OP:
"Johan Galtung, a Nobel Peace Prize-nominated sociologist who predicted the collapse of the Soviet Union, warned that US global power will collapse under the Donald Trump administration."
Possibly, decline, but no way collapse.
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US Power Will Decline Under Trump, Says Sociologist Who Predicted Soviet Collapse
- Thread starter kame-sennin
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OP:
"Johan Galtung, a Nobel Peace Prize-nominated sociologist who predicted the collapse of the Soviet Union, warned that US global power will collapse under the Donald Trump administration."
Possibly, decline, but no way collapse.
Dude.
7DollarHagane
Banned
Yep, this article is totally cherry picking the guy's writing to fit people's biggest fears about Trump, to play on their emotions and get attention.
If people think the US is anything like the Soviet Union in the 70s they need to pick up a history book.
Besides that I don't think Trump will be as interventionist as Obama was. I think just being a civilian that has little to no experience with use of lethal force would result in a different view of military action. That is assuming he is at all empathetic with other human beings.
Genghis Khan
Member
Not really surprising to hear predictions like this. But at the same time, I don't really care that he predicted the collapse of the Soivets; the world is a lot different and changes much quicker now compared to back then. This shit is unpredictable.
Dude Abides
Banned
As opposed to Obama's decades in the Marines?
Trump generally has no interest in the world except to the extent he can enrich himself, but both he and his base are really interested in killin' some Moos-lems.
dragonelite
Member
I think I have heard my anti EU dad talk about the EU dying for 8 years or so.
eBay Huckster
Member
making a pretty big assumption there
The One and Done
Member
What a twist!
CosmicGroinPull
Member
China: Just in time
Trump will be just as interventionist as the Republicans who surround him want him to be. Bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran!
Well be lucky if we get off with Sgt. Obama levels of interventionism.
As far as the OP goes, I think shit is about to get reaaaallll raw here domestically. Not sure how it'll translate internationally though. I'm also afraid that the population is too placated to care.
PdotMichael
Banned
EU is in a better position because of the flexibility to move between different superpowers.
With the end of TTIP and China overtaking the USA as single largest trading partner in the near future. There is already a shift - the Ukraine crisis also kind of show that EU doesn't really like the idea of playing the forward post of the USA.
With the end of TTIP and China overtaking the USA as single largest trading partner in the near future. There is already a shift - the Ukraine crisis also kind of show that EU doesn't really like the idea of playing the forward post of the USA.
Plus this guy probably didn't factor in the unknowable of tech and social media exploding into the mix. Giving so many idiots and nihilists the ability to accelerate the dumbing down of the entire news cycle and removing basics like facts from the arguments...
At it's current rate I don't think this guy will be far off. America is going to implode, even just socially, nevermind economically, and as climate hits harder and quicker as well... Welcome to our new overlords, China!
China is fucked up in many respects of course, but honestly, the US seems less and less far behind it, the amount of human rights abuses via police and military, and the intelligence spying on it's citizens and so on. The US is so blatantly corrupt and operated by and for the ones with wealth and power... whether it be by fascism or some other means there WILL be a reaction, and we're finally seeing it. Sadly it'll be a revolution of the despicable right, rather than one of the left (the left needs to grow a pair and properly defend the things we believe in!).
At it's current rate I don't think this guy will be far off. America is going to implode, even just socially, nevermind economically, and as climate hits harder and quicker as well... Welcome to our new overlords, China!
China is fucked up in many respects of course, but honestly, the US seems less and less far behind it, the amount of human rights abuses via police and military, and the intelligence spying on it's citizens and so on. The US is so blatantly corrupt and operated by and for the ones with wealth and power... whether it be by fascism or some other means there WILL be a reaction, and we're finally seeing it. Sadly it'll be a revolution of the despicable right, rather than one of the left (the left needs to grow a pair and properly defend the things we believe in!).
under Russian, Chinese and Canadian control?
This is silly.
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
Great. More Russian propaganda disguised as analysis. America is not a cuckold nation, just has a cuckold Pres-Elect.
Kuro Madoushi
Unconfirmed Member
I never thought it would be possible for me to actual see the decline of the States if it does happen. I can only add that all great empires fall and nothing lasts forever, but I did think the US with its unprecedented cultural, scientific, and technological lead on a global scale that it wouldn't happen for much much longer.
When you're as big as America, the only enemy you have is yourself. The news and government focused a lot about enemies on foreign soil and terrorists that it seems to have missed the internal problems. Police brutality, gun violence, drug violence, infrastructure, military spending (with an alarming lack of support for soldiers after leaving), class warfare, the environment, and the biggest for me is the income gap, is reported but absolutely nothing is done about it.
I really don't think these issues are taken seriously enough, and it may well prove their undoing since it isnt going to be a war with another nation that does it.
When you're as big as America, the only enemy you have is yourself. The news and government focused a lot about enemies on foreign soil and terrorists that it seems to have missed the internal problems. Police brutality, gun violence, drug violence, infrastructure, military spending (with an alarming lack of support for soldiers after leaving), class warfare, the environment, and the biggest for me is the income gap, is reported but absolutely nothing is done about it.
I really don't think these issues are taken seriously enough, and it may well prove their undoing since it isnt going to be a war with another nation that does it.
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
1st of all Trump has shown he is incapable of empathy.
2nd his entire cabinet is one that is very aggressive toward Iran. He has pledged to sink Iranian boats that taunt US warships and wants to break the Iran deal. He also has no clue on how the military operates shown by his stupidity about Mosul and "sneak attacks." Then there is the fact he wants to wholesale increase the military ranks like the Marines by 50%. Put the shit together and I guarantee we are headed to another ground war in his term.
It's already happening without Trump and has been these last years.
Just look at Russia can just manipulate US elections and get away with it. Same with Ukraine, Obama just let Putin do what he wants.
Syria is also a prime example with Obamas famous red line.
It's gonna take a even larger hit if Trump really goes through with his pay or NATO will breakup approach. Don't think US Generals would be happy with loosing bases all over europe (especially Rammstein which seems to be central to US supply and drone warfare in the middle east/africa).
Just look at Russia can just manipulate US elections and get away with it. Same with Ukraine, Obama just let Putin do what he wants.
Syria is also a prime example with Obamas famous red line.
It's gonna take a even larger hit if Trump really goes through with his pay or NATO will breakup approach. Don't think US Generals would be happy with loosing bases all over europe (especially Rammstein which seems to be central to US supply and drone warfare in the middle east/africa).
andythinkpad
Member
The turning point that marks the decline of US influence in East Asia is the election of Duterte IMO.
The turning point in Europe is Brexit. Both happened slightly before Trump.
The turning point in Middle East hasn't happened yet, we are just waiting for the hammer to drop.
The turning point in Africa happened a few years ago because the West just can't provide the kind of products and infrastructure building China can provide.
The turning point in Europe is Brexit. Both happened slightly before Trump.
The turning point in Middle East hasn't happened yet, we are just waiting for the hammer to drop.
The turning point in Africa happened a few years ago because the West just can't provide the kind of products and infrastructure building China can provide.
Guileless
Temp Banned for Remedial Purposes
I did a search and found some previous threads:
2008: soviet collapse vs. us collapse. who was in better shape? - quotes a Russian guy whose theory was that the USSR was in better shape to deal with collapse than the US in 2008
2008: Russian professor: America 'Disintegrates' in 2010 - this is the one with the amusing map where the SEC Championship Game is played in the Estadio Azteca. I remember seeing this map a lot in 2008.
2009: America to collapse?? - quotes a guy named Peter Schiff who predicted the 2008 financial crisis
2012: Speculation comparing impending US collapse to Soviet collapse - quotes a Russian guy
There were other threads about economic collapse I found in 2008 and 2009 that were not only limited to the US, which is understandable. Pre-NeoGaf, we had almost monthly threads about peak oil as different members discovered the theory, which always came with a prediction of imminent societal collapse and a return to 1800s-style local bartering.
2008: soviet collapse vs. us collapse. who was in better shape? - quotes a Russian guy whose theory was that the USSR was in better shape to deal with collapse than the US in 2008
2008: Russian professor: America 'Disintegrates' in 2010 - this is the one with the amusing map where the SEC Championship Game is played in the Estadio Azteca. I remember seeing this map a lot in 2008.
2009: America to collapse?? - quotes a guy named Peter Schiff who predicted the 2008 financial crisis
2012: Speculation comparing impending US collapse to Soviet collapse - quotes a Russian guy
There were other threads about economic collapse I found in 2008 and 2009 that were not only limited to the US, which is understandable. Pre-NeoGaf, we had almost monthly threads about peak oil as different members discovered the theory, which always came with a prediction of imminent societal collapse and a return to 1800s-style local bartering.
jackissocool
Member
Is this bad? The United States is an enormous force of impoverishment and death on the global scale. I want our power to decline because our power has been devastating.
Ordinaryundone
Member
It's also the world's largest source of stability, charity, relief aid, and military support. But hey, this thread is about pie in the sky dreams where Canada annexes South Dakota and China surpasses U.S. influence based on ENVIRONMENTALISM of all things. Based on the words of a sociologist whose been "predicting" American decline since the 70s. ProTip: You aren't an oracle if you say it's going to happen every year.
*evil chuckle*
Darth Syrupus(Harper): "Our plan to expand our great Canadian empire is going smoothly, just as I've predicted, muhahaha"
Darth Maple(Trudeau): *Mechanical breathing*...... "Yes, my Master" *Mechanical breathing*
Guileless
Temp Banned for Remedial Purposes
When people are complaining about how dumb Trump supporters are for cheering him on as he dismantles NATO, remember posts like this.
The alternatives will be just as bad or worse if given the opportunity. The decline of the empire only works if a progressive force takes its place.
CitizenVectron
Member
Secession made sense when a block of states all believed (generally) a different thing than a block of other states. But how do you secede when it's cities vs rural areas? Georgia might be a red state, but Atlanta votes Democratic. California votes Democratic, but the interior rural areas and much of the south votes Republican.
There simply isn't a way to split a country up in a situation like this. Realistically government just becomes more and more difficult. Eventually the power tips in favour of the cities (headed in that direction for decades), but even then it's 55% imposing their will on 45% (assuming that demographics continue the way they are).
There is no realistic solution to fix the United States as it slowly splits into two, separate national cultures that are divided by urban/rural, not states.
CitizenVectron
Member
This may sound cold, but the death caused by the Iraq War and the other more minor conflicts (as unfortunate as they are, Afghanistan and Libya are minor conflicts on the global scale) are nothing weighed against the global prosperity and stability provided by US hegemony over the last 30-60 years.
Reagan's BR
Banned
Yeah let's blame all of the worlds problems on the US. Let's pretend like the US never rose to be a world power in the 20th century. The Nazis or the USSR would be residing over the world and redefining your narrow definition of death and impoverishment.
Go read a history book.
Vigilant Walrus
Member
That's the oxymoron:
We are angry at American Imperialism, but at the same time, we are scared of the prospect of Americans withdrawing their bases around the world. Doing so leaves them open to Russian and Chinese influences, and they are in our opinion quantifiable worse.
Had you asked me just a few years ago if the EU needed a stranding army I would have said no, but in the light of recent events I do not think that EU can continue without one.
It needs a sweeping re-distribution of protocols on every member state that would allow for any member nations armies to be able to work under the command of another. If Poland is attacked or needs peacekeeping forces, how are French and Portuguese soldiers going to take commands from a polish commander?
Due to the differences in armies not to mention languages, the EU needs a massive reconstruction to be able to work as an effective fighting force.
The long peace is possible because anyone who dares attacking the other side have assured mutual self destruction. The domino effects created a limbo where none of the larger powers dare attacking each other because they realize the consequences. This is true until someone truly mad gets in power who doesn't care about the consequences.
EU and Russia are opposites. EU has the wealth, while Russia has a weak economy but has one of the best fighting forces in the world plus the second largest amount of nukes in the world. Russia could easily use smaller tactical "mini nukes". They have a even worse half-life than regular nukes, but their area of devastation is much smaller and thus; the idea of using them makes a lot more sense because damage is controlled. With these smaller razor precision style bombs you could take out a arms factory. It's a lot easier to sell as a non-declaration of war.
It's another oxymoron to the idea. It doesn't make any sense than making smaller bombs would increase the risk of using them, but ironically they do.
And this is not speculation either; This rhetoric of more limited / precise use of force has in previous conflicts proved to be a form of carte blanch to go far and beyond what would have been considered acceptable with larger bombs. In both WW2 and Vietnam they oversold how precise bombers where.
Watch this Malcom Gladwell talk where he talks about Norden bombsights: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpiZTvlWx2g
So in my mind unless Europe becomes a strong force really soon, Russia might actually try more shit like with Crimea in other eastern European block countries who can quickly become destabilized with russian propaganda, russian rebels, assassination attempts against officials, while Putin and his administration denies and effectively shifts focus. If the US bases are gone it leaves Putin open to taking it. He himself have said he wants to restore the soviet union.
And in this economic recession, we've hit a point in time where enough time has passed without a major war, that enough people have been born and removed from understanding the horrors of what it meant, sort of like how WW1 came after long period of peace, and that anxiety that was born from the industrial revolution which shook europe and disinfranchised millions, the winds start blowing for extreme ideas, radical changes, revolutions and usurping the structures because the way things are going doesn't work for them.
Last month a assassination attempt was halted on the pro-western PM of Montenegro; http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-37890683
In 2012 when Romney talked about being afraid of Russia it sounded like Tom Clancy, but it is becoming terrifying as anti-western propaganda ignites Russia.
At the same time there also is a lot of Russiaphobia in the west and that is bad as well because many people in Russia are not being heard. Russian has a independent media that is in wars with the national outlets: http://www.stopfake.org/en/tag/anti-western-narrative/
Damerman
Member
Guess who is filling that void after the us gave up on tpp...
Damerman
Member
Terrifying.
NobleXenon
Member
It's a silly map for sure. It's more likely that Washington, Oregon, California, Nevada, and even Arizona form to be one country, lmao.
City clusters are definitely the future though. Here in Nevada, we want unlimited speed limits and autonomous driving between cities, all of the rural areas in between are screwed.
PdotMichael
Banned
Bad news about that mate.
AngmarsKing701
Member
Not just divided by urban/rural but by a stiff economic divide. The ruralites want what the urbanites are achieving. The only real way to do that is to move further left, toward socialism. Unfortunately, the ruralites are mostly ignorant of that, or are being fed by the right that the tides of time and culture can be shifted back by 50 years to protect them from the horrible fates of socialism (that Commie Bernie!).
So for the next four years the MAJORITY of Americans, who wanted to continue to progress toward a more inclusively profitable future for everyone, need to deal with the fact that the ignorant MINORITY won the fucking election and deal with a bunch of conservative nutjobs trying to drag us back in time.
Ah shit, yeah, my bad.
Baron von Loathsome
Member
Alaska can come, too.
Not that I disagree with you, but it would be helpful to not proliferate the "cuck" thing.
Its just hyperbole People have been saying stuff for years the reality is the EU is no closer or further from its death than it ever has been. Brexit seems to be or will be a much bigger blow to the UK than it will be to the EU. The EU has many problems but chances of them getting resolved are much higher than that the EU will collapse.
Tye The Czar
Member
I am okay with an Empire of nice.
-Plasma Reus-
Service guarantees member status
Lmao! Where are you getting this breh.
John Rabbit
Banned
Lol that AZ would go to China and not Mexico (or be associated with California in any way). Come on now.
TheOctodad
Member
As a Minnesotan I'd love to be adopted by Canada. We're basically Canadians already we just don't get the perks
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