Velcro Fly]

Nintendo needs to knock it the fuck off with releasing shit over time.

I buy the game and I want it. I don't care if the community dies in a week or two. I don't care if you don't think we're ready for this shit.

They did it with Splatoon and I didn't buy the game. Now I'm stuck with 9 days of shit before I get the full Mario Maker game? Come the fuck on with this shit.

 

[Maintenance]

People saying "this isn't for you! They are trying to cater to the mass audience!"

Please, the Wii U barely broke 10m units, do you still think the mass audience is still even there?

 

[hydragonwarrior]

Give people the option to turn it off. I'm sure kids weren't overwhelmed when they were learning to use Mario fucking Paint.

 

[ChrisD]

I literally don't see any good reason for this. It's not even going to ease anyone in, because it's only nine days. If that's what they were aiming for it would have been simple enough to segregate parts of the game into "Beginner" pieces and then the rest.

 

[Dreavus]

Not the best way to do it.

My guess is they got a (mostly) positive response from how they rolled out content in Splatoon, so they're continuing the trend here. The problem is that this game is completely different – a creative focused single player game.

First "9 days" aside, I hope they continue to add tools to the game post release as well.

 

[Conan-san]

People saying "this isn't for you! They are trying to cater to the mass audience!"

Please, the Wii U barely broke 10m units, do you still think the mass audience is still even there?

Oh FFS.

 

[EatinOlives]

People saying "this isn't for you! They are trying to cater to the mass audience!"

Please, the Wii U barely broke 10m units, do you still think the mass audience is still even there?

Yeah I don't get that argument either. Nintendo fans are overwhelmingly the demographic of the Wii U owners.

 

[TheBaronOfNA]

People saying "this isn't for you! They are trying to cater to the mass audience!"

Please, the Wii U barely broke 10m units, do you still think the mass audience is still even there?

If anything, this is done to make people come back to the game as "new content" unlocks.

 

[xaszatm]

People saying "this isn't for you! They are trying to cater to the mass audience!"

Please, the Wii U barely broke 10m units, do you still think the mass audience is still even there?

...yes. Yes there is. There is a deep problem with NeoGaf in which many people think they are the center of gaming and the largest buyers. We're not. We're not even close. If the Wii U truly only sold to core gamers, they, as with any system, would not even reach the 1 million mark sold.

 

[Arttemis]

Theory... You are less likely to trade in the game when you haven't gained access to everything. What better way to gate content than outright denying customers access with a hard lock.

 

[GRW810]

Are there really people in here freaking out because they have to wait nine days for some features? Good lord.

 

[massoluk]

I cancelled my pre-order, no joke. I play games on my own time and don't want to wait for the full experience to be unlocked. People may see it as an overreaction but I have such little time to play games now with work and school I don't need anymore restrictions.

This sort of unlocking is tailored, imho, exactly to people like you. People who can only play 30 minutes before going to work, or before going to sleep each day. This method is in direct contrast to play 5 hours to unlocked so-and-so, or clearing 10 level to unlock a new skin.

*This is not an endorsement of the method. It's annoying, no way around. But whatever the case, in one week and a half, it will become a non-factor.

 

[ElectricBlanketFire]

Are there really people in here freaking out because they have to wait nine days for some features? Good lord.

A very small minority of people are "freaking out."

 

[Velcro Fly]

oh my fucking god this is the most ridiculous thing i've ever seen

this replaces the DLC/version spreadsheet at the top level of the bullshit o meter that game publishers push onto consumers

Day 1 is literally like an E3 2014 build of the game. Who the fuck wants to go back to that?

 

[Brian_FETO]

When the 9 days have passed and all of the levels are masterfully created by creators given the time to let their skills naturally grow and progress, the true genius of Mario Maker's content rollout will be known

Or it's just pointless, seeing as 9 days is a long enough time to be annoyed if you've been looking forward to this game, but not long enough where you'll suddenly be an amazing designer. Maybe the tutorial designers have already moved on to NX, so this was the next best thing

Spoiler

lol

 

[Jigorath]

Are there really people in here freaking out because they have to wait nine days for some features? Good lord.

It's not "freaking out" to criticize Nintendo on something.

Now, I'm wondering if we can just move the internal clock on the WiiU forward nine days and unlock everything that way. You know, pull a Metal Gear Solid 3.

 

[TheBaronOfNA]

...yes. Yes there is. There is a deep problem with NeoGaf in which many people think they are the center of gaming and the largest buyers. We're not. We're not even close. If the Wii U truly only sold to core gamers, they, as with any system, would not even reach the 1 million mark sold.

I think you concept of "core gamer" is flawed if you think is reduced to "forum poster".

 

[shaowebb]

9 days is longer than most people who talk about games on this board actually play any game though lol.

 

[Cathcart]

From what I saw in the video, day one you aren't even going to be able to recreate 1-1 from Super Mario Bros

Damn it, this was finally going to be my chance to play 1-1 from SMB.

Now, I'm wondering if we can just move the internal clock on the WiiU forward nine days and unlock everything that way. You know, pull a Metal Gear Solid 3.

Time Paradox.

 

[Gator86]

It's not "freaking out" to criticize Nintendo on something.

Now, I'm wondering if we can just move the internal clock on the WiiU forward nine days and unlock everything that way. You know, pull a Metal Gear Solid 3.

To many people, criticizing Nintendo is basically freaking out. I'm hoping the time trick works. I planned to just rent this and dragging the unlocks out for 9 days isn't ideal.

 

[ElectricBlanketFire]

Damn it, this was finally going to be my chance to play 1-1 from SMB.

I think the point was it's a little absurd to not have the tools available to create a level as basic as 1-1 right off the bat.

 

[FStop7]

I think it's a great idea.

I mean, come on. 9 days. You can handle 9 days.

 

[A Link to the Past]

...yes. Yes there is. There is a deep problem with NeoGaf in which many people think they are the center of gaming and the largest buyers. We're not. We're not even close. If the Wii U truly only sold to core gamers, they, as with any system, would not even reach the 1 million mark sold.

This is absurd. It sold 10 million explicitly because the core was the only audience that cared.

 

[ChrisD]

Or it's just pointless, seeing as 9 days is a long enough time to be annoyed if you've been looking forward to this game, but not long enough where you'll suddenly be an amazing designer.

Perfectly said.

I'm really trying to wrap my head around this, but it's not happening.

 

[GRW810]

A very small minority of people are "freaking out."

oh my fucking god this is the most ridiculous thing i've ever seen

Literally the next post.

 

[MajorMane]

GameXplain released a video discussing the new trailer. Discussion on this particular "locking of tools" starts at about 6:12 in and lasts for awhile.

Basically, they're okay with it as long as the internal Wii U clock will work. Hopefully it does.

EDIT: Whoops, I forgot the link. Apologies: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79G_3DqzxgY

 

[quesalupa]

Nintendo never fails to confuse me.

 

[ElectricBlanketFire]

Literally the next post.

That doesn't make my post wrong. Hardly anyone is freaking out.

 

[A Link to the Past]

Literally the next post.

The timing of posts has absolutely nothing to do with whether something is a small minority or not.

 

[Justified]

Are there really people in here freaking out because they have to wait nine days for some features? Good lord.

If criticizing this is freaking out to you, I will say "Good lord" to that...

Its not the wait they most are questioning, its the practice, and the "reasoning" the supporters are giving.

Even if they argument that "they are trying ease gamers in" is true, there are much better established ways to handle it

GameXplain released a video discussing the new trailer. Discussion on this particular "locking of tools" starts at about 6:12 in and lasts for awhile.

Basically, they're okay with it as long as the internal Wii U clock will work. Hopefully it does.

I hope so to, but seems like its and internal game timer

 

[SmartWaffles]

Can anyone come up with a logically sound reason for this? It sounds like if Mojang locks crafting for new players for several days unless they "mastered" digging.

 

[Schnozberry]

Sad, but true. I think introducing content in steps is a good idea. But not like this. How about a traditional tutorial?

Because it seems they are attempting to get people into the habit of playing every day. The game will die a horrible death without an active user base creating new levels constantly. I don't know if this is the right approach or not, but I can see the intent.

 

[TheBaronOfNA]

Literally the next post.

That is the concept of minority "only a few".

 

[modsbox]

It seems to me it might be a good plan to set the Wii U clock back 10 days fairly soon, so that it will have never reached any of the days in between the 2nd and the 11th. In case the system syncs with Nintendo to detect whether or not its ever been set to a certain day to try to stop people from faking it out.

On a somewhat related note I did try to move my time zone from pacific to eastern to download Mario Kart 8 DLC at 10pm pacific the day it came out at midnight and that *did not work*. That's a bit different since a download is happening there, but it was nonetheless a bit surprising to me that it didn't.

Also worth noting that this isn't the stupidest time delay situation Nintendo has going at the moment. I'm going to give that to Yoshi's Wooly World releasing in NA _4 months later than everywhere else_ because (presumably) they wouldn't be able to have enough of the Amiibos available to meet the anticipated demand. A game, delayed because of Amiibos, is pretty sad. I'd have happily imported it because my kids are excited to play it, but of course Nintendo (again, stupidly) enforces region locking.

 

[shaowebb]

As a Splatoon player, I just want to say that had I been able to start the game with all content unlocked I wouldn't have had all these new and exciting things every other week to look forward to. Knowing there are continuing rewards of new content for sticking around has made me enjoy the game far more than I would have thought possible. A new stage comes out and its a massive party online with friends. New weapons and it becomes absolutely incredible like when we all had the same weapon in a room and inkgrenades were everywhere.

Metering out content over slightly longer than a week is fine in my eyes. If your attention span is so small you can't spend 5 minutes a day with a new game for 9 days then you may as well go back to your cel phone games and stop pretending you really look for much else.

 

[Willectro]

Ah, of course.

There just has to be something that is annoying.

Almost verbatim what I was thinking. Always a catch with Nintendo.

 

[A Link to the Past]

As a Splatoon player, I just want to say that had I been able to start the game with all content unlocked I wouldn't have had all these new and exciting things every other week to look forward to. Knowing there are continuing rewards of new content for sticking around has made me enjoy the game far more than I would have thought possible. A new stage comes out and its a massive party online with friends. New weapons and it becomes absolutely incredible like when we all had the same weapon in a room and inkgrenades were everywhere.

Metering out content over slightly longer than a week is fine in my eyes. If your attention span is so small you can't spend 5 minutes a day with a new game for 9 days then you may as well go back to your cel phone games and stop pretending you really look for much else.

So to confirm, if you want to make a certain level on day one, you have a poor attention span?