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Why FF7 remake would probably not work.
- Thread starter chickdigger802
- Start date
chickdigger802
Banned
hmmm those 'mixes' weren't bad now I think about it. And the new stuff they did for FF4 ds was pretty well done...
Think negative think positive... Too much thinking!
Unknown One
Member
I would say no shit from the spin offs at all!
Everything original, no added scenes or retcons like FF:CC stuff. I agree no fucking Genesis. I don't want Zack other then the original scenes. I don't want any added dialogue to those as well. I want it sticking true to the original adaption.
But this is SE for crying out loud. They will retcon stuff in like Genesis and Zack. They will probably retcon FF:AC Cloud onto the original Cloud as well.
People completely missing the point here. The analysis of the Cloud art is important but not everything, and it points to the greater issue at hand - Square has completely lost touch with what made people like their games in the first place. If they were to remake FFVII, I wouldn't trust SE to retain the charm, the nuances, or the metered humor.
The second cloud drawing - the slumped, miserable posture, everything about it is testament to the idea that Square is just out of touch.
The second cloud drawing - the slumped, miserable posture, everything about it is testament to the idea that Square is just out of touch.
My arguement is that this is bullshit.
Aside from Toryiama's stuff and XIV Square Enix games are still meet well. TWEWY while not selling that great has a cult following now, even Last Remnant has a fanbase.
All this particalur article did is ignore very large chuncks of content in Final Fantasy VII, it's add on material as well as Sqaure as a whole.
To Far Away Times
Member
OP hit all the reasons why there should never be a FFVII remake. It would be like remaking Sonic 1 with better graphics and replacing Sonic with Shadow. Nothing of value would be gained. And the original would be desecrated.
That's not even true to T-Frog's opinion of the series though. He even liked Crisis Core.
chickdigger802
Banned
Now to think of recent FF happy male leads.
YAY!
BTW: how is the time travel dude in FF13-2? He looks like a KH character... but how's his character?
YAY!
BTW: how is the time travel dude in FF13-2? He looks like a KH character... but how's his character?
Exactly. A lot of the charm that FF7 has is because they could get away with certain things due to the... less than realistic art style. Notice that subsequent games, including the "throwback" FF9, considerably toned down the wackiness (9 did try, but Steiner and Quina can only do so much). While the more serious and dramatic elements, such as the look and feel of Midgar, would translate well into HD, so much else would not. Of all the pre-PS2 FF's, 7 is the hardest one to update. 8 would probably be the easiest (and in a perfect world they would leave all the glorious junction abuse intact).
He liked Crisis Core and it's story far more then VII if I remember right.
Jeremy has never really been one to be on the postive side off FF VII or Cloud in the first place. Even back on Retronauts and alot of his JRPG articles he tries to focus on things other then VII.
There is nothing wrong with this, but of all them men to try and write an article about this issue he is in the worst place to do it.
GuitarAtomik
Member
The more I think about it, the more I don't think it would make back the money it would cost to redo it. Keep in mind FF7 was the first polygonal FF during the early days of 3D and up-resing it would look horrible. That means they have to remake every asset from scratch up to or close to today's standards assuming they want to release it on the consoles (handhelds would be a different matter and way more feasible). When you're talking about other genres this isn't necessarily an insurmountable goal but a JRPG? That's a lot of fucking content.
I know people like to think that everyone and their mother would go out and purchase it day one but honestly, I would probably just be like "oh that's neat", look up my favorite scenes on youtube, and be done with it. I have a feeling I'm in the majority on that one. Not that it won't sell decently or even well, but enough to justify the budget? I don't think so.
I know people like to think that everyone and their mother would go out and purchase it day one but honestly, I would probably just be like "oh that's neat", look up my favorite scenes on youtube, and be done with it. I have a feeling I'm in the majority on that one. Not that it won't sell decently or even well, but enough to justify the budget? I don't think so.
Yup.
Also, the writer of this article doesn't seem to be aware that Cloud had a reason to be all mopey in Advent Children, and it was pretty much the main plot...namely Geostigma, and how it preys on people that have lost hope, or something to that effect. The novels really flesh this out well.
As for the cocky, wise cracking Cloud, he disappears even within FF7 itself, after he learns of his true self. He's not acting like that by the end of the game. Did this 1up guy not even finish FF7 or what?
He's certainly more personable than anyone in XIII. I quite liked him, unfortunately Serah is so irritating it's hard to separate them.
Thing is Jeremy isn't stupid.
If anything he is knowing playing up both sides here. As it stands Cloud is never 100 percent badass nor is he always Emo.
However it is very common now adays to see people list Cloud as an Emo/whiny character and I have to believe that Jeremy is using that here.
Regardless of his overall opinion Jeremy has played these games and given how he takes pride in his critque he knows the stories as well.
Dark Octave
Banned
His son? What did I miss? That was just a kid he picked up and befriended in AC.
chickdigger802
Banned
Fanfiction extend universe... everything is converging!
No it's explained in quite a bit of detail about how Denzel is considered by both Tifa and Cloud to be his adoptive son.
When they first find Denzel he and Cloud grow very attached, to the point Cloud travels all over Gaia trying to a cure to help Denzel up until he himself contracts Geostigma and it's because of his failure to help Denzel and then himself that he pushes himself into chruch because he feels like he failed his family and it brings up the feelings of losing both Aerith and Zack.
Came A Way to a Smile Case Tifa and mentioned a bit in Barrets as well as Denzel's.
Dark Octave
Banned
Ah. This is all explained in AC? I think I remember Tifa mentioning family (been a while) but I figured she meant close friends = family, not kid and wife.
A bit?
It's mostly explained in the novels that came out at the same time as Advent Children.
It explained how Cloud transitioned from how we see him at the end of VII to how he is at the start of Advent Children.
ACC has a bit of this with Cloud finding Denzel at his bike. They even bring up how Cloud was confident and how he gets a bike and slowly builds and upgrades Fenrir and how Denzel would sit out and talk with hiim while working on the bike.
Honestly it would have been the better thing to animate then all the the stuff with Reno/Rude and Rufus because it showed Cloud's character development and why he is the way he is instead of just shoving in as many characters as they could.
IrishNinja
Member
he's got some points. honestly, Crisis Core gave me a more interesting protagonist anyway (though Genesis and his bad poetry was horrid).
also, VIII was garbage; remaking garbage would be a bigger waste of $ than another failed MMO. these are facts.
also, VIII was garbage; remaking garbage would be a bigger waste of $ than another failed MMO. these are facts.
Zack while enjoyable is the single most cliche thing to come out of Square in a long damn time.
He is elements of Cloud/Sephiroth mixed with the very bored Shonen Hero archtype.
I can get someone liking Zack more but saying he is more interesting is just rediculous.
Box of Bunnies
Banned
Not if they drop all the SeeD/Sorceress stuff and remake it with the focus on Triple Triad. Then it'd be the best game in the series.
Gotta read them novels, brah. They are great reads, especially RedXIII's and Shinra's.
Dark Octave
Banned
Yeah that would have been better. So many gaps that could have been filled in AC. I had no idea there were novels.
They came combined in the DVD Limited addition with some post cards.
They eventually animated one of them with ACC's release and then added part of it in CG to ACC.
I don't know if we got all of them. I do know that we got the stories involving why Cloud is who he is now, where Cid got the air ship and why Cloud and Tifa are playing adoptive mother and father to both Denzel and Marlene.
Box of Bunnies
Banned
Like, if Squall was part of the newest graduating class of the Triple Triad Academy and it was his duty to travel the world playing card games. So it'd be Yu-Gi-Oh, but good.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Now to think of recent FF happy male leads.
YAY!
BTW: how is the time travel dude in FF13-2? He looks like a KH character... but how's his character?
Your post makes me realize that what T-frog wants, a happy-go-lucky hero, would probably have its major haters too. It's not the 16-bit/32-bit era anymore, where such characters would be taken as inoffensive, uncomplicated little cartoon avatars
While we all want a better FF game, as far as design/art decisions go, a lot of it is a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation...
We didn't get all of them, but they have all been fan translated. Not sure if I can post a link or whatever, but they are very easy to find.
You guys are acting like they HAD to have the dopey cancer/geostigma subplot and thus he HAD to be mopey in Advent Children. They could have had everyone living in peace and THEN everything turns to shit and there's conflict. Let us SEE why Cloud gets put in that emotional state rather than having a precocious child TELL us all about it in a prologue.
AC was Square not knowing what made FF VII successful in the first place which is summed up in that second illustration. They were already making games with mopey, humorless windbags, so they took that ball and ran with it in AC. Case in point: the title of the prologue! You'd think it would be something fun, something adventurous, something that prepares you for the grand movie to come. Instead we get: "On the Way to a Smile"
lol wut
Anyway, I'm not sure if a FF VII is even possible since someone still has to tell Square that disappearing up your own self-important asshole isn't profitable. I'm not sure Square can even afford to make FF VII anymore.
AC was Square not knowing what made FF VII successful in the first place which is summed up in that second illustration. They were already making games with mopey, humorless windbags, so they took that ball and ran with it in AC. Case in point: the title of the prologue! You'd think it would be something fun, something adventurous, something that prepares you for the grand movie to come. Instead we get: "On the Way to a Smile"
lol wut
Anyway, I'm not sure if a FF VII is even possible since someone still has to tell Square that disappearing up your own self-important asshole isn't profitable. I'm not sure Square can even afford to make FF VII anymore.
That looks pretty damn good if you ask me brah.
Awww, that's some cute shit.
Unknown One
Member
This is the exact reason why I dislike the Zack character.
Actually this couldn't be more wrong.
Final Fantasy X/X-2, and more importantly Kingdom Hearts and Kingdom Hearts 2 came before Advent Children and these are both games with very postive themes, of friendship, love and other bullshit of that nature.
They tried something new, and sadly they tried to do something in both a format that was very limited in time and decided that they needed to bring Sephiroth back because Cloud and Sephiroth are two of the biggest reasons why VII was so popular.
As it stands not everything worked, but your reasons behind it isn't even remotely founded in reality.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Who really gives a shit about spinoff novels etc. That's some stuff they make up later, in order to pretend like their collection of CG fight scene tech demos (Advent Children) has an actual motivation besides looking cool.
Here's why Cloud is mopey in AC: Because it's all part of Nomura's emo-chic vision to have brooding, stone faced anime heroes dressed in all-black leather.
Everything about "Cloud's sad about Geostigma", etc, is something they made up later on to justify a very shallow aesthetic, nothing more. Hell, the first version of the movie barely even explained one bit of the story. They obviously didn't consider it a priority. It was massaged into something semi-coherant over the next few years, mainly so they could sell a blu-ray + merch all over again.
It shipped the same time as Advent Children.
Granted it was added after the demo's, but so was all story elements including Cloud being mopey. So it wasn't like Cloud was Emo first and then Geostigma was created to give it a reason.
They added a story to a bunch of fight scenes and in it Cloud was depressed.
I don't see how there is anything wrong with that aside from the fact that they chose to animate the wrong parts of the story.
pelicansurf
Needs a Holiday on Gallifrey
Make it for the Vita!
So your problem is not that he is acting emo, but that they should have showed the reasons for it outright instead of giving flashbacks and covering it in novels etc? It seems like you have a completely different issue than the 1UP guy. This is an entirely different can of worms to address.
I think the way they did it is creative and unusual and helps give some development to the new character Denzel, so I think it was a fine storytelling decision. I don't see any reason why storytelling needs to be as cookie-cutter as per your suggestion.
HomerSimpson-Man
Member
I don't trust Square Enix anymore to do such a remake. It probably lose at lot of the charm and humor that Squaresoft did back in the day. Though I can imagine it would be pretty as anything.
chickdigger802
Banned
spinoff novels... for a jrpg?
Isn't that kinda... redundant?
speaking of which... is the whole ff7 celebration thingy finished?
Isn't that kinda... redundant?
speaking of which... is the whole ff7 celebration thingy finished?
IrishNinja
Member
did you stay through to the ending? i was more interested in Zack's efforts to help with that flower cart than i ever was about cloud's clone identity thing.
OP kinda points to it, but Cloud was interesting when the game started because he was an asshole that didn't seem to care for anyone but him, and at the time, that was kinda different for a JRPG protagonist. he shed that (though not as quickly as Squall did, i guess). Zack's story closed strong, Cloud's just meandered.
hahaha...i can't argue with this logic, i'd play that.
Final Fantasy VIII and Dissidia (also would have to ignore that Squall is off balanced by almos the whole damn cast) wheren't released any where close to that of Advent Children.
The gab between both of those games was very significant.
Yes I stayed to the ending of Crisis Core.
It completely over wrote the entire story senario that is presented in VII and was in no way unique at all.
Like I said, if you like Zack then so be it, guy was a good guy. However that doesn't change the fact that he is very much a cliche and certainly much more so then Cloud ever came close to being.
No, they announced that VII Compilation would last until the 20th Ann, so ten more years at the point they said it.
However nothing has happened with it ever since they said that.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
They spent years animating Advent Children, which contained very little on-screen plot, because it didn't matter. It was a tech demo/a product.. narrative was certainly an afterthought. What little there was of "story" was just a backdrop for fighting scenes... and I'm not surprised that they massaged that little bit of backstory (there's a disease and some Sephiroth lookalikes) into a short story to be put out with the release. It was cobbled together into a narrative after the fact.
It's not like they started out with a story first and "chose to animate the wrong scenes", as you put it. The whole Advent Children started out as a half hour CG "scene", remember? It really was just a tech demo of FFVII imagery that eventually they decided to keep working at until it was sort of, kind of, a real movie.
Cloud was brooding because Nomura thinks that's a cool aesthetic for some "visual content", that's literally the whole reason. It was not because narrative demanded it. It's because Nomura thinks dark emo stylings are awesome
IrishNinja
Member
okay.
you tell me how Cloud was such a unique snowflake, then. because again, the OP's notion of how much his identity's changed into a generic emo character is spot-on, and even in the day when i was hyped as fuck about the game, i distinctly remember not really giving much of a fuck about his plight after the wheelchair stage.
You are flat out wrong about the novels, most of them shipped the same time as the film, and were deeply woven into the plotline. Not much to say other than you are wrong.
And whether Nomura had some agenda to have a brooding character for whatever reason is beside the point, as the entire plot revolved around Geostigma, and whether you find it an engaging plot or not, it was not some last minute decision they cobbled together. The entire theme was built around Cloud losing hope, and regaining it, which is 100% what Geostigma respresents. Again, you may not find it interesting, but the scenario you described is clearly false to anybody that paid attention during Advent Children and read the novels.
To be clear, I am NOT saying that Nomura didn't set out to have a brooding character to begin with. He very well may have. But the way it is handled in the film and novels justifies this, as well as the events that take place in the later parts of FF7. Nothing is out of character, and everything fits, whether you personally find it a good design choice or not.
So, while I don't know if Cloud's attitude really represents himself from FF7, I would have to say his attitude in Dissidia is definitely warranted. People often ride Cloud and Lightning for the way they acted in those games (and Cloud's constant pausing in the first Dissidia is admittedly grating) but at least Cloud questions the reasons behind their goal.
As to Cloud being all slumped over and crap in his Dissidia artwork, I'd like to point out that almost everybody's artwork for that game is in a similar pose, and that Cloud is hardly alone in looking upset.
As a matter of fact, I'm pretty sure Zidane is the only hero who smiles. No, okay, so its Zidane, Tidus and Shantotto. Everybody else has a downcast or serious expression. Heck, even BARTZ looks all sad.
As to Cloud being all slumped over and crap in his Dissidia artwork, I'd like to point out that almost everybody's artwork for that game is in a similar pose, and that Cloud is hardly alone in looking upset.
As a matter of fact, I'm pretty sure Zidane is the only hero who smiles. No, okay, so its Zidane, Tidus and Shantotto. Everybody else has a downcast or serious expression. Heck, even BARTZ looks all sad.
MasterSheen
Member
They should just remake it already before people start getting bored of final fantasy.
He never became an Emo character.
I'm not going to argue this any more. In my mind the only way you can come to this is to completely ignore every bit of story that has come along with it and play on retarded misconceptions that frankly a professional writer should be above.
As it stands Cloud's decent into depression alone makes him far more unique then Zack could ever hope to be.
polyh3dron
Banned
when is it not badly used?