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[borghe]

why can't people accept that while gameplay is king, pretty graphics would be nice too?

Great gameplay + pretty graphics > Great gameplay

but this implies equality, which is clearly not the case..


great gameplay >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pretty graphics

whereas

great gameplay + pretty graphics > great gameplay

pretty graphics really don't add to the experience hardly at all. they're nice, and I will never disagree with that, but in this case, I would almost take portability and pickup and go gameplay over HD graphics. I've said it for a while, but even with owning every system except for PS3, DS for me is still king. Some of the most varied games of the past 2 years and the most convenient system to play.

mind you this decision will either be a defining moment for the industry or a "failure" on the level of, umm.. the FFVII spinoffs? Either way it will be interesting.

 

[farnham]

will we see a elite beat dragon quest agents game soon...?

 

[gamergirly]

Zelda is not an RPG in any sense of the word. If Zelda is an RPG, then Metroid is an RPG.

Of course Crystal Chronicles is an action RPG. So is X-Men Legends.

DQ9 is sounding like a Secret of Mana style game, an action RPG.

Some of the Zeldas ARE action rpgs.

 

[Drakken]

Have these details been posted yet?

http://gamesarefun.com/news.php?newsid=7333

-The game has been secretly under development for over a year now.

-DQ IX can be played through as a single-player game. It's stressed that since this is part of the main series, it wouldn't be right for it to just be an online multiplayer RPG. Thus, having great single-player is very important too.

-As if it wasn't obvious already, Akira Toriyama will be returning for the character designs. He says the DS has made things fresh.

-When you change your characters' equipment, the changes will be visible on their bodies.

-The 4-player online demo played at the conference took place in the starting town and nearby field.

-Monsters will be seen moving around on the field; no random battles. If you get close to one, it may approach you and attack. In battle, you'll be able to move around and attack enemies in real-time.

 

[Y2Kev]

I'm totally on your side of the fence here. This game has a hot style that looks like it's gonna use the DS pretty well, and online four player co-op is like sweet, sweet sex music. I'm there with bells on.

I've been starting to lean this way for a little while, but I think this announcement seals it: the DS is now officially the greatest RPG system ever.

Yeah, I actually like the concept. It looks like a lot of fun.

I guess my biggest "eh..." would be...why not do this AND a more traditional DQ on Wii or PS2/PS3?

...or maybe that's exactly what they are doing :lol

Just...what an incredible change for the series known for not changing.

 

[Error]

ok I caught with this thread and I gotta say...

this a HUGE blow to graphics whores all over the world and I love it

this game looks excellent and Im excited for this. I always said I dont mind a series changing as long as the game justifies that change by being ****ing fun.

anyway cant wait to play DQ9 coop with Scarlet and Trin good times!

 

[TekunoRobby]

ok I caught with this thread and I gotta say...

this a HUGE blow to graphics whores all over the world and I love it

this game looks excellent and Im excited for this. I always said I dont mind a series changing as long as the game justifies that change by being ****ing fun.

anyway cant wait to play DQ9 coop with Scarlet and Trin good times!

What, don't count me out. DAY ONE PURCHASE BRUDDA

 

[Dolphin]

Am I the only one that's seeing a similarity to Chrono Trigger here? The fight dynamics look pretty similar.

 

[LevelNth]

but this implies equality, which is clearly not the case..


great gameplay >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pretty graphics

whereas

great gameplay + pretty graphics > great gameplay

pretty graphics really don't add to the experience hardly at all. they're nice, and I will never disagree with that, but in this case, I would almost take portability and pickup and go gameplay over HD graphics. I've said it for a while, but even with owning every system except for PS3, DS for me is still king. Some of the most varied games of the past 2 years and the most convenient system to play.

mind you this decision will either be a defining moment for the industry or a "failure" on the level of, umm.. the FFVII spinoffs? Either way it will be interesting.

The problem is people think all graphics can be are pretty. Video games are a technology driven industry, and improved technology can make games better, plain and simple. DQVIII is a great example. Look how many people on this board have lauded the open world that the PS2 allowed, and how much that affected and improved gameplay.

To dismiss an example like this is a hell of a lot more short sighted than the above.

 

[AniHawk]

DQIX for DS? Holy ****. No one could've possibly seen that coming, although we all should have.

 

[itsinmyveins]

Some of the Zeldas ARE action rpgs.

It all boils down to what kind your definition of "RPG" is. I wouldn't call the Zelda-games RPG, or even action-RPG. It's an adventure game.

I bet Jaydubya's definition is more like.. Kotor, Baldurs Gate and more in depth-games, where you actually have som control over the growth of you character and suchs.

 

[jarrod]

why not..

and

If any game needs a DS/Wii second chance, it's this! C'mon SEGA/Chunsoft!

Zelda is not an RPG in any sense of the word. If Zelda is an RPG, then Metroid is an RPG.

Of course Crystal Chronicles is an action RPG. So is X-Men Legends.

DQ9 is sounding like a Secret of Mana style game, an action RPG.

Don't start this crap. Zelda may not have "stats" but it's bascially the game that jumpstarted the ARPG genre in Japan. To classify it seperately from Alundra, Mana, Crystalis, LandStalker, Gargoyle's Quest, the Quintet trilogy, Oasis, Rocket Slime, Kingdom Hearts, Monster World, Ys, Neutopia or other likeminded games (some of which also are stat-less, I'll let you guess which ones) is fundamentally disingenious.

 

[pollo]

well I wasted my money on 8, Im certainly not going to waste my money on this one.

 

[TekunoRobby]

DQIX for DS? Holy ****. No one could've possibly seen that coming, although we all should have.

Yeah pretty much, I think it was TOO obvious (or crazy, you pick). DS is the current king of Japan and Dragon Quest always comes out for the top platform. Simple equation.

 

[gamergirly]

It all boils down to what kind your definition of "RPG" is. I wouldn't call the Zelda-games RPG, or even action-RPG. It's an adventure game.

I bet Jaydubya's definition is more like.. Kotor, Baldurs Gate and more in depth-games, where you actually have som control over the growth of you character and suchs.

It definitely depends on your definition of rpgs :lol

 

[ziran]

i'm sure this has been said somewhere in this thread, but i wouldn't been surprised if dq9 is going to be, in essense, a brand, like the recent final fantasies.

i think we will be seeing a dq9 game on a home console, which one it appears on will depend on sales.

 

[itsinmyveins]

If any game needs a DS/Wii second chance, it's this! C'mon SEGA/Chunsoft!

I dunno what game that is, but the cover looks amazing.

It definitely depends on your definition of rpgs :lol

Yes. But I, personally, think JayDubyas definition is "more" correct than yours

 

[GitarooMan]

mind you this decision will either be a defining moment for the industry or a "failure" on the level of, umm.. the FFVII spinoffs? Either way it will be interesting.

Eh, I'm not sure it's that dramatic outside of Japan, I think the handheld market is dramatically different in NA (mainly in the areas of software sales and demographics). On a sidenote, it is interesting to see the continuing shift in the NA market , I used to play primarily Japanese games in the 32/64 bit era (and I suspect in general that was the case for a lot of people), that has shifted tremendously and I believe it will continue to shift this gen as the Japanese market continues to diverge pretty dramatically from the NA market.

As for the graphics sound issue, I think it is important for me and many other people, not because I'm a grahpics whore, but because I don't see any reason why these areas should stagnate when technology allows them to advance.

 

[Deku]

It's worth noting for the record I did play up DQ's adherance to its 'traditional' gameplay as something that is a hallmark of the franchise and in earlier discussion I noted it is the biggest thing against the franchise making it to the Wii. It now seems Mr. Horii is going to do something he hasn't done in a long time, reinvent DQ.

It does open the door for people, legitimate or otherwise to question the game's quality because its suddenly untested, but that doesn't diminish the significance of this news. The fact that this thread when from 1300 posts to 6700+ posts in less than 12 hours is a sign of how big the announcement is.

I really don't think people here get it. It's huge for DQIX to be announced on the DS and for reasons of history on a Nintendo machine. In terms of shock value this is up there with FFVII being put on the PS.

 

[AniHawk]

This game is gonna have to be really damn good for me to pick it up... DQ VIII was all kinds of awesome, so they've got my attention, but DQ VIII also had some pretty good VA, orchestrated music, and a fantastic overworld with constantly beautiful visuals to boot.

Why couldn't this game be on PS2 or Wii instead. :/

 

[speculawyer]

I don't understand how people can get so excited over a DS game. I've always viewed handheld games as a way to squeeze in some gaming when you can't get to a console or PC. They are handheld baby-sitters for kids and time-killers for adults stuck in line somewhere.

 

[Gigglepoo]

It definitely depends on your definition of rpgs :lol

Yup

I don't consider Zelda or Oblivion RPGs. I have some weird criteria where games not only require a certain amount of character development and customization, but the adventure must be driven by a strong narrative. A compelling story combined with a large cast of diverse characters are two elements that must be included in every RPG... in my opinion. So Zelda, which doesn't have a strong story or characters, and Oblivion, which is driven by the need to explore and partake in combat, are not RPGs.

 

[demonkid666]

So how many games does Square-Enix have in development for DS right now?

 

[Y2Kev]

You don't consider OBLIVION an rpg?

 

[jett]

blame Sony for ****ing up the PS3, not Square Enix for making a sound business decision.

Anyway there's always the X360 so what are you worried about?

According to SE this shit has been in development for over a year. Why should we blame Sony and PS3?

 

[Avalon]

I really don't think people here get it. It's huge for DQIX to be announced on the DS and for reasons of history on a Nintendo machine. In terms of shock value this is up there with FFVII being put on the PS.

True, but the switch to Playstation was for the sake of breaking limitations.

The DS is a huge step back in terms of what they can do.

 

[Mashing]

I fail to see how making Dragon Quest more like Diablo is a problem. The Diablo series is about the most addictive series of all time. I'm REALLY stoked for DQIX now.

 

[AniHawk]

I don't understand how people can get so excited over a DS game. I've always viewed handheld games as a way to squeeze in some gaming when you can't get to a console or PC. They are handheld baby-sitters for kids and time-killers for adults stuck in line somewhere.

I see handhelds as the way to play games you can't otherwise find anymore. It's not like anyone actually makes 2D Super Mario Bros/Sonic/Ghouls and Ghosts/Earthworm Jim games anymore. You're thinking of shovelware like most console ports... but even then you might find an occasional gem (like how Rayman 3 for the GBA was an actual 2D Rayman platformer).

 

[Error]

-DQ IX can be played through as a single-player game. It's stressed that since this is part of the main series, it wouldn't be right for it to just be an online multiplayer RPG. Thus, having great single-player is very important too.

it's essentially DQ1 but with a realtime battle system instead of turn based

-As if it wasn't obvious already, Akira Toriyama will be returning for the character designs. He says the DS has made things fresh.

obviously

-When you change your characters' equipment, the changes will be visible on their bodies.

hawtness hawtness one thing I really liked in FF3 DS was the costume change depending on the job so this is awesome!

-The 4-player online demo played at the conference took place in the starting town and nearby field.

online coop is hot no matter what way you slice it

-Monsters will be seen moving around on the field; no random battles. If you get close to one, it may approach you and attack. In battle, you'll be able to move around and attack enemies in real-time.

this is probably the biggest change the series has seen since well the first DQ1 Im excited and Im sure Horii is going to make one excellent game.

 

[MasterMFauli]

I don't understand how people can get so excited over a DS game. I've always viewed handheld games as a way to squeeze in some gaming when you can't get to a console or PC. They are handheld baby-sitters for kids and time-killers for adults stuck in line somewhere.

That´s racism :-/

 

[Deku]

As for the graphics sound issue, I think it is important for me and many other people, not because I'm a grahpics whore, but because I don't see any reason why these areas should stagnate when technology allows them to advance.

Well the series designer was very clear in saying he doesn't subscribe to the tech race in its current incarnation.

Business matters aside, that is, DQIX on the DS is going to make a fortune, this is clearly a signal by Horii that he could care less what people think about the graphics. And in fact, the japanese boards are not very concerned about graphics/platform switch. The discussion has been on the new gameplay elements.

This line of argument you are presenting is really native only on places like GAF, where suddenly, there's about a 200% fold increase in hardcore RPG fans professing disappointment over the platform IX is being released on and the graphics.

I find that very amusing.

 

[Gigglepoo]

You don't consider OBLIVION an rpg?

Nope, I explained why. It's an adventure game to me. The focal point of the game is combat and exploration. Story and character development are thrown in the backseat. I understand most people don't agree with this criteria, but it seems pretty solid to me.

For instance, where would one classify Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas? You can level up your stats throughout the game and it has a strong story with a diverse cast of characters. Is it an RPG? Nope, because the focal point is mayhem and carnage. One does not play GTA (or at least I don't) to see the story; you play GTA because it's fun to steal cars and shoot people.

 

[MasterMFauli]

You don't consider OBLIVION an rpg?

Yeah, what?!?

There are western-RPGs and jap-RPGs.

 

[DeEJaYMiND]

pufff... 7 hours later i got to the end :lol Great news

 

[itsinmyveins]

Yup

I don't consider Zelda or Oblivion RPGs. I have some weird criteria where games not only require a certain amount of character development and customization, but the adventure must be driven by a strong narrative. A compelling story combined with a large cast of diverse characters are two elements that must be included in every RPG... in my opinion. So Zelda, which doesn't have a strong story or characters, and Oblivion, which is driven by the need to explore and partake in combat, are not RPGs.

A strong narrative often kills a lot of freedom, which (imho) pretty much works against the point of RPG's (a lot of freedom within the games boundaries, then). Instead of freedom of choice, it will force you to play an already made up story with little or no real consequences depending on your choices during the game. RPG, I assume, comes from the paper-games, where YOUR choice is the driving force behind the story that will be made up along the way.

But I prefer strong narrative over a half-assed story which works as an excuse for in-game freedom

 

[MrSardonic]

-The game has been secretly under development for over a year now.

-DQ IX can be played through as a single-player game. It's stressed that since this is part of the main series, it wouldn't be right for it to just be an online multiplayer RPG. Thus, having great single-player is very important too.

-As if it wasn't obvious already, Akira Toriyama will be returning for the character designs. He says the DS has made things fresh.

-When you change your characters' equipment, the changes will be visible on their bodies.

-The 4-player online demo played at the conference took place in the starting town and nearby field.

-Monsters will be seen moving around on the field; no random battles. If you get close to one, it may approach you and attack. In battle, you'll be able to move around and attack enemies in real-time.

nice

 

[Reilly]

When you change your characters' equipment, the changes will be visible on their bodies.

Why couldn't this be done on PS2?

 

[jarrod]

Yes. But I, personally, think JayDubyas definition is "more" correct than yours

So, out of the Alundra, Mana, Crystalis, LandStalker, Gargoyle's Quest, Quintet trilogy, Oasis, Rocket Slime, Kingdom Hearts, Monster World, Ys, Neutopia, Xanadu, Popful Mail, Rayearth, FFCC, Golvellius, Socerian, Gunman's Proof, Xak, Guardian's Legend, Centy, Goemon, Marvelous, Neuiger and Zelda games, could you or Mr. Dubya please let me know which are "ARPGs" and which are just "adventure games"? Thanks!

Also, is Kid Icarus an ARPG? And if not, why not?

 

[borghe]

I don't understand how people can get so excited over a DS game. I've always viewed handheld games as a way to squeeze in some gaming when you can't get to a console or PC. They are handheld baby-sitters for kids and time-killers for adults stuck in line somewhere.

either you don't own a DS or you've bought some crap games for it. DS has hands down some of the best "traditional" genre games out there, as well as some of the best outside of the traditional genres.

True, but the switch to Playstation was for the sake of breaking limitations.

The DS is a huge step back in terms of what they can do.

ehh.. outside of digital audio, I don't agree. the series has never done real FMV, and up to VIII US never even did VA. I do see it as being a step back in a few minor areas, but for the most part this is a fairly lateral move IMHO.

 

[Log4Girlz]

Have these details been posted yet?

http://gamesarefun.com/news.php?newsid=7333

-The game has been secretly under development for over a year now.

-DQ IX can be played through as a single-player game. It's stressed that since this is part of the main series, it wouldn't be right for it to just be an online multiplayer RPG. Thus, having great single-player is very important too.

-As if it wasn't obvious already, Akira Toriyama will be returning for the character designs. He says the DS has made things fresh.

-When you change your characters' equipment, the changes will be visible on their bodies.

-The 4-player online demo played at the conference took place in the starting town and nearby field.

-Monsters will be seen moving around on the field; no random battles. If you get close to one, it may approach you and attack. In battle, you'll be able to move around and attack enemies in real-time.

For some reasont his sounds like a prelude to a DQ MMORPG.

 

[Crocodile]

As someone who spends most of their videogaming time on portables and has enjoyed many a portable rpg in the past, this is great news. I can understand how some people would be dissapointed though. Anyway keep it up GAF. This has been one of the best threads in ages. :lol

 

[Pope Benedict XVI]

Nope, I explained why. It's an adventure game to me. The focal point of the game is combat and exploration. Story and character development are thrown in the backseat. I understand most people don't agree with this criteria, but it seems pretty solid to me.

For instance, where would one classify Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas? You can level up your stats throughout the game and it has a strong story with a diverse cast of characters. Is it an RPG? Nope, because the focal point is mayhem and carnage. One does not play GTA (or at least I don't) to see the story; you play GTA because it's fun to steal cars and shoot people.

Saying that Oblivion is not an RPG is just as silly as saying that GTA is one. There is obviously something wrong with your criteria.

 

[Avalon]

A strong narrative often kills a lot of freedom, which (imho) pretty much works against the point of RPG's (a lot of freedom within the games boundaries, then). Instead of freedom of choice, it will force you to play an already made up story with little or no real consequences depending on your choices during the game. RPG, I assume, comes from the paper-games, where YOUR choice is the driving force behind the story that will be made up along the way.

Oblivion's story doesn't change regardless of what you do in the world... That's why it's not an RPG to me.

 

[AniHawk]

Saying that Oblivion is not an RPG is just as silly as saying that GTA is one. There is obviously something wrong with your criteria.

San Andreas was a role playing game.

You PLAY the ROLE of Carl Johnson.

 

[GitarooMan]

Well the series designer was very clear in saying he doesn't subscribe to the tech race in its current incarnation.

Business matters aside, that is, DQIX on the DS is going to make a fortune, this is clearly a signal by Horii that he could care less what people think about the graphics. And in fact, the japanese boards are not very concerned about graphics/platform switch. The discussion has been on the new gameplay elements.

This line of argument you are presenting is really native only on places like GAF, where suddenly, there's about a 200% fold increase in hardcore RPG fans professing disappointment over the platform IX is being released on and the graphics.

I find that very amusing.

Well, I think the interesting point outside of just this game is the continuing divergence of the NA and Japanese markets. However I didn't know that only the japanese boards could decide what we should be concerned about, thanks for informing me.

 

[Catchpenny]

Jarrod is right in that the next DQ game was going to play like this, no matter what the platform, and that it may have originally been in development for PS2. I love ARPGs too, but really hope this isn't a permanent change to the series. Should be a very interesting and fun experiment, though. Portable online Co-op FTW

 

[Y2Kev]

Oblivion's story doesn't change regardless of what you do in the world... That's why it's not an RPG to me.

Neither do the stories in DQ or FF...

 

[Gigglepoo]

A strong narrative often kills a lot of freedom, which (imho) pretty much works against the point of RPG's (a lot of freedom within the games boundaries, then). Instead of freedom of choice, it will force you to play an already made up story with little or no real consequences depending on your choices during the game.

But I prefer strong narrative over a half-assed story which works as an excuse for in-game freedom

It is a difficult balance, but it comes down to the driving point of the game. If, for instance, Oblivion had a really good story and compelling characters, I would probably have done main quests to see where it was going. As it was, I spent many hours playing the game but can't tell you a thing that happened. I never actually won it, just stopped doing random quests. I understand that a strict narrative would kill freedom, but, if you have a strong narrative that forces players to move around the world and try different ways of interacting with the environment, you create a game that relies on story for progression but still uses the Western RPG concepts that are so rewarding.

Knight of the Old Republic is an RPG. I could spend hours going around doing my own thing and messing with people. But I would always jump back to the story because I wanted to see where it was going. I would always talk to my crew because they were interesting. The story was the driving force of KotOR, this is not true with Oblivion.

 

[itsinmyveins]

So, out of the Alundra, Mana, Crystalis, LandStalker, Gargoyle's Quest, the Quintet trilogy, Oasis, Rocket Slime, Kingdom Hearts, Monster World, Ys, Neutopia and Zelda games, could you or Mr. Dubya please let me know which are "ARPGs" and which are just "adventure games"? Thanks!

Dude. I haven't played all of those games. I'm not a NERD!

Anyhoo. Alundra, Mana*, Kingdom Hearts, Ys* and Zelda are games I'd call adventures. But the games with *-mark has got some RPG-ingrediants. But experiancepoints doesn't make it and "pure" RPG. I mean, FF-games are considered RPG's. I'm fine with that. But I do feel they're somewhat of an crossover between typical adventures and RPG's.

Oblivion's story doesn't change regardless of what you do in the world... That's why it's not an RPG to me.

But it's not the main point of the game. You're not forced in any way to complete the main quest (except the in the beginning). In Zelda you NEED to complete the main story to get access to new areas and items. That story is an excuse for the rest of the world, as I see it. I've played Oblivion for about 30-40h. Only 3-4 hours of those have been spent on the main quest.

 

[Link1110]

-DQ IX can be played through as a single-player game. It's stressed that since this is part of the main series, it wouldn't be right for it to just be an online multiplayer RPG. Thus, having great single-player is very important too.

It's nice to see the makers of DQ caring more about offline gamers than the makers of FF.