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[Justified]

Disclaimer: Im indifferent when it comes to transgendering. I think everyone should be treated with respect and accepted regardless. I apologize in advance if I get some of the terminology wrong.

Last time we discuss a Transgender Teen placing in track and field, we hand a respectful and level discussion. lets endeavor to repeat that.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1230629

This time it's a gender transition from the other directions.

To be fair to the plaintiff, the lawsuit was filed before the tournament begin. On the basis of the teen using Testosterone, and not after (and because) he won the title.

Due to the Texas State rules He has to compete against the other Females (League placement is base on birth certificate gender)

Beggs, 17, is receiving testosterone treatment as he transitions from female to male. The teenager from Trinity High School in Euless, Texas, won the University Interscholastic League (UIL) Class 6A Region II 110-pound girls wrestling title to advance to the state tournament. But it didn’t happen under the normal circumstances one would expect to win a championship.

Controversy ensued when Beggs’ opponent, Coppell High School’s Madeline Rocha, forfeited the match due to an impending lawsuit that was filed against UIL by a Coppell attorney and a parent on the wrestling team, Jim Baudhuin. Baudhuin submitted it 11 days before the regional final, alleging a risk of ” imminent threat of bodily harm” because Beggs is using testosterone. He wanted the UIL to suspend Beggs.

Baudhuin told the Dallas Morning News it has nothing to do with Beggs being a transgender male even though it seemingly has everything to do with it. Baudhuin’s daughter isn’t in the same weight class as Beggs and they would not have had to go up against one another.

“I respect [Beggs’ situation] completely, and I think the coaches do,” Baudin told the Dallas Morning News. “All we’re saying is she is taking something that gives her an unfair advantage. It’s documented. It’s universal that it’s an unfair advantage.”

Beggs would like to wrestle boys instead of girls, but UIL regulations state teens have to compete against the gender that is on your birth certificate.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/news/t...title-in-controversial-fashion-210305943.html

 

[Toxi]

Baudhuin’s daughter isn’t in the same weight class as Beggs and they would not have had to go up against one another.

So fucking petty.

 

[Cesare Borgia]

Obviously he shouldn't be wrestling girls, looks like they should change the law and allow him to wrestle boys...but they won't because they're assholes.

 

[Fuchsdh]

So fucking petty.

Not sure how they actually have standing then.

 

[ColdPizza]

This is tough when it comes to sports. If he was transitioning to male and taking the testosterone then he probably shouldn't have been competing in a female wrestling league.

The state should change the rules though.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

They should add hormone classes to weight classes in addition then.

I think the olympics do differentiate it by hormone levels in part over gender, which is fairly arbitrary and stupid.

 

[RMI]

idiotic rules.

In California we had a girl on our wrestling team who wrestled boys just fine, and this was at a Catholic school, for Christ's sake.

 

[BronsonLee]

They need to change those state rules

 

[Ivan A Nguyen]

I remember seeing this in my local twitter feed. The girl in the last match forfeited and that's how Mack Beggs won.

 

[thelatestmodel]

If he declares himself to be a boy, he should be competing against boys.

Competing against girls isn't fair to them at this point, I think this is pretty cut and dry.

 

[scamander]

This is tough when it comes to sports. If he was transitioning to male and taking the testosterone then he probably shouldn't have been competing in a female wrestling league.

Well, according to the OP, he is not allowed to compete against boys, because of the gender in his birth certificate. So, not his fault.

 

[Rayis]

The HRT he's undergoing is making his muscle mass higher than cis females, he should be wrestling against other males.

 

[Rumblebones]

I am sympathetic to the transgendered teen, but he shouldn't be competing against girls when he's got an unfair advantage over them.

The law is fucked and it's not fair to him either, but the girls he wrestles shouldn't have to pay for it.

 

[Subpar Spatula]

Can't blame the father but a lawsuit is a bit too far.

 

[scamander]

If he declares himself to be a boy, he should be competing against boys.

Competing against girls isn't fair to them at this point, I think this is pretty cut and dry.

The HRT he's undergoing is making his muscle mass higher than cis females, he should be wrestling against other males.

Did you read the OP? It's not long ffs.

Due to the Texas State rules He has to compete against the other Females (League placement is base on birth certificate gender)

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

A situation where the law is archaic and the lawsuit is a couple steps too far.

 

[Grimm Fandango]

Yeah this is interesting due to the use of testosterone. Not sure how I feel about it so I'll wait for more evidence/view points.

 

[kunonabi]

idiotic rules.

In California we had a girl on our wrestling team who wrestled boys just fine, and this was at a Catholic school, for Christ's sake.

Yeah, seems like the obvious answer to me.

 

[CyclopsRock]

Did you read the OP? It's not long ffs.

No one was saying it was his fault.

 

[Rayis]

Did you read the OP? It's not long ffs.

I did read it and I agree, Texas is being backwards as usual, he should wrestle with boys, just how HRT in MTF makes their muscle mass decrease and they should be allowed to compete against girls.

 

[Sephzilla]

This is a gray area where I'm not sure how to feel. On the one hand the law states that he should be wrestling against females, but the treatments he's getting are clearly giving him an unfair advantage. My gut is leaning towards the wrestler should be wrestling males

 

[Ray Wonder]

Did you read the OP? It's not long ffs.

I'm confused as to why you just called them out.

 

[ColdPizza]

Well, according to the OP, he is not allowed to compete against boys, because of the gender in his birth certificate. So, not his fault.

No, it's not, but he still has a potential unfair advantage.

 

[Phased]

He should definitely not be wrestling girls, the testosterone alone gives him an unfair advantage. With that said if rules don't allow him to wrestle other boys then there isn't much he can do if he wants to wrestle but to wrestle girls. He's just making do with the rules that are in place.

They'd effectively ban him from wrestling if they rule he can't wrestle girls but also can't enter the boys division.

 

[Mohonky]

I really don't know how you can approach this topic and remain 'politically correct' in referring to gender identity. Testosterone increases muscle and bone mass.

In any sport where strength or power is required a women can not compete against man, in some cases it would be outright dangerous to put a woman up against a man. So I suppose the question is, at what point do you physiologically say the transition is complete or at what point is the testosterone considered to be actually enhancing the female body physiologically to the point they could no longer be considered fair for other participants?

 

[rjinaz]

This is a failure of those running these things not adapting the rules for the times. He should be wrestling boys.

 

[dave is ok]

He would rather wrestle boys, seems pretty cut and dry.

The state should make it happen. Rewrite whatever rule you need to rewrite before someone gets hurt.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Do y'all realize that women have varying amounts of testosterone already, some unusually high. It's called hyperandrogenism, should they be barred from competing with women?

 

[Stinkles]

state paperwork plus sports parents would be bad enough without gender politics and science. what amess. fix the stupid rule.

 

[Caelus]

Beggs would like to wrestle boys instead of girls, but UIL regulations state teens have to compete against the gender that is on your birth certificate.

This is the important part.

My wrestling team in high school was co-ed, but even though wrestling involves some skill, bone and muscle mass (as well as how much weight one can realistically cut before a match) plays a big rule, so we had separate weight classes for identified-women and identified-men

 

[cubicle47b]

Madeline Rocha has to be extremely pissed off at Jim Baudhuin. He cost her a chance at state over a ridiculous lawsuit.

 

[Ray Wonder]

He would rather wrestle boys, seems pretty cut and dry.

They should make it happen.

If it were reversed, the same wouldn't be said.

The issues that occur in sports with identifying as a certain gender while having the biological build of another are definitely very complicated.

Do y'all realize that women have varying amounts of testosterone already, some unusually high. It's called hyperandrogenism, should they be barred from competing with women?

Hmm, so they should all be allowed to take testosterone?

 

[Toxi]

Madeline Rocha has to be extremely pissed off at Jim Baudhuin. He cost her a chance at state over a ridiculous lawsuit.

Am I missing something? Article says she forfeited.

 

[bigkrev]

This person should absolutely not be wrestling girls if they are using Testosterone

 

[cubicle47b]

Am I missing something? Article says she forfeited.

Because of a lawsuit related to her school.

 

[Reset]

Do y'all realize that women have varying amounts of testosterone already, some unusually high. It's called hyperandrogenism, should they be barred from competing with women?

Not really the same...the person in the Op is taking a substance to increase his testosterone.

He also wants to fight guys, so just let him.

 

[scamander]

No one was saying it was his fault.

I did read it and I agree, Texas is being backwards as usual, he should wrestle with boys, just how HRT in MTF makes their muscle mass decrease and they should be allowed to compete against girls.

No, it's not, but he still has a potential unfair advantage.

So are you saying he shouldn't be allowed to wrestle at all, as long as this policy is in place, even though it is not his fault?

I'm confused as to why you just called them out.

Because wrestling against girls is his only option aside from giving up on the hobby and I'm baffled some here are more okay with the latter "solution".

 

[Brian Griffin]

“I respect [Beggs’ situation] completely, and I think the coaches do,” Baudin told the Dallas Morning News. “All we’re saying is SHE is taking something that gives her an unfair advantage. It’s documented. It’s universal that it’s an unfair advantage.”

Get fucked. Eat all the shit.

 

[Platy]

Do y'all realize that women have varying amounts of testosterone already, some unusually high. It's called hyperandrogenism, should they be barred from competing with women?

Only if they are men.

The dude don't want to be there, but shitty transphobic law that probably don't even consider the existence of trans men don't allow him to wrestle otherwise

 

[Ray Wonder]

Not really the same...the person in the Op is taking a substance to increase his testosterone.

He also wants to fight guys, so just let him.

Would you say the same if he were transitioning MtF and wanted to wrestle with females?

If yes, how would you feel if this person dominated or severely hurt a girl during these matches?

 

[APF]

Do y'all realize that women have varying amounts of testosterone already, some unusually high. It's called hyperandrogenism, should they be barred from competing with women?

I always found this interesting: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7354882.stm

If yes, how would you feel if this person dominated or severely hurt a girl during these matches?

I'd feel just as bad as I'd feel for all the other girls who get hurt during their matches. Wrestling is a tough sport.

 

[ahoyhoy]

So are you saying he shouldn't be allowed to wrestle at all, as long as this policy is in place, even though it is not his fault?



Because wrestling against girls is his only option aside from giving up on the hobby and I'm baffled some here are more okay with this solution.

In the short term it's one person getting screwed by a shitty policy versus an entire slew of opponents who would be screwed by a shitty policy.

Sitting out seems the best course of action.

 

[Lkr]

If this occurred somewhere else, you might say the league or government would have him wrestle against other men in the future. Instead it's Texas, so they'll just blame this poor kid

"You beat me so I'm gonna sue you!"
Although tbh, if he was taking testosterone supplements and facing other males, it wouldn't be fair either to anyone. But hey, maybe it's time to teach kids that there's more to life than winning a regional wrestling tournament

 

[Ray Wonder]

Because wrestling against girls is his only option aside from giving up on the hobby and I'm baffled some here are more okay with this solution.

Uhm, they're just saying they disagree with the rule and he should be able to compete against males if he wants. That's open to discussion.

 

[HawksWinStanley]

So are you saying he shouldn't be allowed to wrestle at all, as long as this policy is in place, even though it is not his fault?


Because wrestling against girls is his only option aside from giving up on the hobby and I'm baffled some here are more okay with this solution.

I guess the first question I have is whether or not his levels of testosterone at a point where the health/safety of the girls is actually at risk. And if that answer is yes then why the hell are you more worried about a dude's ability to wrestle than the safety of the other kids involved? Yeah, it's a shit situation but I'd be pissed if someone was putting my daughter's health at risk just to appease someone else's desire to wrestle. It's a dangerous enough sport as it is.

 

[Dr. Benton Quest]

Only if they are men.

The dude don't want to be there, but shitty transphobic law that probably don't even consider the existence of trans men don't allow him to wrestle otherwise

I'm not sure I'm following. So a trans man and a woman could be extremely similar is size, weight, and testosterone levels but the trans man only wrestles in a men's league because of gender identity?

I'd feel just as bad as I'd feel for all the other girls who get hurt during their matches. Wrestling is a tough sport.

Come on man.

 

[Rumblebones]

Unfair as it is, the only way this will change is if the boy keeps wrestling girls so that their parents will push for a change in legislation. That's not fair to the girls he'll be wrestling but it's for the greater good.

 

[Platy]

Would you say the same if he were transitioning MtF and wanted to wrestle with females?

If yes, how would you feel if this person dominated or severely hurt a girl during these matches?

Would be even more OK in this case since taking out testosterone most of the time means their cis girls opponents would have more testosterone

 

[Squirrel Killer]

In California we had a girl on our wrestling team who wrestled boys just fine, and this was at a Catholic school, for Christ's sake.

I would guess that's a different situation. Most states and schools don't have a girls wrestling team and she was probably wrestling on the boys team because that was the only option available to her.

In this case, a transgender boy (for clarity, born female transitioning to male,) was forced to wrestle on the girls team because the governing body's rules go off of gender assigned at birth, even though he obviously should have been wrestling on the boys team.

 

[Ray Wonder]

I'd feel just as bad as I'd feel for all the other girls who get hurt during their matches. Wrestling is a tough sport.

Yeah? You'd allow it though?

Ok, lets say this practice becomes more popular. What's to prevent male's that identify as males from saying they identify as female, to compete in female sports?

You don't think a line should be drawn anywhere in the sports world?