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[3N16MA]

They're absolutely not, though.

Someone who came up 100 times with runners in scoring position and got a hit 80 times is significantly more valuable than someone who came up 400 times with runners in scoring position and only got a hit 100 of those times. The fact that the first player may only have 60 RBIs and the second player may have 175 RBIs - and people valuing the 2nd player over the 1st - is the issue with RBIs, whereas BA with RISP would show that the first player had an 0.800 BA with RISP while the 2nd player had a 0.200 BA with RISP.

How do you know who is more valuable by simply looking BA/RISP? Do you know how many were on base? How many outs? The result of the hit?

BA/RISP is a poor stat to assign value to any player. There are stats that do a much better job in relaying run expectancy and run creation.

 

[Earthbound64]

BA w/RISP is just a smaller, less useful sample size of an already disfavored stat.

BA/RISP is a poor stat to assign value to any player. There are stats that do a much better job in relaying run expectancy and run creation.

That's not what I was posting about, though.
I was positing that it's a more useful bit of information than RBIs - which it is.

 

[3N16MA]

That's not what I was posting about, though.
I was positing that it's a more useful bit of information than RBIs - which it is.

You clearly posted this:

Someone who came up 100 times with runners in scoring position and got a hit 80 times is significantly more valuable than someone who came up 400 times with runners in scoring position and only got a hit 100 of those times.

You're assigning value to a player based on BA/RISP.

Having a higher BA/RISP does not make a player more valuable than another player with a lower BA/RISP. Having more RBI does not make a player more valuable than another player with less RBI. You can't isolate those numbers and say "Player A is more valuable than player B."

wRC+, wRAA, RE24, are all much more comprehensive and valuable in evaluating a player.

 

[Earthbound64]

You clearly posted this:



You're assigning value to a player based on BA/RISP.

I'm saying that the value assigned by BA with RISP is higher than that assigned by RBIs.
I made no argument about how much value it was - just that it was more than that of RBIs.

wRC+, wRAA, RE24, are all much more comprehensive and valuable in evaluating a player.

Again, I never said otherwise.

 

[TS-08]

I'm saying that the value assigned by BA with RISP is higher than that assigned by RBIs.
I made no argument about how much value it was - just that it was more than that of RBIs.




Again, I never said otherwise.

You framed an issue in a way no one else cares about. That's what I am trying to get across to you. No one cares that one is a proportional stat and one is a counting stat. The point is that both RBI and BA with RISP are examples of stats that do a poor job of reflecting value. You tried to drag us down into the weeds with you to hash out a distinction that I don't think anyone considers significant for this purpose. I don't know why you would do this unless you were trying to argue for the value of the stat or are simply trying to move the goal posts to avoid admitting you were wrong.

Edit - and I don't even think I would agree with your overall conclusion regardless.

 

[weekev]

Any Aaron judge super saiyan HR gifs?

 

[entremet]

Good to have another young stud on the Yanks. All is right in the universe.

 

[3N16MA]

I'm saying that the value assigned by BA with RISP is higher than that assigned by RBIs.
I made no argument about how much value it was - just that it was more than that of RBIs.

Reading the example situation you posted really doesn't convey that message.

If Player 1 hit 80 infield singles with a runner on 2nd and player 2 hit 100 HR with runners on 2nd/3rd, does BA/RISP tell us the full story? Would 0 RBI vs 300 RBI be more valuable?

 

[captmcblack]

Why are we even debating the sabermetrics here? Judge is tops in those too, lol.

He's just that damn good, by any version of any metric.

 

[Earthbound64]

Reading the example situation you posted really doesn't convey that message.

If Player 1 hit 80 infield singles with a runner on 2nd and player 2 hit 100 HR with runners on 2nd/3rd, does BA/RISP tell us the full story? Would 0 RBI vs 300 RBI be more valuable?

Sure, OPS with RISP would be better.
So would percentage of RISP driven in.
There are many things that would be even better.

One thing's for sure though - RBIs are worse.
I apologize that my post didn't properly convey that was my message - since it was.

This'll be my last post on the matter, since if people still aren't understanding what I was saying (and it's obvious that, like the post below, either they're not able to understand what I'm saying, or are being intentionally disingenuous about it), there's no point to going in circles on it.

 

[Friggz]

The casual baseball fans are really exposing themselves in this thread. Someone really mentioned BA with RISP as having any value? or at the least being a discernible skill?

Also lol @ stanton. his season numbers reflect a great 42 game stretch after the break. hes slugging 450 over the last ~25 games with a 340 on base.

 

[TS-08]

Sure, OPS with RISP would be better.
So would percentage of RISP driven in.
There are many things that would be even better.

One thing's for sure though - RBIs are worse.
I apologize that my post didn't properly convey that was my message - since it was.

This'll be my last post on the matter, since if people still aren't understanding what I was saying, there's no point to going in circles on it.

Assigning a superficial condition to a meaningful stat makes it virtually meaningless, at least with respect to identifying skill and value. That's what I don't think you are getting. In this respect, it isn't really any better than looking at RBIs or wins to measure these things.

 

[XiaNaphryz]

Why are we even debating the sabermetrics here? Judge is tops in those too, lol.

He's just that damn good, by any version of any metric.

Agreed, trying to downplay the year he's had is just dumb.

https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/aaron-judges-all-time-rookie-season/

These numbers compare favorably to the best ever. Nitpicking over the negatives doesn't change that.

 

[TS-08]

Will never not be blown away by Trout surpassing 10 WAR in his rookie season.

 

[Lazy vs Crazy]

Will never not be blown away by Trout surpassing 10 WAR in his rookie season.

More impressive is he was only 20. Judge is 25. Judge is only 8 months younger than Trout.

 

[DarkJediKnight]

More impressive is he was only 20. Judge is 25. Judge is only 8 months younger than Trout.

If only Trout can stay healthy. This guy is one of the best complete players to ever play the game. And he does it with class, unlike that tool Bryce Harper.

 

[clemenx]

Lol whats class good for. Trout could very well be the best player ever but a bunch of people wont ever notice because he's as boring as it gets.

 

[davidwhangchoi]

imagine Aaron Judge on juice, he'd be even better

 

[TS-08]

Lol whats class good for. Trout could very well be the best player ever but a bunch of people wont ever notice because he's as boring as it gets.

People don't notice him because he plays on the Angels. Aaron Judge is every bit as boring, personality wise.

 

[Friggz]

imagine Aaron Judge on juice, he'd be even better

probably not much different at all really.

 

[Joe]

HR #52: https://streamable.com/bj37s

• 484ft, 118mph exit velocity
• Ties Mickey Mantle's record for single-season HRs by player 25 and under
• Breaks Babe Ruth's record of Yankee single-season HRs at home

 

[Slayer-33]

What an animal

 

[TheDrizzlerJ11]

HR #52: https://streamable.com/bj37s

• 484ft, 118mph exit velocity
• Ties Mickey Mantle's record for single-season HRs by player 25 and under
• Breaks Babe Ruth's record of single-season HRs at Yankee Stadium

Lol, like it’s the same Yankee Stadium or something. Maybe that should read,
Breaks Babe Yankee record of single season home game home runs.

 

[TS-08]

He's the MVP. Don't know if the voters will actually give it to him, but he deserves it.

 

[arts&crafts]

Jays are so bad this year I like Judge though.

 

[Tall4Life]

Aaron Kudge is a total bum. He should go back to Basketball or whatever.

Spoiler

unless he joins his favorite team,
the red sox

 

[Diprosalic]

Cricket?