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Vehicle plows into counter protesters in Charlottesville

M

Maebe

Member
PudieRSC said:
There's a difference between defending yourself or someone else from an actual attack and beating the shit out of a Nazi simply for being a Nazi. Which is what most of you guys seem to be ok with.
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"Simply for being a nazi"
You say that as if it were veganism
 
N

Not

Banned
Sony said:
I have no problem at all with the arrest of these people by authorities.
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That's what I'm saying. They're not getting arrested. Four white supremacists beat a black man with sticks less than a hundred yards from a police station. No arrests yet.

That's when decent people's minds turn to violence.
 
Sony

Sony

Nintendo
kmax said:
Nice strawman. Nazis group together and come out in marches. Since the police doesn't seem to be bothered to show up, they are free to roam the streets and attack people however they see fit, and you have the audacity and sit here and say that people don't have the right to defend themselves versus these pigs.

You should be concerned with why you are empathizing with nazis that have no problem with displaying violence instead of the very people that are victims of their hatred.
Click to expand...

I'm really starting to get angry at replies like this. Where the fuck did I say that you shouldn't defend yourself in case violence is committed against you? If these people free roam the Streets and attack people, then you're free to fight back in my opinion. Or do you think that I'm saying that you should crawl on the ground and say "make love, not war"?
 
S

sphagnum

Banned
Not said:
tumblr_inline_oktrnw7UcE1r8b64s_540.jpg
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Thank you, couldn't find it.
 
I

Impeccable

Member
Sony said:
I'm really starting to get angry at replies like this. Where the fuck did I say that you shouldn't defend yourself in case violence is committed against you? If these people free roam the Streets and attack people, then you're free to fight back in my opinion. Or do you think that I'm saying that you should crawl on the ground and say "make love, not war"?
Click to expand...

You literally said don't punch Nazis for being Nazis but are fine with punching ISIS for being ISIS.

Come on. You truly don't see it?
 
F

FunkyMunkey

Banned
"violence is never the answer" except in every conflict our species has ever been in where violence was the answer. what an incredibly naïve and short sighted hill to fight on, in a fucking thread about nazis ffs

digusting to defend the rights of racist terrorists whose sole puporse is to fucking eradicate other races, you fool
 
Sony

Sony

Nintendo
Audioboxer said:
You're probably better wording a post like this as "I myself wouldn't go out with a bat, knife or gun and aim to hunt down. I wouldn't do this as I'd lose my job, my family and probably face prison. If I didn't get killed in retaliation myself by the oppressors, or by the police/army coming in and disarming me by force.".

That's probably going to have people say okay, fair enough. Just dropping the "violence solves nothing" line with no context will just antagonise people like why you've been quoted 20x times in short succession. If the extremists were to start on mass, shooting, attacking and killing the police (or more like the army) would respond with lethal action which is... a form of violence! Sure, the aim is to try and have it not escalate to that, so that there isn't mass bloodshed (especially civilian on civilian bloodshed), but as I spoke about earlier America is currently failing to handle its problems with extremism via discourse, de-radicalising and state enforced action (arrests/confiscation/jail/community service/restrictions on liberties/watchlists/etc).

When a terrorist attack happens in the UK we don't have lots of people saying they'll be taking to the streets to attack/hurt others because civilian violence is the way forward. I mean if you said something with the intent to be violent on social media in the UK you'd probably have the police arrest you. What we do have though is a government who has radical watch lists, monitoring, arrests for extremist preaching/calls for violence and so on. All of that helps the public believe they are safe. Or at least it lets the public think the Government is at least making an effort to tackle extremism and to keep people safe.

So yeah, to me it can be a bit jarring when tens if not hundreds of posts across multiple topics are calling for civilian enforced violence. The UK isn't the US though, and a lot of unrest in America is happening because the Government is failing the people. Even our Conservative government as much as I criticize them does at least say a lot of the right things around terrorism, and you wouldn't be seeing neo-Nazis walking around with assault rifles in the UK. Ever. In America you currently are! A lot of people on forums are just blowing off steam too, and usually, it's quite clear to see when that is the case. As it's often quite clear too when people are talking about violence in general (lots of WW2 posts), rather than "I myself am going to be violent". Even in America with the later, you have to be careful as intent to cause harm/violence is just about the only thing not covered under the 1st amendment.
Click to expand...

Insightful posts, thank you.
 
S

siddx

Magnificent Eager Mighty Brilliantly Erect Registereduser
A lot of people had the same naive response in the 30's. "Violence isn't the answer, we must trust in the system, in this modern age the things these people advocate for could never happen, the police and army will keep us safe."

Then the government was purged and filled with nazis. One by one replacing reasonable men with loyal bigots. Then the authorities became nazis, filled with the same loyal bigots. Then the citizens filled with bigotry and hate looked around and listened to their politicians and felt righteous and justified in their bigotry. They stripped right after right away from the Jewish people, they became more brazen and aggressive. Citizens committed violent crimes against minorities and went unpunished.

And then they killed six million of my ancestors simply for being Jewish. And by the time the people realized they needed to fight back with violence it was too fucking late.
 
N

Not

Banned
Sony, America was ESTABLISHED to protect a certain racial pecking order. The cops won't subjugate white people fighting for their whiteness, no matter what they do. That applies to white people alone.

Us white people have to change the whole goddamn country. You think some of these faux-militia-ass motherfuckers will respond to a cordial dressing down?
 
D

drabnon

Member
Hey guys, coming in late to the thread and haven't read any responses yet. I just wanted some clarification on a point which may have been discussed. The Nazis/White Supremacists/KKK/whoever showed up to their "peaceful protest" armed, right? If they are carrying around weapons, shouldn't that immediately elicit a response from the police? I get that they have the right to bear arms, but I don't know, it seems to me like a group of people holding weapons is not assembling in a peaceful state of mind.
 
S

stryker1138

Member
Audioboxer said:
You're probably better wording a post like this as "I myself wouldn't go out with a bat, knife or gun and aim to hunt down. I wouldn't do this as I'd lose my job, my family and probably face prison. If I didn't get killed in retaliation myself by the oppressors, or by the police/army coming in and disarming me by force.".

That's probably going to have people say okay, fair enough. Just dropping the "violence solves nothing" line with no context will just antagonise people like why you've been quoted 20x times in short succession. If the extremists were to start on mass, shooting, attacking and killing the police (or more like the army) would respond with lethal action which is... a form of violence! Sure, the aim is to try and have it not escalate to that, so that there isn't mass bloodshed (especially civilian on civilian bloodshed), but as I spoke about earlier America is currently failing to handle its problems with extremism via discourse, de-radicalising and state enforced action (arrests/confiscation/jail/community service/restrictions on liberties/watchlists/etc).

When a terrorist attack happens in the UK we don't have lots of people saying they'll be taking to the streets to attack/hurt others because civilian violence is the way forward. I mean if you said something with the intent to be violent on social media in the UK you'd probably have the police arrest you. What we do have though is a government who has radical watch lists, monitoring, arrests for extremist preaching/calls for violence and so on. All of that helps the public believe they are safe. Or at least it lets the public think the Government is at least making an effort to tackle extremism and to keep people safe.

So yeah, to me it can be a bit jarring when tens if not hundreds of posts across multiple topics are calling for civilian enforced violence. The UK isn't the US though, and a lot of unrest in America is happening because the Government is failing the people. Even our Conservative government as much as I criticize them does at least say a lot of the right things around terrorism, and you wouldn't be seeing neo-Nazis walking around with assault rifles in the UK. Ever. In America you currently are! A lot of people on forums are just blowing off steam too, and usually, it's quite clear to see when that is the case. As it's often quite clear too when people are talking about violence in general (lots of WW2 posts), rather than "I myself am going to be violent". Even in America with the later, you have to be careful as intent to cause harm/violence is just about the only thing not covered under the 1st amendment.
Click to expand...

Thank you for this perspective.
 
D

Dark Cloud

Member
Sony said:
Sure I do, as ISIS have spoken out that they want to commit violence against the west. If an ISIS terrortist were walking around with a rifle, it wouldn't be unusused.
Click to expand...

....and Nazis and KKK have spoken to commit violence against others who are against them in our own US soil........
 
D

Dynasty

Member
Sony said:
I'm really starting to get angry at replies like this. Where the fuck did I say that you shouldn't defend yourself in case violence is committed against you? If these people free roam the Streets and attack people, then you're free to fight back in my opinion. Or do you think that I'm saying that you should crawl on the ground and say "make love, not war"?
Click to expand...

Your first post, "violence is never the answer" sort of implied you were condeming violence in this case. Maybe it wasnt your intentions but when you come in here and post, "violence is never the answer" with no elaboration and caveats as to what you are specifically taking about then people are going to assume stuff.
 
K

kmax

Member
Sony said:
I'm really starting to get angry at replies like this. Where the fuck did I say that you shouldn't defend yourself in case violence is committed against you? If these people free roam the Streets and attack people, then you're free to fight back in my opinion. Or do you think that I'm saying that you should crawl on the ground and say "make love, not war"?
Click to expand...

Boohoo. Nazism is a violent ideology. That is all they understand. You are basing your arguments and making up scenarios about people attacking them unprovoked as if it were that these violent Nazis were innocent, mellow folks just minding their own business. No one s going to take that argument seriously, because that is not what's going on right now. These scum are extremely violent and dangerous which they've demonstrated perfectly.
 
M

Mr. X

Member
Sony, please keep thinking US neo Nazis are not performing violent acts already and don't deserve violence towards them. US would really appreciate keeping the status quo.
 
T

The Kree

Banned
Sony

Sony

Nintendo
Mr. X said:
Sony, please keep thinking US neo Nazis are not performing violent acts already and don't deserve violence towards them. US would really appreciate keeping the status quo.
Click to expand...

I didn't say that nor do I think that. My initial post was too barebones but I will repeat: Nazi'ism is a violent ideology at its core and the people that perform violent acts deserve violence toward them. What I'm opposed to however is vigilantism in which people seek out Nazi's and attack them. If I walk on the street and a Nazi triest to assault me, I will try to defend myself and also attack him back. But I won't attack a Nazi if he doesn't attack me. He can verbally abuse me, shout racials slurs at me whatever, but if he doesn't touch me, I won't touch him.

Ignoring these people will contribute much more to the good case that attacking these people because then you'll give them even more reason to be violent.
 
T

the_korben

Member
Sony said:
You have no clue what you're talking about and it's disgusting that you bring up this point. The Nazi's during WW2 were attacked by the allied AFTER they started killing and violating human rights. There was every reason to kill the Nazi's.
Click to expand...

Erm, excuse me, but the first concentration camp was set up in 1933 to contain communists and socialists (they only political movements to actually call out and fight the fascists as early as this), homosexuals, artists, ... The Nazis built their whole repressive system right after taking power, step by step. The holocaust began in 1933, even if the industrial murdering machine only really got going in the 1940/41.

Had they not started the actual war in 1939, who knows for how long they could have continued with "violating human rights" until somebody stepped in? The fact that the Allies fought against them after 1939 has nothing (!) to do with human rights.
 
M

Mr. X

Member
Sony said:
I didn't say that nor do I think that. My initial post was too barebones but I will repeat: Nazi'ism is a violent ideology at its core and the people that perform violent acts deserve violence toward them. What I'm opposed to however is vigilantism in which people seek out Nazi's and attack them. If I walk on the street and a Nazi triest to assault me, I will try to defend myself and also attack him back. But I won't attack a Nazi if he doesn't attack me. He can verbally abuse me, shout racials slurs at me whatever, but if he doesn't touch me, I won't touch him.

Ignoring these people will contribute much more to the good case that attacking these people because then you'll give them even more reason to be violent.
Click to expand...
Ignoring does nothing but make them bolder. That's how we got here today.
Peaceful protests get you shot and run over.
 
D

Dark Cloud

Member
Sony said:
I didn't say that nor do I think that. My initial post was too barebones but I will repeat: Nazi'ism is a violent ideology at its core and the people that perform violent acts deserve violence toward them. What I'm opposed to however is vigilantism in which people seek out Nazi's and attack them. If I walk on the street and a Nazi triest to assault me, I will try to defend myself and also attack him back. But I won't attack a Nazi if he doesn't attack me. He can verbally abuse me, shout racials slurs at me whatever, but if he doesn't touch me, I won't touch him.

Ignoring these people will contribute much more to the good case that attacking these people because then you'll give them even more reason to be violent.
Click to expand...

I'm still waiting for your response, hypocrite.
 
B

BrutishMrFish

Member
Sony said:
Ignoring these people will contribute much more to the good case that attacking these people because then you'll give them even more reason to be violent.
Click to expand...

Ignoring them is what helped them get where they are today. And their excuse for being violent is exactly the same as it's always been because they have always thought white people as a whole are under attack in this country.
 
T

theignoramus

Member
B

BajiBoxer

Banned
Sony said:
I didn't say that nor do I think that. My initial post was too barebones but I will repeat: Nazi'ism is a violent ideology at its core and the people that perform violent acts deserve violence toward them. What I'm opposed to however is vigilantism in which people seek out Nazi's and attack them. If I walk on the street and a Nazi triest to assault me, I will try to defend myself and also attack him back. But I won't attack a Nazi if he doesn't attack me. He can verbally abuse me, shout racials slurs at me whatever, but if he doesn't touch me, I won't touch him.

Ignoring these people will contribute much more to the good case that attacking these people because then you'll give them even more reason to be violent.
Click to expand...

Ignoring them is kind of how it got to this point with white supremicists in the White House and law enforcement. It just doesn't work. Not saying vigilantes are the answer, but ignoring them was tried and failed multiple times. Ignoring them is very stupid.
 
N

Not

Banned
Sony said:
Ignoring these people will contribute much more to the good case that attacking these people because then you'll give them even more reason to be violent.
Click to expand...

God dude, read a fucking history textbook. You think everything about human nature has magically changed in the last few decades?
 
T

The Kree

Banned
It's not vigilantism. It's self defense.

Do not let these people tell you it's not self defense. It is. They want to perform ethnic cleansing. It's built into their ideology. You absolutely do not have to wait for it to start happening to defend yourself. Anybody who says you have to wait for the genocide to start is not your ally. There is no gray area here.
 
Sony

Sony

Nintendo
bananas said:
You seriously don't get it, do you?
Click to expand...

This is a discussion board. If you have no interest in discussion, then don't adress me.

Mr. X said:
Ignoring does nothing but make them bolder. That's how we got here today.
Peaceful protests get you shot and run over.
Click to expand...

That is tragic. Whoever commits crime should be punished. But if you feel that you should be the one to punish these people, be my guest. I won't attack people that don't try to attack me. Where do you draw the line?

Dark Cloud said:
I'm still waiting for your response, hypocrite.
Click to expand...

To what?
 
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