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[gutter_trash]

I don't actually know a whole lot about them but Queen Elizabeth seems really wise when she speaks. I think I saw her lay the smackdown on Harper in a CBC article a while back and I was like god damn.

They seemed pretty good, judging from isidewith. I hope they get seats.

wise? like prematurely defending Gian Gomeshi than going on a drunken rant about Welcome Back Khadr?

 

[maharg]

While it may be premature to say that Muclair is merely Harper's left-wing counterpart, let's just say I won't be surprised to see the continued expansion of the PMO's powers if the NDP do form government.

Is there a party you don't expect that from? Some of the biggest expansions of PMO power have taken place under Liberal PMs. Including our current candidate's father.

 

[matthewwhatever]

Trudeau. Not that hard to say his name.

I'm not saying I believe this, but I guarantee people in the NDP and CPC don't believe the Liberals have the most sane platform. That's why the different parties have different platforms, because they believe in them.

As for Mulcair not mentioning Trudeau, it's a normal tactic used in elections with 3 parties. You target the guy in charge to make it look like it's really just between you two.

There's a vast difference between not mentioning someone, and going out of your way to not say their name. Mulcair is being as petty as Harper, except he's adding on ab extra layer of insult towards Liberal supporters at the same time, too.

While it may be premature to say that Muclair is merely Harper's left-wing counterpart, let's just say I won't be surprised to see the continued expansion of the PMO's powers if the NDP do form government.

Pretty much. Vowing to unilaterally turn a bicameral parliament into a unicameral one doesn't suggest he's big on having his power checked.

Out of curiosity, because they barely get mentioned ever here, what does everyone think of the Green Party?

I saw something on Twitter a month or two ago that had the perfect description of Elizabeth May: half the time she's the most impressive person in Parliament, but the other half of the time she sounds like she just removed a tinfoil hat. I'm glad she's an MP, because she brings some outstanding qualities to the table, but...yeah. She can be a little too crazy sometimes.

 

[SRG01]

Is there a party you don't expect that from? Some of the biggest expansions of PMO power have taken place under Liberal PMs. Including our current candidate's father.

I think the gradual expansion of the PMO/Cabinet's powers over several Parliaments is due to Canada not having a separately elected executive branch similar to the United States. This, of course, is a gradual erosion of what Parliament -- and the relationship between it and the cabinet -- is supposed to be: that the cabinet answers to Parliament, not the other way around.

Pretty much. Vowing to unilaterally turn a bicameral parliament into a unicameral one doesn't suggest he's big on having his power checked.

Well, that raises an interesting question: when was the last time the Senate was an effective check against Parliamentary power?

 

[The Power Of Snap]

Here in Quebec i think the bloc is gonna get a little better this time around with 5-10 districts, split between liberals and npd (20-30 each) and a naturally abysmal performance by the cons.

In the end i think it's gonna be a minority cons gov.

 

[KorrZ]

I can't believe

Spoiler

or maybe I can

how fast the hype for that died down. One day my Facebook feed was filled with it, then a few days later, there was nothing. Then a few weeks later, the guy who started the whole thing was busted for public masturbation.
Besides the youth not thinking it makes a difference, another thing is that it seems that they just don't care. I know most of my friends mostly don't give a crap who's running the country. I used to be like them, but the only reason I started thinking about politics is because I ended up reading a little more about it after joining GAF.

I think it's also a result of voting still being something where you very much have to be at a certain place at a certain time to cast your vote. I know plenty of people who care enough to talk about politics and complain about the government and would vote...but they don't care enough to try and make it out after working all day.

In 2015, there should be an easier way to vote.

 

[SRG01]

Not sure what the general strategy is here, but I don't think taking shots at the current government is going to win the Conservatives any votes in Alberta: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmon...dp-a-disaster-rejected-by-albertans-1.3179357 Surprisingly enough, I didn't see any recaps of Harper's Monday speech mention this point.

On Monday Harper called Alberta's new NDP government a failed experiment, a disaster uniformly rejected by Albertans.

In a speech entirely in French, the Conservative leader criticized the Alberta government at an early federal election stop in Quebec.

 

[Tiktaalik]

The NDP's election policy is to switch from First Past the Post to proportional representation, which would make it dramatically more difficult to create majorities. Even the party with the largest amount of seats would most likely require collaboration with other political parties in order to move their agenda forward.

It's hard to square this policy with some notion that the Mulcair and the NDP would centralize power as much as the Conservatives have.

 

[matthewwhatever]

Well, that raises an interesting question: when was the last time the Senate was an effective check against Parliamentary power?

They've rejected a few bills in the past year. They've become more and more partisan as the Conservative caucus has grown -- not to mention more and more willing to ignore rules -- but I don't think that means it's irreversibly broken. The Supreme Court ruled that the Senate was there for a reason and a necessary part of the legislative process. Unsurprisingly, I think that Trudeau's idea of making all Senators independent is a good way of doing that.

I think it's also a result of voting still being something where you very much have to be at a certain place at a certain time to cast your vote. I know plenty of people who care enough to talk about politics and complain about the government and would vote...but they don't care enough to try and make it out after working all day.

In 2015, there should be an easier way to vote.

There are. You can vote any week day between now and October 13th, or at any of the advance polls. You can also vote by mail. Your employer is also obligated to give you two hours to vote on election day. It's not as easy as voting in an internet poll, I guess, but it's not nearly as hard as you're making it out to be.

 

[Walpurgis]

wise? like prematurely defending Gian Gomeshi than going on a drunken rant about Welcome Back Khadr?

Like I said, I don't know much about her.

 

[Indicate]

So the Conservative Party of Canada's campaign team called me a few hours ago.

Lady: [condensed version from 1min.] Prime Minister Stephen Harper has been doing great for Canadians. We really can't let the NDP or Liberals win in the upcoming election. So we'd like to know if you'll be donating to the party?

Me: I'm actually voting for the NDP.

Lady: ...oh.

*lady hangs up*

I love how the whole time she assumed that I was a supporter.

 

[SRG01]

They've rejected a few bills in the past year. They've become more and more partisan as the Conservative caucus has grown -- not to mention more and more willing to ignore rules -- but I don't think that means it's irreversibly broken. The Supreme Court ruled that the Senate was there for a reason and a necessary part of the legislative process. Unsurprisingly, I think that Trudeau's idea of making all Senators independent is a good way of doing that.

Didn't he also propose to change the vetting process for appointing Senators, drawing upon different fields? Either way, independent senators is a great idea.

 

[jstripes]

Out of curiosity, because they barely get mentioned ever here, what does everyone think of the Green Party?

We've got three "left" parties against one, monolithic "right" party.

Green's out of consideration for that alone.

(Things were easier when there were two "right" parties.)

 

[catpurrcat]

Young people don't think their vote is worth anything, so they don't vote.

Imagine how left the results would skew if young people actually got out and voted?

Not sure about a left swing, but certainly different. I'm shocked by how many people in their 30s simply say "they're all bad so no point in voting", or who claim they are too busy.

 

[SRG01]

Apparently #HarperBlamesAlbertans is now trending on Canadian Twitter, haha. Nothing really funny on the hashtag though

 

[MMarston]

Not sure what the general strategy is here, but I don't think taking shots at the current government is going to win the Conservatives any votes in Alberta: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmon...dp-a-disaster-rejected-by-albertans-1.3179357 Surprisingly enough, I didn't see any recaps of Harper's Monday speech mention this point.

lol It's funny because him and Notley were acting as if they were completely cool with each other last month at the Stampede.

 

[maharg]

I think the gradual expansion of the PMO/Cabinet's powers over several Parliaments is due to Canada not having a separately elected executive branch similar to the United States. This, of course, is a gradual erosion of what Parliament -- and the relationship between it and the cabinet -- is supposed to be: that the cabinet answers to Parliament, not the other way around.

This seems like a suggestion that the cure is as bad as the poison to me. A true executive, as exists in the US, is vastly powerful in very similar ways to the current PMO. Each is also more constrained in various different ways.

And then you get into the issue, as with an elected senate, of having multiple legitimately elected bodies each with different constituencies and the endless deadlock that causes. I don't see how anyone ever looks at the US model as something to emulate. To me it seems an utter disaster.

 

[maharg]

Your employer is also obligated to give you two hours to vote on election day.

I think this needs clarification, because a lot of people read this wrong (not saying you don't know this, I just don't want anyone getting the wrong idea): They're required to have no less than 2 hours non-overlapping with your shift. That means if your shift wouldn't have overlapped anyways they don't really have to do anything.

Which still leaves things pretty difficult for people working two jobs.

IMO voting should be on a weekend, or the day should be a stat.

 

[SRG01]

This seems like a suggestion that the cure is as bad as the poison to me. A true executive, as exists in the US, is vastly powerful in very similar ways to the current PMO. Each is also more constrained in various different ways.

And then you get into the issue, as with an elected senate, of having multiple legitimately elected bodies each with different constituencies and the endless deadlock that causes. I don't see how anyone ever looks at the US model as something to emulate. To me it seems an utter disaster.

Personally, an elected Senate is a terrible idea, because it'll turn into another partisan arena when more non-partisan debates should be encouraged.

The only way I can think of to check Canadian Executive power in its current state is to reform Parliamentary procedure: abolishing speaking order along with party whips is a good way to start.

 

[Walpurgis]

Am I reading the Three Hundred Eight projection properly?

Not a single Con in all of Vancouver or Surrey? This surprises me (keeping in mind this is the first fed election I've paid attention to)

I thought Surrey had a large immigrant Indian population. They aren't voting conservative are they?

The radio ad is funny, because one voice asks 'what experience does Justin have in balancing the budget?'. If the budget officer is right, the conservative government will post another deficit for 2015. That will make for 8 years of consecutive deficits. So I would say Harper's governemnt isn't really the expert on the matter.

Oh my god. I knew it was bad but damn, I didn't know it was always bad. I seriously don't understand why a person would vote Conservative at this point. 8 years of deficit, corruption in office, ISIS propaganda and now a recession. Am I missing something?

I think it's also a result of voting still being something where you very much have to be at a certain place at a certain time to cast your vote. I know plenty of people who care enough to talk about politics and complain about the government and would vote...but they don't care enough to try and make it out after working all day.

In 2015, there should be an easier way to vote.

Being able to vote online would solve this but you would get anons and Americans messing shit up. I think it's worth a shot. It should at least be tried for municipal elections. An alternative would be to print out a voting card, fill it out and give it to someone else (a parent) to take to the polling station with your SIN or ID.

While it may be premature to say that Muclair is merely Harper's left-wing counterpart, let's just say I won't be surprised to see the continued expansion of the PMO's powers if the NDP do form government.

Mulcair does seem petty and bullheaded but I can't see him doing that because it would open the door for the Conservatives to really mess shit up if they ever saw the interior of the PMO again.

The NDP's election policy is to switch from First Past the Post to proportional representation, which would make it dramatically more difficult to create majorities. Even the party with the largest amount of seats would most likely require collaboration with other political parties in order to move their agenda forward.

It's hard to square this policy with some notion that the Mulcair and the NDP would centralize power as much as the Conservatives have.

Agreed. I think proportional representation will kill the Conservative party's chances at ever governing again. It would be nice to see an end to their U.S. style politics.

Didn't he also propose to change the vetting process for appointing Senators, drawing upon different fields? Either way, independent senators is a great idea.

I don't completely understand how the senate works but this seems like a sensible alternative to abolishing it due to its current flaws. If I understand things correctly, Mulcair would have to alter the constitution to abolish the senate and to do that he needs some provinces. The whole thing seems like a huge hassle and it would basically be irreversible. It makes sense to explore other options before going nuclear.

 

[Ondore]

Being able to vote online would solve this but you would get anons and Americans messing shit up. I think it's worth a shot. It should at least be tried for municipal elections. An alternative would be to print out a voting card, fill it out and give it to someone else (a parent) to take to the polling station with your SIN or ID.

Halifax actually tried online voting in 2012 for their municipal election. About 22% of voters used it but turnout was flat overall.

I wonder if a more engaged electorate would see higher numbers, though. GOTV efforts here are largely ignored.

 

[Walpurgis]

wise? like prematurely defending Gian Gomeshi than going on a drunken rant about Welcome Back Khadr?

Okay, so I watched the video with May saying that Omar Khadr had "more class than the entire fucking Conservative cabinet", and I didn't find anything wrong with it. I am happy to see her defending Khadr, especially after having his childhood taken away by the government. She still seems wise to me.

Halifax actually tried online voting in 2012 for their municipal election. About 22% of voters used it but turnout was flat overall.

I wonder if a more engaged electorate would see higher numbers, though. GOTV efforts here are largely ignored.

That's really shocking. I still think it's worth a try in other cities. Perhaps a few YouTube advertisements might make a difference.

 

[maharg]

Treating the symptom of low turnout will never really work (short of just making it mandatory, anyways). You have to fix why people disengage in the first place. There's also not really any evidence that the results would change that much just from a rise in turnout. Even if younger people are, say, 10 points more likely to vote a left-leaning party that probably still only amounts to a point or two of actual swing overall.

 

[Silexx]

Is there a party you don't expect that from? Some of the biggest expansions of PMO power have taken place under Liberal PMs. Including our current candidate's father.

I dunno, maybe the Green Party? But yeah, the expansion of the PMO has been a consistent trend since Trudeau (the father).

 

[Tiktaalik]

Out of curiosity, because they barely get mentioned ever here, what does everyone think of the Green Party?

I'm a passionate environmentalist but at the moment too interested in unseating the Conservatives to vote for the Greens. With our FPTP system, electing more Greens simply splits the Left seat count more.

If the NDP win and implement their promise of proportional representation, then the Greens would receive a substantial seat bump and people could vote purely based on policies instead of strategy and we'd see more Greens in parliament. With these facts in mind I think people thinking of voting Green should vote NDP to get Canada to switch over to a proportional representation system.

Also worth noting: There is no longer any public funds tied to votes, so the Greens won't benefit from a vote unless they win the seat.

 

[Walpurgis]

I dunno, maybe the Green Party? But yeah, the expansion of the PMO has been a consistent trend since Trudeau (the father).

Didn't Trudeau do that because a bunch of Quebec terrorists were bombing everything and killed a politician (or took him hostage)? Unless you are referring to something else.

 

[Stet]

Didn't Trudeau do that because a bunch of Quebec terrorists were bombing everything and killed a politician (or took him hostage)? Unless you are referring to something else.

Took a politician hostage. Killed a bystander with a trashcan bomb.

Edit- Oh, right, Pierre Laporte. Oops.

 

[Tiktaalik]

I thought Surrey had a large immigrant Indian population. They aren't voting conservative are they?

Sure they are. Many new immigrants come from countries that are more socially conservative than ours and are conservative leaning.

Edit: More relevant than new immigrants however is the fact that Surrey is a sprawling, low density suburb full of families. This is the exact market that Conservative policies are targeted towards.

 

[lacinius]

That's really shocking. I still think it's worth a try in other cities. Perhaps a few YouTube advertisements might make a difference.

Sorry, but under Harper's Fair Elections Act, Elections Canada is now no longer allowed to advertise that Canadians should get out and vote.

 

[Walpurgis]

Sure they are. Many new immigrants come from countries that are more socially conservative than ours and are conservative leaning.

Edit: More relevant than new immigrants however is the fact that Surrey is a sprawling, low density suburb full of families. This is the exact market that Conservative policies are targeted towards.

It's just that the Conservatives are anti-immigration which is directly opposed to their interests. There was also Harper's comments on the niqab and "violent cultures" which should piss off Sikhs and Muslims.

Sorry, but under Harper's Fair Elections Act, Elections Canada is now no longer allowed to advertise that Canadians should get out and vote.

 

[Enter the Dragon Punch]

Psst, hey kids. Wanna build communism?

 

[gutter_trash]

Sorry, but under Harper's Fair Elections Act, Elections Canada is now no longer allowed to advertise that Canadians should get out and vote.

What?

Cons have sunk to an all new low

 

[killer rin]

I think it's also a result of voting still being something where you very much have to be at a certain place at a certain time to cast your vote. I know plenty of people who care enough to talk about politics and complain about the government and would vote...but they don't care enough to try and make it out after working all day.

In 2015, there should be an easier way to vote.

Well, there was actually suppose to be trials for Online Voting back in 2013 during the bi-elections the last 2 years to determine if Online Voting could be a useful method of voting for this election, but because of the budget cuts they had to scrap it.

Elections Canada drops plan for online voting due to cuts.

Sorry, but under Harper's Fair Elections Act, Elections Canada is now no longer allowed to advertise that Canadians should get out and vote.

Oh yeah, I almost forgot about that. I remember being so mad when I initially read this. Such a stupid restriction.

 

[gutter_trash]

Psst, hey kids. Wanna build communism?

The Communist Party scored less than 0.02% in the past two elections. I fail to see why fringe parties that get less than 0.1% are even included in the quiz

 

[mo60]

Apparently #HarperBlamesAlbertans is now trending on Canadian Twitter, haha. Nothing really funny on the hashtag though

I'm laughing at some of the posts on that hashtag.

 

[maharg]

Didn't Trudeau do that because a bunch of Quebec terrorists were bombing everything and killed a politician (or took him hostage)? Unless you are referring to something else.

No, his use of the WMA is not what's being referred to here. Though for that brief moment, he certainly had accumulated effectively all the power there is to accumulate in the PMO's office, and at peace time no less.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_of_the_Prime_Minister_(Canada)#History might be a good starting point for learning more, but is sadly rather lacking in citations. Much of the constitutional and political landscape of this country was basically originally defined by PET, including the centralization of power away from parliament and the instruments of the crown (the latter culminating in the constitution itself).

 

[MMarston]

The Communist Party scored less than 0.02% in the past two elections. I fail to see why fringe parties that get less than 0.1% are even included in the quiz

I think another thing people don't realize about the quiz is when you click compare your answers to the party policies, a good chunk of them say "Sorry, we couldn't determine the party's stance on this issue" and it just assumes the party disagrees with you.

 

[Walpurgis]

Well, there was actually suppose to be trials for Online Voting back in 2013 during the bi-elections the last 2 years to determine if Online Voting could be a useful method of voting for this election, but because of the budget cuts they had to scrap it.

Elections Canada drops plan for online voting due to cuts.


Oh yeah, I almost forgot about that. I remember being so mad when I initially read this. Such a stupid restriction.

Wow. I didn't know that we were so close. I thought they would be like how my parents are afraid of entering their credit cards on the internet. I guess Harper cut funding as revenge for busting his cheating ass.

 

[Stage On]

Are any parties actually against the Trans-Pacific Partnership or are we pretty much screwed on that front?

Urg just read that the Liberals voted for the Canada-China Foreign Investment Promotion and Protection Act (FIPA).... Between that and them also supporting Bill C-51 there is no way I could in good conscious vote for them.

 

[excelsiorlef]

What?

Cons have sunk to an all new low

It's super villain brilliant really.

Young folks vote less than old and when they do vote it's generally not for Conservatives, so if you stop encouraging people to vote you end up with less people voting against you.

 

[gutter_trash]

I think another thing people don't realize about the quiz is when you click compare your answers to the party policies, a good chunk of them say "Sorry, we couldn't determine the party's stance on this issue" and it just assumes the party disagrees with you.

the CBC usually does better with their Vote Compass:
http://www.votecompass.com/

we will have to wait for it to be updated for this current Federal election

 

[Walpurgis]

No, his use of the WMA is not what's being referred to here. Though for that brief moment, he certainly had accumulated effectively all the power there is to accumulate in the PMO's office, and at peace time no less.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_of_the_Prime_Minister_(Canada)#History might be a good starting point for learning more, but is sadly rather lacking in citations. Much of the constitutional and political landscape of this country was basically originally defined by PET, including the centralization of power away from parliament and the instruments of the crown (the latter culminating in the constitution itself).

Hmmm. If Trudeau needed to do that to get things like the Charter of Rights and Freedoms then I would say that it was worth it. I don't think the stuff after Trudeau was necessary, especially Martin's increasing the salaries of PMO workers. That's just shady.

In general, I think the PMO should be able to direct the country but not completely control it so there should be safe blocks in place, in case one starts making objectively bad decisions like "trickle down economics" or goes rogue (even if they have a majority). The Supreme Court seems to have been doing a good job of that but I think the Senate should have been doing that too but from what I understand, they just sit on their asses all day.

 

[killer rin]

Wow. I didn't know that we were so close. I thought they would be like how my parents are afraid of entering their credit cards on the internet. I guess Harper cut funding as revenge for busting his cheating ass.

Well, I'm pretty sure that even if the trials came up as a success, they would have to go through parliament to get passed... and we all know how that would end up.

But even then, Online Voting isn't for your Parents/Grandparents who are terrified of computers, or can't even trust their credit card to Amazon, its for the Youth and people who have grown up with technology who know the risk, and either don't care or trust what they are doing. Its one of many tools which can and should be utilized in fixing our electoral system

 

[Walpurgis]

Well, I'm pretty sure that even if the trials came up as a success, they would have to go through parliament to get passed... and we all know how that would end up.

But even then, Online Voting isn't for your Parents/Grandparents who are terrified of computers, or can't even trust their credit card to Amazon, its for the Youth and people who have grown up with technology who know the risk, and either don't care or trust what they are doing. Its one of many tools which can and should be utilized in fixing our electoral system

I meant that I thought the government would be too scared of hackers influencing a federal election like how my parents are afraid of hackers snatching their credit cards.

 

[Stage On]

Sorry, but under Harper's Fair Elections Act, Elections Canada is now no longer allowed to advertise that Canadians should get out and vote.

The more I hear about that act the more and more I feel like it's name was intentionally ironic. How that got thought with so little buzz about it in the news is beyond me. I only learned about it after the fact and was totally disgusted.

 

[killer rin]

I meant that I thought the government would be too scared of hackers influencing a federal election like how my parents are afraid of hackers snatching their credit cards.

Ah, oops.

That said, one of my favorite mental/research topics I like to use when bored is how a potential Online Voting system could work. Its definitely doable, you just have to be smart about how you implement it to get around people who would want to mess with it. Its a fun mental topic, you just take it one problem/solution at a time.

 

[MMarston]

Kind of related but, according to an upcoming book, this is most likely Harper's last fed election, win or lose. Dunno if it was already brought up.

(Not set in stone of course.)

The longest federal election campaign in modern Canadian history is ultimately to be Stephen Harper's last as Conservative leader, win or lose, a new book says. The biography from Globe and Mail journalist John Ibbitson, simply titled "Stephen Harper," quotes people close to the prime minister as saying that Harper won't run again if the Conservatives win a government, whether minority or majority.

"Winning conditions were within reach if he campaigned well and a couple of the breaks came his way," Ibbitson writes. "He thought he could land a solid minority government, maybe even a slim majority. Either way, he wasn't planning on staying around much longer, those close to him believe."

If the Tories form a minority government, Harper is likely to wait a year before announcing his departure. Ibbitson writes. A majority would delay the announcement by a year. Harper would wait until midway through another four-year mandate to give a successor some leeway. If the Conservatives fall into the opposition benches after Oct. 19, Ibbitson writes that Harper will resign almost immediately.

The book was to come out in September, but the early election call led to it being released early as an e-book. A print version will be available on Aug. 18.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/win...ther-federal-election-new-book-says-1.3179214

 

[gutter_trash]

that nationalist pandering

 

[lacinius]

Well, I'm pretty sure that even if the trials came up as a success, they would have to go through parliament to get passed... and we all know how that would end up.

Actually... under Harper's Fair Elections Act, even a trial project to test a form of electronic voting at the federal level, now requires approval from both the House of Commons and the Senate.

 

[killer rin]

Actually... under Harper's Fair Elections Act, even a trial project to test a form of electronic voting at the federal level, now requires approval from both the House of Commons and the Senate.

I knew I was remembering that from somewhere. I spent a good 20 minutes going over news sources trying to find something to back it up, but had to cut it from my post because I couldn't find anything. Glad to see I'm not going crazy.

Spoiler

Thanks!