• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

3 British ISIS brides that flew into Syria reportedly on the run from their husbands

Status
Not open for further replies.
This.

They either heard what ISIS represents and chose not to believe it or they knew what they are and what they do and still chose to go.

Either way they made a choice and are responsible for their own actions.

I think stories like theirs are a good way to discourage people like themselves from going out there; clearly what the media reports about ISIS does not serve as a deterrent for many so its up to the fools that go there and regret it to spread the word amongst their communities.

There is a third option, that they were convinced by the recruiters that what they were hearing and seeing in the media wasn't a true representation of what IS is doing? That it was essentially western propaganda and mostly lies?

Let's not forget that these recruiters work day and night once they have someone hooked. They will funnel them to affiliate sites that 'claim' to tell the true story, much like right wing sites that take stories out of all context and present a very selected and warp message.
 

Khaz

Member
If I don't remove myself from this thread I'll never leave.

Sorry for being such an asshole everyone I just feel really strongly about this.

My final thoughts are this:

Terror crimes and sentences should be reserved for real terror criminals, not 15 year old girls who are trying to escape from ISIS because they made the worst mistake of their lives...I mean even if it was really based on "we want to kill americans" it would change my stance a little (thats the kind of thing being 15 doesnt save you from)...but they joined as wives and are trying to escape...they didnt know...

We really need someone to break down what an ISIS propaganda video says

You're fighting the good fight. The amount of hate in this thread is staggering.

They have more than one propaganda. One is aimed at the west, with terror images, and the other is aimed at potential recruits, and paint a very different picture of life under daesh.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...o-present-caliphate-as-a-utopia-10121653.html

http://abcnews.go.com/International...cated-prolific-us-officials/story?id=30888982

These girls should be rescued.
 

darscot

Member
Joining isis is a crime. Yes or no?

Yes, because it is giving material support to a terrorist organization.

First we need a clear definition of joining. If I join ISIS with the intention of stopping the barbaric behavior and turning them to a peaceful Islamic religious group, is that a crime? Its not so black and white. Filling out an online membership? Does that make me a terrorist? Traveling to Syria? What exactly does it mean to join? Attending a mosque that members of ISIS also attend? If I donate my time to a Islamic charity, and find out its actually funneling ISIS so I quit and go home, does that make me a member? Is it once you learn the secret handshake?
 

Jezbollah

Member
First we need a clear definition of joining. If I join ISIS with the intention of stopping the barbaric behavior and turning them to a peaceful Islamic religious group, is that a crime? Its not so black and white. Filling out an online membership? Does that make me a terrorist? Traveling to Syria? What exactly does it mean to join? Attending a mosque that members of ISIS also attend? If I donate my time to a Islamic charity, and find out its actually funneling ISIS so I quit and go home, does that make me a member? Is it once you learn the secret handshake?

They may have not have broken any laws if they went over to ISIS to marry, but the three people in question have made quite a few ill advised social media posts, so at the very least if they manage to get back they will face questioning over those acts in addition to anything else.
 
They may have not have broken any laws if they went over to ISIS to marry, but the three people in question have made quite a few ill advised social media posts, so at the very least if they manage to get back they will face questioning over those acts in addition to anything else.

I'd imagine traveling to Syria to be brides of ISIS fighters, would easily follow under the Uk's terrorism laws on supporting proscribed groups, which is enough to be charged for terrorist offenses. If the UK would want to follow through with it is another matter.
 
First we need a clear definition of joining. If I join ISIS with the intention of stopping the barbaric behavior and turning them to a peaceful Islamic religious group, is that a crime? Its not so black and white. Filling out an online membership? Does that make me a terrorist? Traveling to Syria? What exactly does it mean to join? Attending a mosque that members of ISIS also attend? If I donate my time to a Islamic charity, and find out its actually funneling ISIS so I quit and go home, does that make me a member? Is it once you learn the secret handshake?

If you are going to say crap like that, I'm outta here. Lol

I'll just say that's why we have judges and juries. I'm not saying they even did anything worth a prison sentence but they should a least be brought to court to find out. I think that is reasonable.
 

darscot

Member
If you are going to say crap like that, I'm outta here. Lol

I'll just say that's why we have judges and juries. I'm not saying they even did anything worth a prison sentence but they should a least be brought to court to find out. I think that is reasonable.

Have you heard of Oscar Schindler? He was a member of the Nazi party. I guess he was an evil terrorist. I have no problem with these girls standing trial for any crime their country sees fit. I know if they where my daughters I would make damn sure I got some assurances that they would get a proper trial and not end up in some prison in Cuba. Being they are from the UK I'm confident they will get a proper trial. Making stupid posts on social media is crime these days?
 

Mikey Jr.

Member
Even if they come home, how would anyone trust them?

They are ISIS supporters. They want anyone who is non muslim dead.

They should not be allowed back. Period.
 

blackjaw

Member
Sleep with the pigs and you're going to stink.

I don't think anyone, bar their families, want them back in Great Britain.
 
D

Deleted member 309291

Unconfirmed Member
Geez, thank god everything went alright for me. Because when I was 16 I just couldn't choose which terrorist organization to join. Close call!
 

Dennis

Banned
Hey GAF, remember being 16 and joining a terrorist organization that kills, tortures, rapes and sells children into sexual slavery?

Yeah, me neither.
 

Sijil

Member
I can't muster any sympathy, they willingly joined an organization lead by a lunatic that has massacred thousands of my own people. If this is some form of divine justice playing out then so be it.
 
Have you heard of Oscar Schindler? He was a member of the Nazi party. I guess he was an evil terrorist. I have no problem with these girls standing trial for any crime their country sees fit. I know if they where my daughters I would make damn sure I got some assurances that they would get a proper trial and not end up in some prison in Cuba. Being they are from the UK I'm confident they will get a proper trial. Making stupid posts on social media is crime these days?

I lied, I'm not outta here. This is too good.

Yes, I've heard of Oscar Schindler.

I'm going to got out on a limb and say they are not like Oscar Schindler.

Are you a professional "devil's advocate"? You've brought up notion that they might join isis to make it more peaceful and now use Schindler as another example of why they might be innocent. Wow.
 
I can only wish that they have escaped and managed to get back to London.

For the police to turn up at their door and deport them back.

There is no excuse for leaving to become a wife to known terrorists who plan on killing innocent people if possible.
 

Morrigan Stark

Arrogant Smirk
Did you join any terrorist organizations with the intent to become a glorified concubine when you were 16, because I surely didn't. This goes well beyond the normal category of "Stupid shit teens do".
Indeed.

You guys are all fucking idiots if you think they are evil and wanted to join evil. [...]
But either way grow the fuck up assholes.
Yikes. Settle down will you?

You think that because you read something and believed it that you know better than them?
Yes.

They chose to believe the other side of the story.
That's what makes them stupid. If they were 10 or at the most 12, I'd feel more sympathetic. But 16 and growing up in the UK? Please.

If what you (impersonal you here) hear about a group from a wide array of media sources is that they're genocidal, misogynist monsters and terrorists, and you just choose to believe "the other side" without evidence, that makes you appallingly stupid. I mean I can understand giving the benefit of doubt, you might think "this could just be propaganda to make them look bad". But when the charges are so monstrous, you'd still, you know, investigate, just in case, maybe? And then see that ISIS publishes beheading videos themselves, and that the evidence of their atrocities is overwhelming. And then you'd go "ummm better not risk it in case there's a hint of truth to it", yes?

Unless, of course, you're a very stupid person, in which case yeah, you might choose to plug your ears, go "LA-LA can't hear you!", and then go out of your way to fly out of your country and not even investigate the claims against them, but actually join and marry into this group. You have enough low cunning and worldliness to travel to a dangerous war-torn country by yourself, unaccompanied by an adult, so clearly you aren't a completely helpless ignorant child being swept away by events beyond your control. Yet you choose to use this low cunning to join the most infamous terrorist group of our age. Yeah... OK. The complete and utter lack of critical thinking on display is nothing short of staggering.

I'm sure you're right in that they were rationalizing everything and were being lied to, but that doesn't make them less stupid. You might argue they could still deserve sympathy, but I'd have to disagree there. Empathy, maybe. Sympathy? Very debatable.

If propaganda was that black and white, as some of you are referring to it as, WWII would have never happened because the german people should have been like "no, we are not joining your evil organization"

but guess what a whole fucking country of pretty smart people was fooled.
Why are they not comparable? It's a tyrannical organization brainwashing people into thinking they're fighting for a cause while unknowingly pushing a terrible agenda for the highest officials. Give me a legit reason that I can't compare them the way I am.
Context and circumstances matter here. People living in WW2-era Germany did not have access to the Internet. Many lived harshly through the depression and economic sanctions of post-WW1, information was controlled far more rigidly, the nazis were good at hiding their crimes (they didn't brag about it on videos that they published themselves) from both their own people and the outside world, they were oppressing their own people living there, and so on. Even during WW2 I don't know of many Jews or other minorities from outside of Germany who decided, hey, Nazi Germany sounds awesome, let's go there and join them and possibly marry their allegedly genocidal and SS leaders.
 

darscot

Member
I lied, I'm not outta here. This is too good.

Yes, I've heard of Oscar Schindler.

I'm going to got out on a limb and say they are not like Oscar Schindler.

Are you a professional "devil's advocate"? You've brought up notion that they might join isis to make it more peaceful and now use Schindler as another example of why they might be innocent. Wow.

I don't think they are in any way Oscar Schindler either. My point was just joining is not a crime and there are people that may join an organization like this to try and make change. I was not attempting to compare them to him. Just more the point of people going of the deep end, with the fuck them and ban them from Europe. I think they may be innocent for any number of reasons. They also may be guilty, just people need to chill and realize there are a lot of possibilities. The hate is exactly what ISIS wants. People are just so blind and quick to conviction. Someone like Schindler would have never been remembered for who he really was when so many people just blindly believe with so little facts and evidence. I did not intend to disrespect Oscar Schindler.
 

AxelFoley

Member
There is a point to where "There just kids" can be applied. Leaving their homes to become brides for a known terrorist group who laugh at the notion of woman's rights or freedom and then wanting to back off after they see what reality is does not make me that sympathetic.


Bingo.
 

velociraptor

Junior Member
Are these girls suffering from a mental disorder? What compelled them to join ISIS? I would be very interested to actually hear this from the girls themselves.

It's truly sad when someone throws away their life like this. But maybe it isn't sad. Maybe it's karma. Too bad ISIS are getting away with their barbarism. That thread on sex slavery made me sick. Normally I wouldn't advocate this but can someone please bomb the shit out of them?
 
I don't think they are in any way Oscar Schindler either. My point was just joining is not a crime and there are people that may join an organization like this to try and make change. I was not attempting to compare them to him. Just more the point of people going of the deep end, with the fuck them and ban them from Europe. I think they may be innocent for any number of reasons. They also may be guilty, just people need to chill and realize there are a lot of possibilities. The hate is exactly what ISIS wants. People are just so blind and quick to conviction. Someone like Schindler would have never been remembered for who he really was when so many people just blindly believe with so little facts and evidence. I did not intend to disrespect Oscar Schindler.

Actually. Joining Is a crime in the UK.

Let me repeat that just incase you don't understand.

Joining a terrorist organisation is against the law and a punishable offence.

Leaving the UK to join ISIS is against the law and a punishable offence, regardless of intent to cause harm or not.

There is no grey area here.

If they return they deserve jail time at the minimum. Deportation back to ISIS would be preferred though.

I personally would rather my tax money go to people who are in genuine need of help. Not fucking idiots who think that joining a terrorist organisation is a 'lol I'm just a teen yolo' moment.

They actively choose to go there. They didn't need to a pick any sides. But they did. They don't deserve to get away with it.
 

darscot

Member
Actually. Joining Is a crime in the UK.

Let me repeat that just incase you don't understand.

Joining a terrorist organisation is against the law and a punishable offence.

Leaving the UK to join ISIS is against the law and a punishable offence, regardless of intent to cause harm or not.

There is no grey area here.

If they return they deserve jail time at the minimum. Deportation back to ISIS would be preferred though.

I guess I need to be clear on my point, your government can make this type of law or at least they can try. The reality of this type of law is it is almost impossible to actually convict someone of the act of simple joining. There is a completely grey area in this as there is in all such issues. The definition of joining is a legal cluster fuck in itself especially if you actually take no part in any illegal activity Maybe the UK has changed a great deal but I was still under the impression you can come and go as you please and are basically a modern free society. All nations have a tonne of ridiculous laws that would never stand a chance in a courtroom.
 
I don't think they are in any way Oscar Schindler either. My point was just joining is not a crime and there are people that may join an organization like this to try and make change. I was not attempting to compare them to him. Just more the point of people going of the deep end, with the fuck them and ban them from Europe. I think they may be innocent for any number of reasons. They also may be guilty, just people need to chill and realize there are a lot of possibilities. The hate is exactly what ISIS wants. People are just so blind and quick to conviction. Someone like Schindler would have never been remembered for who he really was when so many people just blindly believe with so little facts and evidence. I did not intend to disrespect Oscar Schindler.

I think I know what you are trying to say but regardless it is against the law to join isis. This is US law. If the UK is different I'm sorry.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2339B

(1) Unlawful conduct.— Whoever knowingly provides material support or resources to a foreign terrorist organization, or attempts or conspires to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 15 years, or both, and, if the death of any person results, shall be imprisoned for any term of years or for life. To violate this paragraph, a person must have knowledge that the organization is a designated terrorist organization (as defined in subsection (g)(6)), that the organization has engaged or engages in terrorist activity (as defined in section 212(a)(3)(B) of the Immigration and Nationality Act), or that the organization has engaged or engages in terrorism (as defined in section 140(d)(2) of the Foreign Relations Authorization Act, Fiscal Years 1988 and 1989).

(b) Definitions.— As used in this section—
(1) the term “material support or resources” means any property, tangible or intangible, or service, including currency or monetary instruments or financial securities, financial services, lodging, training, expert advice or assistance, safehouses, false documentation or identification, communications equipment, facilities, weapons, lethal substances, explosives, personnel (1 or more individuals who may be or include oneself), and transportation, except medicine or religious materials

We can argue all those points in a trial but my understanding is they would have violated US law by joining.

Edit: looks like Souldestroyer Reborn took care of that UK bit for me. Thx.
 

Wthermans

Banned
Sad for the families and now for these girls who are regretting their decision to rush into a society of gang rape, abuse, and being treated like animals by animals. Sad sad sad.
 

darscot

Member
I think I know what you are trying to say but regardless it is against the law to join isis. This is US law. If the UK is different I'm sorry.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2339B





We can argue all those points in a trial but my understanding is they would have violated US law by joining.

So would be becoming a wife or sex slave meet those requirements? I personally do not believe that being a 15 year old dumb ass is exactly expert assistance. I guess they could try and get them on the communication because they posted on social media but you guys have to admit that is pretty fucking thin.
 
So would be becoming a wife or sex slave meet those requirements? I personally do not believe that being a 15 year old dumb ass is exactly expert assistance. I guess they could try and get them on the communication because they posted on social media but you guys have to admit that is pretty fucking thin.

Nothing is thin.

The law states that it is illegal to join a terrorist organisation.

These girls left for a specific reason, the reason being to join a terrorist organisation by becoming wives to their soldiers.

It doesn't matter if they joined to be cooks, sex slaves, opera singers, cleaners, hairdressers, accountants, social networkers etc. the fact of the matter is, they are a part of the organisation.

Once again. There is no grey area here. It's as black and white as it can be.
 
So would be becoming a wife or sex slave meet those requirements? I personally do not believe that being a 15 year old dumb ass is exactly expert assistance. I guess they could try and get them on the communication because they posted on social media but you guys have to admit that is pretty fucking thin.

That's what the legal system is for.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying we should lock them up and throw away the key but it is a crime and I'm OK with that being a crime.
 

darscot

Member
Nothing is thin.

The law states that it is illegal to join a terrorist organisation.

These girls left for a specific reason, the reason being to join a terrorist organisation by becoming wives to their soldiers.

Once again. There is no grey area here. It's as black and white as it can be.

My comment was to the US Law posted and my reading of that they would not qualify as providing "material support or resources". I understand your point, they slept with the enemy fuck them. Lets just leave it at that and agree to disagree.
 
I'm also OK with them going to trial and not getting anything but a slap on the wrist if they are show to be nothing but a couple of dumb teenagers.

Hell, maybe we find out that they were coerced into joining. Either way I don't think laws banning joining terrorist groups are making it so we can't come and go as we please in a modern free society.
 

darscot

Member
I'm also OK with them going to trial and not getting anything but a slap on the wrist if they are show to be nothing but a couple of dumb teenagers.

Hell, maybe we find out that they were coerced into joining. Either way I don't think laws banning joining terrorist groups are making it so we can't come and go as we please in a modern free society.

The law posted has nothing to do with joining, it specifically states you must "knowingly" provide "material support or resources". So you are actually complete free to go join so long as you don't provide material support or resources.
 

charsace

Member
Tough shit for them. Now people are going to want to waste resources helping them when they were dumb enough to go there of their own free will.
 

NCR Redslayer

NeoGAF's Vegeta
I'm also OK with them going to trial and not getting anything but a slap on the wrist if they are show to be nothing but a couple of dumb teenagers.

Hell, maybe we find out that they were coerced into joining. Either way I don't think laws banning joining terrorist groups are making it so we can't come and go as we please in a modern free society.
Wel froml the fact that the internet exists, reality is much different from that.
 
The law posted has nothing to do with joining, it specifically states you must "knowingly" provide "material support or resources". So you are actually complete free to go join so long as you don't provide material support or resources.

What were they going over there for? To watch the fighting? You don't really believe a wife of a terrorist has no involvement at all? They just went over there for a husband.

BTW, conspiring to do a crime is a crime. I don't actually have to rob a bank to get thrown into jail. They just have to prove that I intended to rob it.

Edit: Who the hell joins a group without the intent to support it in some way?
 

darscot

Member
What were they going over there for? To watch the fighting? You don't really believe a wife of a terrorist has no involvement at all? They just went over there for a husband.

BTW, conspiring to do a crime is a crime. I don't actually have to rob a bank to get thrown into jail. They just have to prove that I intended to rob it.

Just watch the video around the 15 minute mark. Don't take my word for it.
 

Frodo

Member
I'm kind of divided in this one... I dunno, its like... stealing your parents car in the middle of the night for a ride with friends is one of the stupid things kids do when they are on their teens. Leaving the country, crossing a border towards a war zone to marry IS militants (consequently joining a terrorist "organization") is something else all together.

They must have realised that by now. I just wonder what will happen to them if they ever get back.
 

charsace

Member
So many pleasant individuals in this thread.

This isn't a case of them being kidnapped. This is a case of people signing up with a cult that wants to cleanse the world. If ISIS goal didn't scare them away then the fact that they rape and brutalize every female they get their hands on should have. Now this has become a story and when something like this becomes a story people will want to waste manpower and resources trying to help 3 idiots who willingly signed up for genocide when there are thousands imprisoned by ISIS. These girls found their way to ISIS now let them find their way away from ISIS.
 
They must have realised that by now. I just wonder what will happen to them if they ever get back.

They will be given immunity to a prison sentence. But it would seem that their circumstances have changed since one of them if not all are married to ISIS fighters
 
Just watch the video around the 15 minute mark. Don't take my word for it.

What? That they won't change them with anything if they come back because they have no evidence that they participated in any terrorist activities? I'm OK with that.

Or are you just saying that you can join and it's not a crime? Because if that's what you are saying I would caution anyone from trying that.
 
This isn't a case of them being kidnapped. This is a case of people signing up with a cult that wants to cleanse the world. If ISIS goal didn't scare them away then the fact that they rape and brutalize every female they get their hands on should have. Now this has become a story and when something like this becomes a story people will want to waste manpower and resources trying to help 3 idiots who willingly signed up for genocide when there are thousands imprisoned by ISIS. These girls found their way to ISIS now let them find their way away from ISIS.

Yes, wasting man-hours on trying to secure 3 British girls who made the absolute worst decision of their lives, when they could instead be wasting man-hours stuff that isn't life and fucking death for 3 teenagers(and you best believe, man-hours and resources are constantly being wasted).

I don't care how fucked their logic was at the time, It's like horrible life decisions and second chances don't exist with some of you people.
 

charsace

Member
Yes, wasting man-hours on trying to secure 3 British girls who made the absolute worst decision of their lives, when they could instead be wasting man-hours stuff that isn't life and fucking death for 3 teenagers(and you best believe, man-hours and resources are constantly being wasted).

I don't care how fucked their logic was at the time, It's like horrible life decisions and second chances don't exist with some of you people.

So you're fine with the possibility that people would probably die helping them? Because I am not ok with people dying while trying to save traitors.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom