CountBlack
Member
I hate this matchup so much lol.
I use U1 in it though.. so they can't get any free ex PC's while you have the bar.
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Ultra Street Fighter IV |OT| What is old is new once again
- Thread starter Kadey
- Start date
I hate this matchup so much lol.
I use U1 in it though.. so they can't get any free ex PC's while you have the bar.
Shouta
Member
Played Air's Poison in casuals last night He beat me 5-2 but it wasn't too bad for a first time. I was half dead and have been out of practice in USF4 by the time I got to play him. It's super strong and definitely a big counter to folks that enjoy pressing buttons but of course, Poison has a bad match-up against grapplers. I actually walked him to the corner with Hawk, something no one else could do last night, lol. Felt pretty good.
How? By design it seems like she should destroy grapplers.
Has trouble with T.Hawk, Gief and Hakan. She's unable to punish T-hawks dive, can't go for many fireball blockstring against them, her flip kick can be reversal spd'd on block,t he space poison wants to throw fireballs at gets her blown up by stuff like oil slide and green hand on reaction, a lot of her wake up options are weak in the matchups as well and she has the same issues Fei has with rekkas against grapplers. They're very slow matchups.
Isn't flip kick only -1 if it hits on the first active frame?(most of the time it will hit on the later active frames as well)
Shouta
Member
-1 still means that if she tries to do something a grappler can SPD or U1. If she backdashes, greenhand or or spire will catch her or put you in a position to SPD her as she recovers. Then obviously EX SPD is another option if she continues her offense anyway.
I think EX dive also causes hawk to bound back farther making it harder.
Also, Poison doesn't have the best fireball in the game. Guile does and he zones Hawk and gief far better than Poison does overall. His walk speed helps as well.
stn
Member
I think Poison's fireball is better taken on its own, especially when she has EX. Its really hard to setup situations where you can AA immediately after throwing a fireball, though Poison does it quite well.
Why Guile zones grapplers better is because he can throw a boom while walking backwards, and because his st. fp has horizontal range to counter stuff like green hand. Though I do think Poison's AA options are just as good, especially when she has meter, since she doesn't have to worry about charge. Also, it should be noted that Poison has better wake-up options against grapplers when they do eventually get in, while Guile is in much more trouble. I mean, he has a great fireball and yet he's been mid-tier or lower in every game except Super. And for him to be considered good he had to have the craziest meter gain.
Shouta
Member
Poison's fireball has either fast start-up, long recovery or slow start-up, fast recovery. Guile's is fast start-up and fast recovery. While she can setup an AA after tossing a HP fireball, characters that can instantly go through the fireball can easily just beat her as she's tossing it out preventing her from doing an AA. As an example. Getting a condor dive to punish a fireball is much easier with Hawk on Poison than it is against Guile.
Guile's biggest strength against grapplers is his speed and the speed/recovery on his boom something that Poison doesn't have. Additionally, in the match-up against Hawk, Poison doesn't have a reliable AA against him without meter where Guile does.
stn
Member
That's true, but Poison can bait moves like the condor better by pacing back and forth. Guile has to stay grounded and either walk backwards or crouch to hold charge. He can knee forward but I will assume at that point he doesn't have enough space to do so.
As for the reliable AA with meter, I assume you mean the EX flash kick? Poison has cr. fp which is solid, especially if done early. Also, if Guile is sitting on charge no Hawk will dive in. If Guile throws a boom but Hawk does dive in, Guile won't have down charge for a EX flash kick anyway.
I also factor in the idea that Poison has a better reversal when under pressure. SF4 is the type of game where characters WILL get in on good zoning at one point or another. Its easier for her to FADC to safety than Guile, especially because she can mash the reversal (I hate that I'm even considering this but its the nature of the game).
For the record, I think fireballs are mediocre overall no matter which character it is, so I wouldn't be surprised if you were correct.
As for the reliable AA with meter, I assume you mean the EX flash kick? Poison has cr. fp which is solid, especially if done early. Also, if Guile is sitting on charge no Hawk will dive in. If Guile throws a boom but Hawk does dive in, Guile won't have down charge for a EX flash kick anyway.
I also factor in the idea that Poison has a better reversal when under pressure. SF4 is the type of game where characters WILL get in on good zoning at one point or another. Its easier for her to FADC to safety than Guile, especially because she can mash the reversal (I hate that I'm even considering this but its the nature of the game).
For the record, I think fireballs are mediocre overall no matter which character it is, so I wouldn't be surprised if you were correct.
Shouta
Member
I meant for Poison. She doesn't have a good all-purpose option to beat Condor Dive against Hawk. The only one is her EX DP. Trying to time normals to AA hawk with Posion can be beaten by diving at different times unless she has meter. Trying to DP with her regular ones is unreliable and can whiff against Hawk, leading to him getting big damage as well. Guile has better buttons to AA with and, at least against Hawk, has the option to air throw. Air Throw is ridiculously good too, lol.
stn
Member
Though I think AA'ing Hawk's dive with normals is risky even for Guile, no? He has to have good timing else he risks a trade or getting beat out. Also, Poison has better options if Hawk does EX spire since she can DP if forced to block. Guile has to pretty much backdash or tech.
On another note, uploaded some Gouken and Rolento matches recently. Hope you enjoy, feel free to sub if you like the content!
On another note, uploaded some Gouken and Rolento matches recently. Hope you enjoy, feel free to sub if you like the content!
Professor Beef
Banned
...you do know that the average time Poison's fireball stays on screen is more than the time it takes for Guile to charge a Boom, right? Charging is not a deterrence to Guile's projectile game.
Kaleinc
Banned
Backdash, yolo ex-spirals, ultra 2, standing mk are your friends.
Fright Zone
Member
I was trying to backdash after every knockdown to avoid mix ups but I just end up in the corner and then it's game over.
I just resort to throwing out random soul spirals and soul throws trying to second guess him and then get massively punished.
CountBlack
Member
Sometimes when I need help in a matchup, I look at Louffy videos tbh
Louffy vs Phenom Grand Finals of some tournament Louffy obviously dominated.
gumo gumo no....
tell yourself.
Member
Just bought the game recently, holy crap ultra is fun.
feel free to add me on steam: audiophones
been playing non stop the past couple of days, linking is kinda rough
feel free to add me on steam: audiophones
been playing non stop the past couple of days, linking is kinda rough
Man, going from Fei back to Elena is so jarring. It's like the game turns into easy mode. AA'ing is easier because I can just sit back and wait for the opponent to do something dumb and once you get them on the ground its game over(...unless it's chun/bison/balrog). I struggle to get to 2kpp with Fei, while Elena is the only character I play where I can get to 3kpp.
As an extn to this. How do you beat Bison/Balrog with any character? I'm so free to these characters that I just assume I, gonna lose when I see the opponent pick them, no matter which character I play. The fear of lk scissors is too strong.
As an extn to this. How do you beat Bison/Balrog with any character? I'm so free to these characters that I just assume I, gonna lose when I see the opponent pick them, no matter which character I play. The fear of lk scissors is too strong.
I can only offer a mostly Ken perspective.
For Bison, I try to stay mobile and look for the range where he likes to scissor. Lk Scissor has a specific range, and outside of it he has to use the other ones, which are unsafe if he hits twice and can be focused otherwise. Staying either outside or inside the perfect lk scissor range is the goal.
That said, lk scissors is less scary than it looks. It does like 70ish damage IIRC, which is measly in this game. Sure it knocks you down, but you shouldn't panic on that, it's not like Bison is a vortex character. If you get put in the corner, and you will, look for what Bison likes tlo do to keep you in there and adapt appropriately. In almost all cases it is best to wait for him to act. Jumping badly or reversaling immediately = you eat unnecessary damage and is the rare case where you can get stunned by bison. Headstomp and Devil's reverse can be both beaten by jump back attacks or avoided by moving forward. Don't pressure Bison too hard on knockdown when he has meter, but when he doesn't jump on him inside of the range of his St RH until he proves he can anti-air you consistently. His AA is weak or pre-emptory without meter. Don't walk around too much because of slide. Outfootsie him, get the life lead somehow and sit on it.
With Balrog, again staying outside of the range of his lp punch is a good idea if you can. Unlike Bison Balrog has good AA so don't jump too much when he has charge and especially when he has ultra. He's a hard character to beat for a lot of characters, including Ken =(. Don't get frustrated by rush punches and react to TAPs if you can with DP's or similar moves. Counter rush punches by mixing up neutral jumps, focuses, and using multi-hit or armor breaking moves. His headbutt sucks as a reversal and loses to low meaty attacks so use them but beware of his armor rush punch as a possibility too.
Yeah, it has 0 invincibility on the legs. You can straight up stuff the headbutt before it even comes out and get a full grounded combo. EX has full invincibility but it will still whiff.
I had no idea his reversal lost to meaty lows. I thought it beat everything, especially because it's invincible for what seems to be forever.
edit: dat stealth edit
It's one of those weird quirks of the game.
You'll get hit if you're too close with EX. I should've clarified, far low meaties like cr mk make the headbutt whiff bc the hitbox is higher than the leg even though he will still do the move. Cr short will get you hit because your body is right there in front of him.
Even with that though, EX Rush Punch will blow you up so he's not quite Freejay to them. Mix up accordingly, cross ups, throw, etc.
Snacks the sober sea lion
Member
I keep forgetting about this game because Capcom killed it so hard on PC.
hitsugi
Member
I've only seen a handful of absurd BP totals on PC, but I've never actually run into the players.
black_vegeta
Member
Lost Fragment
Obsessed with 4chan
Need a Chumlee alt for Chun Lee stat.
Lol. I mean you can play offline if you have a scene but its hard to coordinate times and such more than once a week so you gotta play somehow.
The Mango Sentinel
Member
hitsugi
Member
I just play the same I would on and off. Screw it. If I miss 1 frame links or get hit because my reactions weren't fast enough for someone skipping through the air, so be it. Better that than to adapt an 'online' style of play which won't work offline
The Mango Sentinel
Member
You can say that about almost any SF4 character. (some exceptions)
Moreso with Elena. A missed combo can be punished pretty hard.
Which combo are you trying to do six? There are easier versions of her BnB's you can do.
stn
Member
East coast, usually on at 9PM most nights except FRI-SAT.
I was trying these two from the SRK combo thread
She seemed like a fun character, but I've never been able to hit 1 or 2 frame links consistently in these games, so I try to stay away from characters who have tight combos.
try c.lp, c.lp, c.lp xx mk SS for the first one
and
c.lk, c.lp, c.lp xx mk SS for the second
The first one drops the plinkable 1 frame link for all 2 framers and the second one becomes one 2 frame link and one 1 frame link.
The second one is still difficult due to the 1 frame link, but the first one should be very manageable. her first one you'll also be using in way more situations vs the second. I only start with her c.lk if I'm going for a meaty.
zedreamcast
Member
Hey um Im pretty new to playing Street Fighter, only started playing 2 weeks ago and im having trouble finding people on my level to play with and practice with and my friend from another thread said maybe I should check here.
I got it on PS3 and really wanna Git Gud.
I got it on PS3 and really wanna Git Gud.
AkumaHokoru
Member
step 1. practice more.
You are 2 weeks in so wins will be sparse (usually against people way way way way worse than you)
Step 2. Figure out the best stuff your characters has, look at vids look at a character guide that was updated. Practice stuff the character has and learn to mix it up (because if you play too by the book you'll be predictable)
Step 3. Work on teching. good god work on teching. just dedicate some time to practice teching throws. you'll thank me for it later. watch a few matches to learn some good habits. dont get too caught up in pp/bp it doesnt mean shit offline.
P.S. never brag about your pp/bp people will laugh at you.