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[Justified]

Disclaimer: Im indifferent when it comes to transgendering. I think everyone should be treated with respect and accepted regardless

Alaskan parents and their daughters are upset that a transgender student captured all-state honors in girls’ track and field.
Haines High School senior Nattaphon Wangyot took fifth place in the girls 1-2-3A 100-meter finals and third-place in the 200-meter race on May 27. The transgender athlete’s performance in Anchorage frustrated competitors and parents with the Alaska Family Council at Dimond Alumni Field.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/jun/6/nattaphon-wangyot-transgender-student-riles-critic/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9vpRIqRXM0

Comments GAF. This does make me think of that argument between Evilore, and HolyBaikal that got her banned.

If Men are indeed generally physiologically stronger than females; how can this inevitable competing be resolved? Does DNA or Identity take precedent in Sports?

This is her first season, with more training she could possibly blow them out.

Also she dominates the 200 meter, so she may be slow to accelerate, but her speed is top tier to those she compete against;

http://www.athletic.net/TrackAndField/Athlete.aspx?AID=9862534#/L0

 

[HStallion]

I'll be honest I'm not sure how this works with things like hormone treatments and what not. Wouldn't that offset the "natural" edge in strength or whatever that men normally have?

 

[entremet]

I'll be honest I'm not sure how this works with things like hormone treatments and what not. Wouldn't that offset the "natural" edge in strength or whatever that men normally have?

No. You cannot reverse those innate changes completely.

 

[Enter The 36 Chambers]

I mean men are physically stronger than women (I believe?) so this is a tough issue. Can't exactly separate people but is it fair for everyone to compete together?

I really have no ideas how to solve this tbh. Interested to see what gaffer's have to say.

 

[perfectchaos007]

Disclaimer: Im indifferent when it comes to transgendering. I think everyone should be treated with respect and accepted regardless




http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/jun/6/nattaphon-wangyot-transgender-student-riles-critic/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9vpRIqRXM0

Comments GAF. This does make me think of that argument between Evilore, and HolyBaikal that got her banned.

If Men are indeed generally physiologically stronger than females; how can this inevitable competing be resolved? Does DNA or Identity take precedent in Sports?

It's my understanding that the m-->f hormone therapy diminishes the physical advantages

 

[GeordieMark]

This is a tricky one. In this case, they are just kids so I wouldn't cause a fuss myself if my kid was a loser in this race. It's not exactly professional level so why upset people?

 

[Hagi]

Is it making the first and second place parents mad or only of those she beat? Personally I take no issue with transgender athletes competing with the sex they are.

 

[j-wood]

Yeah this is tough. On one hand, it's not really fair. On the other hand, can you really tell a transgender person they forfeit the right to play sports? Do you now have transgender only sports? It's tough.

 

[ItIsOkBro]

Wasn't a problem for the 1st and 2nd placers.

 

[Toxi]

If Men are indeed generally physiologically stronger than females; how can this inevitable competing be resolved? Does DNA or Identity take precedent in Sports?

I should point out that DNA already gives people an inherit advantage in sports without including transgender individuals.

 

[Justified]

I'll be honest I'm not sure how this works with things like hormone treatments and what not. Wouldn't that offset the "natural" edge in strength or whatever that men normally have?

Thats a valid point, but whats the limit to "hormone treatments?" Will Sporting Leagues have to start an acceptable hormone list? Also Does adding hormones dilute sports where natural gifts are suppose to be the deciding factor?

I should point out that DNA already gives people an inherit advantage in sports without including transgender individuals.

No doubt. I meant DNA vs Identity as in Gender selection

 

[Horsemama1956]

It's my understanding that the m-->f hormone therapy diminishes the physical advantages

But it doesn't eliminate it. I can definitely see how this type of situation can annoy someone.

This is a tricky one. In this case, they are just kids so I wouldn't cause a fuss myself if my kid was a loser in this race. It's not exactly professional level so why upset people?

Uhh, it's a state level track meet. Where do you think athletes start? Wins\placements can lead to scholarships.

 

[j-wood]

This is a tricky one. In this case, they are just kids so I wouldn't cause a fuss myself if my kid was a loser in this race. It's not exactly professional level so why upset people?

But that could affect scholarships and stuff for kids though right?

 

[Ultima_5]

It's my understanding that the m-->f hormone therapy diminishes the physical advantages

Would the amount/time they've been through therapy play into this? I'm not sure how long the hormone therapy last, but I presume it's over a long period of time

 

[Eumi]

I'm personally of the belief that unless you want to make all sports allow both genders to compete together you should go for biological sex over gender identity, since that's the reason why you separate in the first place. But then that almost bars trans people from playing sports in a way, so it's not exactly a perfect solution. The whole situation sucks but I'm not sure there's much we can do.

 

[Skellig Gra]

It isn't particularly fair, I mean look at Caitlyn Jenner, if she had transitioned in her teens you would have a gold medal mens caliber athlete competing with women.

 

[azyless]

They can follow Olympics rules and simply do a testosterone check, under a certain level you're allowed to participate with girls/women. I don't think there are any restrictions on female-to-male athletes.

 

[John Kowalski]

Wait, third place? I think suggesting unfair competition when she hasn't demonstrated overwhelming victories is a little far fetched.

 

[VindicatorZ]

This is is definitely a tricky issue. I remember this issue with a Transgender Female MMA fighter a few years ago. She was whoopin ass all over the place and people were pissed. I mean, how do you solve this?

 

[kiguel182]

Yeah, this is a tricky issue.

I don't have enough information but if men have certain physical advantages towards woman that the kid still has then it would seem unfair to the other girls.

On the other hand I can see how it sucks that she had to go race with men or that she can't race with the other girls. It's complicated.

 

[Your Entertainer]

Tough situation, but I echo others sentiments so far - innate biological differences can be quite stark, and it's difficult to decide how to approach this.

 

[GeordieMark]

But that could affect scholarships and stuff for kids though right?

Yeah, after I typed that I did think it's not as simple as I made out. It's a really difficult situation.

 

[DeathoftheEndless]

I think she should be allowed to compete. Making her stick to men's sports would be a bad idea.

 

[norm9]

Unfortunately, the transgender teen has an unfair advantage so no she shouldn't be in the same race. The solution? Beats me.

ETA- removed probably shouldn't to just shouldn't. It's unfair for everyone else.

 

[freoleo29]

Are there not enough trans people to have trans only competitions? maybe that could level the playing field.

Tough situation for everyone involved as there are so many different things to consider when it comes to competing for prizes

 

[GaimeGuy]

It also depends on when she began transitioning, if she delayed puberty, what her early childhood activities were, etc.

 

[collige]

As long as her hormone levels are within normal female ranges I see no problem with it. If it was really such a big deal you'd think she be blowing out the competition instead of getting a bronze.

 

[Iorv3th]

It's my understanding that the m-->f hormone therapy diminishes the physical advantages

It probably depends on the amount they are taking and what kind.

They can follow Olympics rules and simply do a testosterone check, under a certain level you're allowed to participate with girls/women. I don't think there are any restrictions on female-to-male athletes.

Curious to see any results for f-to-m and how they fared in the men's league or whatever.

 

[Zoe]

Thats a valid point, but whats the limit to "hormone treatments?" Will Sporting Leagues have to start an acceptable hormone list? Also Does adding hormones dilute sports where natural gifts are suppose to be the deciding factor?

Don't some sporting authorities already have guidelines in place? This has come up with regards to the Olympics before.

As for this story, her height is definitely giving her an advantage on the other girls. That's a tough hurdle (hurr hurr) for them to overcome.

 

[Haly]

I should point out that DNA already gives people an advantage in sports without including transgender individuals.

Pretty much. Do we screen everyone's genetics to make sure our children are on roughly equal physical footing during competitive sports?

No.

People will be blessed with genes regardless. This reeks of veiled transphobia and coddling of children (it wasn't fair, but genetics isn't fair).

 

[my6765490]

Now, this is a legit issue with transgender given what can be at stake at these events...

 

[Nathan_Drake]

This has been coming up more and more on sports talk radio. The usual go to is MMA participation and how it may actually cause harm. I mean they are already beating each other but i guess the new participants may be stronger?

I have no idea about hormones effecting muscle mass and strength but since 2 girls finished ahead of this runner wouldnt that show it is not automatically a benefit? Unless this runner had not trained and finished 3rd with less commitment and effort. That can happen in any scenario where certain people are more naturally gifted.

It is a tough subject for sure. Surprised there was no talk of sharing locker rooms. Thankfully, i am tired of that.

 

[Quonny]

This is a tricky one. In this case, they are just kids so I wouldn't cause a fuss myself if my kid was a loser in this race. It's not exactly professional level so why upset people?

I referree'd 8-9 year olds playing soccer in high school and college.

Parents are insane. The number of parents I've had to throw out because they either touched me, spit on me, or cursed in front of their children was embarrassing.

 

[itxaka]

Wasn't a problem for the 1st and 2nd placers.

This. I expected that the result was a steamroll of all first positions but she only got 3rd and 5th place? What about the girls that came over she, arent the parents mad at them for "reasons"?


Seems more like they dont like transgendered people and are looking for an excuse to make noise.

 

[Justified]

Wait, third place? I think suggesting unfair competition when she hasn't demonstrated overwhelming victories is a little far fetched.

Her placement doesnt seem to be the issue, moreso her involvement.

 

[Alienous]

The male/female sports distinction ought to be dissolved anyway.

 

[Alex_Mexico]

Yeah this is tough. On one hand, it's not really fair. On the other hand, can you really tell a transgender person they forfeit the right to play sports? Do you now have transgender only sports? It's tough.

Pretty much. I honestly do not have an answer to this very very complicated issue.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

It's my understanding that the m-->f hormone therapy diminishes the physical advantages

If that can conclusively be proven to always be the case, I think trans women should definitely be allowed to compete against other female athletes. If not, I don't think they should be allowed to. If trans women have a systematic advantage, allowing them to compete with cis-women athletes would be disastrous for cis-women athletes in the long run.

 

[Steeped in a Sea of Games]

Futurama was way ahead on this one.

As for the changes, it gets a lot harder to gain muscle under treatments and smooths out muscle tone, but it doesn't change things completely.

 

[Horsemama1956]

Pretty much. Do we screen everyone's genetics to make sure our children are on roughly equal physical footing during competitive sports?

No.

People will be blessed with genes regardless. This reeks of veiled transphobia and coddling of children (it wasn't fair, but genetics isn't fair).

Then why bother separating men and womens divisions in sports? Hell, just draw names and that person wins the gold medal.

 

[Kallor]

Wasn't a problem for the 1st and 2nd placers.

Time for girls to git gud, am i rite?

 

[Bulzeeb]

but my games has always told me that women are faster but men punch harder.

Joking aside,a quick search in google seems to indicate that the physical differences between the 2 bodies can really give the edge on some activities, for example you cans see some old comparisons here

http://www.vaughns-1-pagers.com/sports/track-records-men-vs-women.htm

it seems men run faster, women jump higher and they weren't able to compare arm throwing activities, I am at work but i would be nice if someone can look for more up to date comparisons

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

I remember a former female skiing athlete keeping her championship when she found out (at the olympics even) she was genetically a man and transitioned fully, she did get disqualified though from tje olympics. Erika Schinegger, now known as Erik, even became a father.

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

I should point out that DNA already gives people an advantage in sports without including transgender individuals.

The point stands tho, the fastest man will always be faster than the fastest woman.

It's irrelevant for a school event like this so the loser moms can stuff it, but it's relevant enough in pro sports.

 

[azyless]

They can follow Olympics rules and simply do a testosterone check, under a certain level you're allowed to participate with girls/women. I don't think there are any restrictions on female-to-male athletes.

Here's a more complete article about it since people in here don't seem to be aware of it. It's really not that complicated of an issue.

Now, surgery will no longer be required, with female-to-male transgender athletes eligible to take part in men’s competitions “without restriction”.

Meanwhile, male-to-female transgender athletes will need to demonstrate that their testosterone level has been below a certain cutoff point for at least one year before their first competition.

 

[kAmui-]

They can follow Olympics rules and simply do a testosterone check, under a certain level you're allowed to participate with girls/women. I don't think there are any restrictions on female-to-male athletes.

Is this actually how they do things? I never knew! Is it an effective way to determine whether or not you can compete with women?

Here's a more complete article about it since people in here don't seem to be aware of it. It's really not that complicated of an issue.

Thanks!

 

[GeordieMark]

The male/female sports distinction ought to be dissolved anyway.

I could see it working big for some sports, but male vs female boxing? No way.

 

[entremet]

As long as her hormone levels are within normal female ranges I see no problem with it.

Not that simple since pubescent males develop more muscle mass than pubescent females.

The hormone treatments don't catabolize all that added muscle. Not to mention bone density.

The only thing I can think of is if puberty was delayed.

It's tricky.

 

[Basileus777]

The male/female sports distinction ought to be dissolved anyway.

You want to kill off most female sports? No thank you.

 

[Einchy]

The male/female sports distinction ought to be dissolved anyway.

I would pay to see an NFL player play against a woman, I'm sure everything would go just fine.