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Transgender Teen (Male to Female) Wins 3rd Place in Race;Girls' Mothers Mad

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Trojita

Rapid Response Threadmaker
I did some more searching and found more information.

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2016/06/08/transgender-nattaphon-wangyot-alaska-track/

A transgender high school track athlete in Alaska made history – and created controversy – after competing in the girls’ state meet championships.

Anchorage CBS affiliate KTVA-TV reported that Nattaphon Wangyot of Haines High School qualified for the girls 1-2-3A 11-meter and 200-meter finals. The 18-year-old runner was born male and identifies as female.

Wangyot, who move from Thailand to Haines in 2014, told the Chilkat Valley News that she doesn’t have a competitive advantage over other girls because she takes female hormones and other drugs to suppress her body’s testosterone.

“The people who are going to think, ‘It’s not fair to play with the boys’ – well, you don’t know that. It’s not easy,” she told the Valley News. “It’s not like I was up and ‘OK, I’m a girl right now.’”


Saskia Harrison of Hutchison High School in Fairbanks, who missed the cut, didn’t think it was competitively fair that Wangyot competed on the girls side.

“I’m glad that this person is comfortable with who they are and they’re able to be happy in who they are, but I don’t think it’s competitively, completely 100 percent fair,” Harrison told KTVA.

Jim Minnery, president of the Alaska Family Action, protested along with a dozen others to Wangyot running.

“We are here today as a voice from the community to ensure that female athletes are not denied the playing opportunities and scholarships otherwise available to them and to make the playing field even again,” Minnery told the Alaska Dispatch News. “Allowing students to play on teams of the opposite sex disproportionately impacts female students, who will lose spots on a track, soccer and volleyball teams to male students who identify as female.”

KTVA reported the Alaska Schools Activities Association implemented a policy to allow school districts to decide if a transgender athlete can compete in a sport as the gender they identify with, and not their birth gender.

“We didn’t want to necessarily create a situation where we were going to bring in a committee and those types of things just because it’s just not practical here,” Billy Strickland, the association’s executive director, told KTVA.

Wangyot finished third in the 200-meter dash at 27.3 seconds and fifth in the 100 at 13.36 seconds in the Class 3A girls’ sprints.

Wangyot told Alaska Public Media that she’s trying to ignore the negative reactions she got to running in the girls’ state meet.

“Just be yourself. It’s your life,” she said. “Nobody can control that. We have freedom. Everybody can talk everything bad to you, but just ignore it. Sometimes it’s so hard to do that, but it’s gonna be cool and really good in the future of your life.”

Wangyot also played volleyball and basketball for Haines High School.

http://www.alaskapublic.org/2016/06/01/haines-transgender-teen-breaks-barriers-at-state-track-meet/

A Haines teenager was likely the first transgender student to compete at a statewide high school athletic competition. Nattaphon Wangyot was born male, but has identified as female since she was about five years old. Her participation in last weekend’s track meet in Anchorage drew a lot of attention, both positive and negative.

Wangyot goes by the nickname ‘Ice.’ Her mother, Tukta Panyawong, said the nickname comes from when she was pregnant with Ice, back in Thailand, and she used to chew on ice cubes.

Panyawong said the nickname fits, especially in the aftermath of the track meet. She says her daughter has been cool under pressure.



“You know, if some people say bad to you and you do bad to them, it’s not going to end easy,” Ice said. “So if they say bad to you, just smile at them and let it go
.”

There’s a lot Ice has to let go. She’s read comments from news stories about the track competition. Some are supportive and positive, but Ice says others are ‘hateful.’ But, she says, the hateful comments make her stronger.

“Some hateful people make me stronger and stronger,” Ice said. “So I want to say ‘thank you’ for everybody.”

It isn’t just online commentators who have a problem with Ice competing against other girls. On Friday, the conservative Christian group Alaska Family Action held a press conference.


“It is not fair and it is not right for our female athletes, and we have a responsibility to protect our girls,” said Stephanie Leigh Golmon Williams, as reported by KTVA.

The group said male-to-female transgender students have an advantage over biologically female athletes. Ice disagrees. She says she takes medication that suppresses male hormones and increases female hormones.

Alaska Family Action was protesting the Alaska School Activities Association’s recently adopted policy on transgender athletes. The policy lets local schools decide whether transgender students can compete according to the gender they identify with.

“The bigger gist of how this policy was developed is ASAA feels that schools are in the best position of dealing with individual students and know which individual students consistently identify with a different gender and can apply that better than we can, thousands of miles away from the actual student,” said ASAA director Billy Strickland.


“Yeah, we’re not gonna discriminate based on gender identity. That’s the just the long and the short of it,” said Haines School District Interim Superintendent Rich Carlson.


Ice moved to Haines from Thailand in 2014. But she didn’t start participating in sports until this year, her senior year. That kicked the district into action. The school board added gender identity to its non-discrimination policy and it updated administrative guidelines. Now the district’s stance is that transgender students can compete in sports according to the gender they consistently identify with.


When asked about Haines School District being a part of Alaska History, Ice responded, “We are. We are. I don’t think we ever set out to be that, but we are. And I feel pretty good about how we handled this.”

Carlson was expecting some push-back to Ice competing at the state track meet. But when he heard about the press conference protesting the transgender policy, Carlson got on a plane to Anchorage.

“I wanted to be there, frankly, to protect Ice,” Carlson said.


Ice said in all her races, her coaches tell her to ignore everything and just focus on running.


“You should focus on the track, what you gonna do right now,” Ice said. “Ignore how I’m hurt, how in pain. So I should focus on the running.”

Now, she’s trying to ignore the negative reactions to her involvement in the track meet and focus on the support she’s gotten. And she wants to share that message with people in similar situations.

“Just to be yourself. It’s your life,” Ice said. “Nobody can control that. We have freedom. Everybody can talk everything bad to you, but just ignore it. Sometimes it’s so hard to do that, but it’s gonna be cool and really good in the future of your life.”

Ice ended up placing in both the events she competed in. She won third place in the small schools’ women’s 200-meter sprint, and fifth place in the 100-meter race.

06012016_Ice-track-and-field_FILES.jpg


Good for Ice and that's a really nice Super Intendant.

My earlier suspicions were true. This all got stirred up by the Hate Group.
 
That sounds like a silly assumption to me.

Edit:eek:h boy why didn't I read your tag earlier. You're probably just trolling.

I get prodded to extend a lame Atlantis joke into a full thread that was obviously tongue in cheek and I'm forever tagged a troll. Fantastic.
 

Morrigan Stark

Arrogant Smirk
My earlier suspicions were true. This all got stirred up by the Hate Group.
Yeah, was there ever any doubt? Heh. It's one thing to show concerns for transgender participation in athletic fields in general, and what this group is doing, which is just bigotry.
 

FartOfWar

Banned
why can't some people just keep it 100 and say what they really mean is "HE is ~STEALING~ spots from REAL WOMEN" and stop tiptoeing around with their "i'm not ___ but" weasel words?
Because anyone who dares to disagree with you in any way is transphobic and they're terrified of being unmasked.
 
She's been on hormones for a while, she was approved by the school's athletic board. She had such an advantage that she finished 5th in one race.
 

MooMilk2929

Junior Member
Disclaimer: Im indifferent when it comes to transgendering. I think everyone should be treated with respect and accepted regardless




http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/jun/6/nattaphon-wangyot-transgender-student-riles-critic/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9vpRIqRXM0

Comments GAF. This does make me think of that argument between Evilore, and HolyBaikal that got her banned.

If Men are indeed generally physiologically stronger than females; how can this inevitable competing be resolved? Does DNA or Identity take precedent in Sports?

This reminds me of that scene in Scary movie where Miss mann says something about males entering female sports to gain an advantage over them.
 

Odrion

Banned
So if the Olympics has rules in place to solve the "fairness" dilemma and allow transgender participation why not just adopt those rules?
 

Zoe

Member
She's been on hormones for a while, she was approved by the school's athletic board. She had such an advantage that she finished 5th in one race.
At the state level that's pretty damn good for someone who has only been competing a year. There's no reason to keep downplaying that.

I suspect her advantage comes from her height though. She towers over everyone else at the start line.
 

Justified

Member
At the state level that's pretty damn good for someone who has only been competing a year. There's no reason to keep downplaying that.

I suspect her advantage comes from her height though. She towers over everyone else at the start line.

She actually did much better that that. I posted her record in the OP. 3rd and 5th place was in one meet. Overall she is a beast in the 200

But yea her advantage more than likely is due to her long legs, than anything else
 
With some of this happening in MMA, Joe Rogan has talked about it quite a bit on his podcast, or he used to. Haven't listened in awhile. HIs research boiled down to "men have a higher reaction time than women, and our hips help us pivot better. Our hands/bones are also bigger/thicker."

Most of that makes more of a difference in MMA though, so I dunno how it really applies here.

I'm mostly just happy to see trans people competing in sports at the high school level and basically being accepted. It's cool as shit.

On the other hand, scholarships come from sports, so I guess I get some of the annoyance. College be expensive.

The amount of vitriol I've seen about this whole thing--advantage or not--makes me sad though :(
 

someday

Banned
Good for Ice and that's a really nice Super Intendant.

My earlier suspicions were true. This all got stirred up by the Hate Group.

Jim Minnery, president of the Alaska Family Action, protested along with a dozen others to Wangyot running.
For some reason in America, the moment you see "Family" in the name of a group, they are a hate group. It's pretty amazing how backwards we are.
 
If she made the transition when she was five, the people who are upset really don't have much ground to stand on.

She's been on hormone replacement therapy since well before puberty would have kicked in.
 

Platy

Member

Please never come anywhere close to editing wikipedia

I did some more searching and found more information.

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2016/06/08/transgender-nattaphon-wangyot-alaska-track/



http://www.alaskapublic.org/2016/06/01/haines-transgender-teen-breaks-barriers-at-state-track-meet/



06012016_Ice-track-and-field_FILES.jpg


Good for Ice and that's a really nice Super Intendant.

My earlier suspicions were true. This all got stirred up by the Hate Group.

FINALLY a good article!

Thanks

If she made the transition when she was five, the people who are upset really don't have much ground to stand on.

She's been on hormone replacement therapy since well before puberty would have kicked in.

That is not how it works... hormonal therapy only starts on puberty. Before you don't need anything because boys and girls are basically the same

She should be allowed to compete but the other girls should get exosuits

Everyone in exosuits...she might have an advantage if her exosuit is a ... TRANSformer !


...OK I will see myself out
 

Future

Member
If the hormones "undoes" any of the natural male physical advantages then here is nothing to talk about. Except a Christian. Group's (the one making most of the fuss) sudden interest in sports when a transgendered person is involved
 

SaganIsGOAT

Junior Member
Isn't the transition going to literally only benefit transwomen when it comes to higher level competitive sports? I can't really see a transman attempting to join the NFL and not getting laid out.
 
Not all over the place.. The olympics are going down the same road. The spirit is largely the same. It was stated that "equalization" by way of HT hasn't been proven, so really, what's the difference? I take the Olympics requirement more as a way of weeding out potential competitors who might want to falsify their gender to get a "leg up."
Eh, more realistically if HRT wasn't required to compete in the Olympics, I think you'd see actual trans female athletes being pressured by eg parents or coaches to delay hormone therapy.
 

Justified

Member
If the hormones "undoes" any of the natural male physical advantages then here is nothing to talk about. Except a Christian. Group's (the one making most of the fuss) sudden interest in sports when a transgendered person is involved

Thats legitimate, but the discussion as a whole (not the argument the bigots are making) is; When it comes to sports how do you integrate Transgender in to Male/Female pseudo-segregated leagues?

Is it based off hormone level? If so what of those who identify but dont/cant utilize HRT?

Is it based on identity? If so if you cant use the generally accepted differences of sex (not gender) what do you use?

If its neither, is it a scientific fallacy that male, and females are generally different when it come to biology?

I absolutely think transgenders (Im talking across the board) should be able to compete. Its the how (systematically that is), not the why I personally dont have the answer to
 

Keri

Member
I think HRT has to be a requirement, if they're competing at a level that can result in real rewards (like college scholarships). Otherwise the physical advantages are too great and the transgender girl is nearly guaranteed to win (meaning that athletes born female will be foreclosed from winning, due to being born female). Enforcing this will be difficult though and I'm honestly not sure what the guidelines or recommendations are, for hormone replacement therapy for teenagers?
 

spwolf

Member
The easiest one is the Olympic press release

IOC rules transgender athletes can take part in Olympics without surgery



Or if you want to go really deep

Do Transgender Athletes Have an Unfair Advantage?



Should be noted that the NCAA source is SPECIFICALY about students

v8o30yQ.png

if so far the evidence shows that athletes that maintain needed hormonal level for at least a year, do not have any advantages, I dont see whats the problem.

If that changes with some new evidence coming to light, I am sure they will change the rules.

And also IOC suggestion is that they let people who have not reached hormone levels required are still left to compete with opposite sex. I dont see why would anyone complain about that realistically.
 
This is a tricky one. In this case, they are just kids so I wouldn't cause a fuss myself if my kid was a loser in this race. It's not exactly professional level so why upset people?

Not really comfortable taking sides in this overall argument because it's such a nuanced subject, but in this case it's important to remember this stuff doesn't happen in a vacuum. HS results will affect future professional chances and scouts will visit games etc.

Edit: oops I see the poster realized this.
 

AxelFoley

Member
She has a right to compete and win if she is able.

It's like when black people started gaining rights and began playing sports beating out a lot of white players for positions and awards. People will have to adjust and accept it.


I don't even know where to start with this.
 

Justified

Member
Then they compete? I don't really understand the question. A trans man who wants to compete will try to compete.


but the whole point of pseudo-segregate leagues (by Sex) is so those with physiological dis-advantages can compete with those in proximity of them (physiologically wise).

Or do you agree with the other poster? Get rid of sex/gender based leagues and let the best person win?
 

Kreed

Member

Your own quotes from these links, one of your links with absolutely no sources, and two of them are almost all sourcing the book " Taboo: Why Black Athletes Dominate Sports and Why We’re Afraid to Talk About It" which has it's own criticisms for completely excluding/writing off social and environmental factors in human development, are focused on black people of West African ancestry aka =/= all black people. Even taking your links as fact, they include statements such as:

This is uncontroversial and incontrovertible science even to anti-hereditarian ideologues. British biologist Steven Rose, one of the world’s most famous critics of biological determinism, recently wrote, “There are…probably genetic as well as environmental reasons why Ethiopians make good marathon runners whereas Nigerians on the whole do not.”

As I said in the post you quoted, and one of the big reasons I quoted Skii, is because Skii made statements like "every black person on average" and "They tend to have a higher concentration of fast twitch fibres as well as better bone development and centre of gravity for physical exertion.", they in this case being all black people, which is not the case for the entire black ethnic group.
 
I never said that. My point is that when it comes to high level athletic play it seems as if only one of the sexes transitioning will see benefits, not that they will transition for the benefits.

I don't grasp the relevance of this. I don't think trans men really have much of an issue with trans women having a greater athletic benefit to transitioning than trans men do. It stands to reason that in life, trans men and trans women have different privileges.
 

Pendas

Banned
Athletics never have been a level playing field. There's Always genetic advantages.

I hate when people say this. Do they even realize how much practice a professional athlete does in order to compete in their sport? It's not like they got off their couch one day and won a National Championship. You're looking at YEARS of training. Yes, some people may have a genetic advantage, but that advantage always comes with an insurmountable amount of hard word. Saying it's "genetics" is insulting to athletes.
 
I hate when people say this. Do they even realize how much practice a professional athlete does in order to compete in their sport? It's not like they got off their couch one day and won a National Championship. You're looking at YEARS of training. Yes, some people may have a genetic advantage, but that advantage always comes with an insurmountable amount of hard word. Saying it's "genetics" is insulting to athletes.

She also trained to compete. People are saying that there are always going to be people who, with a combination of genetic advantage, skill, and effort, will more often than not defeat someone of equal skill and effort with less genetic advantage.
 

Dead Man

Member
I hate when people say this. Do they even realize how much practice a professional athlete does in order to compete in their sport? It's not like they got off their couch one day and won a National Championship. You're looking at YEARS of training. Yes, some people may have a genetic advantage, but that advantage always comes with an insurmountable amount of hard word. Saying it's "genetics" is insulting to athletes.

The point is that all the training in the world will not allow someone te excel in a sport unless they have the genetic factors required for excellence. I could have trained from the age of 0 to my current 39 and still been hopelessly uncompetitive at it if I did not have the right body type and composition.

Edit: What LTTP said.
 
She also trained to compete. People are saying that there are always going to be people who, with a combination of genetic advantage, skill, and effort, will more often than not defeat someone of equal skill and effort with less genetic advantage.

Seriously. People are saying she has all of these "natural advantages", but if that's the case, shouldn't we also ban any AFAB girls who have those same advantages? I mean, if the big issue is some sort of innate genetic advantage, then fair's fair, right? "You must be no taller than 5'8" to compete in this race."

(And as others have pointed out, hormones VASTLY diminish any "advantage" a trans woman might have in the vast majority of competitive athletic situations, certainly within the range of normal variance for AFAB women.)
 

Future

Member
Seriously. People are saying she has all of these "natural advantages", but if that's the case, shouldn't we also ban any AFAB girls who have those same advantages? I mean, if the big issue is some sort of innate genetic advantage, then fair's fair, right? "You must be no taller than 5'8" to compete in this race."

(And as others have pointed out, hormones VASTLY diminish any "advantage" a trans woman might have in the vast majority of competitive athletic situations, certainly within the range of normal variance for AFAB women.)

I actually don't know what people are discussing if this is a fact. If hormones remove competitive advantage of male physical attributes, then a trans women should always be able to compete in the women's league. It's only if somehow you don't believe based on anecdotes of knowing men are stronger than women and knowing nothing of the science of hormone therapy
 

Infinite

Member
Your own quotes from these links, one of your links with absolutely no sources, and two of them are almost all sourcing the book " Taboo: Why Black Athletes Dominate Sports and Why We’re Afraid to Talk About It" which has it's own criticisms for completely excluding/writing off social and environmental factors in human development, are focused on black people of West African ancestry aka =/= all black people. Even taking your links as fact, they include statements such as:



As I said in the post you quoted, and one of the big reasons I quoted Skii, is because Skii made statements like "every black person on average" and "They tend to have a higher concentration of fast twitch fibres as well as better bone development and centre of gravity for physical exertion.", they in this case being all black people, which is not the case for the entire black ethnic group.

jesus fucking christ that that this is even an argument here
 
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