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[BocoDragon]

You are flat out wrong about the novels, most of them shipped the same time as the film, and were deeply woven into the plotline. Not much to say other than you are wrong.
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There is very little of that "plotline" up on screen in the original cut of Advent Children. There's a disease, there are some Sephiroth clones, and Cloud is all emo about it. That's pretty much the extent of what is in the movie they spent years creating. You find it surprising that they were able to elaborate on it in short stories written long after CG development? I sure don't. And I think it's quite clear, based on the narrative present within the film itself, that plotting didn't dictate the character of Cloud. Cloud being mopey was a trademark Nomura aesthetic that they later justified with additional material.

To be clear, I am NOT saying that Nomura didn't set out to have a brooding character to begin with. He very well may have. But the way it is handled in the film and novels justifies this, as well as the events that take place in the later parts of FF7. Nothing is out of character, and everything fits, whether you personally find it a good design choice or not.

In VII, Cloud was a random, unspecial military officer, who only imagined he was a badass. He was kind of a loveable, clueless goof. He's often depicted in official FFVII art with a big dopey grin on his face.

In AC he's like an emo band rockstar doing Matrix movies. Brooding and posing like a 1990s CK ad.

"Nothing is out of character"?

 

[90sRobots]

Final Fantasy VIII and Dissidia (also would have to ignore that Squall is off balanced by almos the whole damn cast) wheren't released any where close to that of Advent Children.

The gab between both of those games was very significant.

Was it? Nojima probably began writing the story in 2002 as the movie was well into production by 2003. Squall was probably floating in the ol' noggin.

For added Square derp, here's Aya Brea, one flat tire away from killing herself. Lots of PE2 art is like this.

 

[Beth Cyra]

There is very little of that "plotline" up on screen in the original cut of Advent Children. There's a disease, there are some Sephiroth clones, and Cloud is all emo about it. That's pretty much the extent of what is in the movie they spent years creating. You find it surprising that they were able to elaborate on it in short stories written long after CG development? I sure don't. And I think it's quite clear, based on the narrative present within the film itself, that plotting didn't dictate the character of Cloud. Cloud being mopey was a trademark Nomura aesthetic that they later justified with additional material.

Nomura having characters in black doesn't make them Mopey or depressed.

Cloud could have easily had that outfit and still be as he was in VII. The story created dictated that, and we all know that the movie wasn't really in development for years as it is.

All story elements were added later so it makes sense something that set out to only be battle scenes ended up having the majority of it's story told elsewhere when the original project called for pretty much Zero story to being with.

 

[Ra1den]

There is very little of that "plotline" up on screen in the original cut of Advent Children. There's a disease, there are some Sephiroth clones, and Cloud is all emo about it. That's pretty much the extent of what is in the movie they spent years creating. You find it surprising that they were able to elaborate on it in short stories written long after CG development? I sure don't. And I think it's quite clear, based on the narrative present within the film itself, that plotting didn't dictate the character of Cloud. Cloud being mopey was a trademark Nomura aesthetic that they later justified with additional material.

Having a conflicted/struggling main character is hardly a specific Nomura trait. It's common across all forms of media. I'm quite confident they planned on having Cloud's conflicting emotions/depression be central part of the film from the very beginning, and I don't see how that is out of character at all, given the events that transpire in FF7. It's not like FF7 ends on some happy note with him being a cheerful guy.

The route they took in Advent Children is actually the only one that makes sense, if Cloud was featured as some happy carefree guy, it would really be messed up and not fit.

Also, perhaps it is time to remind everybody that HE WASN'T EVEN THAT MOPEY. Yeah he had several scenes where he is clearly grieving over his losses etc, why is that a problem? Reading some of these posts you'd think the whole film is him just brooding around, and this is not the case at all.

In VII, Cloud was a random, unspecial military officer, who only imagined he was a badass. He was kind of a loveable, clueless goof. He's often depicted in official FFVII art with a big dopey grin on his face.

In AC he's like an emo band rockstar doing Matrix movies. Brooding and posing like a 1990s CK ad.

Did you only play the first half of FF7? Either that, or for some reason you are imagining FF7 to have some happy ending with Cloud becoming cheery, which it did NOT.

 

[IrishNinja]

He never became an Emo character.

I'm not going to argue this any more.

haha, okay. didn't mean to step on your heroes' toes there, but you never did really answer my question...ah well.

 

[BocoDragon]

Nomura having characters in black doesn't make them Mopey or depressed.

Cloud could have easily had that outfit and still be as he was in VII. The story created dictated that, and we all know that the movie wasn't really in development for years as it is.

I agree that "black leather" styling was not out of character for FFVII. That game basically invented "black leather" and gave Nomura a blank cheque to run with the style.

In VII, Nomura was designing characters for other people's project... the well established FF series. He was making characters that were internally not unlike the plucky RPG characters of FFIV, V and VI, but with a more extreme external styling.

But by the time of Advent Children, Nomura would have thought of VII characters as "his characters" and he would have had free reign to be the boss in terms of characterization. I believe that Nomura's nature, his ideal vision of cool, is a brooding, dark character... kind of an asian Twilight style. And because he was now in charge of the direction of these characters, he did, in fact, cause a great change in characterization between the game and the movie.

 

[90sRobots]

Nomura having characters in black doesn't make them Mopey or depressed.

lol yes clearly Cloud was rocking that outfit because it was after Labor Day.

 

[Ra1den]

And because he was now in charge of the direction of these characters, he did, in fact, cause a great change in characterization between the game and the movie.

That change took place in FF7, which you are ignoring. It may have come across as stronger in Advent Children, but how is that suprising, when during FF7 the only thing on anybody's mind was stopping Sephiroth and Meteor. The game ended EXTREMELY abruptly after that. Advent Children puts Cloud in his most logical mindframe for the following years. It may not be one that you like, but don't try to make it seem like Nomura caused some 180 for the character that stands apart from FF7.

 

[ZombiePlatypus]

Cloud is not the happiest and cheeriest protagonist out there. Dissidia's Cloud character art is in line with that. I don't see an issue here. This article is trying way too hard.

Spoiler

NEVER DENY THE EVENTUAL ADVENT OF THE GLORIOUS REMAKE.

 

[BocoDragon]

Having a conflicted/struggling main character is hardly a specific Nomura trait. It's common across all forms of media. I'm quite confident they planned on having Cloud's conflicting emotions/depression be central part of the film from the very beginning, and I don't see how that is out of character at all, given the events that transpire in FF7. It's not like FF7 ends on some happy note with him being a cheerful guy.

The route they took in Advent Children is actually the only one that makes sense, if Cloud was featured as some happy carefree guy, it would really be messed up and not fit.

Also, perhaps it is time to remind everybody that HE WASN'T EVEN THAT MOPEY. Yeah he had several scenes where he is clearly grieving over his losses etc, why is that a problem? Reading some of these posts you'd think the whole film is him just brooding around, and this is not the case at all.



Did you only play the first half of FF7? Either that, or for some reason you are imagining FF7 to have some happy ending with Cloud becoming cheery, which it did NOT.

It's not even about Cloud being particularly mopey/emo... it's just that his character displays traits that are out of sync with the original game.

This was Cloud in 1997.

This was Cloud in 2005.

It just does not mesh... It really doesn't matter where in VII we compare Cloud to his AC incarnation. As deluded wannabe-Zack, or as confidant Sephiroth-confronting endgamer, he wouldn't be the kind of person who'd pose all pretty. He used to fully shrug his shoulders and dickishly say "not my problem", he used to be kind of dopey!... once, he even dressed like a girl for a hilarious comic relief moment. The visual kei character seen in AC just wouldn't do things like that... it would be in stark contrast to his "so cool" posturing.

 

[Robot Pants]

You are wrong. FFVII would sell millions, and your primary argument is that they'd be unable to replicate the way a guy looks? Please.

The real issue is that Square-Enix has by-and-large forgotten how to make good games.

Yuuup. I agree.

 

[ZombiePlatypus]

It's not even about Cloud being particularly mopey/emo... it's just that his character displays traits that are out of sync with the original game.

This was Cloud in 1997.

This was Cloud in 2005.

It just does not mesh... It really doesn't matter where in VII we compare Cloud to his AC incarnation. As deluded wannabe-Zack, or as confidant Sephiroth-confronting endgamer, he wouldn't be the kind of person who'd pose all pretty. He used to fully shrug his shoulders and dickishly say "not my problem", he used to be kind of dopey!... once, he even dressed like a girl for a hilarious comic relief moment. The visual kei character seen in AC just wouldn't do things like that... it would be in stark contrast to his "so cool" posturing.

Why are we pretending both sides have to be mutually exclusive? Just cause he's all badass and super-cool at one point, doesn't mean he can't have his goofy and dopey moments. Having both attributes will 1) make it more faithful to the original game (since FF7 while dark and broody had its fair fill of charming goofy parts) and 2) would make him a more believable and well rounded character.

 

[jaxword]

It's not even about Cloud being particularly mopey/emo... it's just that his character displays traits that are out of sync with the original game.

This was Cloud in 1997.

You should probably be more accurate and say that's the ONLY pic of Cloud widely smiling in the official artwork. The rest are all stoic (and a few sorta-smirks).

 

[Ra1den]

It's not even about Cloud being particularly mopey/emo... it's just that his character displays traits that are out of sync with the original game.

This was Cloud in 1997.

This was Cloud in 2005.

It just does not mesh... It really doesn't matter where in VII we compare Cloud to his AC incarnation. As deluded wannabe-Zack, or as confidant Sephiroth-confronting endgamer, he wouldn't be the kind of person who'd pose all pretty. He used to fully shrug his shoulders and dickishly say "not my problem", he used to be kind of dopey!... once, he even dressed like a girl for a hilarious comic relief moment. The visual kei character seen in AC just wouldn't do things like that... it would be in stark contrast to his "so cool" posturing.

This post really comes off as from somebody that hasn't played the game. I'm guessing you actually have played it, but perhaps it is time you replayed it.

When I look at that pic of Cloud on the Chocobo, it just SCREAMS out of character. He is never like that in the game...ever. That innocent adventurous smile, I mean. Even in the earlier part of the game, that picture is nothing like him. That expession is more fitting of Vaan from FFXII.

And it does matter where in the game we are looking at Cloud, becaue he CHANGES midway through it. So it only makes sense to have Advent Children reflect these changes. The attitude that you are continually referring to was a lie stemming from his personality disorder, and this disappears midway through, so why are you acting like this is how he should be acting in Advent Children?

 

[Beth Cyra]

lol yes clearly Cloud was rocking that outfit because it was after Labor Day.

Cloud did have the outfit before the story was added to Advent Children.

Lets also not forget that Zack wears all black and very happy and cheery.

Same goes for Sora who wears alot of black in Kingdom Hearts II and overall is a very postive character as well.

Also, Cloud's Advent Children design is really just a SOLDIER outfit with slight additions for the most part.

So no, the clothes certainly didn't dictate him being Depressed.

I will agree they laid it on a bit thick.

The best balance so far is has been Dissidia/Kingdom Hearts II. He has his quiter nature while still being strong and capable.

 

[90sRobots]

Advent Children is a very grey, dreary, drab movie. There's a lot of visual elements that make the movie feel depressing and yes, emo.

Even the darkest locales of FF VII had touches of neon color in them. Overall, FF VII is a very colorful game.

BUT OH WAIT GEOSTIGMA is what is making this movie a bland mess I'm so sorry I forgot

 

[Beth Cyra]

Advent Children is a very grey, dreary, drab movie. There's a lot of visual elements that make the movie feel depressing and yes, emo.

Even the darkest locales of FF VII had touches of neon color in them. Overall, FF VII is a very colorful game.

BUT OH WAIT GEOSTIGMA is what is making this movie a bland mess I'm so sorry I forgot

It takes place for the most part in a city that was ravaged by Meteor nearly hitting it.

Why would there be a ton of color and life in the place again?

 

[Ra1den]

Advent Children is a very grey, dreary, drab movie. There's a lot of visual elements that make the movie feel depressing and yes, emo.

Even the darkest locales of FF VII had touches of neon color in them. Overall, FF VII is a very colorful game.

BUT OH WAIT GEOSTIGMA is what is making this movie a bland mess I'm so sorry I forgot

But now you're changing the subject.

Also, Advent Children took place almost exclusively in Midgar, which was also always completely drab in FF7. Too bad they didn't put as many neon signs in it as FF7 had, that's a real shame.

 

[Esura]

If I got a dollar for every time the word emo was used in this thread I'd be set for life.

 

[90sRobots]

Because the writer made it that way. Again, you're acting like these are things that were set in stone. All sorts of wacky things could have happened to show the effects of the meteor! But I guess a meteor almost hitting a place turns things into Pleasantville. The ending of Armageddon was very dreary!

And while we're at it lol localization team let's localize the dumb kid's name into the most prolific black actor in American film history. Awesome.

 

[90sRobots]

But now you're changing the subject.

Also, Advent Children took place almost exclusively in Midgar, which was also always completely drab in FF7. Too bad they didn't put as many neon signs in it as FF7 had, that's a real shame.

Not really, this whole thread is about tone and tasteful design. Midgar is a big part of that. And yes, it is a bit of a shame to not have neon in AC Midgar. FF VII obviously took a cue from Blade Runner, which was rather inspired. It looked great! In AC it was flat and boring.

 

[ZombiePlatypus]

If I got a dollar for every time the word emo was used in this thread I'd be set for life.

Favorite post in thread so far. I hope SE's happy with themselves. They take for freaking ever delivering the one thing people ask for, and fans resort to grasping at straws and nit-picking things to death.

 

[Box of Bunnies]

And while we're at it lol localization team let's localize the dumb kid's name into the most prolific black actor in American film history. Awesome.

What else did you want them to do with Denzeru?

 

[Beth Cyra]

Because the writer made it that way. Again, you're acting like these are things that were set in stone. All sorts of wacky things could have happened to show the effects of the meteor! But I guess a meteor almost hitting a place turns things into Pleasantville. The ending of Armageddon was very dreary!

And while we're at it lol localization team let's localize the dumb kid's name into the most prolific black actor in American film history. Awesome.

The thing is these story element are very much a realistic extension.

No one is saying Advent Children is amazing, or that you have to like it. However the argument that it could be anything doesn't change the fact that Midgar was severly damaged and the depiction of it with in Advent Children does indeed jive with Final Fantasy VII and doesn't retcon the original in anyway.

Besides the having Midgar be complete intact and life filled would have been way more off putting regardless of the amount of color given how VII's ends.

 

[RedSwirl]

Would you guys even expect the gameplay to remain the same? I'm not sure they would go back to such an old game and simply re-do all the art assets. The closest examples we have are REmake and Twin Snakes. I'm not even sure how the world map system would work on a current gen game and not look goofy.

 

[Beth Cyra]

Would you guys even expect the gameplay to remain the same? I'm not sure they would go back to such an old game and simply re-do all the art assets. The closest examples we have are REmake and Twin Snakes. I'm not even sure how the world map system would work on a current gen game and not look goofy.

No, I would put money down that if VII got a remake it will have a change in battle system.

No chance we will have the old ATB back. It will be updated, be it the CTB, ADB or Cracked out ATB from X-2 or XIII it won't be VII's system.

Hell it could be something new altogether.

 

[WrenchNinja]

I played FFVII for the first time back in 2009 and then watched AC later that year. I don't see how Cloud's characterization is inconsistent. He was emulating Zack for a third of the game, was depressed after Aerith's death, was catatonic after falling into the Lifestream and having the truth revealed to him, and eventually snapped out of it thanks to Tifa and once shit started hitting the fan. But the stuff that happened in FFVII never left him and is reflected in the movie with all the regret over Aerith and Zack.

I mean, I know the movie is really dumb but there's nothing wrong with Cloud's characterization.

 

[Ra1den]

Not really, this whole thread is about tone and tasteful design. Midgar is a big part of that. And yes, it is a bit of a shame to not have neon in AC Midgar. FF VII obviously took a cue from Blade Runner, which was rather inspired. It looked great! In AC it was flat and boring.

This thread is about Cloud, not about art direction for the environments. Nevertheless, it's worth discussing. And I think you should take note of the fact that Midgar was ravaged by Meteor as has been pointed out. Maybe you should just watch Teletubbies if you need bright colors and don't like to see wasteland type environments.

I played FFVII for the first time back in 2009 and then watched AC later that year. I don't see how Cloud's characterization is inconsistent. He was emulating Zack for a third of the game, was depressed after Aerith's death, was catatonic after falling into the Lifestream and having the truth revealed to him, and eventually snapped out of it thanks to Tifa and once shit started hitting the fan. But the stuff that happened in FFVII never left him and is reflected in the movie with all the regret over Aerith and Zack.
.

Exactly, this is the only logical direction to go. The fact that people are finding this to be out of character is a bit surreal to me.

 

[ZombiePlatypus]

Would you guys even expect the gameplay to remain the same? I'm not sure they would go back to such an old game and simply re-do all the art assets. The closest examples we have are REmake and Twin Snakes. I'm not even sure how the world map system would work on a current gen game and not look goofy.

It can work just fine. Honestly, as long as they have a proper vision and style everything together properly they can convey everything in there faithfully and make it work. (Serious Cloud and dopey Cloud, World Map with "markers" for towns, etc.) HD visuals are not a hindrance here. So long as they have imagination and a fleshed out idea, they can do it.

 

[90sRobots]

What else did you want them to do with Denzeru?

Right, so in Chrono Trigger, instead of having Ozzy, Slash, and Axel, Ted Woosley should have had their names be English analogues to their Japanese names (which were food, a brand of humor that doesn't really work in North America). There's a difference between localizing and translating.

Name the little turd Danny or something. Though finding out his name was Denzel was hilarious.

 

[Beth Cyra]

Right, so in Chrono Trigger, instead of having Ozzy, Slash, and Axel, Ted Woosley should have had their names be English analogues to their Japanese names (which were food, a brand of humor that doesn't really work in North America). There's a difference between localizing and translating.

Name the little turd Danny or something. Though finding out his name was Denzel was hilarious.

Wait, are you tyring to say that he shouldn't have the name Denzel because a popular black man has that name?

Denzel is one a decently popular name, and given his Japanese name it makes every reason under the sun it should be as it is in english.

 

[jaxword]

Right, so in Chrono Trigger, instead of having Ozzy, Slash, and Axel, Ted Woosley should have had their names be English analogues to their Japanese names (which were food, a brand of humor that doesn't really work in North America). There's a difference between localizing and translating.

Name the little turd Danny or something. Though finding out his name was Denzel was hilarious.

You're really reaching for things to criticize here. His name's Denzel. There's no joke or deeper meaning, that's his name.

This sounds like those guys 15 years ago who complained "Cloud" sounds stupid and they should have made it "Claude" as a MUCH BETTER localization than those idiots at Square did *snort*.

 

[Wyndstryker]

If anything, I believe an FF7 remake would kill any remaining reputation that SE has. It'll sell, but it will be the final confirmation of them being unable to create a new FF that will resonate with gamers. And the game will be scrutinized so much on every little detail that if SE doesn't make it perfect, it'll crush them. Chances of them making it perfect is as pretty much nil.

 

[zoukka]

Each passing moment makes this game look more and more ridiculous. These designs will age worse than any other FF.

 

[90sRobots]

Denzel Washington owns that name. When someone says "Denzel," nobody really responds with "Denzel who?" Everyone knows it's Denzel Washington. Furthermore, Denzel is very much a "black" name in North America. White people aren't cool enough to rock that name, especially a spiky-haired ponce.

It's just a silly name for a little white kid. He should have had a best friend Aryan kid named Tyrone.

And I like the name Cloud! It's when we get to Lightning where things get lulzy.

 

[Imm0rt4l]

Oh god, never realized that the ps3 cloud looks hideous. Like something out of Oblivion >.<

Yea he doesn't look girlie enough!! I like my ff characters androgynous.

 

[ZombiePlatypus]

If anything, I believe an FF7 remake would kill any remaining reputation that SE has. It'll sell, but it will be the final confirmation of them being unable to create a new FF that will resonate with gamers. And the game will be scrutinized so much on every little detail that if SE doesn't make it perfect, it'll crush them. Chances of them making it perfect is as pretty much nil.

See, people say this, but I have a hard time believing everyone (including the nay-sayers) wouldn't start automatically drooling if SE puts out some footage of a remake if they were working on it.

Yea, SE has major issues and the last few entries in FF have been terribad, but that PS3 FFVII tech-demo is still a great example of what potentially could be if SE gets its act together.

 

[Beth Cyra]

Denzel Washington owns that name. When someone says "Denzel," nobody really responds with "Denzel who?" Everyone knows it's Denzel Washington. Furthermore, Denzel is very much a "black" name in North America. White people aren't cool enough to rock that name, especially a spiky-haired ponce.

It's just a silly name for a little white kid. He should have had a best friend Aryan kid named Tyrone.

And I like the name Cloud! It's when we get to Lightning where things get lulzy.

Wow, I finally found a use for the Neogaf Ignore feature.

 

[Unknown One]

When he was young he wasn't timid for long, he wanted to be accepted by the kids in town. Ever since Tifa's accident became brash and hot headed. Picking fights because he thought of himself as weak for failing to protect Tifa, which lead to him joining the military. Fast forward five years and he failed to become a somebody and failed at his promise to Tifa, he was ashamed to show his face around town. Cloud has a lot of changes in this game. Which is the true Cloud? They all are, people gradually change after all.

SE failed to make me believe the confident Cloud we had the end who has accepted his peers and was accepted by them would turn into a self loathing loner. Geostigma might be an excuse, but an upcoming meteor dooming the world didn't make him depressed. A bit out of character.

I believe if we were to swap out regular Cloud with AC Cloud he would end up wanting to do everything himself and moping alone.

 

[ZombiePlatypus]

When he was young he wasn't timid for long, he wanted to be accepted by the kids in town. Ever since Tifa's accident became brash and hot headed. Picking fights because he thought of himself as weak for failing to protect Tifa, which lead to him joining the military. Fast forward five years and he failed to become a somebody and failed at his promise to Tifa, he was ashamed to show his face around town. Cloud has a lot of changes in this game. Which is the true Cloud? They all are, people gradually change after all.

SE failed to make me believe the confident Cloud we had the end who has accepted his peers and was accepted by them would turn into a self loathing loner. Geostigma might be an excuse, but an upcoming meteor dooming the world didn't make him depressed. A bit out of character.

I believe if we were to swap out regular Cloud with AC Cloud he would end up wanting to do everything himself and moping alone.

Assuming SE stays faithful the original game in the remake, AC's not even relevant really. Regarding his personality, so long as they keep both his off-beat and quirky & bad-ass yet downer sides in-tact in the remake, I'd be satisfied.

 

[Sentenza]

What does that even mean @_@? If ya want a FF that plays itself I know a couple that could be recommended to ya!?

Yeah, sure, I like games that play themselves.
It's not like you have to farm for hours just to unlock some motherfucking end game spell, the silly golden pigeon, the best limits and stuff like that... No, the issue it's exactly about me liking games that play themselves.

Holy Christ, fans in denial...

 

[Box of Bunnies]

As a member of TokuGAF, I've seen and taken part in plenty of discussions on the subject of localisation vs literal translation, but this is the first time I've seen someone straight-up say "they should've changed that guys name because it's a black name and he's too white for it".

Congrats on the crazy.

 

[BocoDragon]

This post really comes off as from somebody that hasn't played the game. I'm guessing you actually have played it, but perhaps it is time you replayed it.

When I look at that pic of Cloud on the Chocobo, it just SCREAMS out of character. He is never like that in the game...ever. That innocent adventurous smile, I mean. Even in the earlier part of the game, that picture is nothing like him. That expession is more fitting of Vaan from FFXII.

And it does matter where in the game we are looking at Cloud, becaue he CHANGES midway through it. So it only makes sense to have Advent Children reflect these changes. The attitude that you are continually referring to was a lie stemming from his personality disorder, and this disappears midway through, so why are you acting like this is how he should be acting in Advent Children?

I've played the game the day it came out. I've played it several times at various points in my life.

^ well, you can say its out of sync if you like, but inconveniently, it's from the original release art. That was Cloud in 1997, as I said. No one had any problem with it back then.

That art of Cloud is out of sync with the retcon of his character, which based on how much you embrace AC and its novels, you readily accept.

The game itself was quite thin on characterization. He was kind of a dick and didn't like helping people. I'm sure you could accommodate that with the modern style of him being brooding and pretty... But nothing in the game itself hinted at that.

I thought of him as a kind of arrogant dope. He didn't give a shit about anyone, but underneath it all there was an adventurer who might crack a smile as he discovered himself having fun riding a Chocobo. As I said, that art was fine back then.

AC Cloud would never smile. He'd stare off into the distance and say something wannabe poetic. He'd be so cool. I don't really think VII Cloud was all that cool, actually. He was a flawed protagonist. His transformation through the game cannot explain how he turned into such a cool cat (in the magical confidant anime hero sense).

The characterization of Cloud in either media was handled by different people.. Why wouldn't there be a disconnect in Cloud's persona? I'm certain that there are all kinds of character details in the VII game and original art, that don't mesh with Cloud as we see him in AC. It's not necessarily a tragedy.. But yes, there was a change somewhere. I think it's quite logical to assume that it was the character designer, a kid hired to give a slightly dark anime look to a much bigger project not originally started by him, who eventually took the reigns of the characterization with the sequel movie, and applied his emo sensibilities to the characterization itself. I mean, it's not like Nomura doesn't do the same "dark leather/pretty hair/stonefaced pretension" thing in nearly even one of his projects, including something based on frickkn Disney. Of course he changed Cloud from the character he didn't originally write, to a new thing altogether.

 

[Wyndstryker]

See, people say this, but I have a hard time believing everyone (including the nay-sayers) wouldn't start automatically drooling if SE puts out some footage of a remake if they were working on it.

Yea, SE has major issues and the last few entries in FF have been terribad, but that PS3 FFVII tech-demo is still a great example of what potentially could be if SE gets its act together.

Like I said, it'll sell, and it'll probably sell a hell lot. And people would be drooling all over it. But at the same time when the game comes out it can be the nuke to hit SE if they don't pull it off perfectly. If they pull it off perfectly then good but realistically, can they pull it off perfectly.

 

[zoukka]

This game is so huge that remaking it would cost bazilillions on home consoles.

So bring on the III-IV esque remakes on 3DS pls.

 

[Beth Cyra]

I've played the game the day it came out. I've played it several times at various points in my life.

^ well, you can say its out of sync if you like, but inconveniently, it's from the original release art. That was Cloud in 1997, as I said. No one had any problem with it back then.

That art of Cloud is out of sync with the retcon of his character, which based on how much you embrace AC and its novels, you readily accept.

The game itself was quite thin on characterization. He was kind of a dick and didn't like helping people. I'm sure you could accommodate that with the modern style of him being brooding and pretty... But nothing in the game itself hinted at that.

I thought of him as a kind of arrogant dope. He didn't give a shit about anyone, but underneath it all there was an adventurer who might crack a smile as he discovered himself having fun riding a Chocobo. As I said, that art was fine back then.

AC Cloud would never smile. He'd stare off into the distance and say something wannabe poetic. He'd be so cool. I don't really think VII Cloud was all that cool, actually. He was a flawed protagonist. His transformation through the game cannot explain how he turned into such a cool cat.

The characterization of Cloud in either media was handled by different people.. Why wouldn't there be a disconnect in Cloud's persona? I'm certain that there are all kinds of character details in the VII game and original art, that don't mesh with Cloud as we see him in AC. It's not necessarily a tragedy.. But yes, there was a change somewhere. I think it's quite logical to assume that it was the character designer, a kid hired to give a slightly dark anime look to a much bigger project not originally started by him, who eventually took the reigns of the characterization with the sequel movie, and applied his emo sensibilities to the characterization itself. I mean, it's not like Nomura doesn't do the same "dark leather/pretty hair/stonefaced pretension" thing in nearly even one of his projects, including something based on frickkn Disney. Of course he changed Cloud from the character he didn't originally write, to a new thing altogether.

Thing is though, we know for a fact his didn't happen.

Nomura was working on FF since V so it wasn't him being brought on. Not only that but he did influence the story back then.

Tifa didn't origianlly exist and Aerith was planeed to be the love interest the whole way through. Nomura was the one that suggested Tifa and in so doing created one of the most talked about scenes in gaming for years.

He didn't do all the writing and character building, but Nomura was involved not only from deisgns but in otherways so your thoery doesn't jive with what happened.

 

[jaxword]

Denzel Washington owns that name. When someone says "Denzel," nobody really responds with "Denzel who?" Everyone knows it's Denzel Washington. Furthermore, Denzel is very much a "black" name in North America. White people aren't cool enough to rock that name, especially a spiky-haired ponce.

It's just a silly name for a little white kid. He should have had a best friend Aryan kid named Tyrone.

And I like the name Cloud! It's when we get to Lightning where things get lulzy.

Just going to let the contradictory stance of this post speak for itself.

 

[Box]

I don't even know what people here are debating anymore.

But I think the fact that Cloud's character has changed over time is more of a reason why it would be good to have a faithful remake, not less of one.

And for what it's worth, I played FFVII a few months ago and I didn't think Cloud was particularly angsty. I don't even think there was enough dialog to pull that off. Furthermore, I didn't think Squall was angsty when I played FFVIII recently either. I thought Squall was a very accurate depiction of loneliness (with one glaring flaw, albeit) which is the only consistent theme in the game. It wasn't contrived at all. I don't know why they made him look like a girl in Kingdom Hearts.

 

[davepoobond]

i think if they added analog support then that would be sufficient for a "remake."

 

[CorvoSol]

It's not even about Cloud being particularly mopey/emo... it's just that his character displays traits that are out of sync with the original game.

This was Cloud in 1997.

This was Cloud in 2005.

It just does not mesh... It really doesn't matter where in VII we compare Cloud to his AC incarnation. As deluded wannabe-Zack, or as confidant Sephiroth-confronting endgamer, he wouldn't be the kind of person who'd pose all pretty. He used to fully shrug his shoulders and dickishly say "not my problem", he used to be kind of dopey!... once, he even dressed like a girl for a hilarious comic relief moment. The visual kei character seen in AC just wouldn't do things like that... it would be in stark contrast to his "so cool" posturing.

And this was Cloud in Dissidia:


Guy still smiles. Besides, hasn't Cloud always been about being "So Cool"? The guy rode a motorcycle in FF7, Snowboarded, and his interactions with Leon in KH2 were all about that.