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Poligaf episode 2010: The Empire Strikes Back

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R

RustyNails

Member
Aaron Strife said:
I can't believe Dems actually came out of California stronger than they were last year. No House seats lost, Boxer won, and they got the governor's mansion back.

I guess when you have clowns like Fiorina and especially Whitman it's bound to have a down-ballot effect.
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AG's election is the only thing dividing Cali as a full Dem sweep at the moment. I really want Harris to get in the office because I see great potential in her. She's amazingly capable too and is really progressive on most of the issues.
Harris is personally opposed to the death penalty, but has said that she would review each case individually. Harris believes that life without possibility of parole is a more efficient, and cost effective, punishment.[24] According to the California Commission on the Fair Administration of Justice, the death penalty conservatively costs $137 million per year.[25] If the system were changed to life without possibility of parole, the annual costs would be approximately $12 million per year.[25] Harris noted that the resulting surplus could put 1,000 more police officers into service in San Francisco alone.[24]

As San Francisco District Attorney, Harris has raised the overall felony conviction rate from 52% in 2003 to 67% in 2006, the highest in a decade, secured an 85% conviction rate for homicides, and increased convictions of drug dealers from 56% in 2003 to 74% in 2006.[26] While these statistics represent only trial convictions, she has also closed many cases via plea bargains. When she took office, she took a special interest in clearing some of the murder caseload from the previous administration.

Harris has created a special Hate Crimes Unit as San Francisco District Attorney. She has focused on hate crimes against LGBT children and teens in schools. She convened a national conference to confront the "gay-transgender panic defense", which has been used to justify violent hate crimes.[33] Harris supports same-sex marriage in California and opposed both Proposition 22 and Proposition 8.[34]

During her time as San Francisco District Attorney, Harris created the Environmental Justice Unit in the San Francisco District Attorney’s Office[40] and has prosecuted several industries and individuals for pollution, most notably U-Haul, Alameda Publishing Corporation, and the Cosco Busan oil spill. She has also advocated for strong enforcement of environmental protection laws.[41]

Harris has prosecuted numerous financial crimes throughout her career, particularly those affecting elders, those involving use of high-technology, and identity theft.[42] She has indicated that as attorney general she would crack down on predatory lending and other financial crimes.
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Zero Hero

Zero Hero

Member
My company just had their (shitty)benefits meeting and shockingly, premiums have gone up! :O

Guess who's fault this is despite huge premium increases every year before HCR was passed?

I'm really starting to realize the immense power a TV station has over public opinion. I fucking weep for my children.
 
T

thekad

Banned
scorcho said:
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/...er-deals-blow-to-president-on-arms-treaty/?hp

despicable action by Kyl, but to be expected from an emboldened GOP. however, i blame this on Obama for not having the sense to announce that he will not seek re-election in 2012. why won't he rise above partisanship to do what's best for the country?
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NYT said:
If Mr. Obama cannot fulfill that promise, White House officials worry that it will diminish his credibility with world leaders and embolden hard-liners in Moscow who have long expressed skepticism about the rapprochement with Washington – among them, Prime Minister Vladimir V. Putin, who allowed Mr. Medvedev to pursue the warmer ties despite his own doubts.
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Knowing this, why did the White House expect Republicans to compromise, it directly going against their "Make Obama Look Bad" legislative agenda.
 
G

gcubed

Member
thekad said:
Knowing this, why did the White House expect Republicans to compromise, it directly going against their "Make Obama Look Bad" legislative agenda.
Click to expand...

its all obama's fault for never compromising or working with the GOP and his "back of the bus" mentality. They want to help, but he's just a mean jerk
 
L

leroidys

Member
scorcho said:
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/...er-deals-blow-to-president-on-arms-treaty/?hp

despicable action by Kyl, but to be expected from an emboldened GOP. however, i blame this on Obama for not having the sense to announce that he will not seek re-election in 2012. why won't he rise above partisanship to do what's best for the country?
Click to expand...

Compromise is securing billions of dollars for your constituents/donors before ratifying anything that would benefit the nation or the world.
 
S

scorcho

testicles on a cold fall morning
thekad said:
Knowing this, why did the White House expect Republicans to compromise, it directly going against their "Make Obama Look Bad" legislative agenda.
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they expected Kyl to hold his word, sadly.

http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2010/11/16/kyl_says_no_lame_duck_vote_on_new_start

it's sad that the realism that was once the pillar of Republican foreign policy has completely vanished alongside a hyper-partisan Congress. you have idiocy like this in tandem with Cantor's pledge to Bibi to check any WH action against Israel's government.

a fine day for a coherent American foreign policy
 
J

Jackson50

Member
scorcho said:
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/...er-deals-blow-to-president-on-arms-treaty/?hp

despicable action by Kyl, but to be expected from an emboldened GOP. however, i blame this on Obama for not having the sense to announce that he will not seek re-election in 2012. why won't he rise above partisanship to do what's best for the country?
Click to expand...
This could be the death knell for New START. It is appallingly astonishing that the Administration capitulated on nearly every demand and he intransigently rejected the compromise. I do not want to consider the consequences of this deleterious move. Incomprehensible.
 
R

RustyNails

Member
scorcho said:
they expected Kyl to hold his word, sadly.

http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2010/11/16/kyl_says_no_lame_duck_vote_on_new_start

it's sad that the realism that was once the pillar of Republican foreign policy has completely vanished alongside a hyper-partisan Congress. you have idiocy like this in tandem with Cantor's pledge to Bibi to check any WH action against Israel's government.

a fine day for a coherent American foreign policy
Click to expand...
Am I the only one utterly unsurprised by these moves by Republican neocon jackasses? I mean Eric Cantor is the biggest AIPAC prostitute currently in the congress. This man will nuke USA if it means preserving Israel. And anyone who expected Republicans to play ball should have a reality check.
 
T

thekad

Banned
This makes me hopeful:

A senior administration official, speaking to the Financial Times, warned if the treaty isn't ratified this year, all that money for the nuclear complex could go away. "There is a risk that not moving ahead [in the Senate now] could shatter the fragile consensus on modernizing the nuclear complex," the official said
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This brings me back down to Earth:

Some top Democrats are also calling for the treaty to be postponed until next year.

"I'm a firm yes vote, but the lame duck session should focus on jobs, the economy, and reducing the debt," Sen. Ben Nelson (D-NE) told The Cable. "We can take care of the START treaty after the first of the year."
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It's going to be a long two years.
 
mckmas8808

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
thekad said:
This makes me hopeful:



This brings me back down to Earth:



It's going to be a long two years.
Click to expand...


I blame this more on DEMs that want to push this until next year.
 
C

CharlieDigital

Banned
Haven't seen a lot of activity about this in PoliGAF, but the GM IPO is looking like it's going to be better than expected for the US taxpayers.

GM IPO price hike good news for taxpayers

DETROIT — Fueled by strong investor demand, General Motors is setting a higher share price for Thursday's initial public stock offering. The increase boosts the automaker's market value to $50 billion and moves its largest owner, the U.S. government, closer to recouping all the money it spent saving GM from ruin.

But even with the increase, GM's value is still short of what the government needs to recoup the whole bailout.

GM announced Tuesday that it would raise the price range for common stock being sold this week to $32 to $33 per share, up from the range revealed two weeks ago, $26 to $29.

At $33 apiece, the total value of the 1.5 billion outstanding GM shares would be nearly $50 billion, up $6 billion in the last two weeks. That's a huge improvement, but still short of the $65.6 billion market value needed for the government to get back all the taxpayer dollars it used to get GM through a painful bankruptcy restructuring.

"If GM performs as expected, the stock will steadily improve in valuation," rising to $45 or more in the next year, he said.

Bankers handling the GM stock sale, which is planned for Thursday, are likely to exercise an option to sell 15 percent more shares from the government and two of GM's other owners, the combined Canadian and Ontario governments and a union health care trust fund. That could bring in even more money.

At the high end of the new price range, $33 per share, the government could reap as much as $10 billion in the IPO. That's $2.3 billion, or about 31 percent more than it would have made two weeks ago.

But analysts say GM's share price is likely to rise above $33 once it begins trading on the New York Stock Exchange under the company's old symbol, GM. The shares should rise, they say, as auto sales continue to slowly improve during the next few years. If the shares get to $50, the government will get back all $30 billion left from its original $50 billion bailout.​
We may yet recoup a good portion -- if not all -- of the bailout money used to rescue GM.
 
Trojita

Trojita

Rapid Response Threadmaker
RustyNails said:
Am I the only one utterly unsurprised by these moves by Republican neocon jackasses? I mean Eric Cantor is the biggest AIPAC prostitute currently in the congress. This man will nuke USA if it means preserving Israel. And anyone who expected Republicans to play ball should have a reality check.
Click to expand...

I have never understood the undying love shown to Israel by neocons, and I probably never will because it's insane. I work with one of these people and they can't give any good reasons besides some misguided religious fundamental belief that they need to protect this state. Jordan is the best ally in the middle east that the United States has.
 
R

RustyNails

Member
Trojita said:
I have never understood the undying love shown to Israel by neocons, and I probably never will because it's insane. I work with one of these people and they can't give any good reasons besides some misguided religious fundamental belief that they need to protect this state. Jordan is the best ally in the middle east that the United States has.
Click to expand...
God's chosen people, practically unending money stream, combined with the most powerful lobby in Washington. These forces have shifted the debate from "why does Israel need our protection?" to "why shouldn't we protect Israel?"

I recommend watching American Radical. Some incredible insight into forces framing the Israeli debate.
 
B

BigSicily

Banned
Pretty damning. I'm sure there are ulterior political motives, but there's no question in my mind that the democratic ground game (GOTV) was superior to the republican one and is what helped cause the divergence in some states from the polling Link to Politico Story


Politico said:
The short version of the RNC’s 2010 troubles as described by Collins: The committee couldn’t afford to run an independent expenditure ad campaign on behalf of their candidates, didn’t fund a paid voter turnout operation for Senate and gubernatorial races, left its vaunted 72-Hour turnout program effectively unfunded, offered only a fraction of the direct-to-candidate financial contributions they made four years ago and dramatically scaled back its support of state parties…

Collins is not one of the committee’s persistent Steele critics but a respected operative and senior staffer inside the RNC building who was given authority over the $15 million line of credit the party took out this fall. In addition to the normal duties of his job, Collins spent much of the summer and fall quietly travelling the country and meeting with major donors in an effort to boost the party’s lackluster fundraising. It was a highly unusual task for a political director and, coupled with his primary job responsibilities, effectively made the Iowa native the operational head of the party.
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Politco said:
“For the 2010 election year itself, RNC cash transfers to state parties for political purposes were just $13.1 million—less than a quarter of the $56.7 million cash transfers to state parties in 2006 for political purposes,” Collins writes. “And in 2010, the RNC went $15 million into debt to fund these programs.”

He makes the case that the party’s lack of money directly resulted in missed opportunities in an otherwise stellar year for the GOP.

Collins cites a study that he says found that the GOP could have won the Washington and Colorado Senate races with a better field operation and says that he’d chalk up narrow gubernatorial losses in Connecticut, Minnesota and Vermont to the same lack of funds for a ground game.

The veteran Republican operative also tallies 21 House contests in every corner of the country that he asserts “could have been competitive if not for lack of funds.”

In some of the states where the GOP picked up House seats, Collins notes it was partly because of outside help the party got for field funding.
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Politico said:
“The [Republican Governors Association] spent $18 million on GOTV-related expenses in 18 gubernatorial states,” he writes. “$13.2 million of those dollars went directly to state parties—more than the RNC transferred to state parties for political spending in all 50 states. More than half our US House pick-ups (31 of 60) and five of our most crucial holds were won in those 18 states.”

And in the case of the two missed Senate opportunities, Washington state didn’t have a governor’s race and the RGA didn’t play in the Colorado gubernatorial contest.

Collins lays the party’s fundraising shortfall squarely at the feet of Steele.


“In the last two non-presidential cycles of 2002 and 2006, the RNC raised $284 million and $243 million respectively,” he writes, without noting Republicans held the White House in those two campaigns. “So far this cycle, the RNC has reported raising just $170 million. Less than $18 million (10.53%) of that total came from contributions of $1,000 or more, collected from a mere 5,379 donors. This is a fraction of either the previous cycles.”
Click to expand...
 
J

Jackson50

Member
Trojita said:
I have never understood the undying love shown to Israel by neocons, and I probably never will because it's insane. I work with one of these people and they can't give any good reasons besides some misguided religious fundamental belief that they need to protect this state. Jordan is the best ally in the middle east that the United States has.
Click to expand...
Neoconservatives view support of Israel as morally imperative. It is the only liberal democracy in the ME and is thus deserving of resolute support. That is congruous with the overarching ideology of neoconservativism. Although there is occasional overlap, I rarely witness neoconservatives employing religion as the catalyst for their support. That is usually the purview of Christian Zionism which is popular with Christian conservatives whose support is primarily influenced by their eschatology.
 
C

cartoon_soldier

Member
Jackson50 said:
Neoconservatives view support of Israel as morally imperative. It is the only liberal democracy in the ME and is thus deserving of resolute support. That is congruous with the overarching ideology of neoconservativism. Although there is occasional overlap, I rarely witness neoconservatives employing religion as the catalyst for their support. That is usually the purview of Christian Zionism which is popular with Christian conservatives whose support is primarily influenced by their eschatology.
Click to expand...

I think while they don't publicly take to religion in their support for Israel, it does drive it. Classic example is when Obama administration was unhappy over renewal of constructions, Sarah Palin said disagreed because she said more and more people will be going to Israel in the coming weeks, months, years. That is classic End of Times based thinking around that part of the world.
 
A

Aaron Strife

Banned
PPP's done its first polls of the 2012 cycle in Montana (Senate) and Virginia (Presidential). The inverse of those will come out tomorrow (MT-PRES, VA-SEN).

Barack Obama 48 Mitt Romney 43
Barack Obama 49 Mike Huckabee 44
Barack Obama 51 Sarah Palin 40
Barack Obama 52 Newt Gingrich 41

Jon Tester (D) 48 Steve Daines (R) 37
Jon Tester (D) 46 Neil Livingstone (R) 35
Jon Tester (D) 46 Denny Rehberg (R) 48
Jon Tester (D) 42 Marc Racicot (R) 49

Obviously early, but if these numbers hold up in 2 years, Obama should be sitting pretty for re-election, and Jon Tester won't go down easy. Dunno how PD's doomsday scenario of losing the White House and Senate in 2012 will play out.
 
R

Ripclawe

Banned
“For the 2010 election year itself, RNC cash transfers to state parties for political purposes were just $13.1 million—less than a quarter of the $56.7 million cash transfers to state parties in 2006 for political purposes,” Collins writes. “And in 2010, the RNC went $15 million into debt to fund these programs.”
Click to expand...

Problem for the RNC is even before Steele more and more people are going directly to 3rd party groups and giving directly to the candidates. Unloading it all on Steele is ridiculous.

As for START, that was dead already before Kyl.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/nov/16/barack-obama-nuclear-hopes-fading

Barack Obama's hopes of reshaping US foreign policy stand on the brink of failure tonight, after two of his most cherished initiatives — nuclear disarmament and better relations with Moscow — were dealt serious setbacks.

According to a leaked Nato document seen by the Guardian, a move to withdraw US tactical nuclear weapons from Europe has been omitted from the alliance's draft strategic doctrine, due to be adopted by a summit this weekend in Lisbon.

In the latest draft of Nato's "new strategic concept", seen by the Guardian, nuclear weapons remain at the core of Nato doctrine, and an attempt to withdraw an estimated 200 American B-61 nuclear bombs from Europe, a legacy of the cold war, is not mentioned.

Germany, the Netherlands and Belgium – who all have B-61 bombs on their soil – had pushed to have the tactical weapons removed, with the encouragement of supporters of disarmament in the Obama camp including the US ambassador to Nato, Ivo Daalder.

However, in a victory for France, which led a rearguard action against diluting nuclear deterrence in Nato doctrine, the draft strategic concept states that the weapons would only be removed as a trade-off with Moscow.

"In any future reductions, our aim should be to seek Russian agreement to increase transparency on its nuclear weapons in Europe and relocate these weapons away from the territory of Nato members," the draft states. "Any further steps must take into account the disparity with the greater Russian stockpile of short-range nuclear weapons."
Click to expand...
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
Aaron Strife said:
PPP's done its first polls of the 2012 cycle in Montana (Senate) and Virginia (Presidential). The inverse of those will come out tomorrow (MT-PRES, VA-SEN).

Barack Obama 48 Mitt Romney 43
Barack Obama 49 Mike Huckabee 44
Barack Obama 51 Sarah Palin 40
Barack Obama 52 Newt Gingrich 41

Jon Tester (D) 48 Steve Daines (R) 37
Jon Tester (D) 46 Neil Livingstone (R) 35
Jon Tester (D) 46 Denny Rehberg (R) 48
Jon Tester (D) 42 Marc Racicot (R) 49

Obviously early, but if these numbers hold up in 2 years, Obama should be sitting pretty for re-election, and Jon Tester won't go down easy. Dunno how PD's doomsday scenario of losing the White House and Senate in 2012 will play out.
Click to expand...

I'll buy you a $50 gift card to whatever store you want if Obama wins Virginia again lol
 
J

Jackson50

Member
cartoon_soldier said:
I think while they don't publicly take to religion in their support for Israel, it does drive it. Classic example is when Obama administration was unhappy over renewal of constructions, Sarah Palin said disagreed because she said more and more people will be going to Israel in the coming weeks, months, years. That is classic End of Times based thinking around that part of the world.
Click to expand...
Yes. There is some overlap as I noted. I think many Christian Zionists would espouse neoconservative ideals. But the core neoconservative thinkers (John Podhoretz, Bill Kristol, etc.) do not base their positions on eschatology.

Ripclawe said:
As for START, that was dead already before Kyl.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010...r-hopes-fading
Click to expand...
That is unrelated to New START. That pertains to TNWs (tactical nukes). TNWs are not included in New START. And that article is misleading. The Administration never pushed for the removal of the TNWs from Europe. This is decidedly more disappointing for the Germans.
 
W

Wray

Member
PhoenixDark said:
I'll buy you a $50 gift card to whatever store you want if Obama wins Virginia again lol
Click to expand...

The demographics have shifted enough in VA to let him win again. General Elections are all about demographics my friend.

NV, NM, CO, and VA are in the bag.

It's states like Indiana and NC that will probably swing back to the GOP.
 
Trojita

Trojita

Rapid Response Threadmaker
Jackson50 said:
Neoconservatives view support of Israel as morally imperative. It is the only liberal democracy in the ME and is thus deserving of resolute support. That is congruous with the overarching ideology of neoconservativism. Although there is occasional overlap, I rarely witness neoconservatives employing religion as the catalyst for their support. That is usually the purview of Christian Zionism which is popular with Christian conservatives whose support is primarily influenced by their eschatology.
Click to expand...

How do you determine when another country deserves resolute support? Should they not be punished or reprimanded for breaking International Law?
 
D

dschalter

Member
Wray said:
The demographics have shifted enough in VA to let him win again. General Elections are all about demographics my friend.

NV, NM, CO, and VA are in the bag.

It's states like Indiana and NC that will probably swing back to the GOP.
Click to expand...

Those states are not "in the bag" at all, though I think he will win Colorado fairly easily. Demographic change is something that happens over time, not instantly. This is a pretty common delusion, but there is no real basis to it, unless you are talking 10-20 years in the future (by which time more things may have changed anyway).
 
J

Jackson50

Member
Trojita said:
How do you determine when another country deserves resolute support? Should they not be punished or reprimanded for breaking International Law?
Click to expand...
When its ideals and values align with your own. And this furthered by the propensity to view the world as a binary struggle between good (Israel) and evil (Israel's opponents).

No. While neoconservativism amalgamates disparate facets of liberalism and idealism, it has a general disdain for international institutions and law.

However, I am not a neoconservative, so I am not interested in apologizing for them.
 
B

Byakuya769

Member
gcubed said:
its all obama's fault for never compromising or working with the GOP and his "back of the bus" mentality. They want to help, but he's just a mean jerk
Click to expand...

This.

The sad thing is, is that if the GOP was black, I bet Obama would be working with them on everything.
 
A

Aaron Strife

Banned
PhoenixDark said:
I'll buy you a $50 gift card to whatever store you want if Obama wins Virginia again lol
Click to expand...
It almost sounds like you want me to take you up on that.

I think Obama's prospects in Virginia are helped by an enthusiasm gap that won't be anywhere near as pronounced in 2012.
 
R

RustyNails

Member
Virginia had the best ground game out of all the states, save maybe PA or OH. It will definitely require reconnecting to the old voter list from 2008 and convincing new ones. Remember, northern Virginia is ever expanding and is not a part of Real America.
 
R

RustyNails

Member
Frank the Great said:
Obama will be fine, it usually takes something huge to keep a president limited to just one term in the modern era.
Click to expand...
You mean like an international Abu Ghraib prison torture scandal and two unpopular wars? :p
 
R

RustyNails

Member
Byakuya769 said:
Heh. I would be careful about where they do any vacationing around election time...
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:lol

Speaking of which, Fox News is at it again

779Vw.jpg


Obama is un-American, confirmed.
 
B

BigSicily

Banned
Wray said:
The demographics have shifted enough in VA to let him win again. General Elections are all about demographics my friend.

NV, NM, CO, and VA are in the bag.

It's states like Indiana and NC that will probably swing back to the GOP.
Click to expand...

The demographic will split in a much different manner as Obama cuts across different cross-sections of the electorate than is typical.

Indiana and VA look to be red-states again. OH and FL are red. Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania (which is perennial repub fools gold) will be interesting to see. WI is in play for sure.

NV, NM, CO and NC are toss-ups dependent on who the Republicans put up as President and Vice. North Carolina is not as likely as you think to swing back red due to the minority vote. As of today, Obama's 45% approval is buoyed by his strong racial vote: 90%+ Black, 70%+ Hispanic, etc.

Combined with his oration, this is why Marco Rubio will one day be such a pain-in-the-ass for the democratic party.
 
S

Salazar

Member
Byakuya769 said:
Rusty, Salazar, I think it's time you get drowned out by chants of my grant nation.

USA USA USA.
Click to expand...

You crazy if you think it can compete with

Mae hen wlad fy nhadau yn annwyl i mi,
Gwlad beirdd a chantorion, enwogion o fri;
Ei gwrol ryfelwyr, gwladgarwyr tra mâd,
Dros ryddid collasant eu gwaed.
 
J

JayDubya

Banned
Salazar said:
You crazy if you think it can compete with

Mae hen wlad fy nhadau yn annwyl i mi,
Gwlad beirdd a chantorion, enwogion o fri;
Ei gwrol ryfelwyr, gwladgarwyr tra mâd,
Dros ryddid collasant eu gwaed.
Click to expand...

Are you summoning a Great Old One?
 
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