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The Hobbit - Official Thread of Officially In Production

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I have a feeling when they first introduce him in the Hobbit movie, his eyes will be all that you see at first. The kind of light you see reflected off the eyes of a nocturnal animal.

1eebI.jpg

There is too much light in this short shot.
 

Edmond Dantès

Dantès the White
Okay, now I'm getting excited.

If The Hobbit has anything as stirring as the following, I'll be in heaven.

The Mouth of Sauron from the complete recordings


Sons of Gondor! Of Rohan! My brothers. I see in your eyes the same fear that would take the heart of me! A day may come, when the courage of men fails, when we forsake our friends and break all bonds of Fellowship, but it is not this day! An hour of wolves and shattered shields when the age of men comes crashing down! But it is not this day! This day we fight! By all that you hold dear on this good earth, I bid you, stand, men of the West!



Thorin will deliver I think.
 

sc0la

Unconfirmed Member
It will probably be easier to see in motion and when you see more of the character. But Radagast just looks sort of like Gandalf the BrownHomeless
 
My anticipation for Wednesdays trailer is reaching new heights now.

Gollum looks fantastic, and I would hope Serkis gets his much deserved recognition for his work on the character.
 
That shot of Gollum is the first thing since that still of Neytiri from Avatar that made me pause for a second and remind myself I was looking at CG. Dat WETA magic.
 

Wiggum2007

Junior Member
"He was Gollum--as dark as darkness, except for two big round pale eyes in his thin face"

I've always thought they lacked that luminescence (they always looked as though someone was shining a torch on his face) that comes across in the books, and could have done with being more round (although I don't that would convey the menace as well).

I guess they just look too cartoony to me? I dunno
 

bengraven

Member
Edmond Dantès;42245380 said:
This was the scene that did it for most people.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeGBbm62M2I

You're absolutely right!

I wasn't 100% sold on the voice and I wasn't a fan of the pink skin. Back to the voice, Serkis sounded to me, at first, like a real amateur - I remember doing that same voice when I was a kid in the 80s.

But I was slowly being won over thanks to his facial expressions and that scene you linked sold me completely.
 

Edmond Dantès

Dantès the White
Interesting tidbit about the trailer's release.
MSN NZ tells us it’s getting the new Hobbit trailer FIRST. when will it debut? This Thursday, September 20, at 2am in New Zealand staddard Time. We expect the trailer to pop up elsewhere shortly afterwards. For those who aren’t good at time zones, that’s 10:00am EDT, 7:00am PDT and 3:00pm BST.
Seems to contradict what Peter said.
 
Gollum looks good, but his eyes take come getting used to.. they just look very cartoony in that a still. They look good, but they look cartoony. As said above, making them more pale would probably help it a lot but I understand why they are not.
 

Loxley

Member
Is a "brown" lower than a "grey"?

In a way. This is a grossly simplified explanation, but each of the Istari (the spirits sent by the Valar to Middle-Earth to defeat Sauron) were assigned a characteristic color to display their different "rank" of sorts within their order.

Saruman was 'the White' due to being the leader - as well as the most powerful of the group, grey for Gandalf, brown for Radagast, and sea-blue for Alatar and Pallando - or 'The Blue Wizards' as they're sometimes called.

31099312117688465013012.jpg


After Gandalf died fighting the Balrog, he was essentially "promoted" to Gandalf the White by the Valar. By that point Saruman had pretty much defected from the Order and was trying to take the Ring for himself, and was kicked out by the Valar.
 
In a way. This is a grossly simplified explanation, but each of the Istari (the spirits sent by the Valar to Middle-Earth to defeat Sauron) were assigned a characteristic color to display their different "rank" of sorts within their order.

Saruman was 'the White' due to being the leader - as well as the most powerful of the group, grey for Gandalf, brown for Radagast, and sea-blue for Alatar and Pallando - or 'The Blue Wizards' as they're sometimes called.

31099312117688465013012.jpg


After Gandalf died fighting the Balrog, he was essentially "promoted" to Gandalf the White by the Valar. By that point Saruman had pretty much defected from the Order and was trying to take the Ring for himself, and was kicked out by the Valar.

Ok, so heres a question- Are they purely spirits, or do they have an actual human identity as well? I mean, do they recall being spirits, etc?
 

xenist

Member
Ok, so heres a question- Are they purely spirits, or do they have an actual human identity as well? I mean, do they recall being spirits, etc?

The "power rankings" in Tolkien go like this:

At the top is Illuvatar (or Eru). Basically god.

Below him are the Ainur. His angels. They're unofficially separated in two groups. The Valar (archangels) and the Maiar (lesser angels) and are usually associated with a Vala. Morgoth (or Melkor as is his proper name) was a Vala. Sauron was a Maia. The wizards, called Istari, were Maiar sent to Middle Earth by the Valar to help the Children of Illuvatar (humans and elves, dwarves are a special case) combat Sauron (a Maiar himself). Why five of them against one? Because they were strictly forbiden by the Valar to directly use their powers and were ony to act as aides and counselors to the mortal races.

So Gandalf (his name among the uncultured northeners, Mithrandir for the higher born ones and Olorin for the High Elves and the Ainur) and the others are incarnations of lesser angels basically. They are made of flesh, they can be hurt and they can take pleasure in things like food and drink and weed, but they do not age and they cannot die. When the balrog mortally wounded Gandalf at Khazad Dum, Manwe (the Lord of the Valar) basically sent him back to finish his work. They know who they are and at least Gandalf remembers everything. Saruman too, but chose to pervert his mission into one of control and subjugation. Radagast (the brown wizard) went native and couldn't give a shit about this whole thing and the blue wizards (Atanar and Pallando) went into the east and no one ever heard of them again.
 

jaxword

Member
It will probably be easier to see in motion and when you see more of the character. But Radagast just looks sort of like Gandalf the BrownHomeless

Which is fitting, given that they're supposed to essentially be vagabonds, wandering the countryside and doing good, not holed up in towers ruling the peasants.
 

Edmond Dantès

Dantès the White
Ok, so heres a question- Are they purely spirits, or do they have an actual human identity as well? I mean, do they recall being spirits, etc?
The Wizards (Istari) are Ainu of Maiar (equivalent of lesser angels) rank. The Ainu are spirits that Eru Iluvatar (God in Tolkien's legendarium) created. The very first beings. After the creation of Arda the Valar (most powerful of the Ainu, equivalent of the Archangels) descended into Arda to shape it into something habitable for the coming of the Children of Iluvatar (elves, men; dwarves were regarded as stepchildren of Eru). The Valar and Maiar could thus take on the whatever form they deemed fit for whatever purpose. The likes of the Valar could even take on the forms of mountains etc.

However, if a body which they took was destroyed it would become increasingly difficult to create a new one to house themselves as Sauron eventually found out. In some cases they were bound to certain bodies by Eru until those bodies were destroyed (Melkor in his Dark Lord Visage for example).

The Wizard's 'old man' raiment was chosen for them by the Valar. The point was to restrict their powers and for them to not appear to powerful to the inhabitants of Middle-earth in the Third Age. They were sages, guides sent to aid the free peoples of Middle-earth. Not warriors sent to take on Sauron directly with brute force.

Sauron on the other hand was never restricted in this regard and his original raiment was of a very beautiful form. At the height of his power with his original body that he had crafted for himself, which was capable of shape shifting (snake, werewolf, bat) and with the One Ring, he was more powerful than his master (Melkor) at his lowest at the end of the First Age. That in itself is quite something as Melkor was second only to god at one point in time.

The Valar were far beyond the Maiar in terms of inherent might and power. It is said that even the most powerful of the Maiar (including Gandalf and Eönwë) would have succumbed to the will of the One Ring before the Crack of Doom just as Frodo did and Isildur before him and the elves would have shared the same fate. The Valar would have had no such problem. The One Ring would have no effect on them, as it was created by a lesser being than them.

That's one reason why some people theorise that Tom Bombadil may have been a Valar, not just a mere Maiar. But that's a whole nother complicated issue.

And to your final point, yes, they knew exactly who they were and what their purpose was. They knew their original names, which they used in Valinor and they most likely spoke to each other in Valarin, the language of the Valar. To quote Pengolodh "The making of a lambe [language] is the chief character of an Incarnate. The Valar, having arrayed them in this manner, would inevitably during their long sojourn in Arda have made a lambe for themselves"

The original names of the five wizards.

Saruman was known as Curumo.
Gandalf was known as Olorin.
Radagast was known as Aiwendil.
Alatar was known as Morinehtar.
Pallando was known as Rómestámo.
 

Dmax3901

Member
From the Hobbit Facebook page:

"To continue our celebration of Tolkien Week (Hobbit Day is only 4 days away!), we will be unveiling the new trailer for The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey tomorrow, September 19th, at 7am PT / 10am ET on iTunes Movie Trailers.

Here's an exclusive still from the trailer just for our Facebook fans – can you guess which scene it's from?"

 

Edmond Dantès

Dantès the White
From the Hobbit Facebook page:

"To continue our celebration of Tolkien Week (Hobbit Day is only 4 days away!), we will be unveiling the new trailer for The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey tomorrow, September 19th, at 7am PT / 10am ET on iTunes Movie Trailers.

Here's an exclusive still from the trailer just for our Facebook fans – can you guess which scene it's from?"
Rivendell looks beautiful.

For Europe the trailer is released at 4pm
For the UK, 3pm.
 
From the Hobbit Facebook page:

"To continue our celebration of Tolkien Week (Hobbit Day is only 4 days away!), we will be unveiling the new trailer for The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey tomorrow, September 19th, at 7am PT / 10am ET on iTunes Movie Trailers.

Here's an exclusive still from the trailer just for our Facebook fans – can you guess which scene it's from?"

I love the reflection in the water with the steps descending into it.

1 more day!

Wonder what Bilbo is looking up at?
 

JDdelphin

Member
Benedict Cumberbatch will be voicing Smaug, huh?

That is interesting...

The Rankin/Bass version was very good, imo.

Very well voiced by rumble voice Richard Boone, and I really liked the look of him (kinda reptilian but with fur and ears. Very unique.)

I'm excited to see what they come up with
 

Ezio

Member
Edmond Dantès;42262548 said:
The Wizards (Istari) are Ainu of Maiar (equivalent of lesser angels) rank. The Ainu are spirits that Eru Iluvatar (God in Tolkien's legendarium) created. The very first beings. After the creation of Arda the Valar (most powerful of the Ainu, equivalent of the Archangels) descended into Arda to shape it into something habitable for the coming of the Children of Iluvatar (elves, men; dwarves were regarded as stepchildren of Eru). The Valar and Maiar could thus take on the whatever form they deemed fit for whatever purpose. The likes of the Valar could even take on the forms of mountains etc.

However, if a body which they took was destroyed it would become increasingly difficult to create a new one to house themselves as Sauron eventually found out. In some cases they were bound to certain bodies by Eru until those bodies were destroyed (Melkor in his Dark Lord Visage for example).

The Wizard's 'old man' raiment was chosen for them by the Valar. The point was to restrict their powers and for them to not appear to powerful to the inhabitants of Middle-earth in the Third Age. They were sages, guides sent to aid the free peoples of Middle-earth. Not warriors sent to take on Sauron directly with brute force.

Sauron on the other hand was never restricted in this regard and his original raiment was of a very beautiful form. At the height of his power with his original body that he had crafted for himself, which was capable of shape shifting (snake, werewolf, bat) and with the One Ring, he was more powerful than his master (Melkor) at his lowest at the end of the First Age. That in itself is quite something as Melkor was second only to god at one point in time.

The Valar were far beyond the Maiar in terms of inherent might and power. It is said that even the most powerful of the Maiar (including Gandalf and Eönwë) would have succumbed to the will of the One Ring before the Crack of Doom just as Frodo did and Isildur before him and the elves would have shared the same fate. The Valar would have had no such problem. The One Ring would have no effect on them, as it was created by a lesser being than them.

That's one reason why some people theorise that Tom Bombadil may have been a Valar, not just a mere Maiar. But that's a whole nother complicated issue.

And to your final point, yes, they knew exactly who they were and what their purpose was. They knew their original names, which they used in Valinor and they most likely spoke to each other in Valarin, the language of the Valar. To quote Pengolodh "The making of a lambe [language] is the chief character of an Incarnate. The Valar, having arrayed them in this manner, would inevitably during their long sojourn in Arda have made a lambe for themselves"

The original names of the five wizards.

Saruman was known as Curumo.
Gandalf was known as Olorin.
Radagast was known as Aiwendil.
Alatar was known as Morinehtar.
Pallando was known as Rómestámo.

Care to go into anymore detail about Tom? or point me in a direction. This history stuff about the Valar etc. is pretty interesting stuff!
 

Edmond Dantès

Dantès the White
Care to go into anymore detail about Tom? or point me in a direction. This history stuff about the Valar etc. is pretty interesting stuff!
My explanation from a different thread:


Tolkien had the following to say about Tom from The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien:
As a story, I think it is good that there should be a lot of things unexplained (especially if an explanation actually exists);
... And even in a mythical Age there must be some enigmas, as there always are. Tom Bombadil is one (intentionally).
The story is cast in terms of a good side, and a bad side, beauty against ruthless ugliness, tyranny against kingship, moderated freedom against compulsion that has long lost any object save mere power, and so on; but both sides in some degree, conservative or destructive, want a measure of control. But if you have, as it were taken 'a vow of poverty', renounced control, and take delight in things for themselves without reference to yourself, watching, observing, and to some extent knowing, then the question of the rights and wrongs of power and control might become utterly meaningless to you, and the means of power quite valueless.
Tom represented Botany and Zoology (as sciences) and Poetry as opposed to Cattle-breeding and Agriculture and practicality.
The general consensus among Tolkien scholars is that Tom was an Ainu without rank, neither Vala or Maia, but a free spirit who descended into Arda and took abode in Middle-Earth after it was first created. He took no real notice of Melkor's war with the Elves or Sauron's war with the Children of Iluvatar. A care free spirit. Some have suggested that he is a physical embodiment of Eru himself, but I don't buy into that theory.
So, I'll add something new that I picked up from the recent Tolkien Society Event (Return of the Ring). The theory as stated in a lecture from a fellow Tolkien scholar is that Tom was a byproduct of the initial weaving of Arda when Melkor's discord directly opposed Eru's will. Melkor's theme took precedence the second time out of the three occasions hence Ungoliant was created (the very antithesis to light; the darkness that consumes light). Then Eru rebounded and his wrath was known to all the Ainu and his chords triumphed over Melkor's discord hence Tom was created (the antithesis of the dark; the light, incorruptible).

Ungoliant would later be influenced by Melkor and consume the very essence of Telperion and Laurelin, The Two Trees of Valinor and Tom would carry on inhabiting Middle-earth in his unique manner unperturbed by anything around him and aiding those in need.
The text in bold are theories, the quotes at the beginning are from Tolkien himself.
 

Ezio

Member
Thanks Edmond! So, is it safe to say that whatever Tom was, since there is no clear cut answer. That Gandalf at least knew he was a "person" of great power, being that the One Ring had no effect on him?
 

agrajag

Banned
Thanks Edmond! So, is it safe to say that whatever Tom was, since there is no clear cut answer. That Gandalf at least knew he was a "person" of great power, being that the One Ring had no effect on him?

Yes, he knew, it says that much in The Fellowship of the Ring.
 

Ezio

Member
Yes, he knew, it says that much in The Fellowship of the Ring.

So seeing as Gandalf etc knew who they were, would they not be able to tell that Tom was an Ainu then? I'm still trying to get all of my facts straight, sorry for the silly questions guys.
 

Edmond Dantès

Dantès the White
So seeing as Gandalf etc knew who they were, would they not be able to tell that Tom was an Ainu then? I'm still trying to get all of my facts straight, sorry for the silly questions guys.
Gandalf was the wisest of the Maiar, so presumably he knew what Tom really was and he realised how little Tom cared about the War of the Ring, hence his dialogue at The Council of Elrond.

As Tolkien said, "If you have, as it were taken 'a vow of poverty', renounced control, and take delight in things for themselves without reference to yourself, watching, observing, and to some extent knowing, then the question of the rights and wrongs of power and control might become utterly meaningless to you, and the means of power quite valueless."

The major issues at hand in Middle-earth meant nothing to Old Tom.
 

Ezio

Member
Edmond Dantès;42270300 said:
Gandalf was the wisest of the Maiar, so presumably he knew what Tom really was and he realised how little Tom cared about the War of the Ring, hence his dialogue at The Council of Elrond.

Gotcha, thanks for clearing that bit up. I realize why they didn't put him in any of the LOTR movies, but it still would've been kinda neat to see how he was portrayed in them.
 
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