Support NeoGAF

[entremet]

I'm well aware of hypothyroidism as two people in my family suffer from it.
It does not make it "literally impossible to lose weight".
I don't care what you expect, the more pertinent question is why you felt the need to speak for him in the first place?
Why are you telling me he didn't ask for advice? Cant he speak for himself?
This is an internet forum so I'll reply to whoever the fuck I like, if he doesn't want the advice he can...just not take it?

I suggest you stay well away form online discussions if you don't like people offering input.

I think he’s saying it’s dangerous to give medical advice online, even as a medical professional.

We can keep talking about weight loss from a global perspective, but giving a guy with a diagnosed condition medical advice over online text is rather risky.

I am aware that doctors can be ineffective at times, but if that’s the case, the poster should try other doctors along with a certified nutritionist.

I only say this because he has a diagnosed condition.

 

[natsuyasumi]

If your in ketosis oil/animal fat is your primary source of energy. There's been plenty of studies shown that keto doesn't have a harmful effect on your cholesterol or blood sugar levels, to say you're "destroying your health internally" just seems misinforming.

No, they really aren't, and you have zero evidence for making that claim. Not to mention that it completely ignores all of the people who are thriving off such a diet while dramatically improving their health and blood markers.

Yeah. They don't know what they're talking about re: fat, keto, oils.

Some oils are bad, some are healthy. I mostly only use coconut, avocado, and olive.
Same for types of fat.

Properly implemented keto is an extremely healthy lifestyle.

 

[highrider]

Well conflating animal protein with cheeseburgers is a stretch. You can eat a baked chicken breast with mixed veggies. Plenty of leaner nations eat a lot of meat it's more of an income thing. France eats way more animal fats for example.

The majority of animal protein in America is processed. And there really aren’t lean nations that eat a lot of processed meats, and to make a statement like that you need a bigger cross section of the population. China and India sort of make it undisputed to me. They eat meat, it just isn’t central to their diet. They have none of the epidemic obesity and diabetes that we do, although more western diets aren’t helping.

 

[Alter_Fridge]

Obese people need to

1. Get educated on nutrition

2. Realize that keeping in shape is no less than a what you have to do in an actual paid job

3. Take pride in their appearance

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Are you disputing it?

I will. It's complete bullshit. Humans thrive on animal protein and fat. When eaten in isolation of gobs of sugary sauces and other carb-heavy components in a meal, it's truly optimal for health.\

The majority of animal protein in America is processed. And there really aren't lean nations that eat a lot of processed meats, and to make a statement like that you need a bigger cross section of the population. China and India sort of make it undisputed to me. They eat meat, it just isn't central to their diet. They have none of the epidemic obesity and diabetes that we do, although more western diets aren't helping.

So now it's about processed meats? OK, sure, I'll buy that recommendation to be wary of those.

India and China aren't exactly beacons in terms of healthy nations... They have plenty of their own issues to tackle.

 

[highrider]

I will. It's complete bullshit. Humans thrive on animal protein and fat. When eaten in isolation of gobs of sugary sauces and other carb-heavy components in a meal, it's truly optimal for health.



So now it's about processed meats? OK, sure, I'll buy that recommendation to be wary of those.

India and China aren't exactly beacons in terms of healthy nations... They have plenty of their own issues to tackle.

Based on..? I’m sure a clean keto diet is something a young and active person can thrive on, but I’ve yet to meet people that successfully implement that as they age. As your metabolism slows, and your ability to physically exercise diminishes that diet will wreck you physically.

 

[Jasup]

I like how you say people weren't tracking their macro nutrients and then give advice to meticulously count calories. They weren't doing that, either.

The food that was readily available to many people was just different than it is today. The environment has changed.

Most people will find much greater success changing what they eat rather than tracking rough numbers and throwing them against other rough estimates within the same arbitrary time window.

Isn't that rather simplistic?

Yes, the environment has changed, but to say it's only food that's "readily available" misses quite a few points. First of all food wasn't as readily available as now, and there is a good reason for that - price. Before modern agriculture, farming subsidies etc. the price of food was relatively much higher. The goal of agricultural subsidy system was to lower the price of food for the consumer, it was (and still is) very popular move. High price also created a pretty good limiting factor to your daily food intake.

Of course the food we consume now has also changed dramatically. However we can find a historical equivalent to our modern diet from the past, namely the diet of the aristocracy and the wealthy. If we take bread as an example, in the 1800's to produce white flour required a huge amount of skilled work, which thus increased the price of white bread so that only the rich could afford it, making it a status symbol - that is why it's so desireable and has stuck with us after the technology and subsidies brought the price down.

Same goes for the meat, we generally consume only the prime cuts of meat, which were reserved to the richest. We use a lot of refined sugar, which used to be as expensive as gold... Generally what we eat now is what used to be a symbol of wealth.

The sad thing of course is that the actual healthy food was found on the tables of working class people. They had bread made from unrefined flour, less meat and more other bits, unprocessed produce and so on. Something people gladly gave up on, because it's a marker of poverty and low status.

 

[OmegaTreeFish]

I like how you say people weren't tracking their macro nutrients and then give advice to meticulously count calories. They weren't doing that, either.

The food that was readily available to many people was just different than it is today. The environment has changed.

Most people will find much greater success changing what they eat rather than tracking rough numbers and throwing them against other rough estimates within the same arbitrary time window.

Counting calories is super simple.and most stuff provides that information for you. Its not even close to checking things like macro nutrients. And yes people should change what they eat. I am saying that too. What calorie counting does is get you food portion and snack cravings under control. You can switch to healthy food but if you just carry on eating tons of it you wont lose weight.

Its just programming your brain to be aware of what you put in your face. As soon as you have to write down what it is ypu are eating you are completely aware of whats going in. You can easily think you are eating sensibly but are actually snacking a lot more that you though you were are eating larger portions. Following a calorie budget is a simple and easy way to get that under control. It works. And it will work for almost anyone.

 

[CornBurrito]

Zefah, why do studies find that the Mediterranean diet is typically extremely healthy? That diet is notorious for having carbs in it. And even.... fruit!!!!!!!

 

[R10Neymarfan]

Yeah. They don't know what they're talking about re: fat, keto, oils.

Some oils are bad, some are healthy. I mostly only use coconut, avocado, and olive.
Same for types of fat.

Properly implemented keto is an extremely healthy lifestyle.

Most oils are omega 6 heavy which lead to my inflammation claim. And yes even olive oil is more towards omega six. Only a few oils are ratio balance between omega 3 and 6. It's better to limit or completely avoid. And if you even discount that then at least take my claim that they are extremely calorically dense with most of those calories coming from fat which is then stored as fat because it wasn't burned. If we're talking about one of the issues of obesity it's the vegetables oils and animal products combined followed by the helping of refined sugar.

I do agree that produce should be subsidized in some form to be more affordable rather than cattle feed, beef, and dairy.

 

[entremet]

I will. It's complete bullshit. Humans thrive on animal protein and fat. When eaten in isolation of gobs of sugary sauces and other carb-heavy components in a meal, it's truly optimal for health.\



So now it's about processed meats? OK, sure, I'll buy that recommendation to be wary of those.

India and China aren't exactly beacons in terms of healthy nations... They have plenty of their own issues to tackle.

What about Japan? They eat around 70 percent of their calories from carbs, mostly via white rice and they have amongst the healthiest seniors around, along with super low rates of diabetes, cancer, and heart disease.

I'm of the mind that that human being can thrive off many diets and the only truly terrible things are:

Excess sugar and vegetable oils.

 

[Ever]

idk why obesity is a problem

like just put down the fork

just stop eating and you'll lose weight

 

[CornBurrito]

What about Japan? They eat around 70 percent of their calories from carbs, mostly via white rice and they have amongst the healthiest seniors around, along with super low rates of diabetes, cancer, and heart disease.

I've asked this question to him many times and never gotten a proper response.

Same with the Mediterranean diet, which has low consumption of red meat and high consumption of vegetables, fruits (which is allegedly poison), and whole grains.

 

[Malakai]

Most oils are omega 6 heavy which lead to my inflammation claim. And yes even olive oil is more towards omega six. Only a few oils are ratio balance between omega 3 and 6. It's better to limit or completely avoid. And if you even discount that then at least take my claim that they are extremely calorically dense with most of those calories coming from fat which is then stored as fat because it wasn't burned. If we're talking about one of the issues of obesity it's the vegetables oils and animal products combined followed by the helping of refined sugar.

I do agree that produce should be subsidized in some form to be more affordable rather than cattle feed, beef, and dairy.

Ratio isn't the only thing that matters. It is the amount. Olive Oil does have an unfavorable ratio; however, Polyunsaturated fats only is about 10% of the make up of Olive Oil. For a tablespoon that is about 1.344 grams of omega 6 to 0.123 grams of omega 3. Not a lot at all. Provided you are eating a decent diet, this amount isn't going to throw you off like SAD.

 

[RDreamer]

idk why obesity is a problem

like just put down the fork

just stop eating and you'll lose weight

idk maybe food tastes good?

 

[Ever]

idk maybe food tastes good?

food does taste good, yes

 

[R10Neymarfan]

I've asked this question to him many times and never gotten a proper response.

Same with the Mediterranean diet, which has low consumption of red meat and high consumption of vegetables, fruits (which is allegedly poison), and whole grains.

It always holds true to Okinawans who base their diet off of mostly starches.

There was also this African tribe featured on a documentary that also followed a mostly whole foods plant based diet and had major longevity.

 

[RDreamer]

Seriously though, everyone should count calories and use an app like MyFitnessPal at least for a little while. I feel in absolute control of my weight. If I go up it's not a mystery at all why and when I go down it's also not a mystery.

 

[Monkeyball]

Obese people need to

1. Get educated on nutrition

2. Realize that keeping in shape is no less than a what you have to do in an actual paid job

3. Take pride in their appearance

You got it figured out! Your Nobel prize is on the way.

 

[Vuci]

It's not a drug and it's not addictive.

Wrong. Not saying it is a drug but it is addictive. And it is at the root of this obesity crisis.

 

[llien]

With 40% of adults having too much fat, poor kids...

like, literally just follow the AHA guidelines for daily sugar intake. 38 grams for men, 25 for women.

It bugs me that people talk about sugar that much.
Fat is 800 kcal per 100g, sugar is 400. (bread is around 200, for that matter)

You can get fat eating pretty much anything (bar some extreme diets), total number of calories is what matters.

idk why obesity is a problem

like just put down the fork

just stop eating and you'll lose weight

You realize that hunger was one of the ways to torture people?

 

[Defuser]

idk why obesity is a problem

like just put down the fork

just stop eating and you'll lose weight

Have you not seen GAF's love for Pizzas? How can they not stopping eating that?

 

[Vicetrailia]

I mean in the US we just have mad access, and on top of that activity levels are going down.

 

[CountAntonius]

Life is stressful. Work sucks. Bad food is cheap and eating makes people feel better.

This metric won't change for the better any time soon.

The simple reality.

 

[teh_pwn]

I've asked this question to him many times and never gotten a proper response.

Same with the Mediterranean diet, which has low consumption of red meat and high consumption of vegetables, fruits (which is allegedly poison), and whole grains.

Japan is low reward. Not of ton of flavor enhancers.

Same reason why French fries induce hunger but not a boiled potato.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Based on..? I'm sure a clean keto diet is something a young and active person can thrive on, but I've yet to meet people that successfully implement that as they age. As your metabolism slows, and your ability to physically exercise diminishes that diet will wreck you physically.

The diet requires zero exercise to stay lean and strong. It provides everything the body needs (essential proteins, vitamins, fats, and energy) to maintain itself and none of what it doesn't (insulin roller coaster) and abundant glucose that cannot be spent due to lack of physical activity.

What about Japan? They eat around 70 percent of their calories from carbs, mostly via white rice and they have amongst the healthiest seniors around, along with super low rates of diabetes, cancer, and heart disease.

I'm of the mind that that human being can thrive off many diets and the only truly terrible things are:

Excess sugar and vegetable oils.

There's definitely a genetic component to it, but as you say, just avoiding sugar will take you a very long way. A reasonable amount of carbs combined with an active lifestyle will not kill you early or ruin your health prematurely. It's when you stop being active that it will destroy your health and you see that even in the elderly of Japan. They also have plenty of diabetes, stroke, and cancer in the country, so it's not like they are without health issues.

Counting calories is super simple.and most stuff provides that information for you. Its not even close to checking things like macro nutrients. And yes people should change what they eat. I am saying that too. What calorie counting does is get you food portion and snack cravings under control. You can switch to healthy food but if you just carry on eating tons of it you wont lose weight.

Its just programming your brain to be aware of what you put in your face. As soon as you have to write down what it is ypu are eating you are completely aware of whats going in. You can easily think you are eating sensibly but are actually snacking a lot more that you though you were are eating larger portions. Following a calorie budget is a simple and easy way to get that under control. It works. And it will work for almost anyone.

It's not about counting macro nutrients, but simply understanding which foods are composed of what.

Knowing that a chicken thigh is fat and protein while a bagel is mostly pure carbs, for example. Knowing which foods to fill up on and which to generally avoid. No counting involved.

It bugs me that people talk about sugar that much.
Fat is 800 kcal per 100g, sugar is 400. (bread is around 200, for that matter)

You can get fat eating pretty much anything (bar some extreme diets), total number of calories is what matters.

Except that simply isn't true, but I'm sure Coca Cola and the like love that their efforts have paid off to equalize all food in the minds of the consumer to make their products do not look so bad.

I've asked this question to him many times and never gotten a proper response.

Same with the Mediterranean diet, which has low consumption of red meat and high consumption of vegetables, fruits (which is allegedly poison), and whole grains.

I'm pretty sure I've responded to you plenty.

Also, the Mediterranean diet does not exist outside of diet books. No native population adopts it en masse, certainly not people in the Mediterranean region.

 

[CornBurrito]

Japan is low reward. Not of ton of flavor enhancers.

Same reason why French fries induce hunger but not a boiled potato.

Japanese food is flavorful though. Wasabi, Soy Sauce, miso soup, tsukemono.



" It's when you stop being active that it will destroy your health and you see that even in the elderly of Japan."

Also lol. Can you provide proof that old people don't get health problems if they are on keto?

 

[Infinite]

What about Japan? They eat around 70 percent of their calories from carbs, mostly via white rice and they have amongst the healthiest seniors around, along with super low rates of diabetes, cancer, and heart disease.

I'm of the mind that that human being can thrive off many diets and the only truly terrible things are:

Excess sugar and vegetable oils.

My belief as well. Fad diets are a total scam

 

[Sarek]

Seriously though, everyone should count calories and use an app like MyFitnessPal at least for a little while. I feel in absolute control of my weight. If I go up it's not a mystery at all why and when I go down it's also not a mystery.

This good advice. Even if you aren't overweight at all it is a good idea to check what kind of nutrient composition your daily diet has.

 

[ArkhamFantasy]

MyFitnessPal should be installed on every phone and pc.

 

[CornBurrito]

Also, the Mediterranean diet does not exist outside of diet books. No native population adopts it en masse, certainly not people in the Mediterranean region.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediterranean_diet

 

[Deleted member 17706]

" It's when you stop being active that it will destroy your health and you see that even in the elderly of Japan."

Also lol. Can you provide proof that old people don't get health problems if they are on keto?

You can't prove that something will work for everyone, but I can certainly provide examples of older people thriving on the diet.

 

[CornBurrito]

You can't prove that something will work for everyone, but I can certainly provide examples of older people thriving on the diet.

Do you have studies that show older people overwhelmingly experience greater quality and length of life on a keto diet than on a Mediterranean or Japanese diet?

 

[NoRéN]

MyFitnessPal should be installed on every phone and pc.

People will ignore it just like any other app they don't "need".

I'll give you an example of how difficult this is to tackle. My spouse's job gives employees $400year if you do a biometric screening and improve on your last result or maintain a good result. Basically, pass a health test, nothing over what it should be and you get some money.

Most people don't bother. Can't fail if you don't take it!

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Do you have studies that show older people overwhelmingly experience greater quality and length of life on a keto diet than on a Mediterranean or Japanese diet?

I'm pretty certain no such studies have ever been carried out, especially not in a controlled environment.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediterranean_diet

Yeah, it's a mash up of trends observed in multiple different countries through the highly biased lens of king nutritional studies fraudster Ancel Keys. No one natively eats "the Mediterranean Diet."

 

[CornBurrito]

I'm pretty certain no such studies have ever been carried out, especially not in a controlled environment.

So then what basis do you have for your claim that Japanese elder's health problems are caused by rice?

 

[Deleted member 17706]

So then what basis do you have for your claim that Japanese elder's health problems are caused by rice?

It's a hypothesis based on the fact that excess glucose in the absence of physical activity has been shown time and time again to lead to a variety of health complications and fat gain.

 

[cromofo]

Also, the Mediterranean diet does not exist outside of diet books. No native population adopts it en masse, certainly not people in the Mediterranean region.

That's bullshit. I live there and we certainly do.

 

[PerkeyMan]

Lol. I hope that you are joking

No, I'm not joking.

"Available evidence in humans shows that sugar and sweetness can induce reward and craving that are comparable in magnitude to those induced by addictive drugs. Although this evidence is limited by the inherent difficulty of comparing different types of rewards and psychological experiences in humans, it is nevertheless supported by recent experimental research on sugar and sweet reward in laboratory rats. Overall, this research has revealed that sugar and sweet reward can not only substitute to addictive drugs, like cocaine, but can even be more rewarding and attractive. At the neurobiological level, the neural substrates of sugar and sweet reward appear to be more robust than those of cocaine (i.e., more resistant to functional failures), possibly reflecting past selective evolutionary pressures for seeking and taking foods high in sugar and calories."

Quick let the peer reviewers know you proved them wrong so they can print a retraction.

Being arrogant and wrong at the same time usually don't go well. It makes you look twice as stupid.

Your link describes what happens when you add sugar, fat and salt (Key word here: hyperpalatable) and how certain foods can be addictive. Sucrose is not.
There is a clear difference between, for example, nicotine and alcohol compared to sugar. The difference is that when you smoke or drink a beer, you get substances that are taken up in the blood and they then have a direct effect on different receptors in your brain (and usually the body)

If you inject sugar directly into the blood nothing would happen.

You don't like or enjoy all foods containing sugar. If it's to much you will most likely find it disgusting. Have you ever experienced drinking tea or coffee with too much sugar in it, it becomes undrinkable. What would happen if you put a bowl of sugar on the table next time your kids have a birthday party? How many will eat compared to if you put a cake on the table? Why is that the case?

If sugar is addictive then fat and salts are addictive (and of course they aren't). But they all increase reward (mashed potatoes with more butter = tastes better. Peanuts with salt compared to without = tastes better)

If someone is addictive to heroin, they would do anything to get hold on the substance and get the rush, this does not simply happen with sugar. You don't eat a certain food you don't like to get access to the sugar molecules.

Conclusion: Sugar, fat and salt all increase reward in certain foods which make us overeat. Sucrose on its own is not addictive. Fat on its own is not addictive. Salt on its own is not addictive.

Sources:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27372453
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25692302

Sugar is addictive. There's dozens of studies supporting that claim.

No, there aren't. See abow.

You can't fool me Pepsi Man.

I laughed

 

[Bold One]

I'm down in Texas and there is a new outlet mall opening which ironically is called "I Love Sugar!" I kid you not. What's worse, is their market campaign not only panders to the sweet tooth, but also the suggestive marketing which from what I can tell, doesn't have any males, just females. As seen here:

My point as I've read through quite a few of the comments here is obviously people dealing with identity of self given the health statistics numbers and quite frankly, I find it disgusting that of all things, a candy shop seem to promoting sugar and sex. I suppose tho with all things America, it seems to be par for our course.
Link: https://www.ilovesugar.com/

I can't believe that is real.

 

[PerkeyMan]

Wrong. Not saying it is a drug but it is addictive. And it is at the root of this obesity crisis.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25692302

"In Study One, processed foods, higher in fat and GL, were most frequently associated with addictive-like eating behaviors"

 

[Nipo]

No, I'm not joking.



Being arrogant and wrong at the same time usually don't go well. It makes you look twice as stupid.

Your link describes what happens when you add sugar, fat and salt (Key word here: hyperpalatable) and how certain foods can be addictive. Sucrose is not.
There is a clear difference between, for example, nicotine and alcohol compared to sugar. The difference is that when you smoke or drink a beer, you get substances that are taken up in the blood and they then have a direct effect on different receptors in your brain (and usually the body)

If you inject sugar directly into the blood nothing would happen.

You don't like or enjoy all foods containing sugar. If it's to much you will most likely find it disgusting. Have you ever experienced drinking tea or coffee with too much sugar in it, it becomes undrinkable. What would happen if you put a bowl of sugar on the table next time your kids have a birthday party? How many will eat compared to if you put a cake on the table? Why is that the case?

If sugar is addictive then fat and salts are addictive (and of course they aren't). But they all increase reward (mashed potatoes with more butter = tastes better. Peanuts with salt compared to without = tastes better)

If someone is addictive to heroin, they would do anything to get hold on the substance and get the rush, this does not simply happen with sugar. You don't eat a certain food you don't like to get access to the sugar molecules.

Conclusion: Sugar, fat and salt all increase reward in certain foods which make us overeat. Sucrose on its own is not addictive. Fat on its own is not addictive. Salt on its own is not addictive.

Sources:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27372453
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25692302




No, there aren't. See abow.



I laughed

"Our study unifies information about the synaptic connectivity, the naturally occurring endogenous function, and the causal role of the LH-VTA pathway, providing a new level of insight toward how information is integrated in this circuit. These results highlight the importance of examining the functional role of neurons by connectivity, in addition to genetic markers. LH-VTA neurons selectively encoded the action of reward seeking but did not encode environmental stimuli, whereas rewarding stimuli and reward-predictive cues were encoded by a discrete population of LH neurons downstream of the VTA. Furthermore, we have identified a specific projection that is causally linked to compulsive sucrose-seeking and feeding behavior. The heterogeneity in the LH-VTA projection is necessary for providing an adaptive balance between driving motivation and regulating appropriately directed appetitive behaviors. These findings provide insights relevant to pathological conditions such as compulsive overeating disorder, sugar addiction, and obesity."



"We reveal that the LH sends excitatory and inhibitory input onto VTA dopamine (DA) and GABA neurons, and that the GABAergic projection drives feeding-related behavior. Our study overlays information about the type, function and connectivity of LH neurons and identifies a neural circuit that selectively controls compulsive sugar consumption, without preventing feeding necessary for survival, providing a potential target for therapeutic interventions for compulsive-overeating disorder."

I'm glad you've decide on things that MIT and the CDC have spent over a decade studying. Maybe you should forward them that lit review and they can save billions with further studies.

 

[CornBurrito]

Yeah, it's a mash up of trends observed in multiple different countries through the highly biased lens of king nutritional studies fraudster Ancel Keys. No one natively eats "the Mediterranean Diet."

And yet we have semi-controlled studies where participants who eat it seem to be healthier than those who do not.

You so desperately want carbs to be this pure evil that shouldn't be tolerated in even the slightest amount, but studies don't support you. Keto isn't necessary to be healthy. Sorry.

 

[Piers]

idk why obesity is a problem

like just put down the fork

just stop eating and you'll lose weight

At different rates, granted. Metabolism can be slow enough for some that they need to go above and beyond healthy eating/life style to actually get slim.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

And yet we have semi-controlled studies where participants who eat it seem to be healthier than those who do not.

You so desperately want carbs to be this pure evil that shouldn't be tolerated in even the slightest amount, but studies don't support you. Keto isn't necessary to be healthy. Sorry.

The Mediterranean diet as it is prescribed will certainly benefit you a hell of a lot more than what the typical American eats.

I also never claimed that carbs are evil. They certainly can have their uses. They just aren't necessary or optimal for health for most people.

Nor do I think keto is necessary to be healthy. I don't care even care about ketosis. The important thing is keeping carbs low, especially if you are mostly inactive. No, not everyone needs to do this to stay in good health, but if you are currently unhealthy, it's certainly worth giving a go and will almost certainly dramatically improve things for you.

 

[Berto]

Yeah, it's a mash up of trends observed in multiple different countries through the highly biased lens of king nutritional studies fraudster Ancel Keys. No one natively eats "the Mediterranean Diet."

From that wiki page:
- High intakes of extra virgin olive oil (as the principal source of fat), vegetables (including leafy green vegetables), fresh fruits (consumed as desserts or snacks), cereals (mostly whole grains), nuts and legumes.
- Moderate intakes of fish and other seafood, poultry, dairy products (principally cheese and yogurt) and red wine.
- Low intakes of eggs, red meat, processed meat and sweets.

That's Portugal.

 

[Vuci]

The Mediterranean diet as it is prescribed will certainly benefit you a hell of a lot more than what the typical American eats.

I also never claimed that carbs are evil. They certainly can have their uses. They just aren't necessary or optimal for health for most people.

Nor do I think keto is necessary to be healthy. I don't care even care about ketosis. The important thing is keeping carbs low, especially if you are mostly inactive. No, not everyone needs to do this to stay in good health, but if you are currently unhealthy, it's certainly worth giving a go and will almost certainly dramatically improve things for you.

This was my solution. I work on computers so am quite inactive. Cutting or diminishing carbs was the key for me.

 

[entremet]

The Mediterranean diet as it is prescribed will certainly benefit you a hell of a lot more than what the typical American eats.

I also never claimed that carbs are evil. They certainly can have their uses. They just aren't necessary or optimal for health for most people.

Nor do I think keto is necessary to be healthy. I don't care even care about ketosis. The important thing is keeping carbs low, especially if you are mostly inactive. No, not everyone needs to do this to stay in good health, but if you are currently unhealthy, it's certainly worth giving a go and will almost certainly dramatically improve things for you.

I do think low carb and keto are great for appetite control. They also remove a lot of junk by default--fries, cookies, soda, cheeseburgers, pizza. But if you look at those foods, they are also high in calories.

But I don't think all carbs are created equal. Boiled potatoes versus french fries is a good comparison. For example, this bloke lost a lot of weight just eating boiled potatoes.

https://www.spudfit.com/f-a-q

The trick is no added fat.

It seems fat plus carbs, like the foods I mentioned above, is a disaster.

Fat plus protein seems to safer. But Protein plus carbs, while keeping low in fat, is also rather healthy. But many cultures are mostly carb based (protein has been historically expensive, both in acquiring it and feeding animals) and many are rather healthy.

https://bluezones.com/2016/11/power-9/

 

[titiklabingapat]

All of these are useless because diet is just one part of the equation of why we are all so fat. The other half is the design of our cities where it's faster to just do everything by car.

Even the UK recognizes this and they are recommending higher density in all developments from now on.

When you have to set aside time to be active, then it's a big problem. Activity should be an unconscious thing that you do everyday, implemented through urban design. We evolved to walk and run as biological creatures.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

I do think low carb and keto are great for appetite control. They also remove a lot of junk by default--fries, cookies, soda, cheeseburgers, pizza. But if you look at those foods, they are also high in calories.

But I don't think all carbs are created equal. Boiled potatoes versus french fries is a good comparison. For example, this bloke lost a lot of weight just eating boiled potatoes.

https://www.spudfit.com/f-a-q

The trick is no added fat.

It seems fat plus carbs, like the foods I mentioned above, is a disaster.

Fat plus protein seems to safer. But Protein plus carbs, while keeping low in fat, is also rather healthy. But many cultures are mostly carb based (protein has been historically expensive, both in acquiring it and feeding animals) and many are rather healthy.

https://bluezones.com/2016/11/power-9/

Yeah, all of that stuff seems to work, at least in the short/mid term, for the people who try them.

My main concern with carbs is that they can really only be used for energy or converted to fat. They are unique in how they spike blood sugar and cause your body to release loads of insulin to deal with it. They are special in that they throw you out of homeostasis. Without them, your body happily uses fat for energy primarily (either via food or from fat stores on the body) with a supplemented steady supply of self-generated glucose.

There are plenty of diseases and health complications associated with elevated blood sugar levels. Even if all things were equal strictly in terms of weight control, I would still avoid carbs because of all of those issues (and the fact that blood sugar spikes and the subsequent crashes make me feel lethargic).

Everyone has to find what works for them in the end, of course.