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Toonami |SepOct17| 1 + 1 = YEAH!

C

caliph95

Member
Watching Dragon Ball Super

Geez this episode is rough visually, this is not the best animated episode

Everybody bagging on Champagne gives me life

Jeez the Z fighters are such racist against Frost demons
 
Y

YoodiHoshi

Member
cntr said:
Well, since we're probably gonna talk about this either way: the blame for how awful last night's Jojo episode was lies solely with David Pro.

The manga doesn't do a shower pan-up shot like the anime did. Aside from one moment, which is clearly meant to be shocking and weird in context (and a reference to Psycho), Araki completely avoids showing her body. She's always framed in a close-up, there's no shots of her butt like in the anime, and you don't get those creeper shots from Strength's POV. Yeah, it's still creepy and weird, but it's the horror kind of creepy and weird. It's not fanservice.

The blame for making it so awful lies solely with David Pro and the episode director, and the anime industry for being fucked up. Not with Araki or Jojo. If it puts you off the show, that's fine, but it's still worth reading the manga. And, honestly, the adaptation has so many issues in general that I'm pretty sure SDC would be a lot more popular here if people were going off the manga rather than the anime.

(...yet another addition to the pile of reasons why anime is trash and manga is the good shit.)
Click to expand...
QFT/bump
The feelings presented here toward that latest JoJo episode are perfectly apt.

Although, it astounds me whenever people point out how bothered they are by the flipping ceiling fan scene and nothing else, of all the things
Ashby said:
Jotaro is so fucking boring. If Joseph got impaled by a ceiling fan he would have screamed like a girl and it would have been hilarious. This jabronis too cool for school act is so lame.
Click to expand...

I'll have you know that Jonathan also hardly had a reaction to that one bent spear being lodged into his shoulder by Vampire Dio.
Jotaro having serious, annoyed, and/or non-reactions to all the crazy shit around him
kinda like, say, Nico Robin
just makes SDC that much more funny/campy in my view

(I think it also helps when you acknowledge just how old Stardust Crusaders really is - when it comes to just about everything it offers.)
 
S

Seda

Member
cntr said:
Well, since we're probably gonna talk about this either way: the blame for how awful last night's Jojo episode was lies solely with David Pro.

The manga doesn't do a shower pan-up shot like the anime did. Aside from one moment, which is clearly meant to be shocking and weird in context (and a reference to Psycho), Araki completely avoids showing her body. She's always framed in a close-up, there's no shots of her butt like in the anime, and you don't get those creeper shots from Strength's POV. Yeah, it's still creepy and weird, but it's the horror kind of creepy and weird. It's not fanservice.

The blame for making it so awful lies solely with David Pro and the episode director, and the anime industry for being fucked up. Not with Araki or Jojo. If it puts you off the show, that's fine, but it's still worth reading the manga. And, honestly, the adaptation has so many issues in general that I'm pretty sure SDC would be a lot more popular here if people were going off the manga rather than the anime.

(...yet another addition to the pile of reasons why anime is trash and manga is the good shit.)
Click to expand...

Yeah, the whole horror and vulnerability angle is sensible and has been done before but the number of shots the undressed girl was in was almost comical. Not surprised the anime played that aspect up. I'm also not certain why the girl was written to be a preteen - I guess that makes her even /more/ vulnerable? hm, whatever
 
C

cntr

Banned
The runaway girl was probably forced on Araki by the editors to fill in the Poco and Smokey role, since that's a thing Jump did back then. Even FotNS had kid characters, heh.

And then he decided to use the horror and vulnerability thing, since well, Araki's a big horror fan.
It's an idea he uses again, though thankfully the anime kept the fanservice out of it.
 
R

Raxus

Member
caliph95 said:
Watching Dragon Ball Super

Geez this episode is rough visually, this is not the best animated episode

Everybody bagging on Champagne gives me life

Jeez the Z fighters are such racist against Frost demons
Click to expand...

The animation quality improves but it is still Toei quality (tm) even up to recent episodes. That aside it is still a ton of fun to watch
 
R

Raxus

Member
It was also pretty fun watching the JoJo episode featuring Strength with friends. They laughed out loud when he came out with the captain uniform.
 
C

cntr

Banned
Probably worth reposting this and this from ArchedThunder in the dub OT:

ArchedThunder said:
Lesson time.
Dragon Ball is owned by a combination of Toei, Shueisha, Bird Studio, Bandai and Fuji TV, all parties have a say. Early numbers for F and it's merchandise were really big and the production committee for the movie decided they wanted a new TV series to sell merch. Buu Kai was ending in July of that year so presumably it was decided that was when the new show would start, one problem, July was only a few months away. The earliest production material I can find is expression sheets for characters dated March 30th, 2015, which lines up pretty well with when the F merch started coming out. At best the series had 4 months (possibly only 3) from start of preproduction to airing, which is less than half of what a show should have. Keep in mind this isn't all Toei's fault, as mentioned above they aren't the sole controllers of the IP, Toei isn't dumb and most of their shows have pretty solid production schedules, it was most likely decided by the others that Super would start in July and Toei had to comply.

Toei doesn't cheap out on Super's animation, they actually spend a lot on the show. Episodes almost always have 2 or more animation supervisors, which is expensive, it's not uncommon to see assistant supervisors on episodes that aren't huge, they spend a lot on 2nd key animators and they take every key animator they can get. Super is probably Toei's most expensive show, the issues come down to the small amount of time the staff has to do their jobs as well as the fairly small core staff. Here's something many don't seem to know about the anime industry, outside of the more slave labor like studios, if an animator doesn't want to work on a project they won't, and this is especially true for freelancers. Super has traditionally be an unappealing project to work on due to the short deadlines caused by the show's production, so many animators just don't touch the show, or show up once and never come back, and this isn't even bringing up the huge shortage of animators in the industry right now. Money doesn't mean better animation.

Often times people say Super should just be given to a different studio, well that wouldn't fix the production issues the show faces and unless it was given to a studio that literally works their staff to death it probably wouldn't make any difference to the quality of the show. Fun fact about Toei animation, they are the only anime studio in Japan that has a union, they also pay animators based on salary instead of per cut of animation. Toei treats their staff well.
Also fun fact, the head of Toei's animator's union works on every single odd numbered episode of Super.

Another thing people say is that they should just put the show on a short hiatus to fix the problems. That'd be great, if they could do it. Super is making A LOT of money, I doubt Fuji TV or Bandai would be okay with the show going off air for 2-3 months, same goes for the sponsors. Ultimately it's up to Toei to fix Super's production on their own while the show is still running, which is no easy task.

I've spoken a lot about animation, but keep in mind that Super's production problems have been on all fronts, not just animation. Preproduction, planning, writing, storyboarding and post have all be traditionally rushed on Super. Whenever Super can reuse production materials they do, for instance most of the cast is using character design sheets from Battle of Gods and Resurrection F with a couple using their Z design sheets. Even things people wouldn't think about are recycled when they can, the interior design of Capsule Corp uses the design sheets from GT for example.

Super's production has been improving as it goes because they are able to do more preproduction with each arc, get scripts done earlier and they continue to grow the staff. The most recent arc is actually pretty consistent and we are seeing the staff grow fairly quickly. We somewhat recently learned that the scripts for episodes are given a normal 3 weeks to be written now and are written 4-6 months ahead of airing, which is pretty good on the upper side of that. On top of that animators have generally had more time to do their work thanks to there being more animators and animation supervisors generally have 8-10 weeks between their episodes as opposed to the old 5-7. Super still has a ways to go, but it's seen clear improvements to its production with every arc and that won't stop until things are totally normal. The work Toei has done and continues to do to fix Super's production is actually really impressive and the show's future looks pretty bright.
Click to expand...

ArchedThunder said:
So it is probably a little weird watching Super and continually being told the visuals get better, so I thought I'd whip up a spoiler-free guide to the improvements as well as the preaks and valleys the show has that don't represent the overall quality of the show after that episode.
This is all as of episode 106.

Arc 3
Currently Super's English dub is in the 3rd arc which you can probably all tell is an improvement over the 2nd arc. The most recent episode that has aired is #32.

  • Valley - #33. Yep the first episode of the tournament is a big drop in quality, but it gets better after that, so don't worry.

The arc ends at 41 and then 42-46 are some inbetween episodes.

  • Peak - #44. No really noteworthy animation, but what is there is done really well and the art is very consistent and on top of that the direction is really good.
  • Valley - #45. Yep, a valley right after a peak, this episode is pretty ugly.

Arc 4
The 4th arc sees a nice improvement over the previous ones, art can still be pretty inconsistent, but the quality of the animation and direction sees a nice bump and this is the arc where animation god Naotoshi starts to do some animation for the series. This arc runs from episode 47 to 67. It may seem like there are quite a few valleys compared to arc 3, but keep in mind that those valleys are still better than the ones that came before and of course there are way more peaks as well.

  • Peak - #56. Another episode that isn't a peak because of animation, but because of the art and direction.
  • Peak - #57. This is kind of the reverse of 56, the art isn't bad, but it isn't the most consistent thing in the world, but this episode is packed to the gills with tons of action animation and sees Naotoshi Shida's debut on the series as an animator, proving some awesome stuff.
  • Valley - First half of #62. The first half of this episode is a pretty big step down from what you will come to expect from this arc, but at least the second half is totally passable.
  • Valley - #64. This isn't the worst thing in the world, but the art is fairly inconsistent and there is very little animation, outside of a little but of nice action at the start this episode relies mostly on stills the pretend that there is action going on. I wasn't sure if I'd add this one, the episodes that surround it kinda make it seem like it's worse than it is, but it's still not very good so I decided to include it.
  • Peak - #66. Some consider this one of the best looking episodes in the franchise, this is an over the top action filled episode with some pretty solid art throughout. This is the second episode that Shida animates on, providing around a minute of big action.
  • Valley - The first half of 67. Sadly 66's bombastic animation is followed up by the wet fart that is 67's first half, luckily the episode really pulls itself together for the second half providing some nice art.

After this point there was a pretty sizable gap between arcs, episodes 68-76. I have a hard time rating these since they were pretty conservative on the whole and the staff was gearing up for the next arc, which is a big one. I'll just say that I do expect there to be some complaints on the second half of 72 and 76 is similar to 64 in that it has very little animation despite there being action.

Arc 5
This is the current arc of the show and it's a long one, it started on episode #77 and still hasn't ended yet. This arc saw the most significant improvement to the show's visuals. While many episodes still have ugly moments, they are generally tiny parts of episodes that overall have pretty consistent art and on top of that the animation itself generally achieves what it's trying to do far more often.
Honestly at this point I have are hard time picking out episodes that I would consider peaks and valleys since the show has gotten so consistent. There are still episodes that are better or worse than others, but the gap between the best and the worst looking episodes is honestly not that huge for the most part. On top of the art and animation getting more consistent this arc also introduces a suite of post production additions, including some post lighting, color filtering and a filter that gives more variance to the thickness of line art.
As I mentioned in my previous post the show still has a ways to go before it's totally normal, but as of the current arc in the Japanese broadcast they are doing a good job of tricking people into think it's normal on a fairly regular basis.

I hope this is useful to some of you.
Click to expand...
 
M

Man God

Non-Canon Member
Seda said:
I just realized that Cowboy Bebop uses the old Funimation end card instead of the creepy smiley face.
Click to expand...

They very likely prepared this cut of the show for TOONAMI specifically the last time they started to run it, which was pre awful logo.
 
H

Hellwarden

Member
Yeah, can't really blame people for being put off by last night's Jojo.

Thankfully, the show gets more consistent here on out.

Also boy we need Mob Psycho 100 on Toonami.
 
C

caliph95

Member
Watching Jojo

Abdul: I never seen a stand like this
Abdul is a shitty stand expert this is twice now he said

Enyaba: Why do you care about the Joestar, you have an OP stand and tons of henchmen
Dio: because they are the protagonist

Oh that's a weird orangutans


I don't see what everybody problem is about this episode..。。。。。
Wait why are we looking at kid in a shower
Ok anime directors do we really need a shot of a naked girl and her was.

Do we need to see from the special point of view, it's more creepy from the girls point of view than it would have been from the ape

Well at least they captured the average lolicon and their looks

Yes show I know what strength means narrator

Him jotaro you have something on your shoulder

giphy.gif

giphy.gif


First the shark now an ape Peta isn't going to like this
giphy.gif
 
H

Hellwarden

Member
Everything about Dragon Ball FighterZ looks amazing, everything a Dragon Ball fan could hope for, and I'll never be good at it.

It's too late.

IT'S ALREADY TOO LATE!
 
C

caliph95

Member
Playing two different fighting games is always weird especially if they played different

First only had Mortal Kombat beat the story mode and everything

Then sucked at Blazblue because the playstyle is different and faster

Then have a decent handle on it and end memorized some of the special moves

Then go to the slower and less smooth 9 and get screwed by muscle memory and get your ass kicked by the first enemy in arcade mode
 
Z

Zonic

Gives all the fucks
I might actually give DB FighterZ a try since I tend to prefer the faster paced fighting games like the MvC series compared to the slower "strategic" fighters.

Maybe I'll wait & see what TOM gives it.
 
M

Morlas

Member
Zonic said:
I might actually give DB FighterZ a try since I tend to prefer the faster paced fighting games like the MvC series compared to the slower "strategic" fighters.

Maybe I'll wait & see what TOM gives it.
Click to expand...
10/10 best game ever watch dragon ball super on Saturdays
 
B

bigkrev

Member
I'm so happy we got to see Killuas Hunter exam last night. No lie, I think it was the peak of the series till the final 2 episodes
 
Y

YoodiHoshi

Member
ArchedThunder said:
So it is probably a little weird watching Super and continually being told the visuals get better, so I thought I'd whip up a spoiler-free guide to the improvements as well as the peaks and valleys.
Click to expand...

Well, huh! I can easily map out the peaks and valleys of each HxH 2011 ep. (There are very, very few valleys mind you)
This is the reason why I can identify every single episode thus far
 
Z

Zonic

Gives all the fucks
*watches Cromartie High*

"However, when the original work is a manga & is adapted to a cartoon, there're people who BITCH about things such like character design, voice actor casting...& anyone who complains should watch this anime a thousand times.....HEY, SOME ANIME, THERE'S HARDLY BEEN ANY MOVEMENT"

omg, ADV was so hit or miss with dubs, but this was clearly a hit....even if some of their word choices are...rather questionable with how said words aren't as acceptable these days (2nd episode has the f word that ends with "got"), but this was early 2000s, so maybe things were different. Same problem I have with how they handled the Ghost Stories dub.
 
Z

Zonic

Gives all the fucks
cntr said:
i needta watch cromartie high
Click to expand...
Each episode's only about 10 minutes long, not counting OP & ED, so despite being 26 episodes, it won't take very long to get through all the episodes. It's a great comedy & one of ADV's better dubs.

It can seem a bit "cheap" with its animation, but I think it adds to the humor. There's also a few moments in the first episode where they just joke "IF YOU WANT TO KNOW WHAT HAPPENED, GO READ THE MANGA"

G4 actually aired the series back in the day, which is how I discovered it. I was flipping through channels at a hotel & stumbled upon it, took a few years before I learned what it was. It'd probably make for a good Adult Swim show considering its length & style of humor without going overboard.
 
M

Morlas

Member
Zonic said:
Each episode's only about 10 minutes long, not counting OP & ED, so despite being 26 episodes, it won't take very long to get through all the episodes. It's a great comedy & one of ADV's better dubs.

It can seem a bit "cheap" with its animation, but I think it adds to the humor. There's also a few moments in the first episode where they just joke "IF YOU WANT TO KNOW WHAT HAPPENED, GO READ THE MANGA"

G4 actually aired the series back in the day, which is how I discovered it. I was flipping through channels at a hotel & stumbled upon it, took a few years before I learned what it was. It'd probably make for a good Adult Swim show considering its length & style of humor without going overboard.
Click to expand...
Its too bad g4 went to shit I used to love that channel
 
Z

Zonic

Gives all the fucks
I wanted Tech TV/G4 for so long, but by the time I finally got it, it turned into Spike TV Jr. & had less video games and more Cops reruns.

Also oh boy, Cinematech: Noctural Emissions sure was alluring when you're a teen boy.
 
R

RampagingSoul

Member
I feel like the only times I watch cable anymore is for occasional sports (mainly baseball), Toonami, History Channel if not much is on (mainly for American Pickers and Forged in Fire) and that's about it. Maybe a movie channel if something's on and I have nothing better to do.

I know I used to watch G4 a lot when I could (mostly X-Play, Attack of the Show and Ninja Warrior). I think it's Esquire Network now if I remember correctly?
 
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