-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
UK General Election - 8th June 2017 |OT| - The Red Wedding
- Thread starter Jezbollah
- Start date
- Status
Huw_Dawson
Member
r/ukpolitics is a fun place.
"Nah man all those refugees Tim Farron wants mean more suicide bombers! They should f- off on their boats."
I post the and say "this is what is happening out there".
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-europe-migrants-rescue-casualties-idUSKBN18K19H
"OMG you virtue signaller, you're not lifting a finger yourself are you?!"
Fucking evil little shits.
"Nah man all those refugees Tim Farron wants mean more suicide bombers! They should f- off on their boats."
I post the and say "this is what is happening out there".
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-europe-migrants-rescue-casualties-idUSKBN18K19H
"OMG you virtue signaller, you're not lifting a finger yourself are you?!"
Fucking evil little shits.
Ravensmash
Member
Saw some stupid fucking post on Facebook earlier, where a guy from Sky News and someone else were just casually chatting about whether this would strengthen May.
It got spun by a left page about how it was evidence of a conspiracy by the mainstream media.
Heavens forbid that people in politics talk about politics on the side.
It got spun by a left page about how it was evidence of a conspiracy by the mainstream media.
Heavens forbid that people in politics talk about politics on the side.
Billy_Pilgrim
Member
The papers tomorrow are going heavy on the fact that security services and the home office were made aware of the bomber, repeatedly.
We've still got a few weeks to go before the election, once the panic starts to die down fingers will rightly be pointed at May's time at the home office.
We've still got a few weeks to go before the election, once the panic starts to die down fingers will rightly be pointed at May's time at the home office.
Edit2: all wrong, disregard
Thanks for the thorough explanation Huw! But I think there's one point that's wrong:
I think the floor was already going to be raised to 118k, so that increase isn't really a part of the new policy. I could be wrong of course, based on this: http://www.ageuk.org.uk/home-and-ca...ding-changes/care-cap-and-means-test-changes/ (last updated in January).
Edit: actually it's not quite that simple. The cap before you have to pay something is currently 14k, raising to 17k (rather than 23k raising to 118k which is the limit for "some support on a sliding scale").
Thanks for the thorough explanation Huw! But I think there's one point that's wrong:
(and of course it's the good news).
I think the floor was already going to be raised to 118k, so that increase isn't really a part of the new policy. I could be wrong of course, based on this: http://www.ageuk.org.uk/home-and-ca...ding-changes/care-cap-and-means-test-changes/ (last updated in January).
Edit: actually it's not quite that simple. The cap before you have to pay something is currently 14k, raising to 17k (rather than 23k raising to 118k which is the limit for "some support on a sliding scale").
Huw_Dawson
Member
That's the independent report that the Tories chucked out to make way for the current proposal.
Oh it sounded more definite than that. Nevermind then.
Huw_Dawson
Member
People naturally assumed that the proposal, which was derived by an independent cross-party panel, would go ahead. Everyone agreed on it.
Then May decided to have an election to entrench the Tories in power.
Then May decided to have an election to entrench the Tories in power.
Doctor_Thomas
Member
I think it's also worth pointing out that the home office was responsible for the NHS software that was left vulnerable, while May was at the home office.
I'm not going to say she's directly responsible for either, but if these things happened under her watch, it's concerning, especially with how out of her depth she seems to be in general.
Billy_Pilgrim
Member
There was a laundry list of sackable cock-ups during her tenure at the home office, but Cameron operated a loyalty policy.
hydrophilic attack
Member
attacking the government over a terrorist attack is not a good idea
first, it comes off as callous and playing politics with a tragedy
but as importantly, you can never prevent every terrorist attack from happening. attacking the government for not being able to stop a terrorist attack is intellectually dishonest imo
first, it comes off as callous and playing politics with a tragedy
but as importantly, you can never prevent every terrorist attack from happening. attacking the government for not being able to stop a terrorist attack is intellectually dishonest imo
I agree with this, but it could still play quite well for Labour. Corbyn will likely be asked a question on the topic at which point he can rightly say he's not going to play politics with this subject whilst talking generally about police and security funding cuts under May's home office "seeing as you asked".
Merkels biggest mistake still playing out all this time later. What a cluster fuck, traffickers making bank whilst their customers drown.
I wish that countries could have come together to set up supplied and policed camps for these people to go to.
Dirtyshubb
Member
If brought up that is the smartest thing to do.
I wasn't expecting such a backlash to the facts about his status being known so this could help make the tories look bad depending on how it plays out.
I think what's key is Corbyn has a great interview and manages to come off calm, collected and clear about the tory failures and how labour plan to do things differently. If he can manage that, the thought of being able to push the narrative that the tories are failures could be too much for the press to say no to.
Doctor_Thomas
Member
I don't think it's unfair to say that Theresa May, as home secretary, was responsible for budget cuts to policing. In fact, she was told in 2015, as home secretary, that removing pro-actice policing was dangerous, face to face. No one is saying it could have definitely been prevented, but May ultimately went ahead with the cuts to services and the budget which have resulted in reduced ground cover, which may have reduced the number of people willing to come forward because they didn't know who to speak to and, now, we're deploying the army to cover for the policing cuts that May herself imposed as home secretary. This isn't attacking the government over a terrorist attack because there's only one person or group responsible for that, it's attacking the government over policies that made and continues to make the job of the police more difficult, even without a terrorist attack.
The other parties have to be very careful when discussing police numbers that they don't conflate potential prevention of the attack, which effectively is blaming May for the deaths, with the real issue of relying on troops to cover policing duties in the aftermath.
I really hope this video gets a lot of airtime over the rest of the campaign.
May is directly responsible for the state of our policing today, and she should be held accountable.
Huw_Dawson
Member
UKIP's manifesto and Nuttall are pitching themselves as the anti-Islam party...
Huw_Dawson
Member
"The vast majority" of Muslims are OK, says Nuttall.
Well that's alright then.
Well that's alright then.
JonathanEx
Member
So this'll be interesting, May won't be about to out-UKIP UKIP this time, but I don't know how much it'll cut through. And of course Suzanne Evans isn't a person of class, so she'll ignore all rules of 'don't blame the attack on Theresa May for her decisions as home secretary'.
On the sad side, with many UKIP votes flipping to Tory, I had hoped for their vote share to collapse to a level that the BBC couldn't justify the level of coverage and their safe seat on the QT panel.
On the sad side, with many UKIP votes flipping to Tory, I had hoped for their vote share to collapse to a level that the BBC couldn't justify the level of coverage and their safe seat on the QT panel.
Huw_Dawson
Member
The hope is that this will pull UKIP votes back from the Tories and repulse absolutely any moderate that was considering voting for a UKIP-backed candidate.
If UKIP wants to make this debate about Islam, the Lib Dems are more than happy to step up and destroy their argument.
If UKIP wants to make this debate about Islam, the Lib Dems are more than happy to step up and destroy their argument.
JonathanEx
Member
Yeah but what about UKIP's own members
Just as expected.
Interesting that they're actively calling out homophobia as a way of getting around what their real issue is. I know someone who goes to UKIP LGBT meetups, never wanted to have a conversation with her for long enough to figure out what they talk about but I guess this is it.
OverBlood 3
Banned
This video is doing the rounds on twitter of a Manchester police officer warning May that cuts to community policing is putting people at risk from terrorism.
https://twitter.com/beardedgenius/status/867664282779090944
https://twitter.com/beardedgenius/status/867664282779090944
WhateverItTakes
Banned
Figured as much when they wanted to get their manifesto out ASAP after Monday.
Theonik
Member
Bad Habibis
so yeah.
http://uk.businessinsider.com/gover...tion-after-manchester-attack-2017-5?r=US&IR=T
i really wish this would stop happening. weakening the encryption methods used by tech companies will do nothing to reveal terror plots as they will just move to other methods (its not difficult to make an encrypted messaging app it could even just sit on top of a gmail account and send emails with encrypted content back and forth) all these kind of things do is make digital security compromised for me and you.
I've been shouting about this stuff for years now and May's movements towards this kind of legislation and its starting to reach a fever pitch due to the repeated propaganda after terror attacks like this.
It wont work. you have experts in industry shouting it. please listen!
http://uk.businessinsider.com/gover...tion-after-manchester-attack-2017-5?r=US&IR=T
i really wish this would stop happening. weakening the encryption methods used by tech companies will do nothing to reveal terror plots as they will just move to other methods (its not difficult to make an encrypted messaging app it could even just sit on top of a gmail account and send emails with encrypted content back and forth) all these kind of things do is make digital security compromised for me and you.
I've been shouting about this stuff for years now and May's movements towards this kind of legislation and its starting to reach a fever pitch due to the repeated propaganda after terror attacks like this.
It wont work. you have experts in industry shouting it. please listen!
We've been over this whole experts thing. We've had quite enough of them, thankyouverymuch.
I know Q.Q
Ties in with this clip from the same event: https://twitter.com/imajsaclaimant/status/867417136733581313?s=09 where Theresa May accuses the force of scaremongering and crying wolf.
I don't even know what to say. If this actually gets into the wider media...
PJV3
Member
It's pretty terrible if he's directly saying intelligence is drying up, she really will stick her head in the sand for party politics.
A bit worrying for future issues and events that might happen.
Yeah that was me. Congrats, you must feel great.
PJV3
Member
I don't think that's the point, it's the May myth that is the problem.
Huw_Dawson
Member
Things UKIP wants:
0. A bunch of nutcase fishing policies ("200 MILE FISHING ZONE!")
1. A cut to 0.2% international aid, scuppering a major block of our diplomatic and humanitarian activities.
2. An end the TV license fee - the BBC would be forced to move to a subscription model or advertising.
3. Huge increase in the inheritance tax threshold with a pledge to one day abolish all inheritance tax
4. "If we crash out onto WTO, all the trade tariffs we'll earn can be used for stuff!"
5. Launching a review into housing associations (presumably with a plan for abolition)
6. Anyone with an illness who wants to enter Britain has to prove they have "comprehensive medical insurance"
7. End sex education in primary schools
8. "A grammar school in every town"
9. A crackdown on university places based on future job prospects.
10. One-in-one-out migration, because leaving the EU wasn't already bad enough
11. Foreign people who want to marry a UK citizen will have to prove they're not doing it to get a visa
12. Migrants banned from accessing the NHS or any financial aid for five years.
13. As a knock-on of point six, British citizenship will be linked to you paying medical insurance for five years. You can presumably get kicked out if you do not pay medical insurance.
14. " we will test the social attitudes of migration applicants to foster community cohesion and protect core British values." Spun, naturally, as something to ensure we only have LGBT-friendly migrants. Absolutely not a proposal to ban anyone who has a faith we disagree with.
15. An end to multiculturalism.
16. Dog whistling on sharia courts as you'd expect.
17. An actual policy in the manifesto reads:
"UKIP will show zero tolerance to all these crimes and aim to eradicate them from our country. Bigots who shout racism or Islamophobia will not intimidate us. They legitimise the problem and demonstrate their ignorance. We are proud of our position. They need to get their moral compasses fixed."
"These crimes" are the already extremely illegal FGM and other forms of mutilation. UKIP are simply proposing stiffer laws. But good news - they're not afraid to be called islamophobic or racists!
18. A ban on the niqab and burka, because we're not afraid to be called islamophobic
19. Presented without comment:
20. An end to the European Arrest Warrant, because it should be hard for those accused of crimes abroad to be extradited (pretty much their own words)
21. Repeal of human rights legislation
22. Setting up a traveller pitch without a permit - i.e. being a traveller for all intents and purposes - made illegal.
23. "No foreign wars" - not even against ISIS, presumably...
24. Massive investment in the military
25. Make ex-military personnel immune from prosecution for anything they did in the military.
26. Build a big medical ship. Specifically it will have more than 500 beds. This replaces the 0.7% of GDP we spend on aid as an "ambassador" for Britain.
27. Presented without comment:
28. Backing the rights of polluting diesel owners.
29. Scrapping air passenger duty, because polluting airplanes are also not a problem
30. A mark on all cars driven into the UK from abroad - called a "Britdisk" so they can be picked out of a crowd. Apparently so they can be identified if they break the law.
31. Bailing out farmers screwed over by leaving CAP by paying them in a broadly identical scheme with British coin instead.
32. Repealing the Climate Change Act, building more fossil fuel power stations.
33. Scrapping green levies
34. Pro-fracking - but not in national parks or AoONB
Oh hey we're on to the democracy bit, this is usually the stuff I agree with UKIP on...
35. English parliament, replacing the HoL. Elected the Scottish way! No objections here...
36. Wait a minute, replacing the HoL, so national law only has to pass the HoC to become law, removing a critical level of scrutiny - essentially allowing the PM to do whatever they want if they have a HoC majority.
37. Halving the number of MPs in the HoC...
38. But electing them via PR. At least there is that.
39. Referenda on anything that is popular enough, allowing the HoC to be ignored.
Bonkers.
0. A bunch of nutcase fishing policies ("200 MILE FISHING ZONE!")
1. A cut to 0.2% international aid, scuppering a major block of our diplomatic and humanitarian activities.
2. An end the TV license fee - the BBC would be forced to move to a subscription model or advertising.
3. Huge increase in the inheritance tax threshold with a pledge to one day abolish all inheritance tax
4. "If we crash out onto WTO, all the trade tariffs we'll earn can be used for stuff!"
5. Launching a review into housing associations (presumably with a plan for abolition)
6. Anyone with an illness who wants to enter Britain has to prove they have "comprehensive medical insurance"
7. End sex education in primary schools
8. "A grammar school in every town"
9. A crackdown on university places based on future job prospects.
10. One-in-one-out migration, because leaving the EU wasn't already bad enough
11. Foreign people who want to marry a UK citizen will have to prove they're not doing it to get a visa
12. Migrants banned from accessing the NHS or any financial aid for five years.
13. As a knock-on of point six, British citizenship will be linked to you paying medical insurance for five years. You can presumably get kicked out if you do not pay medical insurance.
14. " we will test the social attitudes of migration applicants to foster community cohesion and protect core British values." Spun, naturally, as something to ensure we only have LGBT-friendly migrants. Absolutely not a proposal to ban anyone who has a faith we disagree with.
15. An end to multiculturalism.
16. Dog whistling on sharia courts as you'd expect.
17. An actual policy in the manifesto reads:
"UKIP will show zero tolerance to all these crimes and aim to eradicate them from our country. Bigots who shout racism or Islamophobia will not intimidate us. They legitimise the problem and demonstrate their ignorance. We are proud of our position. They need to get their moral compasses fixed."
"These crimes" are the already extremely illegal FGM and other forms of mutilation. UKIP are simply proposing stiffer laws. But good news - they're not afraid to be called islamophobic or racists!
18. A ban on the niqab and burka, because we're not afraid to be called islamophobic
19. Presented without comment:
We're not islamophobic or racist in ANY WAY guys said:
20. An end to the European Arrest Warrant, because it should be hard for those accused of crimes abroad to be extradited (pretty much their own words)
21. Repeal of human rights legislation
22. Setting up a traveller pitch without a permit - i.e. being a traveller for all intents and purposes - made illegal.
23. "No foreign wars" - not even against ISIS, presumably...
24. Massive investment in the military
25. Make ex-military personnel immune from prosecution for anything they did in the military.
26. Build a big medical ship. Specifically it will have more than 500 beds. This replaces the 0.7% of GDP we spend on aid as an "ambassador" for Britain.
27. Presented without comment:
Everythingisfine dot jpeg said:
28. Backing the rights of polluting diesel owners.
29. Scrapping air passenger duty, because polluting airplanes are also not a problem
30. A mark on all cars driven into the UK from abroad - called a "Britdisk" so they can be picked out of a crowd. Apparently so they can be identified if they break the law.
31. Bailing out farmers screwed over by leaving CAP by paying them in a broadly identical scheme with British coin instead.
32. Repealing the Climate Change Act, building more fossil fuel power stations.
33. Scrapping green levies
34. Pro-fracking - but not in national parks or AoONB
Oh hey we're on to the democracy bit, this is usually the stuff I agree with UKIP on...
35. English parliament, replacing the HoL. Elected the Scottish way! No objections here...
36. Wait a minute, replacing the HoL, so national law only has to pass the HoC to become law, removing a critical level of scrutiny - essentially allowing the PM to do whatever they want if they have a HoC majority.
37. Halving the number of MPs in the HoC...
38. But electing them via PR. At least there is that.
39. Referenda on anything that is popular enough, allowing the HoC to be ignored.
Bonkers.
Theonik
Member
You know, I refrained from personally naming you in this for a reason.
Yes. People seem to have this perception about the Conservatives being capable in government that often defies events and facts.
TM's tenure as home secretary has been notably lousy.
I wonder what it would take to break that myth.
PJV3
Member
If the floods a few years back are anything to go by it will take a fucking lot.
I mean yeah, it's UKIP. Now they have Brexit, they can move on to being the unvarnishedly racist party they always were, without pretence of decency.
Huw_Dawson
Member
You can read War and Peace between the lines:
1. Brexit is fine guys, there's absolutely no problems.
1a. Except for farmers who we are going to have to bail out.
2. We're not racist, guys
2a. We're going to force anyone who wants to come here to pay medical insurance, and mark their cars out with special icons
3. We're not islamophobic, guys
3a. Except when we're talking about sharia courts, veils and extremism, where it's totally fair to single out the muslim community because they've failed to integrate.
4. We're pro-environment, guys
4a. Except we don't believe in climate change
1. Brexit is fine guys, there's absolutely no problems.
1a. Except for farmers who we are going to have to bail out.
2. We're not racist, guys
2a. We're going to force anyone who wants to come here to pay medical insurance, and mark their cars out with special icons
3. We're not islamophobic, guys
3a. Except when we're talking about sharia courts, veils and extremism, where it's totally fair to single out the muslim community because they've failed to integrate.
4. We're pro-environment, guys
4a. Except we don't believe in climate change
Some interesting post-election reshuffle rumours from the FT finance correspondent:
Well placed Tory reshuffle speculation: Hammond "50 per cent" chance of staying in Treasury - could be replaced by Rudd, Green or Fallon.
And apparently the three Brexiteers - Fox, Boris, Davis - all pretty safe for now
Don't really want to get deep in to Kremlinology but ditching Hammond, replacing him with a loyalist and keeping the Brexiteers does feel like what May would do if she was expecting no EU deal and wanted to avoid a fuss when it came to that.
Well placed Tory reshuffle speculation: Hammond "50 per cent" chance of staying in Treasury - could be replaced by Rudd, Green or Fallon.
And apparently the three Brexiteers - Fox, Boris, Davis - all pretty safe for now
Don't really want to get deep in to Kremlinology but ditching Hammond, replacing him with a loyalist and keeping the Brexiteers does feel like what May would do if she was expecting no EU deal and wanted to avoid a fuss when it came to that.
BossDarkseid
Member
oh jesus / apathy.
Nothing would surprise me, short of the balls on May and Bravado or her team if they actually re-branded the Conservatives as THERESA MAY'S PARTY.
I'm quite worried that attacking the Tories on cuts to the police after a terrorist attack is going to backfire
Think we will still end up with a police force that is still too underfunded and understaffed to deal with general day to day crime, but given much more powers of surveillance, all in the name of "Anti-Terrorism"
Think we will still end up with a police force that is still too underfunded and understaffed to deal with general day to day crime, but given much more powers of surveillance, all in the name of "Anti-Terrorism"
- Status