shinshoryuken
Member
So so true...its kinda obnoxious how people can crap on a fast car but give big praise on how good a certain car can handle.
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The Automotive Discussion Thread
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So so true...its kinda obnoxious how people can crap on a fast car but give big praise on how good a certain car can handle.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
There's no significant reason to believe those turns are going to make the BRZ better than a car with significantly more power under the hood. It's just junk logic and its even sillier because literally everyone can take advantage of a lot of power, but my guess is that most of the people (hell, even posting in this thread) probably have no clue how to drift around corners or do anything of the sort.
Liquidsnake
Banned
David Incorporated Esq.
Member
It's because a fast car isn't always the most fun to drive, or just uses a huge hunk of engine to make fast lap times when the car is otherwise a pig. Besides, a lot of people just love driving at the limits of the car which is something you can do with a slower but great handling car and not with something crazy fast.
Woody Invincible
Banned
Thanks for this. I was thinking about trading in my civic and s2000 to consolidate into 1 car and was looking into the BRZ.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
You sure did. The fact that some theoretical race course has some turns doesn't now mean the BRZ is going to beat a car with significantly more power. It's ludicrious.
I'd love to see these videos and reports of the BRZ overtaking the 370Z in the turns or zooming past a GT Mustang (or hell, even a V6). It's just going to break down to the mythical hot-shoe in a mythical race-prepped car that doesn't actually exist.
AlphaSnake
...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
Highly unlikely. Or you can buy a used 370Z for less than a new BRZ and supercharge that for the exact same money and have 450WHP, as opposed to a number no one knows that a BRZ can put down with a supercharger.
So much heated BR-Z discussion. To be honest my hype for it when it was announced 2 years ago was high then over time I just kept getting disappointed to the point I don't care about the car anymore.
To those who are buying it or want to enjoy it have fun, takes too much energy to hate on other cars.
To those who are buying it or want to enjoy it have fun, takes too much energy to hate on other cars.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Highly unlikely. Or you can buy a used 370Z for less than a new BRZ and supercharge that for the exact same money and have 450WHP, as opposed to a number no one knows that a BRZ can put down with a supercharger.
This is what I mean; it's just a bunch of theoretical shit based on assuming every single marketing line about the car read on some car blog is 100% true, i.e. the car handles super amazing to the point that it can overtake way more expensive cars in the turns and if you spend 7 grand destroying the value of the car and warranty, you can get some nebulous amount of power.
That front end is kind of gross.
David Incorporated Esq.
Member
I don't think anyone's making that argument, just that lightweight RWD coupes make great fun when they're set up for good handling.
Liquidsnake
Banned
Thank you for shitting on my new car.
The front end is the reason I bought into it.
Coming from a G35 to a 370z to an FR-S. I understand what some of you are saying about power. There is no substitute.
All I can add to that is Please until you test drive this car, don't knock it. The Drive I had was unlike anything I have ever experienced. So much so that I decided to dump the 370 that day.
Narpas Sword0
Member
Since when is the mustang a pig? Didn't the GT match the M3 in car and drivers performance test?
shinshoryuken
Member
alot of these people won't even drive to the limits of the car unless they are on the track.
Fast/heavy car doesn't mean its boring and can't handle well, same as a slow/light car does not equal fun car. Most people don't even know how to drift or do any proper cornering technique to begin with.
Yes. A kit should be in the $3000-5000 range. Figure on another $2000 for labour MAYBE, unless you can do it yourself without dying.
The point is that you can have a better car for less money, or that the lack of horsepower isn't a roadblock to anything.
MiniBossBattle
Member
Torque is addictive and amazing but fun can be had at tight corners and within the speed limit. The biggest smile on my face was in a lotus super 7, in and around Elkart Racway. The M3 was faster around the track but not nearly as fun to drive.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
There isn't anything to support that other than just buying into vague hype and vague monetary figures you probably just made up.
Nobody is disagreeing with that, but the way the argument is being represented is as if Alpha's 370z is some sort of ungodly boat with too big of an engine that would be oh-so-lame around a racetrack. Or my Speed6 for that matter.
And I vehemently disagree.
For example, the Z weighs 3245lbs... Ditto for cars like the STi 5-door coming in at 3300lbs. That's hardly obscene and I doubt anyone would scoff at those cars as being "not-fun" to drive around a track.
The Lotus' Power:Weight ratio is amazing and not even comparable to a BRZ.
David Incorporated Esq.
Member
You're missing what I'm saying entirely. I'm saying in that a fast car it's a lot more difficult and dangerous to push the car. An amateur can push a slower, more responsive car to the limit a lot more easily and safely and have more fun.
I've had slow, fun handling cars and fast, great handling cars and when I was on a winding back road the slow car was as much or fun because it was all go all the time. In the fast car I spent half the time holding back on the throttle and the other half riding the brakes.
In the slow car maybe I'd get up to 65 or 70 before the tight switch-back, in the fast car I'd be doing 110 and slamming the brakes in a panic, realizing how fucking crazy I was being.
David Incorporated Esq.
Member
If people are making that argument in that way then they're misleading themselves. All the same, I think other people are selling short the idea that you can have a ton of fun in a car that's properly set up but not nearly as powerful as some others.
Personally I think I might rather have a 370 since I like having power on tap in case of emergency, but then again I haven't driven one nor have I driven the BRZ/FR-S. If there was a noticeable difference in steering feel and response favoring the BRZ I'd probably go that way, as I definitely prefer a responsive chassis to extra power.
Edit: Multi-quoting is for punks.
I'm not shitting on it, just saying I'm not a fan of the front end.
Cool car though, you're gonna enjoy the shit out of it.
Ah, the James May rule. Big fan of that. Here's to envelopes that you can push!
It's one reason I decided to STi an older GC than just buy a newer, heavier Impreza and just add more powerrrrrr.
It's not crapping on 'fast' cars, it's defending low-power agile cars. I should note that it's far easier to just add power to a car than it is to make a car lighter and better handling. (or better looking)
Just comparing new to new. But seriously, wtf are you going to do with 450hp except bro it up on the road in a straight line for no more than seconds at a time so you don't get pulled over or die? I suppose you could go to the strip and try to down some Vipers or something?
A car's performance is not just about straight line power. It's about balance - acceleration, braking, turning. There's more fun in lateral movement than forward.
shinshoryuken
Member
lotus super 7 is way way different than a M3..its a dayam track car.
I think the e92 M3 is a really fun car even though its heavy.
The labour on my complete STi drivetrain swap is going to be $4000-6000 bucks, there's no way that just bolting on a supercharger and tune is going to be half of that.
As to kit prices, look em up if you want. Entire new engines can go for the $4000-5000 range, a simple kit with a blower, piping, belts, etc won't be that much.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
At the point at which you're attaching 7,000 dollars in aftermarket parts to your car, it's not really a new car, so that's a pointless comparison.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
If that's his point, I don't get it - AS was saying a used 370 is already cheaper than a new BRZ. Guy's argument is just piling a lot of inferences about the car's abilities on top of inferences about what theoretically could be done to the car to make it competitive.
Woody Invincible
Banned
If there is any knowledge that I've gained over the last decade of modding my cars, it is to never mod a car again. I consider myself lucky that I was able to reverse what I had done to my S2000, before I totally wrecked it.
shinshoryuken
Member
dude, you watch too much initial D or something...seem like your quoting the show..
an amateur is an amateur. There not going to drive the car to the limit more easily and safely, just because its slower and more responsive. Pushing a car regardless of weight and power is dangerous no matter what.
can you give an example?
what are some slow more responsive car that you are talking about?
David Incorporated Esq.
Member
Maybe more responsive wasn't the right word, but responsive. I had a 924S that was an absolute blast on tight, twisty roads. I had a 911 that, on the same roads, was at times terrifying.
And are you kidding me saying that an amateur won't be able to push a slow car to the limit more easily than a high powered car? Any driving enthusiast hopping behind the wheel of a Miata will feel pretty confident pushing that car to 9/10, throw them into even a Mustang GT and see what happens.
I've never seen Initial D but I can guess what you're getting at and boy howdy do you not get it.
Fallout-NL
Member
Yeah, but pushing an old school rwd 911 still requires more skill and is more dangerous than pushing a Fiat Panda.
Though a forgiving RWD car will obviously be more fun than said Panda (and the 911 is not, forgiving.).
shinshoryuken
Member
I guess fun is subjective...
Power should never overthrow suspension and handling on a vehicle.
David Incorporated Esq.
Member
It was a 996 so the "haha you're dead" oversteer wasn't too prevalent it's just that it had too much power to really open it up without immediately a) breaking the law and b) putting yourself at serious risk.
It does look pretty awful, like most Toyota/Scion. The Subaru version is more squared off and looks MUCH better.
shinshoryuken
Member
Why does everyone think no power = equals awesome suspension and handling.
there are plenty of cars that has both power and handling!
David Incorporated Esq.
Member
Man, the first rule of car threads is that you don't shit on a brand new car that somebody bought. C'mon.
This was put to the test on something awful when somebody bought a Nissan Cube. But damnit they at least tried.
Yes, but I though the conversation was revolving around cars in a certain price range before modifications.
Have the mustangs of the world really stepped up to the plate and fixed their shitty mush suspensions from factory?
Personally I prefer the BRZ front, but I gotta say, that real life photo you posted makes the front look much better than what I've seen in some press photos.
Congrats on the new car! I'm so jealous
Fallout-NL
Member
Yeah, I feel ya. Probably same reason why I switched from a Ducati 998 (4valve insanity) to a Ducati Monster 1100 (2valve).
(Can't wait till I have the money to get similar performance from a car. That's why I haven't bothered yet.)
You laugh, but there's some truth to that. First car I drove (without an instructor present) was my mom's Fiat Panda (the old model). Learned all about understeer in that car. It was excellent fun.
Greatest car I have ever driven was my dad's 2005 Audi A6 2.4V6. FWD as well, but my god, that thing went like a bat out of hell. You could steer that thing around roundabouts using nothing but the throttle (doing a weird kind of understeer drift). It was awesome, loved every second of it.
I was forced to drive a Skoda Fabia when I was in Scotland (wish I'd taken the TTS instead!), and I can tell you that while not 'fun', it was certainly exciting to drive in a way that more capable cars I'm used to generally aren't!
I just watched AutoGuide's test drive of the Cadillac XTS. I'm starting to really like this car. I'm not entirely sold on the exterior. It looks nice enough, but I'm reminded of a big Malibu with an enormous grille and fins. The interior, on the other hand, is wonderful. I already like the CTS's interior, but they really stepped it up here. Not to mention, it's a big Caddy that actually handles thanks to the magnetic ride control. The dash and instrument technology looks cool, but hopefully they can improve the responsiveness of the system. Fortunately that's an area that is easily improved, as it would be pretty much unacceptable if they released it as shown.
I can't afford a new one, and I don't plan on being in the market for a new vehicle for several years. But I would definitely consider picking up a used one down the road.
I can't afford a new one, and I don't plan on being in the market for a new vehicle for several years. But I would definitely consider picking up a used one down the road.
Man, that guy's delivery is WAY off. Horrible.
Shortt Sirket
Member
I know it is not for everyone, but I think the Liberty Walk F40 is just incredible.
http://www.speedhunters.com/2012/05/an-afternoon-with-a-legend/
http://www.speedhunters.com/2012/05/an-afternoon-with-a-legend/
AlphaSnake
...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
450WHP and killing yourself? Hahaha, damn...you'd have to be a moron to kill yourself behind a car doing reckless shit. And if you're a moron, you'll kill yourself with 150HP, as well. Why do people assume that just because a car has a lot of power that someone will kill themselves in it? I've driven TONS of cars with more power than that - just recently a 500WHP Supercharged 2008 Carrera 4S my shop built. A GT-R. An Aston Martin. My brother's M6 and his V10 R8. Come on, man. It's the driver behind the wheel, not the car.
You know what power is to me? Safety. Being able to quickly avoid an asshole on the street, or someone who is about to T-bone you as he's about to run a stop sign, or safely merge on a highway with a very short entrance ramp (hello NYC). Moreover, I find slower cars more dangerous to drive fast or attempt to drive fast. A lot of people who want take a car up to some speed get into accidents because it takes too damn long for some of these cars to reach those speeds.
Let's say someone wants to do a quick sprint from 60-100 on an empty highway just for the hell of it and then slow it back down to 60. A normal car will take 15 seconds to make that sprint; the guy starts accelerating, he's breaking the speed limit for 15 seconds. A sports car with 450HP will take all of...3 seconds. That's 12 seconds of time that person will NOT be driving at 70, 80, and 90 MPH. He's broken the speed limit for 3 seconds and is on the brakes back at 60.
It may sound absolutely odd, but it makes perfect sense if the car is behind the wheels of someone with half a brain. That's just my train of thought, though.
You know what power is to me? Safety. Being able to quickly avoid an asshole on the street, or someone who is about to T-bone you as he's about to run a stop sign, or safely merge on a highway with a very short entrance ramp (hello NYC). Moreover, I find slower cars more dangerous to drive fast or attempt to drive fast. A lot of people who want take a car up to some speed get into accidents because it takes too damn long for some of these cars to reach those speeds.
Let's say someone wants to do a quick sprint from 60-100 on an empty highway just for the hell of it and then slow it back down to 60. A normal car will take 15 seconds to make that sprint; the guy starts accelerating, he's breaking the speed limit for 15 seconds. A sports car with 450HP will take all of...3 seconds. That's 12 seconds of time that person will NOT be driving at 70, 80, and 90 MPH. He's broken the speed limit for 3 seconds and is on the brakes back at 60.
It may sound absolutely odd, but it makes perfect sense if the car is behind the wheels of someone with half a brain. That's just my train of thought, though.
He is Canadian. I don't know if that has anything to do with it but as soon as I heard the word layoot instead of layout i knew.
Looks like a nice big ass car.
edit: holy crap that touch screen is laggy
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