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[Scrooged]

The mother lived WITH these two? That's what they just said, they didn't drop the baby off, they just left it there with her at the house. There is no way, at all, she didn't know what the hell was going on. COME ON.

Now they are saying she didn't know because she always stayed upstairs, lmao.

If this is true then holy shit.

 

[davepoobond]

A lot of this really brings home for me just how uneasy I've been with certain liberal talking points on security over the past few years.

The NSA collecting metadata is a huge overreach with no benefits, yet monitoring this kind of data did catch him communicating with a known terrorist, information which the FBI chose to ignore.

getting "too much information" isn't helpful either -- it might take your focus off things that are more important. bulk collection has some potential benefits, but human intelligence is always going to be better.

civil liberties also shouldn't be violated.

The police having military equipment is treated as a shocking overreach as well until an incidentvlike this comes along and brutally demonstrates that yes there is a reason for it and yes they do need it. I'm not suggesting they carry said equipment everywhere by the way, as I feel I need to say that ahead of time since it feels likely someone will not understand/misinterpret this.

its how they respond to situations that aren't terrorist in nature that is the question. why would you want the police to roll up in a tank for a robbery?

they should have access to the hardware, but they should use it appropriately. it has overwhelmingly not been used appropriately.

As for the refugees, until today I really did trust the President on this. 10k is a small enough number to properly vouch so I was on board... Now I'm less sure. They failed to properly vet her, plain and simple. Even if I ostensibly agree with the idea he's proposing, it feels hard to argue against that.

the woman was not a refugee. there are no refugees here. she came on a legal visa. the man was an American-born US citizen.

The mother lived WITH these two? That's what they just said, they didn't drop the baby off, they just left it there with her at the house. There is no way, at all, she didn't know what the hell was going on. COME ON.

Now they are saying she didn't know because she always stayed upstairs, lmao.

fuckin lady. wtf.

 

[ReAxion]

A lot of this really brings home for me just how uneasy I've been with certain liberal talking points on security over the past few years.

The NSA collecting metadata is a huge overreach with no benefits, yet monitoring this kind of data did catch him communicating with a known terrorist, information which the FBI chose to ignore.

The police having military equipment is treated as a shocking overreach as well until an incidentvlike this comes along and brutally demonstrates that yes there is a reason for it and yes they do need it. I'm not suggesting they carry said equipment everywhere by the way, as I feel I need to say that ahead of time since it feels likely someone will not understand/misinterpret this.

As for the refugees, until today I really did trust the President on this. 10k is a small enough number to properly vouch so I was on board... Now I'm less sure. They failed to properly vet her, plain and simple. Even if I ostensibly agree with the idea he's proposing, it feels hard to argue against that.

Where the hell do you get ideas like this.

Whoever he was communicating with wasn't a "known" terrorist. There was contact with five people suspected of having extremist views, and those investigations were closed. But changing just one word...

Nobody has a problem with SWAT teams being properly armed for cases like this, that's what they are for. People have a problem with normal street cops soldiering up at peaceful protests. These are different things.

No refugee is getting in without more vetting than you can apparently imagine. These policies are already in place and they work.

 

[LiquidSword]

I fully support gun control, but what sort of gun control would this of prevented? Looking at California's laws, everything people normally suggest short of an out and out constitutional ban was already in place. They bought the guns legally and modified them.

Only a 3 hour drive to Nevada or close drive to Arizona. It's why gun nuts always bring up Chicago and say look gun laws don't work. Yeah they don't work when you can just drive an hour outside of town and get whatever you want and bring it back.

 

[Downhome]

If this is true then holy shit.

There is no way in hell it isn't true if these guys actually mentioned something that I would assume they would try to actually hide.

Ugh, I need to go. Listen for me and recap the crazy, haha.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

I fully support gun control, but what sort of gun control would this of prevented? Looking at California's laws, everything people normally suggest short of an out and out constitutional ban was already in place. They bought the guns legally and modified them.

There was a national assault rifle band that expired in 2004. But this isn't just about this one case. We've had numerous mass shootings over the year and there's no telling if stricter background checks wouldn't have set off an alarm somewhere.

Not to mention that laws are made to prevent something in the future. Does it make sense to anyone to even allow the possibility of a terror suspect to get weapons or to allow online sales to go without a check?

 

[Calamari41]

There is no way in hell it isn't true if these guys actually mentioned something that I would assume they would try to actually hide.

It was mentioned yesterday at some point on the radio, too, I vividly remember. Because it's shocking.

 

[davepoobond]

they found the mother's social security card at that apartment right? it would make sense if she lived there to me

 

[Calamari41]

The apartment has been described as "an IED factory" by authorities, and these two clowns are arguing that the family never noticed a thing, even when touring the garage where they were made.

 

[Phreaker]

That was such a weird press conference. Especially the Britney Spears comment, WTF?

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

The apartment has been described as "an IED factory" by authorities, and these two clowns are arguing that the family never noticed a thing, even when touring the garage where they were made.

I thought that was the garage which was some separate unit. Not the house itself.

 

[Calamari41]

I thought that was the garage which was some separate unit. Not the house itself.

I'm not sure if it was attached or not, but they mentioned specifically that Farook would bring his brother at least in there to show off his projects

 

[80s Bad Guy]

What a couple of fucking douchebags those lawyers are. Trying to make these people out to be victims of some kind and only giving respect to the actual victims as an afterthought. Wonderful.

 

[Ether_Snake]

'Pledging allegiance to' is obviously very different from 'it's a coordinated ISIS attack', like Paris for example. Doesn't make it any more horrible for the victims and such and I don't want to downplay it at all, but it is different.

Not really, IS basically called out for all its supporters to carry attacks. It's not really expected that attackers have to have a physical link to IS. The difference isn't really that meaningful. What it means is the problem is that IS can make effective propaganda.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

Just as a reminder. The processes people go through for numerous kinds of visas are likely not as stringent which is why focusing on that process makes no sense. It should be the numerous other ways people get into the country that should be expanded.

I doubt this woman had to wait 18-24 months to get her visa and come to the country.

Not really, IS basically called out for all its supporters to carry attacks. It's not really expected that attackers have to have a physical link to IS. The difference isn't really that meaningful. What it means is the problem is that IS can make effective propaganda.

It makes a difference to authorities and experts. Coordinated attacks can be much more harmful than lone wolf sympathizers. It also makes a difference in terms of detection, it's easier to track and break up conspiracies.

 

[Anjelus_]

Any idiot can radicalize and attack people declaring allegiance to anything they want. It's like if you declare allegiance to Hitler and go attack a Synagogue, it's not the same an organized Neo-Nazi terrorist organization deploying cells with planned missions to carry out assaults. So far there's been nothing to make San Bernardino terribly different from the Boston bombing in terms of "perpetrator motivation/skill/organization." Or Oklahoma City, for that matter.

This sort of homegrown radicalism really sucks because it's basically identical to any other crime, except it has an ideological motive. But this is not the same as ISIS suddenly attacking us on the homeland, that would be another matter entirely. 9/11 was a well-funded and organized terrorist operation. So was Paris. That makes that kind of shit 1000x more dangerous.

 

[rjinaz]

Yeah just finished watching that conference on DVR and it really seems like those two lawyers are implying they couldn't have done this because there they were two wonderful people that were normal and loving. I mean they did it. But did they really? Don't make any judgements about them.

 

[bigmf]

ABC has posted a picture of her and this little nugget:

Malik came to the U.S. on what is known as a “fiancé” visa, which allows an American fiancé to petition for his or her partner’s temporary entry before marriage. For the visa application, the address she listed in her Pakistani hometown, ABC News discovered today, does not exist. Malik received a her Green Card this summer, U.S. officials said.

That's some good work boys.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/female-san-bernardino-shooter-tashfeen-malik/story?id=35589386

 

[Mahonay]

Obama was following an agreement signed by Bush with the Iraqi Gov. He didn't do a poor job at all. He was just following a signed agreement.

Ah. Welp.

 

[ReturnOfTheRAT]

Fake address. What a joke visa's are.

 

[Kurtofan]

Not really, IS basically called out for all its supporters to carry attacks. It's not really expected that attackers have to have a physical link to IS. The difference isn't really that meaningful. What it means is the problem is that IS can make effective propaganda.

The difference in terms of body counts and attacks is a major difference. In Paris you had a coordinated assault by a team of 8 terrorists on different locations.

 

[antonz]

The difference in terms of body counts and attacks is a major difference. In Paris you had a coordinated assault by a team of 8 terrorists on different locations.

This couple likely did not expect to get caught. The latest "Inspire" online Jihadi magazine in fact tells would be attackers to do exactly what the couple tried. Wear Masks and massacre a group then it has steps on how to escape and blend back in so that you can then at a later date do more attacks.

They are moving away from the kill and die style attacks. Couples mistake was they failed to kill everyone so their masks and escape were useless as survivors were able to say hey isn't it weird Syed left just before this happened.

 

[airmangataosenai]

The difference in terms of body counts and attacks is a major difference. In Paris you had a coordinated assault by a team of 8 terrorists on different locations.

Yes, I feel that this is an important distinction. Then again at the same time this point isn't always acknowledged. Every time this topic arises people bring up abortion clinic bombings, but all deaths in attacks on abortion facilitators over the past 40 years do not add up to the bodysuit out of San Bernardino.

Then there's the way people are grouping this in with other "Mass shootings", where when you check what the definition of what counts the whole thing becomes absurd. Most of you probably didn't know this, but in many of those 353 mass shootings you hear about, what gets the total to the magic number needed for 4 injuries/fatalities (A significant number of these incidents result in no deaths) is the attacker either killing himself or getting shot by police.

 

[Beer Monkey]

This couple likely did not expect to get caught. The latest "Inspire" online Jihadi magazine in fact tells would be attackers to do exactly what the couple tried. Wear Masks and massacre a group then it has steps on how to escape and blend back in so that you can then at a later date do more attacks.

Is part of that strategy to engage in a very public argument and then immediately return with assault gear and weapons?

Jihadi are fucking morons, if so.

 

[Toxi]

I'm not sure they planned this with ISIS or if they just were sympathizers for them.....

That's what I want to know.

 

[davepoobond]

Yes, I feel that this is an important distinction. Then again at the same time this point isn't always acknowledged. Every time this topic arises people bring up abortion clinic bombings, but all deaths in attacks on abortion facilitators over the past 40 years do not add up to the bodysuit out of San Bernardino.

Then there's the way people are grouping this in with other "Mass shootings", where when you check what the definition of what counts the whole thing becomes absurd. Most of you probably didn't know this, but in many of those 353 mass shootings you hear about, what gets the total to the magic number needed for 4 injuries/fatalities (A significant number of these incidents result in no deaths) is the attacker either killing himself or getting shot by police.

what is absurd about them killing themselves being a part of the count, exactly? they don't count because...?

suicides account for most of the gun deaths in the US. should we not count them as gun deaths because they are suicides?

 

[airmangataosenai]

That's what I want to know.

The evidence points to inspiration rather than direct collusion.

 

[Alcoremortis]

"I don't know, there's a lot of things we can do. Do you at least agree that the bare minimum would be to allow the CDC to conduct research on gun violence again after a 20 year ban? That would at least be a good start. " you did.

all the things you said are being done or have been done. what im afraid of happening is whats going on in chicago. guns are banned there. violent crime is through the roof there. Antoher thing to think about as well is most of these shootings happen in gun free zones.

Are you for real?

The "twenty year ban" isn't a ban on guns, it's a ban already in place AGAINST the CDC, preventing them from researching gun violence. A ban that should be lifted so they can recommend a strategy for dealing with it effectively, which could include proactive mental health care or something.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Honestly dude, it's a really tough situation. But coming out and saying we're safe from ISIS was nonsense from the beginning. I understand how important it is not to cause panic, but dealing in the other "complete safety" extreme was a bald-faced lie and he knew it. And now we know it.

If anything, I think he should be out there encouraging the Muslim community to be more vocal about condemning these attacks and educating one another on the absolute insanity that is extremism. The only way to stop an ideology is to halt it from spreading and the easiest way to do that is through education. That doesn't have to mean in the Middle East -- it can start at home.

We've seen very little of that thus far.

I don't think he should have said that but let's be real. ISIS in of itself is not athreat to the United States. That doesn't mean they can't commit small scale acts of terrorism like this one. But how exactly is the US or any country supposed to stop that type of terrorism? The days of massive calculated terror plots may be over given US intelligence capabilities, but what's to stop a couple Islamic terrorists from acquiring automatic weapons and shooting up a store, for instance? How do you stop such a small attack if no network is involved.

Mass shootings happen every month in this country, how do you stop Islamic extremists from getting in on the fun if they do it smartly (limited to no online or phone communication)?

 

[DeSo]

So is the title for real or is it being factitious with regards to the ISIS connection?

Edit: Oh this is a new thread, well shit.

Fucking Daesh. Fuck them.

 

[airmangataosenai]

what is absurd about them killing themselves being a part of the count, exactly? they don't count because...?

suicides account for most of the gun deaths in the US. should we not count them as gun deaths because they are suicides?

The issue is that this figure is being used both in the media and on this forum in the context of public safety. Suicide or the killing/injury of the perpetrator aren't really relevant in that discussion.

 

[Ljx718]

Are you for real?

The "twenty year ban" isn't a ban on guns, it's a ban already in place AGAINST the CDC, preventing them from researching gun violence. A ban that should be lifted so they can recommend a strategy for dealing with it effectively, which could include proactive mental health care or something.

i misread. i agree with that then.

 

[Jag]

Looks like the shooter also had issues with Israel and Jews. This is a quote from his piece of shit father:

He had to stay calm and be patient because in two years Israel will not exist anymore. Geopolitics is changing: Russia, China and America don’t want Jews there anymore. They are going to bring the Jews back to Ukraine. What is the point of fighting? We have already done it and we lost. Israel is not to be fought with weapons, but with politics. But he did not listen to me, he was obsessed.

 

[Smellycat]

What happened to the 3rd suspect? Many witnesses reported seeing 3 shooters and the police even confirmed it.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

Looks like the shooter also had issues with Israel and Jews. This is a quote from his piece of shit father:

This is a common common thing with Islamic terrorism. Theyve embraced the jewish-western oppression of Muslims conspiracy (never mind the fact that the US is pretty good friends with most south Asian countries where most Muslims live. Palestine with its daily scenes of death and violence is easy for these monsters to manipulate people with and get them to commit murder to "advenge it"

 

[Ether_Snake]

This is a common common thing with Islamic terrorism. Theyve embraced the jewish-western oppression of Muslims conspiracy (never mind the fact that the US is pretty good friends with most south Asian countries where most Muslims live. Palestine with its daily scenes of death and violence is easy for these monsters to manipulate people with and get them to commit murder to "advenge it"

There are far more scenes of death and violence committed against Muslims by other Muslims though, even Sunni against Sunni now. They don't use those much.

 

[ElFly]

A lot of this really brings home for me just how uneasy I've been with certain liberal talking points on security over the past few years.

The NSA collecting metadata is a huge overreach with no benefits, yet monitoring this kind of data did catch him communicating with a known terrorist, information which the FBI chose to ignore.

The police having military equipment is treated as a shocking overreach as well until an incidentvlike this comes along and brutally demonstrates that yes there is a reason for it and yes they do need it. I'm not suggesting they carry said equipment everywhere by the way, as I feel I need to say that ahead of time since it feels likely someone will not understand/misinterpret this.

As for the refugees, until today I really did trust the President on this. 10k is a small enough number to properly vouch so I was on board... Now I'm less sure. They failed to properly vet her, plain and simple. Even if I ostensibly agree with the idea he's proposing, it feels hard to argue against that.

The government was warned about the older boston marathon bomber brother, they decided to do nothing. They were warned about 9/11 for god's sake.

Chances are they have way too much information or that they are just super incompetent. Neither problem will be solved by increasing the amount of spying done on americans. People who have had access to the results of said spying have said they have stopped literally no terrorist plot at all.

I am not sure what the police having military equipment would have helped with either.

Is part of that strategy to engage in a very public argument and then immediately return with assault gear and weapons?

Jihadi are fucking morons, if so.

Not everyone is a suicide attacker. If you can convince people they can successfully escape and hide after a terrorist attack, you have multiplied your potential terrorist base by several hundreds.

It probably doesn't matter if you are lying to them, until it becomes obvious all the attackers are caught and/or killed.

 

[Frozenprince]

Releasing this info to the general public doesn't help anything. If anything it makes the atmosphere in this country even worse.

NEWS FLASH MEDIA OUTLETS AND STUPID POLITICIANS: Making people afraid of Muslims and making them terrorize them and drive them away from immigrating/emmigrating is EXACTLY WHAT ISIS WANTS. By doing these things you are literally doing more to push what they want than they are.

That's unbelievably sad.

 

[Toxi]

Just as with many other mass shootings reporting a second gunman (Auroa, Sandy Hook spring to mind), there was never any third shooter. The police acted as if there were because of the reports, as they should. They took into custody a man seen running from the scene of the final shootout, but he was just a bystander running for cover, and was released.

People are poor witnesses even at the best of times. When your life is in danger, I can imagine not paying too close attention to how many shooters there are.

 

[PatThePassive]

What a couple of fucking douchebags those lawyers are. Trying to make these people out to be victims of some kind and only giving respect to the actual victims as an afterthought. Wonderful.

I've heard that a lawyer involved is a sandy hook truther so let that sink in.

 

[Jag]

This is a common common thing with Islamic terrorism. Theyve embraced the jewish-western oppression of Muslims conspiracy (never mind the fact that the US is pretty good friends with most south Asian countries where most Muslims live. Palestine with its daily scenes of death and violence is easy for these monsters to manipulate people with and get them to commit murder to "advenge it"

I guess its easier to demonize the other side than to find fault with your own.

 

[SlickShoesRUCrazy]

Just read a "truther" post about this.

People are damn stupid and disgusting.

 

[devilhawk]

Just read a "truther" post about this.

People are damn stupid and disgusting.

What's the truther angle in this case?

A right winger thinking they are using Islamic terror to take our guns or a left winger pacifist thinking they used it as an excuse to go to war? Hell, I bet there are sadly both types out there.

 

[Jag]

What's the truther angle in this case?

A right winger thinking they are using Islamic terror to take our guns or a left winger pacifist thinking they used it as an excuse to go to war? Hell, I bet there are sadly both types out there.

Blame the government, Obama, false flag, 9-11, etc.

 

[SlickShoesRUCrazy]

What's the truther angle in this case?

A right winger thinking they are using Islamic terror to take our guns or a left winger pacifist thinking they used it as an excuse to go to war? Hell, I bet there are sadly both types out there.

Exactly what jag said. False flag.

That these people were murdered. That all the early "non paid" interviews stated it was 3 Caucasian athletic men in military gear, no mention of a small women.

That the two terrorists that were killed were actually killed before hand because why would the police place hand cuffs on dead people.

That sort of stuff.

 

[nilbog21]

So are we never going to know what the argument was about before the shooting?

 

[Jag]

So are we never going to know what the argument was about before the shooting?

His beard. Seriously.

The gunman who helped turn a San Bernardino holiday bash into a slaughterhouse had been made fun of by his co-workers for his beard, his family’s lawyers claimed Friday.

Syed Rizwan Farook was a devout Muslim who wore a beard for religious reasons and “usually shrugged off any jokes that were made about this facial hair,” attorney David Chesley said.

 

[andythinkpad]

How come everything comes down to Isis anymore

I just don't know if i believe it

It actually comes down to fundamental Islam, but are you going to say it?