Mr.NiceGuy
Member
Pristine_Condition
*claps*
*claps*
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Sony Controller to Be Named "Move." Bye bye Gem? truly outrageous
- Thread starter anonymousAversa
- Start date
Nuclear Muffin
Banned
gofreak said:
If you had a calibration process in a game, you could tell the PS3 how large the TV is (by moving the controller to each of the designated points on screen) and thus telling the PS3 where the position of the cursor is, relative to the Arc's absolute position. However, the game still wouldn't be able to tell if you are pointing the controller at that specific point on the TV (For an example where you are sitting down directly in front of your TV: If you were to hold the controller directly forward in the middle of the screen and you tried to point the controller in the upper right corner of the TV, the PS3 wouldn't recognise it since the physical 3D position would be telling the console that the controller is still pointed at the middle of the screen) making such a process useless for pointing purposes.
gofreak said:
Because it would be completely abstract. The whole idea of light gun style aiming is so that you can aim by looking down the barrel of the controller and shoot exactly where you are aiming. Using gyroscopic controls would give you no idea where you are aiming just by looking at the controller (It's like using an analog stick to move an onscreen cursor, but faster)
Something that just crossed my mind, but would Arc be distracting to use if playing at night with the lights out? Has that been discussed at all, and if Sony has addressed that somehow?
Just wondering. It may be something that can just be "tuned out" with enough use, though.
Just wondering. It may be something that can just be "tuned out" with enough use, though.
Nuclear Muffin said:
I don't think you need to point out where the TV is or anything with the controller.
Let me put it this way... ASSUME you have good orientation data, and good x/y/z data. ASSUME you know the camera is placed on top of the TV at its centre.
With that data, you can figure out where on a (virtual) plane pressed against the TV the controller is pointing at. You have the xyz relative to the centre of the top of the TV, and its angle, so you (metaphorically) draw a line extending into infinity along the controller, and calculate the intersection point with this plane around the origin of the camera.
Then if you calibrate the system by telling it the size of the TV and its aspect ratio, it can then tell you if this intersection point is actually within the bounds of the TV its sitting on. And if so, where within those bounds.
We can place a question mark over the quality of the orientation data for now, if you like, but assuming you have good such data, all the variables you need are there.
PSGames said:
That's an exceptionally unfair characterisation.
The wiimote was built first and foremost as pointing device. Not as a motion capture device. As a motion capture device it's technically inferior even to a DS3.
The motion+ introduced 'proper' motion tracking for limited periods of time.
The Sony motion controller is built with motion tracking in mind. You can get 'proper' motion tracking without the time constraints and reset-restrictions of the M+.
I think the jury is still out on how its 'pointing' abilities compare until we have more information, but you can say right now that it is a 'master' in at least one of its domains (i.e. in motion tracking) relative to the other offerings.
electroshockwave
Member
donny2112 said:Eh? Just curious, but is the disconnect greater or lesser than controlling a gun that you would need two hands to hold (like assault rifles and sniper rifles) with your thumb? We're still playing video games here, after all.
It probably sounds weird but I think controllers are far enough away from reality that I don't really compare the two. I always had the same issue with an arcade lightgun game like Time Crisis, for example, where it would feel awkward when I was using a shotgun or machine gun in the game but I was still using the handgun shaped controller. Maybe it's just me that's got this "uncanny valley of controllers" issue.
Nuclear Muffin
Banned
gofreak said:
But that completely ignores the orientation of the wand. With such a setup you could move a cursor relative to its absolute position, but there would be no way for the console to actually tell if it were being pointed in the direction of where the player wanted to point the cursor.
gofreak said:
Not really since the accelerometer inside the Wiimote is much more responsive than the one inside the sixaxis (300hz sampling) Plus the single axis gyroscope doesn't really do anything that can't be done with just the 3 axis accelerometer of the Wiimote.
Ahh, actually that's a good point. There's no way for the remote to tell the orientation of the device since the glowing ball is perfectly round. Drift might have to be corrected by software (which would mean that Wiimote + might actually be better for drift since it can be supported by the sensor bar)
electroshockwave said:
I got carried away reading your post and thinking about the arcade light gun cabinets and so on. It would be so nice to have haptic feedback on the controller. Recoil, button presses, etc but they would require more techiniques, more battery life, (compressed air?). Sylinder bolt action movement. Would be better than just rumbling on different strenghts... dreaming...drool.
Pristine_Condition
Member
Mr.NiceGuy said:
Thanks guys...glad I made y'all chuckle a bit today.
Nuclear Muffin
Banned
SamBishop said:
Yeah but there's no way to correlate the orientation data from the remote with whether or not the device is being pointed in the right direction as there is no point of reference (since the camera can only detect the position of the glowing ball, not the orientation)
Hopefully we'll get some hands on impressions and someone can put these questions to rest. I reckon this setup will not be the holy grail for those who want absolute positioning and good Wii style pointer controls, but I'll be glad to be proven wrong.
I've been really busy this whole week but it's nice to see this thread boom again over the days, just got caught up, lots of stupid comments and lots of hype building blocks (you Sam B).
Regret I couldn't be here this whole time, and will probably miss the live event, but either way it's going to be awesome, it'll really help me through the day/get my mind wandering.
t-minus 1:20
Regret I couldn't be here this whole time, and will probably miss the live event, but either way it's going to be awesome, it'll really help me through the day/get my mind wandering.
t-minus 1:20
Nuclear Muffin said:
Well my post asked you to assume good orientation data...so not really...
Nuclear Muffin said:
I'm not sure about sample rates. Technically your second part isn't true...though in the end it doesn't matter much - the gyro in Sixaxis fills in yaw data which the accelerometers in the Wiimote don't provide (it defers to data from the camera to calc that in combination with data from the accelerometers).
Regardless though, my point still stands...the wiimote was not at all designed for motion tracking of any real value. If you prefer 'it wasn't any better than a DS3', and the DS3 wasn't up to much here. It was all about the pointer.
The assertion PSGames was making, that the Sony controller was trying to do everything but not beating anything at any one thing, I think, is unfair. It has been clearly designed to address certain shortcomings elsewhere. It may have some shortcomings of its own, but it certainly has its relative strengths too I think.
Koren said:
Nuclear Muffin said:
You don't have drift with position, it's measured absolutely with every frame. That's one half of your 6DOF tracking that's always going to be accurate regardless of the length of a motion track, and that's a step up.
As for the other half, with the orientation, again, it depends on how they're doing it and how good the data is from that. If it is depending on just gyros alone though, I believe they are not quite so temporally unstable as accelerometers... let's assume though you do need resets. With the M+ you need resets on both translation and rotation every couple of seconds, and your bound by the lowest common denominator there (i.e. the linear motion tracking). With the motion controller, only one of those would need resetting (rotation), and its probably the one that stays 'good' longer - again, if resets are needed at all. Maybe someone with knowledge of quality gyroscopes can enlighten us as to what their behaviour is like.
Re. using the cam to track orientation...I would guess they're not doing this, but there are ways to doing that with the ball, ways described in some patents they've filed. Yeah, the ball's a ball and its silhouette is invariant with orientation, but you could disperse the light/intensity falloff from the centre of the ball in patterns that would allow to do some orientation 'stuff' with the camera, and filter with the sensor data to make your best measure of the orientation. I'm guessing they're not using this though...because I'm guessing the gyro data is 'good enough'.
UntoldDreams
Member
Good lord I hope they show a nice light gun game soon so we can put this to rest.
Without doubt I am certain *POINTING* has been addressed in the design to a tolerance level which is acceptable for light gun gaming and other gaming.
To say this is not accounted for is folly since we have seen on screen pointing and writing already performed.
How can it be said it won't work?
Without doubt I am certain *POINTING* has been addressed in the design to a tolerance level which is acceptable for light gun gaming and other gaming.
To say this is not accounted for is folly since we have seen on screen pointing and writing already performed.
How can it be said it won't work?
Metalic Sand
who is Emo-Beas?
I had no idea sony would have a conference today. will watch. What will it be about exactly?
GoodMorning
Member
Mad_Ban said:
lowrider007
Licorice-flavoured booze?
KZObsessed
Member
Blablurn said:
:lol