Bailing out of this thread now. Too many generalized statements from people who are not members of the general FGC, the NeoGAF FGC, or even watched the streams.
Hit the nail on the head, I can't read this stuff anymore.
Bailing out of this thread now. Too many generalized statements from people who are not members of the general FGC, the NeoGAF FGC, or even watched the streams.
That was the other thing that was stupid as hell. Starslay3r said she had her back about being harassed and that it was wrong for her to be treated the way she was. Miranda's response to it was. She's dumb and doesnt know anything, things are fine.
So freaking dumb =.=
I don't approve of it at all. I'm just saying she stuffed herself into the situation when she had times to back out of it.
But the biggest problem is that I think when you are called out on it, or when you realize that you have actually offended someone or someone is being seriously critical of the environment being created by your comments or actions, you don't defend it. You take a step back and admit that you might have crossed the line, you apologize, and you try to work it out so everyone has a fun time playing games.
People in the stream chat.
Oh, OK. Is there any significance to the term besides "streamer" or "viewer" or "spectator"? Seems like an oddly long term if it's just that.
Oh, OK. Is there any significance to the term beyond "streamer" or "viewer" or "spectator"? Seems like an oddly long term if it's just that.
Bailing out of this thread now. Too many generalized statements from people who are not members of the general FGC, the NeoGAF FGC, or even watched the streams.
And again, what happens? Articles and the media generalize anonymous online spectators, stream monsters, who spend their time trolling anyways using hundreds upon hundreds of troll accounts, as the FGC itself (not to single them out, but considering 4chan has a very strong fighting game community, I wouldn't hazard a guess that many of them originate from there either just to light fires). And then, this issue is for some reason deemed exclusive to the FGC and blown up out of proportion completely because the FGC never gets any positive news reported about it. Suffice to say, people on GAF, and a lot of pro players are very upset about how this incident is painting the ENTIRE community.
Yes, what Aris said was terrible. He had a point he was trying to make, took it way too far out of line, and started talking some mad misogynistic nonsense that went far beyond the nasty and has put the entire FGC in this odd situation, much of us ashamed. But I don't know about these articles trying to cram everything into one neat piece of writing when the entire thing has been a massive clusterfuck over the past 3 days. Don't report on something if it's just misinformation, at least GiantBomb is doing something to try and remedy that.
So many details left out, like how Miranda kept saying on her twitter how Capcom did nothing when they did, and how they intervened early on too IIRC, how Aris actually apologized, how Miranda threw matches and screwed DMG Kor (a teammate for a challenge) out of potentially getting back in for the $25K with her premeditated plan she talked about on Twitter, etc. So much periphery information that isn't presented, but indeed plays into the fuckery that is this event that's unfolded over the past few days.
EDIT: Oh yeah can't forget the Starslay3r thing too. Girl tells her to shut up about there being sexual harassment going on, and then she goes and claims there is afterwards. I just don't understand what's been going through Miranda's mind these past few days either.
Oh, OK. Is there any significance to the term beyond "streamer" or "viewer" or "spectator"? Seems like an oddly long term if it's just that.
So many details left out, like how Miranda kept saying on her twitter how Capcom did nothing when they did, how Aris actually apologized, how Miranda threw matches and screwed DMG Kor (a teammate for a challenge) out of potentially getting back in for the $25K with her premeditated plan she talked about on Twitter, etc. So much periphery information that isn't presented, but indeed plays into the fuckery that is this event that's unfolded over the past few days.
"The beauty of the fighting game community, and you should know this - its based around not being welcome. Thats the beauty of it. Thats the key essence of it. When you walk into an arcade for the first time, nobody likes you."
"And then there are people who are racist but they have tons of friends of all colors and they have deep love for those friends."
"This is a community thats, you know, 15 or 20 years old, and the sexual harassment is part of a culture, and if you remove that from the fighting game community, its not the fighting game community--its StarCraft."
It's just the slang, the "monster" bit highlights the craziness that goes on in stream chats pretty well so it sticks. If you enter a FGC thread, it probably sounds like we're all speaking a different language entirely.Oh, OK. Is there any significance to the term beyond "streamer" or "viewer" or "spectator"? Seems like an oddly long term if it's just that.
"This is a community thats, you know, 15 or 20 years old, and the sexual harassment is part of a culture, and if you remove that from the fighting game community, its not the fighting game community--its StarCraft."
Oh, OK. Is there any significance to the term beyond "streamer" or "viewer" or "spectator"? Seems like an oddly long term if it's just that.
Because this:Oh, OK. Is there any significance to the term beyond "streamer" or "viewer" or "spectator"? Seems like an oddly long term if it's just that.
Being a member of those might let you more insight into the situation, rather than going by articles posted in haste without much research. Miranda even asked for the Dtoid article to be taken down.You don't need to be any of those to find much of this distasteful. Not to mention people trying to justify this behavior.
Oh, OK. Is there any significance to the term beyond "streamer" or "viewer" or "spectator"? Seems like an oddly long term if it's just that.
That's great. First be a dick, then apologize. That makes it cool, right?He was supposedly pulled aside by Capcom's folks and he apologized several times a couple of days ago.
This. This is the textual description. Mine was visual.If you try to watch pretty much any fighting game tournament, you will get a steady stream of people in the chat talking about everything other than the actual game going on. Basically people just trolling as hard as they can just because they can. Racism, sexism, you name it, lots of isms.
The solution is the first thing you do when opening a stream is close the chat and discuss it if you like in threads like GAF. Why they would pander to this on a commercially backed show is beyond me. I don't see them as part of the fgc, more like a cancer that needs to be removed.
Being a member of those might let you more insight into the situation, rather than going by articles posted in haste without much research. Miranda even asked for the Dtoid article to be taken down.
Aris has been a dipshit for years, he just finally went full retard with it.
Oh, OK. Is there any significance to the term beyond "streamer" or "viewer" or "spectator"? Seems like an oddly long term if it's just that.
Bailing out of this thread now. Too many generalized statements from people who are not members of the general FGC, the NeoGAF FGC, or even watched the streams.
I'll see you guys in the SFxT OT, if you survive. Be safe, everyone. The mods and Capcops are watching.
Aris has been a dipshit for years, he just finally went full retard with it.
Bailing out of this thread now. Too many generalized statements from people who are not members of the general FGC, the NeoGAF FGC, or even watched the streams.
I'll see you guys in the SFxT OT, if you survive. Be safe, everyone. The mods and Capcops are watching.
If you try to watch pretty much any fighting game tournament, you will get a steady stream of people in the chat talking about everything other than the actual game going on. Basically people just trolling as hard as they can just because they can. Racism, sexism, you name it, lots of isms.
The solution is the first thing you do when opening a stream is close the chat and discuss it if you like in threads like GAF. Why they would pander to this on a commercially backed show is beyond me. I don't see them as part of the fgc, more like a cancer that needs to be removed.
Read above.Why do you need to be a part of any of those to be able to accurately judge what is acceptable human interaction?
Don't take my word for it. Read the 50 or so pages of the Cross Assault thread discussing this issue.Oh please.
A lot of shit talking happens in casual environments, and this is definitely something that is under greater scrutiny because of public streams. I agree that there is a different threshold for what people are comfortable with, and people who are playing games tend to want to cool off on being politically correct.
But the biggest problem is that I think when you are called out on it, or when you realize that you have actually offended someone or someone is being seriously critical of the environment being created by your comments or actions, you don't defend it. You take a step back and admit that you might have crossed the line, you apologize, and you try to work it out so everyone has a fun time playing games.
Yeah, I guess it's obvious he felt like he could show his true casual personality in the reality show format.Not true. There are definitely people in the community who do not condone this and do say things against it. If you follow the big tournaments streams with Team Spooky organizing and streaming stuff, they have generally great commentators and their events are planned to be all inclusive without pandering to this sort of shit. There's still some ways to go for the community at large, but there are steps being taken to make it better.
The problem I feel with this specific event which Capcom is running is that they probably didn't know what they were getting into by putting together two specific teams with the rules requiring one female player in each, and then making it a "reality show" format. It was probably asking for trouble tbh.
Because this:
Stream monsters are a truly different breed.
Being a member of those might let you more insight into the situation, rather than going by articles posted in haste without much research. Miranda even asked for the Dtoid article to be taken down.
Oh wow. I think I just got it. Stream Monster = Kappa?
Is that it? I feel like I might've learned something from reading through this thread.
That's a possibility, but even still, she teeters between drawing attention to herself and the situation, and then trying to distance herself from the drama because of all the pressure. It's difficult to tell what she wants.I would imagine it would have something to do with the fear that she'll be outed of the FGC if she makes a big deal out of this.
I don't think she's the villain at all. Aris is the villain, and the reason why we're here, but I don't think that gives anybody the go ahead to ignore these details that do give a better perspective of BOTH sides of the issue. The less black and white people see the issue at it's core, the less black and white the entire situation regarding the FGC becomes as well. Or else you get some of the brash generalizations of the FGC.I feel like a lot of people are getting hyper-defensive about this and trying to somehow de-legitimize any criticism by picking apart every small detail about this girl to try and somehow make her the villain in all this.
Maybe some of these details undermine her integrity a little bit, but this is stretching it.
However, you don't even really need her testimony (if you guys are fucking putting her on trial) to see that the shit that was said in the two main videos really does speak for itself. No amount of harping on details is going to make that shit right.
Not true. There are definitely people in the community who do not condone this and do say things against it. If you follow the big tournaments streams with Team Spooky organizing and streaming stuff, they have generally great commentators and their events are planned to be all inclusive without pandering to this sort of shit. There's still some ways to go for the community at large, but there are steps being taken to make it better.
The problem I feel with this specific event which Capcom is running is that they probably didn't know what they were getting into by putting together two specific teams with the rules requiring one female player in each, and then making it a "reality show" format. It was probably asking for trouble tbh.
Aris has been a dipshit for years, he just finally went full retard with it.
"Kappa" = the code you type in the chat to make the face come up.
And again, what happens? Articles and the media generalize anonymous online spectators, stream monsters, who spend their time trolling anyways using hundreds upon hundreds of troll accounts, as the FGC itself (not to single them out, but considering 4chan has a very strong fighting game community, I wouldn't hazard a guess that many of them originate from there either just to light fires). And then, this issue is for some reason deemed exclusive to the FGC and blown up out of proportion completely because the FGC never gets any positive news reported about it. Suffice to say, people on GAF, and a lot of pro players are very upset about how this incident is painting the ENTIRE community.
Yes, what Aris said was terrible. He had a point he was trying to make, took it way too far out of line, and started talking some mad misogynistic nonsense that went far beyond the nasty and has put the entire FGC in this odd situation, much of us ashamed. But I don't know about these articles trying to cram everything into one neat piece of writing when the entire thing has been a massive clusterfuck over the past 3 days. Don't report on something if it's just misinformation, at least GiantBomb is doing something to try and remedy that.
So many details left out, like how Miranda kept saying on her twitter how Capcom did nothing when they did,
and how they intervened early on too IIRC, how Aris actually apologized,
how Miranda threw matches and screwed DMG Kor (a teammate for a challenge) out of potentially getting back in for the $25K with her premeditated plan she talked about on Twitter, etc.
EDIT: Oh yeah can't forget the Starslay3r thing too. Girl tells her to shut up about there being sexual harassment going on, and then she goes and claims there is afterwards. I just don't understand what's been going through Miranda's mind these past few days either.
pretty smart way to play it. keep away and run the clock down, VG journos have a short attention span when it comes to news.
I said it before and I say it again. Miranda doesn't know how to deal with stream monsters.
And again, what happens? Articles and the media generalize anonymous online spectators, stream monsters, who spend their time trolling anyways using hundreds upon hundreds of troll accounts, as the FGC itself (not to single them out, but considering 4chan has a very strong fighting game community, I wouldn't hazard a guess that many of them originate from there either just to light fires). And then, this issue is for some reason deemed exclusive to the FGC and blown up out of proportion completely because the FGC never gets any positive news reported about it. Suffice to say, people on GAF, and a lot of pro players are very upset about how this incident is painting the ENTIRE community.
Yes, what Aris said was terrible. He had a point he was trying to make, took it way too far out of line, and started talking some mad misogynistic nonsense that went far beyond the nasty and has put the entire FGC in this odd situation, much of us ashamed. But I don't know about these articles trying to cram everything into one neat piece of writing when the entire thing has been a massive clusterfuck over the past 3 days. Don't report on something if it's just misinformation, at least GiantBomb is doing something to try and remedy that.
So many details left out, like how Miranda kept saying on her twitter how Capcom did nothing when they did, and how they intervened early on too IIRC, how Aris actually apologized, how Miranda threw matches and screwed DMG Kor (a teammate for a challenge) out of potentially getting back in for the $25K with her premeditated plan she talked about on Twitter, etc. So much periphery information that isn't presented, but indeed plays into the fuckery that is this event that's unfolded over the past few days.
EDIT: Oh yeah can't forget the Starslay3r thing too. Girl tells her to shut up about there being sexual harassment going on, and then she goes and claims there is afterwards. I just don't understand what's been going through Miranda's mind these past few days either.
Read above.
Don't take my word for it. Read the 50 or so pages of the Cross Assault thread discussing this issue.
Rea: When I go to SoCal regionals and I see a Phoenix [from Marvel vs. Capcom 3] on main stage getting blown up and there’s some dude in the audience just yelling “Bitch! Bitch!” every time she gets hit and then she killed and goes “Yeah, rape that bitch!” Yeah, that’s totally acceptable! Really? Really? You’re going to tell me that’s acceptable?
Bakhtanians: Look, man. What is unacceptable about that? There’s nothing unacceptable about that. These are people, we’re in America, man, this isn’t North Korea. We can say what we want. People get emotional.
This is a terrible thing to say. The only way it is not a terrible thing to say is if he is 100% joking. This wouldn't be a thing if he was joking.
I don't need to know him or be part of "FGC gaf" to know that at this point he said some dumb things, and instead of being reasonable and apologizing and not continue he decided to be an asshole. This is human interaction, not FIGHTING GAME SPIRIT THAT IS PART OF THE CULTURE YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND STOP TRYING TO CHANGE OUR SHITTY WAYS.
What's a "stream monster"?
This is a terrible thing to say. The only way it is not a terrible thing to say is if he is 100% joking and with a group of people who knew this to be fact. This wouldn't be a thing if he was joking.
I don't need to know him or be part of "FGC gaf" to know that at this point he said some dumb things, and instead of being reasonable and apologizing and not continue he decided to be an asshole. This is human interaction, not FIGHTING GAME SPIRIT THAT IS PART OF THE CULTURE YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND STOP TRYING TO CHANGE OUR SHITTY WAYS.
Well, here's the real question: Is this or is this not an actual problem in your opinion?
If Aris is one of a kind and there is no one else like him or very few people like him who have such opinions and can also get the amount of attention in the fighting scene to appear in interviews and such, then it is not a huge problem and as long as the community kicks his ass over the stupidity of this episode and the media "forgets" about it as time goes by, the community will continue to improve and incidents like this are unlikely to happen again.
On the other hand, if there is a possibility that something like this can blow up in the news again, then it is something the community needs to work harder to stamp out. Prevention is always better than cure. Is there is a sort of problem, ignoring it won't make it go away.
Just saying.